Rose is a nice contrast to the Classic Doctor's roster of posh companions, but now that all of the Doctor's (post-Clara) companions are cockney trash, its hard to see what value she brings to the table.
To me, the value of Rose wasn't Supreme Chav herself, but her supporting cast: Jackie, Mickey, and (sort of) Pete. Things like the accidental six month timeskip in the real world (and Mickey's subsequent questioning by police) made the series feel more grounded, like there was stuff going on outside of the little bubble that the Doctor and Rose were operating in. Keeping the out-of-focus supporting characters real and relevant was one of RTD's strengths (see Sara Jane's reintroduction or the greatest non-companion companion of them all, Wilf.)
To me, the value of Rose wasn't Supreme Chav herself, but her supporting cast: Jackie, Mickey, and (sort of) Pete. Things like the accidental six month timeskip in the real world (and Mickey's subsequent questioning by police) made the series feel more grounded, like there was stuff going on outside of the little bubble that the Doctor and Rose were operating in. Keeping the out-of-focus supporting characters real and relevant was one of RTD's strengths (see Sara Jane's reintroduction or the greatest non-companion companion of them all, Wilf.)
This is one area where I thought the Moffat era really fell off a cliff. The companions had families, but most of the time the writers seemed to forget this fact. How does Brian feel about Rory being stuck years in the past and not being able to see him again? We see in "The Big Bang" Amy has parents. How do they feel about it? How does Clara's family react to her living out her final days on the run from her own death? It didn't help that Moffat leaned hard into the family stuff in Series 8, then seemed to ignore it in Series 9. To me it just came off as lazy - Moffat didn't want to deal with that shit because he knew it would be messy and complicated, so he swept it under the rug and hoped we'd all forget about it. I know the Classic Series rarely dealt with that kind of thing, but that was excusable because TV storytelling worked differently back then.
One of Chibnall's only strengths (you don't know how hard it is for me to use that word in relation to that man) is that he brought this element back in a big way, but as with everything else in the current era, it's one step forwards, fifteen backwards into a ditch filled with shit.
It didn't go so well. The story comes to a dead stop in the first part as the sixth doctor and flip discuss how Lovecraft is a racist so no one should read his stuff. I hope this doesn't become a reoccurring theme with other stories.
It didn't go so well. The story comes to a dead stop in the first part as the sixth doctor and flip discuss how Lovecraft is a racist so no one should read his stuff. I hope this doesn't become a reoccurring theme with other stories.
It didn't go so well. The story comes to a dead stop in the first part as the sixth doctor and flip discuss how Lovecraft is a racist so no one should read his stuff. I hope this doesn't become a reoccurring theme with other stories.
They actually delayed the release of this story to theoretically re-edit part of it to provide a firmer stance, at least according to our fellow autists at the Not The Big Finish Forums. Supposedly the story isn't too different from what was meant to be released and that most of it is intact. They were quite pissed it got delayed in the first place and a surprising amount of them were calling BF out on their crap.
EDIT: speaking of autists, I found this gem in a thread about Eccleston's return:
Seems he always steered clear because he had some bad associations with it, other than the higher-ups being assholes.
It didn't go so well. The story comes to a dead stop in the first part as the sixth doctor and flip discuss how Lovecraft is a racist so no one should read his stuff. I hope this doesn't become a reoccurring theme with other stories.
It didn't go so well. The story comes to a dead stop in the first part as the sixth doctor and flip discuss how Lovecraft is a racist so no one should read his stuff. I hope this doesn't become a reoccurring theme with other stories.
Holy shit, the new Lovecraft Country show didn't even go that far: there was a line about 'stories have flaws just like people' and Lovecraft's racism was briefly touched on, and this is a show made by black people about blacks in 50s America
It didn't go so well. The story comes to a dead stop in the first part as the sixth doctor and flip discuss how Lovecraft is a racist so no one should read his stuff. I hope this doesn't become a reoccurring theme with other stories.
Well fuck. I am a big Lovecraft fan (weirdly, hasn't made me racist - how can that be?) and I've bought plenty of Big Finish dramas over the years. Sixth Doctor ones have always been a favourite of mine. This would have been an auto-buy for me. Fuck.
Does it really imply people shouldn't read Lovecraft? And how is it apart from that?
EDIT: I just listened to the trailer and saw this on the product page:
The Lovecraft Invasion is a triumph: writer Rob Valentine’s best story to date, and one of the absolute highlights of the year. It’s a funny, touching, literate and unashamedly political romp that delights just as much as it provokes... this might be the most timely release ever produced by Big Finish, and it deserves enormous respect for not just making a stand, but making it in such an eloquent and enjoyable way.
Jfc, the English accents are worse: hammy, clipped, bizarre almost. I doubt I could listen to that for more than five minutes. Also any writer in the fantasy, SF or horror genres who shits on Lovecraft's fiction is a fucking hypocritical hack who is denying the man's influence.
Jfc, the English accents are worse: hammy, clipped, bizarre almost. I doubt I could listen to that for more than five minutes. Also any writer in the fantasy, SF or horror genres who shits on Lovecraft's fiction is a fucking hypocritical hack who is denying the man's influence.
If you hate Lovecraft gtfo of horror. The best of these little SJW worms isn't worthy to lick Lovecraft's shoes while he calls them a bunch of niggers.
If you hate Lovecraft gtfo of horror. The best of these little SJW worms isn't worthy to lick Lovecraft's shoes while he calls them a bunch of niggers.
Lovecraft Country so far, is black people not shitting on Howard, while acknowledging he called them niggers and was an exceptional person. Death of the author, or saving something for later? I've yet to read the novel, but the Green Book = The Necronomicon is a nice conceit.
Jfc, the English accents are worse: hammy, clipped, bizarre almost. I doubt I could listen to that for more than five minutes. Also any writer in the fantasy, SF or horror genres who shits on Lovecraft's fiction is a fucking hypocritical hack who is denying the man's influence.
I'm suddenly reminded of those idiots who "replace cancelled creators" like J.K. Rowling and Minecraft's creator with Hatsune Miku (a Japanese mascot character for a music program, mind you) because they vaguely said something that may or may not have been transphobic one time. Virtue signaling is a hell of a drug.
-Now, I don't like Rose (obviously lol) but the ending to that last episode where 9 told the Daleks that he was coming to kick their ass and get her back was pretty awesome. Right on show.
-The Daleks are trying to get information from Rose. She's an idiot though and she has no information for you Daleks, she's totally wasting your time.
-Wow, that's probably the worst "TARDIS flying through space" effect that they've done since Doctor Who came back this series... And I love it >_< It looks intentionally bad, like they were copying/paying homage to retro Who. Right on. And then it crashes into the Dalek missile with an explosion that doesn't seem to even actually mean anything (which is fine).
-"And for my next Trick." I like the line, but they reused it in the 50th anniversary and hearing it now just made me realize I'm still pissed at Eccleston for not coming back for that. It actively made the show as a whole so much worse because he didn't.
-A Dalek just shot Rose and Jack just shot at and exploded the Dalek. I guess the state of temporal grace whatsit in the T.A.R.D.I.S. must be on the fritz. Come to think of it, I don't think they've established that as a thing in Nu-Who yet.
-I like it when 9 does menacing. It's a real shame he never did it more,
-Emperor Dalek: We ground up dead humans and used them to make new Daleks.
Rose: Doesn't that makes them half-human?
Me: Doesn't that technically make them fully human?
The Dalek Emperor just said he purged all humanity from the human goo he harvested, I guess I'm just not understanding what the fuck he made these new Daleks out of then. It sounds like he's bullshitting.
-Daleks are apparently religious now. I don't remember this being a thing after this episode.
-9 is calling bullshit and saying that these new Daleks are human, and it made them crazy? I'm not trying to nitpick here, but this shit is hard to follow.
-Based black guy who called Rose and idiot, and won Weakest Link last episode is still here. I see a bright future for this guy.
-LMFAO... This look on Rose's face when "Linda with a Y" is more excited over what the Doctor is doing than she is really says more than I ever could...
-...But I'll say it anyway, because it's still happening in the next scene. JFC, they aren't even trying to hide the fact that Rose is a jealous cunt who gets pissy any time The Doctor even so much as smiles at a woman who isn't her. You have to actively try to make a character this unlikable, and even then it isn't necessarily easy.
- @Mr. 0 I saw that edit you made to your last post earlier today. I do genuinely wonder if Barrowman is going to get #metoo 'd. If he was literally waving his dick around in people's faces, it at least seems possible. The whole "I can't be a sex pest, I'm gay" shtick didn't work particularly well for Kevin Spacey.
And I totally didn't just randomly bring this up right now because Jack just kissed Rose and 9 on the lips back to back without asking either of them first, and even I thought that was kind of gross, why would you think that? lol
-I think I'm gonna have to change my opinion on based black guy. What an asshole.
-Rose: You've got a time machine, why can't you just go back to last week and warn them?
Bitch. I know you're dumb, but surely even *you* can't be dumb enough to not remember that time where you did something strikingly similar to what you just suggested, and almost destroyed the whole world in 1987. It was only what? 5 episodes ago.
-9 Just responded to Rose's stupid question by saying that they could just leave in the Tardis, and then answering for her by saying that she would never even think to ask that. I'm not so sure myself. You're "just too good" indeed Rose >.>. FUCK YOU.
-LMFAO It took you 13 episodes, Doctor 9. All the way up until your very last episode, but you *finally* outsmarted someone dumber than you. (As opposed to being outsmarted by pretty much everyone else so far this series.) You got Rose to stay in the Tardis while you sent it back to her time.
-Ok... I can admit it, when Holo 9, at the end of his pre-recorded message, turned to where Rose was actually standing and said "Have a good life, do that for me Rose. Have a fantastic life." it got some genuine feels from me. Dammit.
-aaaaaaand of course Mickey the cuck comes running. You know Mickey, I guess I can say that at least you eventually found somebody... In retrospect, it's almost poetic. Mickey gets cucked with Rose by the Doctor, and then later Martha gets cucked with the Doctor by (the memory of) Rose. They actually *do* kind of have a bit more in common than both being black, even if Martha had to forget about a fiance to get them there.
-Bad Wolf still has nothing to do with anything, quit trying to pretend that it does, fuck you.
-Mickey: If you go back, you're going to die.
Rose: That's a risk I've got to take, because there's nothing left for me here.
Me: Even if you *really* believe that Rose (and it's obvious that you do) FUCK YOU. If you've totally given up on Mickey (And tbh I don't even blame you there anymore) YOUR MOTHER, i.e. a woman who obviously still somehow loves you, despite you being a total and utter cunt to her, and who you have fucked over this entire series... Even though she is *literally* just you +20 years is still there. I'm gonna say it again. FUCK YOU.
This is a hot take, if Doctor 9 had popped out of the Tardis in 1985 and met Jackie in the same circumstance that he met Rose, nothing at all would be different, except Rose wouldn't have been born, because he would have just cucked Pete instead of Mickey, and Jackie would have been his Rose.. because they're both the same.
My point remains the same, Rose is just her mother, and she was a fucking cunt to say that to Mickey, even though she obviously believed it.
-Damn, this show even had to say that Mickey's fucking *car* was a wimp.
-HAHAHAHA The ANNE DROID just "killed" (maybe still transmatted, but transmatted to where? the Dalek fleet isn't there anymore.) a few Daleks. That was funny. Aaand she's dead now.
-Haha The Daleks are going down level to kill all the cowards, including (formerly) based Black Guy. RIP I guess you'll never get your money for winning the weakest link. That's still technically a "bright future" (but it doesn't count, I remembered that he died XD)
-Jackie just stole a fucking tow truck (Or whatever the fuck you britbongs call it) for you, Rose. Are you really still going to say that there's 'nothing left' for you in 2005? I'm gonna say it again. FUCK YOU. (Ok, Jackie just borrowed it from "Rodrigo", FOR YOU, but my sentiment remains the same.)
-Lynda just died. I guess it's a good thing Rose Tyler doesn't have competition anymore. She would have probably killed Lynda anyway once she got the power of the Tardis, because she's just that vindictive.
-The Doctor, with his fingers on the trigger of potentially killing every Dalek, but ultimately choosing not to, is nothing new. My opinion means nothing obviously, but I think 9 made the right call here (if he killed the Daleks here, then everyone else in range including humans would have died as well.) However, I'm also pretty sure that time has proven that 4 made shit call by *not* wiping out the Daleks when he could have.. (There was no downside there, except 4 didn't want to think of himself as a murderer.) Even though he's surely killed many more Daleks since then. That's a very large can of worms that there's no reason to open now though.
-The conclusion to the "Bad Wolf" 'arc' is still fucking stupid, and it will never *not* be fucking stupid. Rose got infinite powers from the heart of the Tardis, and she chose to use those powers to scatter the words "Bad Wolf" all across space and time, for reasons that have had absolutely no real effect on the plot, except that we now know that it's something that "Infinite powers Rose" had on her mind. It means even less now than it did originally.
-She also brought back Captain Jack as an immortal(?) as an afterthought. But we don't find that out until later, so forget I said it just now.
-This is a spectacular death for 9, id even call it "fantastic".
-9 somehow absorbs the heart of the Tardis from Rose with a kiss, and it kills him. This doesn't bother me.
-He leaves Jack behind. I forget how Jack gets back to that gap tooth bitch in 200X to be a part of Torchwood, but I'm sure I'll watch it at some point and remember.
-9 just saved Rose's life at the cost of his own. "You were fantastic, absolutely fantastic. And you know what? So was I." That was an amazing line 9, and you know what... you were even half right.
- I just watched a "special" that apparently takes place in-between when 9 regenerated to 10 and the Christmas episode. I don't think I ever saw this before.
Who the fuck is this new fag? Doctor 10? I'll talk about "The Christmas Invasion" sometime soon. But I won't be kind to it when I do... Take care all.
-"And for my next Trick." I like the line, but they reused it in the 50th anniversary and hearing it now just made me realize I'm still pissed at Eccleston for not coming back for that. It actively made the show as a whole so much worse because he didn't.
That was as much Moffat's fault as his. Paul McGann was RIGHT THERE, he even did a goddamn special for you, and instead they have to slot a whole new Doctor in instead of rolling the backup in the form of the fan favorite who never got a fair shot. Rest in piss, Moffat era.
That was as much Moffat's fault as his. Paul McGann was RIGHT THERE, he even did a goddamn special for you, and instead they have to slot a whole new Doctor in instead of rolling the backup in the form of the fan favorite who never got a fair shot. Rest in piss, Moffat era.
I can't really fault them for bringing in John Hurt as the "War Doctor" because come on it's John Hurt! But still I'd say they screwed up the obvious chance to have McCann come in and be a big presence.
I guess the guy can't be too mad since he's made a solid career just off Doctor Who audio dramas alone. And it feels like his tenure is going to outlive the reboot itself now since FemDoctor is a resounding failure.
-Now, I don't like Rose (obviously lol) but the ending to that last episode where 9 told the Daleks that he was coming to kick their ass and get her back was pretty awesome. Right on show.
-The Daleks are trying to get information from Rose. She's an idiot though and she has no information for you Daleks, she's totally wasting your time.
-Wow, that's probably the worst "TARDIS flying through space" effect that they've done since Doctor Who came back this series... And I love it >_< It looks intentionally bad, like they were copying/paying homage to retro Who. Right on. And then it crashes into the Dalek missile with an explosion that doesn't seem to even actually mean anything (which is fine).
-"And for my next Trick." I like the line, but they reused it in the 50th anniversary and hearing it now just made me realize I'm still pissed at Eccleston for not coming back for that. It actively made the show as a whole so much worse because he didn't.
-A Dalek just shot Rose and Jack just shot at and exploded the Dalek. I guess the state of temporal grace whatsit in the T.A.R.D.I.S. must be on the fritz. Come to think of it, I don't think they've established that as a thing in Nu-Who yet.
-I like it when 9 does menacing. It's a real shame he never did it more,
-Emperor Dalek: We ground up dead humans and used them to make new Daleks.
Rose: Doesn't that makes them half-human?
Me: Doesn't that technically make them fully human?
The Dalek Emperor just said he purged all humanity from the human goo he harvested, I guess I'm just not understanding what the fuck he made these new Daleks out of then. It sounds like he's bullshitting.
-Daleks are apparently religious now. I don't remember this being a thing after this episode.
-9 is calling bullshit and saying that these new Daleks are human, and it made them crazy? I'm not trying to nitpick here, but this shit is hard to follow.
-Based black guy who called Rose and idiot, and won Weakest Link last episode is still here. I see a bright future for this guy.
-LMFAO... This look on Rose's face when "Linda with a Y" is more excited over what the Doctor is doing than she is really says more than I ever could... View attachment 1533491
-...But I'll say it anyway, because it's still happening in the next scene. JFC, they aren't even trying to hide the fact that Rose is a jealous cunt who gets pissy any time The Doctor even so much as smiles at a woman who isn't her. You have to actively try to make a character this unlikable, and even then it isn't necessarily easy.
- @Mr. 0 I saw that edit you made to your last post earlier today. I do genuinely wonder if Barrowman is going to get #metoo 'd. If he was literally waving his dick around in people's faces, it at least seems possible. The whole "I can't be a sex pest, I'm gay" shtick didn't work particularly well for Kevin Spacey.
And I totally didn't just randomly bring this up right now because Jack just kissed Rose and 9 on the lips back to back without asking either of them first, and even I thought that was kind of gross, why would you think that? lol
-I think I'm gonna have to change my opinion on based black guy. What an asshole.
-Rose: You've got a time machine, why can't you just go back to last week and warn them?
Bitch. I know you're dumb, but surely even *you* can't be dumb enough to not remember that time where you did something strikingly similar to what you just suggested, and almost destroyed the whole world in 1987. It was only what? 5 episodes ago.
-9 Just responded to Rose's stupid question by saying that they could just leave in the Tardis, and then answering for her by saying that she would never even think to ask that. I'm not so sure myself. You're "just too good" indeed Rose >.>. FUCK YOU.
-LMFAO It took you 13 episodes, Doctor 9. All the way up until your very last episode, but you *finally* outsmarted someone dumber than you. (As opposed to being outsmarted by pretty much everyone else so far this series.) You got Rose to stay in the Tardis while you sent it back to her time.
-Ok... I can admit it, when Holo 9, at the end of his pre-recorded message, turned to where Rose was actually standing and said "Have a good life, do that for me Rose. Have a fantastic life." it got some genuine feels from me. Dammit.
-aaaaaaand of course Mickey the cuck comes running. You know Mickey, I guess I can say that at least you eventually found somebody... In retrospect, it's almost poetic. Mickey gets cucked with Rose by the Doctor, and then later Martha gets cucked with the Doctor by (the memory of) Rose. They actually *do* kind of have a bit more in common than both being black, even if Martha had to forget about a fiance to get them there.
-Bad Wolf still has nothing to do with anything, quit trying to pretend that it does, fuck you.
-Mickey: If you go back, you're going to die.
Rose: That's a risk I've got to take, because there's nothing left for me here.
Me: Even if you *really* believe that Rose (and it's obvious that you do) FUCK YOU. If you've totally given up on Mickey (And tbh I don't even blame you there anymore) YOUR MOTHER, i.e. a woman who obviously still somehow loves you, despite you being a total and utter cunt to her, and who you have fucked over this entire series... Even though she is *literally* just you +20 years is still there. I'm gonna say it again. FUCK YOU.
This is a hot take, if Doctor 9 had popped out of the Tardis in 1985 and met Jackie in the same circumstance that he met Rose, nothing at all would be different, except Rose wouldn't have been born, because he would have just cucked Pete instead of Mickey, and Jackie would have been his Rose.. because they're both the same.
My point remains the same, Rose is just her mother, and she was a fucking cunt to say that to Mickey, even though she obviously believed it.
-Damn, this show even had to say that Mickey's fucking *car* was a wimp.
-HAHAHAHA The ANNE DROID just "killed" (maybe still transmatted, but transmatted to where? the Dalek fleet isn't there anymore.) a few Daleks. That was funny. Aaand she's dead now.
-Haha The Daleks are going down level to kill all the cowards, including (formerly) based Black Guy. RIP I guess you'll never get your money for winning the weakest link. That's still technically a "bright future" (but it doesn't count, I remembered that he died XD)
-Jackie just stole a fucking tow truck (Or whatever the fuck you britbongs call it) for you, Rose. Are you really still going to say that there's 'nothing left' for you in 2005? I'm gonna say it again. FUCK YOU. (Ok, Jackie just borrowed it from "Rodrigo", FOR YOU, but my sentiment remains the same.)
-Lynda just died. I guess it's a good thing Rose Tyler doesn't have competition anymore. She would have probably killed Lynda anyway once she got the power of the Tardis, because she's just that vindictive.
-The Doctor, with his fingers on the trigger of potentially killing every Dalek, but ultimately choosing not to, is nothing new. My opinion means nothing obviously, but I think 9 made the right call here (if he killed the Daleks here, then everyone else in range including humans would have died as well.) However, I'm also pretty sure that time has proven that 4 made shit call by *not* wiping out the Daleks when he could have.. (There was no downside there, except 4 didn't want to think of himself as a murderer.) Even though he's surely killed many more Daleks since then. That's a very large can of worms that there's no reason to open now though.
-The conclusion to the "Bad Wolf" 'arc' is still fucking stupid, and it will never *not* be fucking stupid. Rose got infinite powers from the heart of the Tardis, and she chose to use those powers to scatter the words "Bad Wolf" all across space and time, for reasons that have had absolutely no real effect on the plot, except that we now know that it's something that "Infinite powers Rose" had on her mind. It means even less now than it did originally.
-She also brought back Captain Jack as an immortal(?) as an afterthought. But we don't find that out until later, so forget I said it just now.
-This is a spectacular death for 9, id even call it "fantastic".
-9 somehow absorbs the heart of the Tardis from Rose with a kiss, and it kills him. This doesn't bother me.
-He leaves Jack behind. I forget how Jack gets back to that gap tooth bitch in 200X to be a part of Torchwood, but I'm sure I'll watch it at some point and remember.
-9 just saved Rose's life at the cost of his own. "You were fantastic, absolutely fantastic. And you know what? So was I." That was an amazing line 9, and you know what... you were even half right.
- I just watched a "special" that apparently takes place in-between when 9 regenerated to 10 and the Christmas episode. I don't think I ever saw this before.
Who the fuck is this new fag? Doctor 10? I'll talk about "The Christmas Invasion" sometime soon. But I won't be kind to it when I do... Take care all.
I'm totally down for doing some Classic Who after I finish Series 2. (some of my takes were kind of shit, but I did already try to do something similar for Talons a few months ago.)
With that said, I would love to see you guys, @TheImportantFart , @Flexo and anyone else who wants to, give your opinions on episodes as well. The more the merrier!
