Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Can't nuke Vader's sperm donations if he didn't know about 'em.

Palpatine is more likely to capture the Skywalker kids so he can transfer his essence from his scrotum-faced, boiled cow hemorrhoid body into Luke or Leia's body so he can have a strong host vessel and he can finish Darth Plagueis' experiments. That, and he could finally get laid without paying up the ass for an "Imperial Consort."

 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghostse
Don't underestimate the Power of Big Daddy Sheev, if he wanted to he could have aborted the kids in the womb, with his penis.

Again, Darth Syphilis would probably use those kids as vessels for his spirit instead considering that his real face looks like a boiled cow hemorrhoid.

There is a quote I like from J. Michael Straczynski about Babylon 5*, when asked about the top speed of the human fighters:
"They move at the speed of plot" (and critically important to that, JMS never established fixed units of transit time, allowing this)

I'm pretty sure that a the equation that accurately expresses a Mandalorian's combat effectiveness against a force user is Log ( N * Plot )

Basically, yes, it is ultimately up to the story-writers whether or not a Mandalorian can kill a Jedi or vice-versa. But given how most authors in Lucasarts before Disney including Lucas LOVE the Jedi, it usually ends with the Jedi being stronger, faster, more effective. Only pro-Mandalorian authors would claim that the average Mandalorian could kill Jedi, everything else shows us that only the strongest Mandalorians can pull that off, and the rest get slaughtered by Jedi like sheep. (ie. Mandalorian Wars, SWTOR, Galidraan, etc.)
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: Adamska and Ghostse
Basically, yes, it is ultimately up to the story-writers whether or not a Mandalorian can kill a Jedi or vice-versa. But given how most authors in Lucasarts before Disney including Lucas LOVE the Jedi, it usually ends with the Jedi being stronger, faster, more effective. Only pro-Mandalorian authors would claim that the average Mandalorian could kill Jedi, everything else shows us that only the strongest Mandalorians can pull that off, and the rest get slaughtered by Jedi like sheep. (ie. Mandalorian Wars, SWTOR, Galidraan, etc.)

That was before the Mandalores discovered Beskar Steel, allowing them to craft Plot Armor.
 
Last edited:
Now that the Mando-sperg is back...
The Sith calling the kettle black. 😏

And I've gotta say, Jango Fett is one horrible Mandalore, and the Jedi were not to blame at all.
Pretty much. Jango let his obsession with avenging Jaster's assassination override everything else, leading to a string of really, really bad decisions. There are quite a few instances where he's called out on this in Traviss's books.

The end where Dooku and Jango both blame the Jedi as a whole for what happened at Galidraan that led to the destruction of the True Mandalorians felt rather hollow to me, since in the comic's depiction of the Battle of Galidraan, BOTH MEN were responsible for getting the True Mandalorians killed. Dooku deployed his Jedi with lightsabers blazing, and Jango ordered his men to fire at the Jedi.
Try to understand that just because characters say things in a given story, these things are necessarily objectively true in-universe. In the better works of fiction, they will be colored by their character's personal biases and (if relevant) lack of 100% accurate information regarding the circumstances of which they speak.

Jango chose to engage an enemy that were more than a match for his men.
When outnumbered, encamped, and not arrayed for battle. 😉

And, apparently, since we're not waiting to take turns anymore...

Basically, like another work from Haden Blackman's stuff, this comic doesn't have the best portrayal of their characters.
Portraying characters at less than their best doesn't mean the portrayals are unfaithful.

Force Unleashed wasn't Vader's best portrayal as a character despite it displaying his powers faithfully...
You really need to stop obsessing over power levels.

I judged Lucas based on his actions.
No, you don't. You have an imagined idea of Lucas's actions, but it's missing a great deal of important points, most notably the fact that Lucas concludes the Star Wars saga by having Luke very politely tell Yoda and Obi-Wan, the last living embodiments of the Prequel Jedi, to go stick their non-attachment dogma where the sun don't shine, and then vindicates Luke's doing so.

And the man is a Jedi shill, as if all his shilling of Jedi merchandise and Jedi expanded universe content is any indication.
I wouldn't use that argument. Lucas is simultaneously an idealist and a hawk-eyed businessman, and indications are that Boba Fett/Mandalorian toys sell as well or better than their plastic Jedi counterparts.

Every time he gets involved in the project (Force Unleashed, Dark Empire) the Jedi are the clear good guys and everyone who goes up against them is an evil poopie-head.
That doesn't mean that the Jedi are always depicted as making the right decisions, unless you want to argue that Obi-Wan's deceiving Luke about his relation to Vader and then trying to egg him on to patricide is/was 100% (and the text of the film itself denies such a reading).

Like how he keeps depicting the Mandalorians as wannabe Jedi-killers who keep LOSING to the Jedi, be it in the films, where only one Jedi died to a Mandalorian surprise attack whereas both Mandalorians got killed easily by focused opponents
Actually killing a Jedi High Council Master hardly makes Jango a "wannabe Jedi-killer." 😂

And remember, from George Lucas's POV it's perfectly reasonable for Boba Fett to kill Mace Windu. 😎

...in the TCW cartoon...the leader of the Mandos failed horribly at fighting Jedi OR Sith, even when said Jedi or Sith holds back.
We don't know exactly how much input Lucas had, and in any case, Vizsla hardly "failed horribly." He fought against both Maul and Obi-Wan on relatively even terms and only turned in a poor showing against Filoni's orange waifu.

Also going by TCW, one random Mandalorian soldier can apparently give a Jedi Master a very hard time, and two can easily take one down in close combat.

Also, the Jedi are blameless for the clones... Anyone who cares about the clones would rather have Jedi leading them than have increased casualties and suicide rates be forced upon them.
That's exactly what Palpatine would want the Jedi to think.

Also, I've already said before that the odd Mandalorian is capable of killing Jedi or Sith now and then. After all, I kept talking about how Canderous was gutting Sith for the glory of Revan and all that. But here's the thing: the Mandalorians who kill Jedi are usually the top of their class, the equivalent of valedictorians. Whereas Jedi usually kill Mandos all the time, every time the two groups fight. And whenever the Jedi approach the Mandalorians with killing intent, as they did in the Mandalorian Wars and the Battle of Galidraan, the Mandalorians get slaughtered like pigs before a barbecue.
Logic weighs against that, particularly in the Mandalorian War, where the Knights of the Old Republic shows that the Mandalorians have relatively little trouble subduing Jedi (the fact that they're generally much more heavily-armored than their latter-day "Supercommando" descendants probably helps).

RCO020_1462451081.jpg


Note also that The Hunter, TORtanic's Mandalorian representative player-character for the Bounty Hunter class doesn't just kill Force-users "now and then," he tears a bloody path through the Jedi Order, "slaughter[ing] countless Jedi Knights and Masters" along the way including multiple Jedi kill-teams sent specifically to assassinate him, and ultimately Jedi Master Jun Serros, the Order's then-Battlemaster, which is to say that the Mandalorian PC kills his timeline's version of Kyle Katarn.

Bonus points: The Hunter's original mentor, who was just a random bounty-man, killed TORtanic's version of Yoda, Grand Master Zym, with a Mandalorian-style wrist-rocket. Not for nothing does the official TORtanic bio of the Bounty Hunter class note that such individuals are known as "Jedi Killers," apparently.

Way to put words in my mouth, pal.
There's no difference to the distinction that you're trying to claim. You say that you credit "the odd Mandalorian" with being able to take down Jedi/Sith, but you load that supposed admission down with caveats like "now and again," "Jedi usually kill Mandos all the time," "wannabe Jedi-killers" and "surprise attack." It's nothing but damning with faint praise, from you.

It's clear that everyone wants you to use spoiler tags not because of a debate with me, but because your sperging takes way too much space, even when it's not directed at me.
False assumption.

According to the criteria of everyone else here who isn't a Mando super-fan.
You're not paying attention, junior. We have people in-thread complaining about Boba Fett/the Mandalorians having fans at all. As in "a bunch of idiots like Boba Fett for some reason."

I mean, fuck, I grew up liking Jango Fett and Canderous Ordo and the Mandalorians, and even I think you're taking it too far.
Going by your statements here, you like Canderous and co. simply because they talk about how awesome Revan/the Jedi are.

Days later they are still dick waving.
Hey, Saint Vader is the one arguing that his preferred faction are "superior beings." I just want it acknowledged that the average Mando has a reasonable shot of taking down the average Jedi/Sith. 😉

Big Daddy Sheev had a point, he just fucked up in blowing up Alderaan instead of Mandalor, and should have fucking finished the job and had someone Order 66 Vader and his kids.
According to the old EU, Mandalore was occupied by the Empire at the time and apparently considered pacified, unlike Alderaan which was one of the leading backers of the Rebellion.

That was before the Mandores discovered Beskar Steel, allowing them to craft Plot Armor.
Mandalorian Iron (to use the Basic name for the metal) actually goes back to Kevin Anderson, ironically enough.
 
Last edited:
  • Autistic
Reactions: Cactuar King
I'm pretty sure, being that the Mandalorians have been described as Super Commandos, is that Mandalorians are meant to be viewed as commandos.

When able to choose their targets and having the element of surprise, WWII British commandos could inflict ridiculously lopsided causalities on axis forces. When their commanders were complete idiots and tried to use them like line infantry, things went decidedly less well for the commandos who while fighting like madmen, just simply weren't able to bring their best weapons to the fight and thus deprived were at extreme disadvantage.

Now, sure this comparing normies-to-normies, but I'd argue the same principals apply: If you are a trained super soldier able to get the jump on a Jedi in a time and place where you control the field, you've got good odds of coming out ahead. Toe-to-toe in an empty room where the Jedi knows its a fight, its not even a question.

AFAIK that's the point. Its not that the average Mandalorian is incapable of taking out a jedi, its that the average Mandalorian would not be able to get a Jedi at the disadvantage/provide themselves the advantages required to triumph over a space wizard. And the primary reason of that is because that sort of power asymmetry best services an interesting plot.


Mandalorian Iron (to use the Basic name for the metal) actually goes back to Kevin Anderson, ironically enough.

I'm not sure there is a disapproving Rainier Wolfcastle jpeg big enough.
 
I'm pretty sure, being that the Mandalorians have been described as Super Commandos, is that Mandalorians are meant to be viewed as commandos.

When able to choose their targets and having the element of surprise, WWII British commandos could inflict ridiculously lopsided causalities on axis forces. When their commanders were complete idiots and tried to use them like line infantry, things went decidedly less well for the commandos who while fighting like madmen, just simply weren't able to bring their best weapons to the fight and thus deprived were at extreme disadvantage.
And their numbers (212 in the original Marvel comics) and equipment (which appears optimized towards defending primarily against ranged small arms) tend to reflect this.

AFAIK that's the point. Its not that the average Mandalorian is incapable of taking out a jedi, its that the average Mandalorian would not be able to get a Jedi at the disadvantage/provide themselves the advantages required to triumph over a space wizard. And the primary reason of that is because that sort of power asymmetry best services an interesting plot.
Damages it, rather. There's not much interest to be had if the wizard is never imperiled in any way by the muggle.

I'm not sure there is a disapproving Rainier Wolfcastle jpeg big enough.
LOL
 
Damages it, rather. There's not much interest to be had if the wizard is never imperiled in any way by the muggle.

He is imperiled, but not by any sort of blaster or hanzo beskar steel, he is imperiled by the Mandalorian's true weapon, which is his mind. Even if it just being involve in a pitched battle and just waiting for an opening to take his shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Admiral Mantoid
He is imperiled, but not by any sort of blaster or hanzo beskar steel, he is imperiled by the Mandalorian's true weapon, which is his mind. Even if it just being involve in a pitched battle and just waiting for an opening to take his shot.
Well, remember that while the Force is "a powerful ally" it's not a one-size-fits-all, get-out-of-jail-free card. Lucas's films are replete with examples of Jedi and Sith falling prey to a sort of tunnel vision when using their powers, or even just straight-up being taken by surprise.
 
That was before the Mandores discovered Beskar Steel, allowing them to craft Plot Armor.

Even with Beskar Steel, Open Seasons depicted Mandalorians getting killed all the time. Even by common enemies with blaster fire. And they had Beskar by the bucketloads during the Mandalorian Wars, didn't help them one bit when Jedi wash-outs and renegades joined the Republic and wiped them out.

The Sith calling the kettle black. 😏

Pretty much. Jango let his obsession with avenging Jaster's assassination override everything else, leading to a string of really, really bad decisions. There are quite a few instances where he's called out on this in Traviss's books.

Try to understand that just because characters say things in a given story, these things are necessarily objectively true in-universe. In the better works of fiction, they will be colored by their character's personal biases and (if relevant) lack of 100% accurate information regarding the circumstances of which they speak.

When outnumbered, encamped, and not arrayed for battle. 😉

And, apparently, since we're not waiting to take turns anymore...

Portraying characters at less than their best doesn't mean the portrayals are unfaithful.

You really need to stop obsessing over power levels.

No, you don't. You have an imagined idea of Lucas's actions, but it's missing a great deal of important points, most notably the fact that Lucas concludes the Star Wars saga by having Luke very politely tell Yoda and Obi-Wan, the last living embodiments of the Prequel Jedi, to go stick their non-attachment dogma where the sun don't shine, and then vindicates Luke's doing so.

I wouldn't use that argument. Lucas is simultaneously an idealist and a hawk-eyed businessman, and indications are that Boba Fett/Mandalorian toys sell as well or better than their plastic Jedi counterparts.

That doesn't mean that the Jedi are always depicted as making the right decisions, unless you want to argue that Obi-Wan's deceiving Luke about his relation to Vader and then trying to egg him on to patricide is/was 100% (and the text of the film itself denies such a reading).

Actually killing a Jedi High Council Master hardly makes Jango a "wannabe Jedi-killer." 😂

And remember, from George Lucas's POV it's perfectly reasonable for Boba Fett to kill Mace Windu. 😎

We don't know exactly how much input Lucas had

That's exactly what Palpatine would want the Jedi to think.

Logic weighs against that, particularly in the Mandalorian War, where the Knights of the Old Republic shows that the Mandalorians have relatively little trouble subduing Jedi (the fact that they're generally much more heavily-armored than their latter-day "Supercommando" descendants probably helps).

View attachment 1528091

Note also that The Hunter, TORtanic's Mandalorian representative player-character for the Bounty Hunter class doesn't just kill Force-users "now and then," he tears a bloody path through the Jedi Order as a whole, "slaughter[ing] countless Jedi Knights and Masters" along the way including multiple Jedi kill-teams sent specifically to assassinate him, and ultimately Jedi Master Jun Serros, the Order's then-Battlemaster, which is to say that the Mandalorian PC kills his timeline's version of Kyle Katarn.

Bonus points: The Hunter's original mentor, who was just a random bounty-man, killed TORtanic's version of Yoda, Grand Master Zym, with a Mandalorian-style wrist-rocket. Not for nothing does the official TORtanic bio of the Bounty Hunter class note that such individuals are known as "Jedi Killers," apparently.

There's no difference to the distinction that you're trying to claim. You say that you credit "the odd Mandalorian" with being able to take down Jedi/Sith, but you load that supposed admission down with caveats like "now and again," "Jedi usually kill Mandos all the time," "wannabe Jedi-killers" and "surprise attack." It's nothing but damning with faint praise, from you.

False assumption.

You're not paying attention, junior. We have people in-thread complaining about Boba Fett/the Mandalorians having fans at all. As in "a bunch of idiots like Boba Fett for some reason."

Going by your statements here, you like Canderous and co. simply because they talk about how awesome Revan/the Jedi are.

According to the old EU, Mandalore was occupied by the Empire at the time and apparently considered pacified, unlike Alderaan which was one of the leading backers of the Rebellion.

Mandalorian Iron (to use the Basic name for the metal) actually goes back to Kevin Anderson, ironically enough.

Again, that makes Jango's decision to engage the Jedi even more foolish. They're not prepared to fight the Jedi. They just got done fighting Galidraan insurrectionists. And yet he keeps blaming the Jedi for the deaths of his men when he killed them by siccing them on the Jedi. Montross is very much correct. Jango was a better character in the Bounty Hunter game, where he was cynical, but smart, and he comes up with plans on how to crack open the Bando Gora case and get that sweet 5 million credits from Dooku.

As I said, Haden Blackman's work has the tendency to focus on how badass characters like Vader and Jango Fett are, while making them drop the idiot ball more than once. His script for the Force Unleashed, which George Lucas encouraged and used as a bridge between Episodes 3 and 4, has Vader as a Force-powered badass who is practically a walking tornado of pain and suffering, but character-wise, he's some kind of wishy-washy guy who supposedly lies to the Emperor but then lies to his apprentice and betrays them, ostensibly to force Starkiller to be a Jedi and make him fight both Vader and the Emperor, even though logically, Vader could have and SHOULD HAVE totally used Starkiller to kill the Emperor and take his throne. In the same vein, Jango's the kind of badass who kills Jedi with bare hands, but he's kind of an idiot as a war leader and a Mandalore, repeating Jaster's mistake and siccing his men on targets that can totally wreck them. Which contradicts his portrayal in EPII and the Bounty Hunter game as a more rational, cynical man who won't stick his neck out if it's too much trouble, not the kind of guy who would order his men to open fire at a ship's worth of Jedi Knights.

Not unfaithful per se, but still, kind of damages the character. People's perceptions of Vader and Jango Fett as calculating, clever warriors were damaged by the Force Unleashed and Open Seasons, even though those works portray them at their most badass in combat. Other works like Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader and the Bounty Hunter game do a better job of portraying Vader and Fett as characters.

Power levels denote which character wins the fight. Heck, even Lucas obsessed over power levels, which is why Luke and Anakin were important, since if they were fully trained, they could wipe out just about anyone, something Luke eventually gets to in the EU.

"Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen this." -Darth Vader, Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
"Soon Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!" -Darth Sidious speaking to Yoda, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith

Er, no. Lucas portrayed the Prequel Jedi as correct about emotional attachments, down to the point where he made Anakin Skywalker unsympathetic when compared to the likes of say, Kenobi or Yoda. The only thing they were wrong about was whether or not Vader could be saved, and Jedi dogma says that all life is precious and that every soul deserves the right to be redeemed, even those of Sith Lords like Vader and Revan. If anything, Luke was more loyal to Jedi dogma than Yoda and Kenobi were, especially since the two were willing to forgo Jedi dogma to turn Luke into a magic hitman to kill the Sith instead. That, and if he wanted to portray the Jedi as gray, he'd have said as much in his many, many interviews. Instead, he keeps portraying the Jedi as good, and he approved of a mountain of works where the Jedi are undeniably the good guys. His input in the EU, mostly the Force Unleashed game he made with Haden Blackman and the Dark Empire comic that Tom Veitch spearheaded, portrayed the Jedi as good and everyone who opposed them as the bad guys. There was no grey with Lucas outside of EPVI, and that's because in that movie, Luke believed more in the Jedi dogmas than Yoda and Kenobi did.

Er, no. Jedi toys sold as well, if not better than, their Mandalorian counterparts. Especially when the kids know nothing much about Mandalorians except what the movies portray, and the movies portrayed them as people who get killed by Jedi and blind men. It's the adult fans who see the potential in the Fetts and who read all the comics and novels who are Mandalorian fans. Kiddie Star Wars fans are more likely to gravitate towards Luke, Kenobi, or Ahsoka Tano. Yes, Filoni's orange waifu is now more popular than the Mandalorians among the kids, even after a show came out that was specifically about the Mandos. Down to the point where there's talks that indicate she will show up in said Mandalorian show.

I already talked about how Lucas portrayed the Jedi as more grey in the Original Trilogy than the Prequels. In the OT, they lied to Luke, but were portrayed to have good reasons behind it, with Luke not holding grudges and only complaining about it somewhat meekly. In the Prequels, they're Captain America with psychic powers and laser swords. The Prequels were a Jedi power fantasy where they cut down droids like logs so they don't have to feel guilty about killing live men, and they only cut down the clones after the clones coldly betrayed them so that's OK in the audience's eyes too. That, and the Separatists who were fighting the Jedi were portrayed by the films as money-hungry war-profiteers, which justifies the use of a massive clone army to put a blaster bolt in their collective bottoms. NOT ONE CHARACTER in the film questioned the use of a slave army, and Order 66 would have never happened had Anakin and his daddy issues never gotten in the way.

Jango only caught said Jedi Council member by surprise. If he was face-to-face with a Jedi, he would have lost, which he did. And again, the fight between Mace and Sidious was staged already, so Mace would have been killed by Fett AFTER he defeated Sidious, when he's tired and exhausted. And of course, Lucas changed his mind and had Anakin deal the crucial blow, which means not even Lucas stuck with the idea that Boba could kill Mace. Again, CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT. Which goes to prove EPII's thesis, that in Lucas' view, if a Jedi and a Mandalorian are in a fair fight, the Mando loses. Heck, in the OT, Boba loses to a blind man with a stick, not even a Jedi. Which is rather unflattering when it comes to portraying Mandalorians. For all your talk of how Lucas' will is against the Jedi, what happened in Lucas' films goes to show his rather unflattering view on the Mandalorians, where not even Jedi, but blind men, could defeat Mandalorians in a rather humiliating fashion. The Expanded Universe had to go on overdrive to show the Mandos COULD be a threat to Jedi, and even then, the Mandos get massacred half the time when they don't have powerful backers like the Sith Empire.

We don't have much knowledge on Lucas' input. But we do know that he had input on the show, especially when Dave Filoni couldn't write a show at the same level as TCW without Lucas. However, Lucas had zero input on the novels and comics which portray the Mandalorians in a positive light, since his portrayals of them in the films denote that A) that they're greedy assholes who work for money, and B) they get killed like scrubs when the enemy knows they're there and isn't distracted by something else.

Regardless of Palpatine's thoughts, the Jedi were still in the right on the clones. Especially when the only alternative to the clones, especially since Jango and his people already indoctrinated them to be loyal to the Republic, would be to have the clones be led by guys like Tarkin and other "favorites" of Palpatine, guys who wouldn't blink at massive casualties and PTSD caused by committing war crimes.

Except the Jedi who were captured were students in the Order. Also, the guy in charge of capturing them was Demagol, a close associate of Mandalore, who would have access to more elite Mandalorian troops. Also, in the very same comic, Zayne Carrick has no problems fighting off Mandalorians and even defeating them, even though he's a wash-out padawan who's practically nothing when compared to a real Jedi like Revan.

Also, the Bounty Hunter character in TOR is portrayed as being far better than most Mandalorians. The Hunter defeats Tarro Blood's Mandalorian comrades, makes the Mandalorians in Dromund Kaas look like a joke by killing a powerful monster that the Mandalorian clans have failed to kill, and the Hunter is also Mandalore's representative among the Grand Champions of the Great Hunt. The Hunter can also REFUSE to become Mandalorian, which is a logical choice considering that Mandalore doesn't protect the Hunter when the Jedi and the Republic slander them, and several Mandalorians have caused enough problems for the Hunter during the Great Hunt. Face it, the Hunter isn't strong because they're Mandalorian, the Mandalorians wanted them to join because the Hunter is strong.

Zym wasn't that strong to begin with. Later, Braden was held hostage by another Jedi named Orgus Din, the Jedi Knight's master. If another Jedi can get to the point where Braden's neck can be bisected with a lightsaber, it goes to show that neither he nor his targets were that strong to begin with.

Plus, again, SWTOR has no shortage of Jedi killing Mandalorians. Aside from the Jedi player characters who wind up fighting the Mandalorians and piling body after body of them in the campaigns and expansions, Jedi such as Kellian Jarro and Corin Tok have made a sport of killing Mandalorians, with the former becoming the "Mandalorian Killer" and the latter being known as "Verda'Jedi" by the Mandos. Neither one was killed by a Mandalorian warrior from the clans, falling to either the Hunter in the case of Kellian Jarro, or some Sith/Imperial in Corin Tok's case.

But that's the point. The stronger Mandalorians kill Jedi now and then and cause problems for them, but when the Jedi go on Total War mode against the Mandos, the Mandos start losing. HORRIBLY. To the point where in both wars they had with the Jedi, that being Galidraan and the Mandalorian Wars, the Mandalorians wind up nearly extinct. The Jedi Order still had enough Jedi after the Mandalorian Wars to wage a Jedi Civil War, whereas by that time, the Mandos were so scattered and weak that when a new Mandalore turns up, other Mandalorians note that some swoop biker could have bought a helmet and made such a claim, or even tried to kill said Mandalore to take his helmet. And after Galidraan, the True Mandalorians get driven to extinction so hard that the following Mandalorian conflict had to be between their rivals in the Death Watch, and some hippie pacifist group.

Not a false assumption when people want you to put spoiler tags.

Which is accurate considering that most people who only watched the films think both Fetts are a joke. I respect the Fetts, but basically, that's because I'm a turbo-nerd who read comics and novels and played the games where the Mandalorians actually stood a FRACTION of a chance against Jedi.

Try playing the Mygeeto map in classic Battlefront II as the Empire against another player. The heroes are Boba Fett (Empire) and Luke Skywalker (Rebels). Fett has a decent chance to kill Luke if he's controlled by CPU since all the CPU knows how to do is melee and lightsaber throw, but a human player controlling Luke who spams Force Push against Fett would win every time.

No, I like Canderous because he guts Sith warriors for the glory of Revan. He's the one Mandalorian I know of who can actually win half the time against Sith who use the Force as a weapon. Quite literally, he can fight Traviss' Mandalorians and rip them to shreds in melee, considering that the dude killed lightsaber-wielding Sith for a living under Revan's command.
 
Last edited:
Even with Beskar Steel, Open Seasons depicted Mandalorians getting killed all the time. Even by common enemies with blaster fire. And they had Beskar by the bucketloads during the Mandalorian Wars, didn't help them one bit when Jedi wash-outs and renegades joined the Republic and wiped them out.

And that's a disapproving Ranier Wolfcastle to you too.
 
And that's a disapproving Ranier Wolfcastle to you too.

My point exactly. In fact, the new stuff has more respect for Beskar, since Rebels and the Mandalorian show explicitly depicted beskar absorbing blaster bolts. Whereas in Open Seasons, Mandalorians get gunned down by blasters all the time, which puzzled me when I read it.

I suppose beskar isn't necessarily lightsaber-proof or blaster-proof, just somewhat resistant to it, if the comics are any indication.
 
Last edited:
My point exactly. In fact, the new stuff has more respect for Beskar, since Rebels and the Mandalorian show explicitly depicted beskar absorbing blaster bolts. Whereas in Open Seasons, Mandalorians get gunned down by blasters all the time, which puzzled me when I read it.

I suppose beskar isn't necessarily lightsaber-proof or blaster-proof, just somewhat resistant to it, if the comics are any indication.

I don’t think the Mandos regularly wore it until Traviss came along and wanted to give her pet faction an edge.
 
I don’t think the Mandos regularly wore it until Traviss came along and wanted to give her pet faction an edge.

Even back in the KOTOR era, they had beskar armor far superior to regular armor. They still got killed by lightsabers and blasters, though. Troopers and Jedi just had to try harder.

I hear the Empire is helping to maintain order during his absence. So no need to worry. They're getting the full ewok carpet treatment.
View attachment 1528385

The Empire is the real warrior faction of Star Wars. The Mandalorians dreamed of defeating the Jedi, the Empire accomplished it. The Mandalorians dreamed of taking over the galaxy, the Empire did it. And even in the Legacy Era, they're the strongest faction left. Down to the point where even Jedi simp for them by that time.
 
Last edited:
I'll look at refuting the rest of @LORD IMPERATOR's arguments sometime tomorrow, but before I shut down for the night, I'd like to share the results of some research I did into Lucas's on-record statements concerning the ethics of the Clone Wars re: the Jedi Order. From a May, 2005 E! Behind the Scenes segment:


Transcript of relevant comments is as follows:

Lucas: "The Jedi are always sort of fighting this reality of the fact that they're, in essence, diplomats. They sort of persuade people to do the right thing, but their job really isn't to go around fighting people. Uh, yet they're now used as generals and they're fighting in a war and they're doing something they... really weren't meant to do. They're...being corrupted, by this war. By, you know, being forced to be generals instead of peacemakers."

I hope that this will finally convince people to stop praising the Jedi Order for taking command of the Clone Army and fighting the CIS for the Republic, or asserting that Karen Traviss was out-of-line with Lucas's own ideas when she characterized the Jedi's involvement in the war as a violation of their principles.
 
Last edited:
I'll look at refuting the rest of @LORD IMPERATOR's arguments sometime tomorrow, but before I shut down for the night, I'd like to share the results of some research I did into Lucas's on-record statements concerning the ethics of the Clone Wars re: the Jedi Order. From a May, 2005 E! Behind the Scenes segment:


Transcript of relevant comments is as follows:

Lucas: "The Jedi are always sort of fighting this reality of the fact that they're, in essence, diplomats. They sort of persuade people to do the right thing, but their job really isn't to go around fighting people. Uh, yet they're now used as generals and they're fighting in a war and they're doing something they... really weren't meant to do. They're...being corrupted, by this war. By, you know, being forced to be generals instead of peacemakers."

I hope that this will finally convince people to stop praising the Jedi Order for taking command of the Clone Army and fighting the CIS for the Republic.

Lucas was still the same person who created this scene:


This is the scene where all the Confederate leaders are portrayed as greedy assholes who would use a massive droid army to make the Republic do as they say, which shows how evil the CIS was in the end, no matter how justified the Separatist cause may be. So if the Jedi didn't fight, the Republic and its people would be held hostage by an army of robots controlled by greedy corporate assholes. The Jedi were corrupted by the war, but if they didn't fight the war, the Republic officers would have, and they'd have used the clones as cannon fodder and tools to commit war crimes. Either that, or if neither the clones or the Jedi fought, the greedy Confederate leaders would have held the Republic in their grasp. And EPI already showed us that a galaxy under them wouldn't be nice. It was more a testament to Palpatine's genius rather than the Jedi being evil; either they go into a war that would force them to become generals, OR evil rich corporate goons control the galaxy and fuck everyone in the ass. Lucas even made the CIS responsible for the original plans for the Death Star, which shows how sinister the CIS was. Not only were they planning to hold the galaxy hostage with a massive robot army, but they were also planning to create a planet-destroying space station-which obviously would be used to threaten non-compliant worlds with total eradication.

I mean, fuck, the CIS were such assholes that early Imperials really hated them. And that was before the Empire went full racist against nonhumans. The CIS caused so much harm that even the Jedi-killers wanted them dead.

All the stuff about the Confederates being sympathetic comes from TCW or the Expanded Universe. As far as Lucas was concerned, the Separatists were war-profiteering assholes who were planning to hold the galaxy hostage. And you're saying that war against such a power is unjustified? Especially when the Jedi treated the clones better than other commanders, and the Clone Army was loyal to the Republic?

And again, this is the same Lucas who portrayed the Mandalorians as people who keep losing. One got easily decapitated by a Jedi, another got punked by a blind man. That was the extent of Mandalorian participation in Lucas' movies, while the Jedi were the real heroes who stole the show and would have kept on going had Anakin not interfered in the duel between Sidious and Windu. If we stick with nothing but Lucas' movies, the Jedi were heroes who only had two episodes where they're being deceived by Sidious, while the Mandalorians are wannabes who keep losing to the good guys. That goes very much against your message that Mandos can take on Jedi and win, since the sole Jedi casualty to the Mandos was one dude who was taken by surprise.

The hell did I just walk into?

A minefield.
 
Last edited:
My point exactly. In fact, the new stuff has more respect for Beskar, since Rebels and the Mandalorian show explicitly depicted beskar absorbing blaster bolts. Whereas in Open Seasons, Mandalorians get gunned down by blasters all the time, which puzzled me when I read it.

I suppose beskar isn't necessarily lightsaber-proof or blaster-proof, just somewhat resistant to it, if the comics are any indication.

....Do you know who Rainier Wolfcastle is?
 
Back