Jerry Peet / Lily Orchard / Lily Peet / Valkyrstudios / Bhaalspawn / Tara Callie / "Mod Ebara" - Sociopath writer of pedophile fanfiction and cartoon reviews, faked getting raped to force a divorce, then mobbed and gaslit their ex off Tumblr, satanist neoliberal of the MovieSlob variety, also wants to fuck dogs and/or pokemon

You know come to think of it, if a woman fucks a female dolphin somehow, isn't it still lesbian?
I mean fuck it at that point.

It's almost like it's the dynamic and actual relationship that matters, not just the label you can slap on it (unless it's a crime)
Anyway
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I don't shit about WoW

But imagine you heard a bunch of incels ranting that the sjws ruined...I don't know...Kylo Ren or something.

And they pledged they'd like him out of spite until they were 45 and had better things to do.
Lily and her fans can't really see characters beyond their sex and gender?

Lily has already admitted to liking Sylvanas for the spite of how she is written, but can't Arthas fans do the same without being called misogynists?
(stupid questions, of course everyone who doesn't agree with Lily is the worst scum in the world)

I don't know much about WoW but if it's a story with gray morality then Sylvanas Is a villain if she is willing to kill innocents or an entire people who just want protection to punish a guy, Lily thinks people should be grateful to genocides for killing "the right people"

it should be really cool just cancel each criticism or different opinion with name calling, especially in a game where the story lets you support one side as part of the gameplay
 
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Big ass post about why Sylvanas is a comfort character for Lily.
Cause they've both been through so much misogyny and abuse :(
 
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I'm also not that big of a WoW lore nerd, so someone can correct me, but: Isn't Arthas's entire story about how one man, in sacrificing his humanity to protect his country from Demons have been manipulating his rage for a while now, becomes a monster and only realizes what he's done when it's too late to turn back? Like, his story has nothing to do with women not wanting to bang him nor with him going "But I'm such a nice guy!"?

And wasn't Sylvanas his right hand woman for a while who was happy to commit terrible acts, but didn't like that she was getting ordered around?
Pretty much, yeah.

Arthas was driven to monstrous acts out of sheer desperation to save his kingdom and his people from being destroyed by the Scourge of the Undead. He then willingly takes up a cursed sword to give himself the power boost needed to kill the leader of the Scourge, not knowing that it was all a trap laid for him by the Lich King, to turn him into his own personal champion. The cursed sword, Frostmourne, stole his soul, drove him insane with the Lich King's whispering, and resurrected him as a Death Knight, after he died wandering the frozen hellscape of the far north.

How much of what he does afterwards is his own choice is ambiguous at best. All undead were under the complete control of the Lich King, and while Arthas somewhat retained his personality, his soul was absorbed into the sword and the Lich King was whispering in his ear 24/7. And even after he merges with the Lich King and takes control of the merged persona, his soul remains trapped right until moments before he dies, when he turns back to normal for a few seconds.

Sylvanas was unambigiously the mind controlled puppet of the Lich King after being killed and raised as a banshee by Arthas, but she retained her soul and regained her free will during the events of Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne. So all the bad shit she did afterwards (raising and enslaving undead, torturing her own subjects, betraying her allies, comittting warcrimes out of sheer spite, selling innocent souls to an eldritch abomination to increase her own power, treating everyone and everything as expendable tools, ect.) were done of her own free will. Undeath might have twisted her, but she was completely in control of everything she did in the WoW storylines, and she chose to become a monster like Arthas, to the point where she ends up in Hell right next to him when she temporarily dies at the end of the Wrath of the Lich King storyline.
 
Pretty much, yeah.

Arthas was driven to monstrous acts out of sheer desperation to save his kingdom and his people from being destroyed by the Scourge of the Undead. He then willingly takes up a cursed sword to give himself the power boost needed to kill the leader of the Scourge, not knowing that it was all a trap laid for him by the Lich King, to turn him into his own personal champion. The cursed sword, Frostmourne, stole his soul, drove him insane with the Lich King's whispering, and resurrected him as a Death Knight, after he died wandering the frozen hellscape of the far north.

How much of what he does afterwards is his own choice is ambiguous at best. All undead were under the complete control of the Lich King, and while Arthas somewhat retained his personality, his soul was absorbed into the sword and the Lich King was whispering in his ear 24/7. And even after he merges with the Lich King and takes control of the merged persona, his soul remains trapped right until moments before he dies, when he turns back to normal for a few seconds.

Sylvanas was unambigiously the mind controlled puppet of the Lich King after being killed and raised as a banshee by Arthas, but she retained her soul and regained her free will during the events of Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne. So all the bad shit she did afterwards (raising and enslaving undead, torturing her own subjects, betraying her allies, comittting warcrimes out of sheer spite, selling innocent souls to an eldritch abomination to increase her own power, treating everyone and everything as expendable tools, ect.) were done of her own free will. Undeath might have twisted her, but she was completely in control of everything she did in the WoW storylines, and she chose to become a monster like Arthas, to the point where she ends up in Hell right next to him when she temporarily dies at the end of the Wrath of the Lich King storyline.
What part of any of that translates into abuse, rape and being abandoned by everyone she ever loved?

I don't know anything about WoW, but that summary just makes her look like a selfish asshole, which is surprisingly close to Liliana actually or even to Alaina, more with the abusing powers for her own gain.
 
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Big ass post about why Sylvanas is a comfort character for Lily.
Cause they've both been through so much misogyny and abuse :(
so it's not about the character or good writing, people project themselves on Sylvanas focusing only on the abuse she suffered and not on the pain she caused for others, Lily and her fans make the story narrative about themselves (making Sylvanas a kind of a sefl-insert designed to justify its actions with "she is hurt UWU")

"since you’ve been abused, raped and abandoned, as well as villainized and subjected to misogynistic rhetoric and people openly and publicly fantasizing about killing or otherwise hurting you."
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news for you, just because you have been abused does not mean that it is an excuse to be abusive back to others who "deserve", and with the victim mentality and ignorance of criticisms and accusations that Lily propagates, no one is able to see their own behaviors as toxics since they see themselves as a queen banshee fighting evil.

Sylvanas is an apologetic character for Lily to project herself and that she can fantasize that she is right
What part of any of that translates into abuse, rape and being abandoned by everyone she ever loved?

I don't know anything about WoW, but that summary just makes her look like a selfish asshole, which is surprisingly close to Liliana actually or even to Alaina, more with the abusing powers for her own gain.
they always associate something bad with "abuse and rape" and if it was done by a man it is misogyny, no matter the context, because of PTSD or something

she was used and controlled and wounded, but also like a lot of people she tortured and killed afterwards and such a violent and selfish leader of course would be abandoned

she became as bad as her abusers without empathizing with her subjects and manipulating her allies, so yes it’s like Lily and her fanfiction characters
 
What part of any of that translates into abuse, rape and being abandoned by everyone she ever loved?

I don't know anything about WoW, but that summary just makes her look like a selfish asshole, which is surprisingly close to Liliana actually or even to Alaina, more with the abusing powers for her own gain.
If I had to guess
Being turned into an undead abomination against her will = rape
Being forced to murder her own people and serve as Arthas' lieutentant = abuse
Those are by and large fairly reasonable comparisons

As for being abandoned by everyone she ever loved...
She had this thing where she wanted to turn her two sisters into undead so that they can be together for all eternity, while not giving a shit about her sisters having lives and families that they might not want to abandon.
At one point Sylvanas invites her younger sister Vereesa to live with her in the Undercity, while secretly planning to murder her in her sleep and raise her as a zombie so they can rule together. Her sister who initially accepts, but ultimately doesn't feel comfortable abandoning children for that and declines the offer. After which Sylvanas throws a massive tantrum and vows to never love again.

I don't find it hard to see why Lily would deeply identify with that level of sociopathic entitlement.
 
Pretty much, yeah.

Arthas was driven to monstrous acts out of sheer desperation to save his kingdom and his people from being destroyed by the Scourge of the Undead. He then willingly takes up a cursed sword to give himself the power boost needed to kill the leader of the Scourge, not knowing that it was all a trap laid for him by the Lich King, to turn him into his own personal champion. The cursed sword, Frostmourne, stole his soul, drove him insane with the Lich King's whispering, and resurrected him as a Death Knight, after he died wandering the frozen hellscape of the far north.

How much of what he does afterwards is his own choice is ambiguous at best. All undead were under the complete control of the Lich King, and while Arthas somewhat retained his personality, his soul was absorbed into the sword and the Lich King was whispering in his ear 24/7. And even after he merges with the Lich King and takes control of the merged persona, his soul remains trapped right until moments before he dies, when he turns back to normal for a few seconds.

Sylvanas was unambigiously the mind controlled puppet of the Lich King after being killed and raised as a banshee by Arthas, but she retained her soul and regained her free will during the events of Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne. So all the bad shit she did afterwards (raising and enslaving undead, torturing her own subjects, betraying her allies, comittting warcrimes out of sheer spite, selling innocent souls to an eldritch abomination to increase her own power, treating everyone and everything as expendable tools, ect.) were done of her own free will. Undeath might have twisted her, but she was completely in control of everything she did in the WoW storylines, and she chose to become a monster like Arthas, to the point where she ends up in Hell right next to him when she temporarily dies at the end of the Wrath of the Lich King storyline.
Good summary. Just re-watched some Warcraft Reforged cutscenes to jog my memory of Warcraft 3, it's an interesting character journey.

And on the comment of 'she was abandoned, abused and raped by those she loved', that doesn't track well. From what I've been watching, her loyal soldiers fought by her side to the bitter end, then she gets turned into a Banshee and after she regains her free will she says "Fuck Humanity" and becomes the big titty genocidal waifu Jerry's masturbating to. Don't see any of her allies 'abandoning' or abusing her, just standing against her when she wreaks atrocities on their people.
 
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What part of any of that translates into abuse, rape and being abandoned by everyone she ever loved?
As far as rape goes, fucking nothing. Lily has fabricated an allegory that "Arthas Raped Sylvanas" because it validates her own feelings towards her and allows her to project herself onto Sylvanas much easier. Whether or not Lily was actually raped in the past, she fully believes she was, and because she has so fully invested herself in Sylvanas (an investment that started purely out of spite in the beginning because she didn't like the story Blizzard was telling) she has started to ascribe her own traits onto Sylvanas.

Lily only came to her realization that she was "raped" months after the supposed event happened. Likewise, she only started blowing this "Arthas Raped Sylvanas" horn lately because she has convinced herself it is true, and if you don't believe it you deserve to have your head bashed in because you're obviously a misogynistic fuck.

As far as abuse, yeah, Arthas did torture her and force her to murder her own people, that would fuck anyone up.
For abandonment Lily loves to harp on about how Quel'thalas' former allies (The Alliance) only saw The Scourge whenever they looked at any Forsaken and actively hunted them. Which, I mean yeah, being so blind was a bad move on the Alliance's part.
But she also loves to bitch and moan about her living sisters, Vereesa and Alleria, """abandoned""" her. She will never address the fact that Sylvanas planned to murder not only Vereesa but also her children to raise them into undeath. And THEN she planned to murder both of her sisters and raise them into undeath AGAIN.
Like, letting them live was never an option in Sylvanas' mind, and Lily is perfectly okay with that because Sylvanas can do no wrong.

To Lily, Warcraft is very black and white with no room for any subtlety. The Alliance are all religious Nazis, The Horde are all blithering idiots obsessed with honor, and Sylvanas is a paragon of everything she perceives as right. What started out as her liking a character from Warcraft 3 and having her obsession with said character grow purely out of spite for the direction the story took has spiraled into an absolute shitstorm that is purely indicative of Lily and her fanbase.

It's also super fucking ironic how much Lily lambasts the shit out of the Diamonds in Steven Universe for being fascist, genocidal monsters... And yet her absolute favorite character ever is a fascist, genocidal monster that has abducted, tortured, and attempted to brainwash her own people. Oh, but it's totally fine to genocide the Night Elves... because Sylvanas did it... And that makes it perfectly okay and the right thing to do.

As someone who has been big into WoW since it first launched it's absolutely infuriating to watch it be completely misread, misrepresented, and bastardized in atrocious, self-insert fanfiction. It's even worse when the person that is doing the horrible bastardization continues to just plug her ears and yell at the top of her lungs over anyone trying to even just understand her side or clarify points she misread.

TL;DR: Lily continues to consistently misread and ascribe attributes onto Warcraft characters that don't fucking exist because it validates her own feelings on the characters.
 
Thanks for all the clarifications. The more I hear about Sylvannas, the more it seems is just another version of G or Lalaina, which doesn't surprise me. She tries to treat her like a fragile uwu poor womyn but everyone else can see her massive character flaws. Everyone but Liliana.

I wouldn't care about people liking characters such as those if they at least were honest about who those characters are, instead of trying to use their own subjective reading like the only existing one. That I can imagine would irritate any fan of any property.

Although we all know that if Liliana wrote Sylvannas, she would have killed the entire families of the sisters and then force the sisters into a incestuous threesome because that is the only way she can feel validated on her disgustingly selfish worldview. "They are happy as undead so what does it matter there wasn't consent" has the same logic as "I'm happy as a mother of hybrid thing so why consent would matter."
 
Although we all know that if Liliana wrote Sylvannas, she would have killed the entire families of the sisters and then force the sisters into a incestuous threesome because that is the only way she can feel validated on her disgustingly selfish worldview. "They are happy as undead so what does it matter there wasn't consent" has the same logic as "I'm happy as a mother of hybrid thing so why consent would matter."
That's an excellent point: If Arthas killing Sylvanas and raising her into undeath is rape.... Then Sylvanas wanted to rape her sisters and her sister's children.
So, standard Lily Orchard fare.
 
That's an excellent point: If Arthas killing Sylvanas and raising her into undeath is rape.... Then Sylvanas wanted to rape her sisters and her sister's children.
So, standard Lily Orchard fare.

Rape is a traumatic situation in which somebody forces another person to have sexual intercourse with them.

Rape is not “literally anything I have to do or am made to do that I dislike”.

I am so sick of these spergs throwing the word “rape” at every fucking they possibly can.
 
That Sylvanas backstory is pretty cool, and I totally see why people would like the character (and, to my understanding, no longer like the character because she's gone from gray morality and sympathetic excuses to just WAR CRIMES ALL TIMES because Blizzard is trying to push a narrative). Thing about that kind of character, though, is that you're supposed to enjoy them for that ambiguity and that sympathetic side, even though you know that they're wrong. It's a tragedy. It's okay to like and sympathize with a character that's deeply flawed or even villainous. You don't have to keep backpedaling and explaining how they're actually always right and justified and it's the rest of the world that's mean to them.

Honestly reminds me of Snape fans from some years ago. Everybody else in the universe was wrong and Snape was just a poor victim of circumstances and definitely not an embittered jackass who abused his students. (In fact, that time he threatened to kill somebody's pet was totally justified and a great method of teaching.)

View attachment 1554320
Big ass post about why Sylvanas is a comfort character for Lily.
Cause they've both been through so much misogyny and abuse :(
And I'm totally certain this was all an non and not, say, Lily pretending some third-party and therefore impartial observer was psycho-analyzing her and proving how sympathetic and strong she is.

The thing that really gets me about this is that it's being used to justify Lily dealing with her 'trauma' by sympathizing with a character who is empowered by dealing with her trauma in dark and violent ways... but months ago, somebody told Lily that a lot of ReyLo shippers actually used that pairing to work through their own trauma and Lily said it was unhealthy and gross and no excuse.

Rules for thee.
 
Honestly reminds me of Snape fans from some years ago. Everybody else in the universe was wrong and Snape was just a poor victim of circumstances and definitely not an embittered jackass who abused his students. (In fact, that time he threatened to kill somebody's pet was totally justified and a great method of teaching.)

Snape was an odd character. At first, he was basically just an asshole for the most part, he'd hurl verbal abuse at students and show favoritism towards his house, but he'd still do his job and protect the kids when push comes to shove. Then Rowling revealed more of his backstory, more of the things he's done or allowed to happen and then still treats him as just an asshole. Dude was perfectly willing to let the Dark Lord murder men and children out of spite just as long as his childhood crush gets out okay and only protects Harry
because of that. And yet he still gets the honor of having Harry's kid named after him over the other friends that died in the Battle of Hogwarts because he was 'one of the greatest men' Harry has ever known.

Which is indeed similar to Lilly's treatment of Sylvanas, where she treats the character as just 'Asshole who actually has good intentions'
 
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Snape was an odd character. At first, he was basically just an asshole for the most part, he'd hurl verbal abuse at students and show favoritism towards his house, but he'd still do his job and protect the kids when push comes to shove. Then Rowling revealed more of his backstory, more of the things he's done or allowed to happen and then still treats him as just an asshole. Dude was perfectly willing to let the Dark Lord murder men and children out of spite just as long as his childhood crush gets out okay and only protects Harry
because of that. And yet he still gets the honor of having Harry's kid named after him over the other friends that died in the Battle of Hogwarts because he was 'one of the greatest men' Harry has ever known.

Which is indeed similar to Lilly's treatment of Sylvanas, where she treats the character as just 'Asshole who actually has good intentions'
To be fair, wasn't he secretly protecting kids in Hogwarts from even worse shit than mere beatings like Neville got? Been a while since I read DH.
 
To be fair, wasn't he secretly protecting kids in Hogwarts from even worse shit than mere beatings like Neville got? Been a while since I read DH.
He was, and that's one of the facets that makes him a legitimately fascinating character.

Snape has some sympathetic backstory, and he did do good things when the situation was really bad, and in the end it was his love for Lily that led him to willingly sacrificing himself to enable killing Voldemort. But he was also a colossal asshole whose love was just as selfish as is it was selfless. Thing is that with a character like Snape (particularly in the books, as in the movies he was softened and smoothed and also Alan Rickman) you're shown how he turned out the way he did, and it is kind of sad, but it's also completely his fault. Rowling has always said that Snape was a piece of work and the product of his own choices-- even if you sympathize with what happened in his youth, he was still the one who decided to join the wizard supremacist death cult and was pretty okay with, you know, rampant racism and genocide until his high school crush was suddenly a target.

How much sincerity you ascribe to him and how much you're willing to forgive is going to change depending on who you talk to, which is what makes his character really interesting. I had a particular interpretation of him, which was different from some other people in the discussion groups I would follow, but every interpretation was valid (and I don't mean that in the modern use of the word, I mean that everybody could trace why they felt the way they did and from their perspective, yeah, it made sense, you could disagree but still understand). It was just good debates to have, really let you see some different perspectives and challenge your own assumptions, through this fairly accessible mirror of some greasy git in a children's book.

Then you would glance over to another group and suddenly it turns out that Lily was actually an alpha bitch who hurt poor Snapeykins so badly he was forced to join the Death Eaters out of emotional trauma (never mind that their argument happened because he was already hanging out with Death Eater kids and thinking about joining them), and if Lily had just accepted his apology it would've fixed all his years of maladjustment, and James was probably definitely physically abusive, and the fact that he traumatized Neville so badly that the visage of Snape was Neville's greatest fear, um... well he was disruptive in Snape's class, that eleven-year-old child deserved what he got.

You can have these really interesting, complex characters who aren't good people but are really good characters and you can love them for it and think of them as more or less sympathetic while still acknowledging that yeah, maybe some of the stuff they did was kind of... extreme. A character doesn't have to be a good person for you to like and relate to them. And everybody who gets in their way doesn't have to be the embodiment of evil.

Which comes back around the Sylvanas and Arthas thing. It's okay to like and identify with Sylvanas and know that not everything she does is good because it turns out all of her opposition abused her. You can find her backstory tragic and sympathetic without piling on arbitrary nonsense and breaking down other characters. Because once you start doing that, it's no longer the character that you like, it's this weird projected ideal that happens to be wearing their skin.

To be honest, I've never really understood why this happens. It's one thing to have differing interpretations of a character (sometimes wildly differing, but still rooted in the source material) and another to decide that this character is actually this completely other kind of person and anybody who disagrees is just too stupid to understand. Where did that interpretation come from? Why are they so rabid to defend it? Why did they latch on to the character if they were just going to hollow them out and replace them with something else?

Far be it for me to tell somebody else how to have their fun online (and it's really less of a 'stop having fun' thing than that I just legitimately don't understand), but then you get people like Lily who take this weird skin-puppet version of a character and insist that their read is correct, go fuck yourself with your perspective and opinions and canonical facts. At which point, yeah, now you aren't just having fun, you're trying to control the narrative, with characters that aren't even yours, at the expense of the entire rest of their universe.
 
To be honest, I've never really understood why this happens. It's one thing to have differing interpretations of a character (sometimes wildly differing, but still rooted in the source material) and another to decide that this character is actually this completely other kind of person and anybody who disagrees is just too stupid to understand. Where did that interpretation come from? Why are they so rabid to defend it? Why did they latch on to the character if they were just going to hollow them out and replace them with something else?
When you attach yourself so deeply in a character to a degree that you're treating them as part of your identity and hailing their name like a cult leader, you tend to want to look at them in a way that makes them superior in all areas. They have to be better than the characters you like. Physically, mentally and morally. Any wrong they've committed was just them making a hard decision that everyone else is too much of a pussy to do. Any fight they lost is because of external context. Any failure is someone else's fault. Any pain is worse than any other character's pain. They have to be perfect because you're projecting parts of yourself onto them, so any strike against them is a strike against you.
 
When you attach yourself so deeply in a character to a degree that you're treating them as part of your identity and hailing their name like a cult leader, you tend to want to look at them in a way that makes them superior in all areas. They have to be better than the characters you like. Physically, mentally and morally. Any wrong they've committed was just them making a hard decision that everyone else is too much of a pussy to do. Any fight they lost is because of external context. Any failure is someone else's fault. Any pain is worse than any other character's pain. They have to be perfect because you're projecting parts of yourself onto them, so any strike against them is a strike against you.
I feel like this is a big reason why certain shows, especially ones from 2010, get a lot of criticism from fans about "bad writing".
 
We know lily likes to be obessed with things to a point she makes it appart of her personality but then geg alldepressed wjen one little thing is bad about it. Shes been obsessed with sylvanas for ages now and is her magnum opas that shes writter herself to bemore like and other self inserts come across as a lily orchard fused with a sylvanas.


God f9rbit wow does one thing slightly questionable then her wholenworkd would come falling down

This is what you vet for being so obsessed with one thing and make it your persinality
 
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To be honest, I've never really understood why this happens. It's one thing to have differing interpretations of a character (sometimes wildly differing, but still rooted in the source material) and another to decide that this character is actually this completely other kind of person and anybody who disagrees is just too stupid to understand. Where did that interpretation come from? Why are they so rabid to defend it? Why did they latch on to the character if they were just going to hollow them out and replace them with something else?
My guess is that Lily also secretly wishes she was Sylvanas. Sylvanas, from the moment she was introduced, had to endure many hardships to get to where she is. She faced Arthas, died, became a banshee, fought to break free of his control, as a Forsaken she was abandoned by her former home and her people were being slaughtered, you get the point. And in the end she became extremely powerful. (some might say too powerful)

And I have a feeling Lily wishes to be the same. She wants to be perceived as this badass strong woman that cannot be put down by anyone. That's why she goes around airing her own laundry and talking smack about Lizzy: she wants her fans to see her as this strong woman that survived an abusive fiancee, was raped twice, stabbed, molested by the police, had a knife in her spine, firecrackers blown in her face, and even got infected with coronavirus twice. But she doesn't realise that there's one thing to have all these hardships during the span of what, hundreds of years? and having them in the span of a year. Like seriously, Lily, you're telling us than these during these last, what, 3 years, all bad that could happen happened to you?

If she just wants to have her own interpretation of Sylvanas, fine, but she pushes her own view of the character onto other people because Lily sees this strong woman and immediately wants to be as badass as her.
There's just one problem: Sylvanas is a FICTIONAL character, and well World of Warcraft is packed to the brim with fantasy elements. Everything that Sylvanas endured was fantastical in nature so when Lily tries to convert these actions into the real world, it all looks like it's blown out of proportion.
 
Lilly's priorities in writing remind me of that 'House of Night' book series that came about around the Twilight craze. You know, one of those many shitty bargin bin romance novels bending Vampire lore over the table and fucking it raw. Incestuous overtones, protag is a terrible person who only gets rewarded, repetitive 'Uwu, so cute!' scenes, mary sue bullshit and, of course, practically no actual story (20 chapters of the characters doing nothing and then suddenly the climax shows up). I'd say Lilly would have loved it, but the main character is straight... Even if I'm pretty sure one of the authors was so deep in the closet they would fall into Narnia.
 
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