Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[HandsomeDan]

Dune trailer dropped. Is it the (Disney) Star Wars killer?

We will have to see it does look visually incredible, I am uneasy about the gender and race swapping though (there is absolutely no reason for this, do they actually think the "urban youth" will be lining up to see Dune). I may be in the minority but I genuinely love the 80s Dune Film. I actually like the changes to the story in that film better than the book.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

We will have to see it does look visually incredible, I am uneasy about the gender and race swapping though (there is absolutely no reason for this, do they actually think the "urban youth" will be lining up to see Dune). I may be in the minority but I genuinely love the 80s Dune Film. I actually like the changes to the story in that film better than the book.

Gender and race swapping is a bad omen, but it may still end up being good.

 

[Kane Lives]

Gender and race swapping is a bad omen, but it may still end up being good.

You have far more faith than I in modern Hollywood, my friend.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You have far more faith than I in modern Hollywood, my friend.

Well, there is a small chance it may be good. Emphasis on small.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Every official source lists there being 300 Mandalorians at Galidraan.

Which official sources, exactly? All of the sources that deal with the incident in greater depth than "the True Mandalorians were wiped out" do not provide a specific number for the size of Jango's force, so far as I'm aware. As I said previously, if I somehow missed a noteworthy contradiction/exception, I'd be pleased if someone could point it out.

The fact that you are trying to pretend that there were less than 20 based on nothing more than how many bodies you can count in panels defies belief.

Actually, I'm counting living Mandos.

This is the largest number that's ever seen together in one panel in the book:

The artwork for Open Seasons, which is the original and by far the most detailed account of Galidraan, never provides any basis to suppose that the Mandalorians outnumbered the Jedi by any significant margin if at all, and if anything, depicts more Jedi than Mandalorian casualties, with the obvious implication that Haden Blackman's authorial intent was for the incident to represent a terrible loss of life for both sides (unless you want to argue that he had no input on the visuals that artist Ramon Bachs was supplying). The disparity with later, more vague accounts of what went down seems to have originated from later authors taking Komari Vosa's statement from the Star Wars: Bounty Hunter game about killing 20 Mandalorians at face value, rather than as a product of her fractured and broken psyche (Vosa having by that point been tortured to insanity by the Bando Gora cult), the latter being a simpler, less conflict-causing explanation.

At best your arguments only paint Galidraan as a political debacle.
Not a military one.

No, it's specifically invoked by Valorum in Luceno's Darth Plagueis as an example of why the Jedi should not be deployed on military operations:

It's closer to the Battle of Mogadishu or the Tet Offensive than Bunker Hill or Borodino.

Borodino is actually the better comparison, being a Pyrrhic victory for the French army which eventually lead to its destruction.

It's a symbol of Republic corruption not Jedi incompetence or Mandalorian badassery.
The Jedi destroyed the Mandalorians and completed their mission.
The mission just happened to be under false pretenses and was ultimately needless.

It's quite a a stretch to argue that chasing down the wrong group of soldiers, confronting them in such a way as to provoke a fight (particularly when they were, at first, merely pottering about their encampment), and then leaving without apparently carrying out any kind of follow-up investigation represents a display of competence for the Jedi in the peacekeeping-and-investigating role. In fact, Luceno's novel describes the incident as "an ultimately hopeless confrontation" for the Jedi, one that Darth Plagueis apparently engineered specifically to push Dooku towards disenchantment with the Jedi as a whole:

Apparently, the Jedi High Council is only too happy to play (obliviously) along in furthering the process of Dooku's alienation via their complacency and incompetence:

As for a "symbol" of "Mandalorian badassery," that's pretty much what Open Seasons was written to do in the first place: depict Jango Fett as the ultimate Mandalorian badass:

You waifus are shit and their only purpose is job to the Jedi and be Sith attack dogs.
Even Space Marine fanboys are less slobberingly sycophantic and don't deny reality as much as Fandalorians do.

It must be exhausting, being so angry.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Which official sources, exactly? All of the sources that deal with the incident in greater depth than "the True Mandalorians were wiped out" do not provide a specific number for the size of Jango's force, so far as I'm aware.

As I said previously, if I somehow missed a noteworthy contradiction/exception, I'd be pleased if someone could point it out.

Actually, I'm counting living Mandos.

This is the largest number that's ever seen together in one panel in the book:

View attachment 1588319

The artwork for Open Seasons, which is the original and by far the most detailed account of Galidraan, never provides any basis to suppose that the Mandalorians outnumbered the Jedi by any significant percentage if at all, and if anything, depicts more Jedi than Mandalorian casualties, with the obvious implication that Haden Blackman intended the incident to represent a terrible loss of life for both sides (unless you want to argue that he somehow had absolutely no input on the visuals that artist Ramon Bachs was supplying). The disparity with later, more vague accounts of what went down seems to have originated from later authors taking Komari Vosa's statement from the Star Wars: Bounty Hunter VG about killing 20 Mandalorians at face value, rather than as a product of her incurably fractured and broken psyche (Vosa having by that point been tortured to insanity by the Bando Gora cult), the latter being a simpler, less conflict-causing explanation.

No, it's specifically invoked by Valorum in Luceno's Darth Plagueis as an example of why the Jedi should not be deployed on military operations:

View attachment 1588299

Borodino is actually the better comparison, being a Pyrrhic victory for the French army which eventually lead to its destruction.

It's quite a a stretch to argue that chasing down the wrong group of soldiers, confronting them in such a way as to provoke a fight (particularly when they were, at first, merely pottering about their encampment), and then leaving without apparently carrying out any kind of follow-up investigation represents a display of competence for the Jedi in the peacekeeping-and-investigating role. In fact, Luceno's novel describes the incident as "an ultimately hopeless confrontation" for the Jedi, one that Darth Plagueis apparently engineered specifically to push Dooku towards disenchantment with the Jedi as a whole:

View attachment 1588458

Apparently, the Jedi High Council is only too happy to play (obliviously) along in furthering the process of Dooku's alienation via their complacency and incompetence:

View attachment 1588464

As for a "symbol" of "Mandalorian badassery," that's pretty much what Open Seasons was written to do in the first place: depict Jango Fett as the ultimate Mandalorian badass:

View attachment 1588478

It must be exhausting, being so angry.

Again, the comic doesn't show the full size of the Mando army, because IT FOCUSES ON JANGO FETT.

If there were only 17 Mandos on Galidraan, it wouldn't warrant a response from the Jedi Order outside of maybe one or two Jedi being sent. The Trade Federation blockaded Naboo, and the Jedi sent TWO guys to settle the matter and help the Queen defeat/talk down the Trade Federation. Would they really send a strike force of Jedi to defeat 17 Mandalorians? Whereas sending dozens of Jedi to defeat 300 Mandos does make some semblance of sense, since the Jedi do remember the Mandalorians as a threat from the past, and there's at least several hundreds of them.

Also, you want to talk about Open Seasons' portrayal of the Mandalorians?



Mandalorians in Open Seasons go down like flies. As if they were fucking Stormtroopers. Their beskar armor might as well be paper-mache.

The comic focuses on JANGO FETT being the badass, while making every other no-name Mandalorian mook look like an expendable goon, which includes Jaster Mereel, their former leader before Jango took over.

In that comic, Jango was also portrayed to be the idiot who started the massacre at Galidraan by opening fire at the Jedi:



So the Jedi can't be blamed for what happened at Galidraan. All they did was answer a 9-11 call, show up at the place, and the Mandos started shooting at them. It's as I said before: I don't care what galaxy you come from, a man shoots at you, you kill him.

And throughout the battle, if we only look at what the comic shows us, less than a dozen Jedi died:



So this isn't a case of the Mandos being so badass they took down plenty of Jedi, when in both cases, less Jedi died when compared to the Mandalorians. And if we focus only on what the comic shows us, the "battle" of Galidraan might as well have been nothing more but a backyard brawl. Not a showcasing of how badass Mandalorians are, but a backyard brawl where one Mando posed a threat to the Jedi, while the rest got slaughtered like pigs.

And of course, the same canon that has that comic has the Bounty Hunter game, which had Komari Vosa, Dooku's pupil (the "loudmouth" that Jango wanted to shoot in the comic) say this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4062PFnhqhw&t

Komari Vosa: "Ah, the blast helmet of a Mandalore warrior. Something I've not seen since I was a Jedi. I must have cut down 20 of your kind myself."

And no, you can't count Open Seasons as canon yet relegate the Bounty Hunter game as non-canon, especially since the latter covers the contest that Jango won that had him selected as the clone template, the resolution of his rivalry with Montross that started in Open Seasons, and the explanation as to why Zam Wessel was working with Jango Fett.

So obviously, there were more than 20 Mandalorians on Galidraan, considering that a Jedi PADAWAN cut down 20 of them herself in that battle.

So no, you're picking and choosing which parts of the comic count and which ones don't. Which goes how disingenuous your argument is.

If anything, the whole "300 Mandalorians" argument makes the Mandos look better. 300 Mandalorians died, but dozens of Jedi died as well. As opposed to less than a dozen Jedi dying TO ONE MAN while the entirety of the Mandalorians got their clocks cleaned by the Jedi. The former makes the Mandalorians as a whole seem tough despite losing hundreds, while the latter makes Jango look badass while the rest of the Mandos look like rookie Stormtroopers.

And again, the Jedi have proven their mettle in leading men to war, as even Republic officials can attest:

https://web.archive.org/web/20091025123730/http://www.holonetnews.com/47/news/13314_2.html
"Relying on Planetary Security or Sector Forces is a stop-gap solution, as the inefficiencies of the Stark Hyperspace War so painfully demonstrated. The solution is obvious -- a unified military coordinated from Coruscant. Our ancient history has proven this has time and again -- the Great Sith War, the Kanz Disorders, the Virujansi Uprising -- times when a unified Republic Navy and Army were strong. And now, as then, there is still a role for the Jedi in today's galaxy: leading an army to victory."

-Republic Judicial Terrinald Screed, arguing for a unified Republic Army and Navy, Holonet News Point/Counterpoint on the Military Creation Act

Republic military officers wouldn't be begging Jedi to lead armies if they suck at it. The only reason Finis Valorum was iffy about Jedi being generals is because they had no army. Something which Jango, Dooku, and the Kaminoans have solved by creating a clone slave army for the Republic to use.

And of course, if Karen Traviss was right about the clone trooper numbers, the Jedi managed to hold off quintillions of battle droids (the size of the CIS droid army according to the Episode III Incredible Cross Sections) with just 3.2 million clone troopers. Damn, that makes the Jedi Generals out to be the greatest military masterminds in the galaxy's history! Geez, I didn't know she was THAT much of a Jedi fan! XD

 

[Shroom King]

My man, when you quote a shitload of posts to sperg about Traviss, Mandalorians and Halsey you should be putting it all in spoiler tabs. It's taking up half the page.

Speaking of sperging about Traviss, I remember the absolute shitstorm from the fanbase over the 3 million. In one of Traviss' books she said the Clone Army was only 3 million soldiers.

I miss the old days when shit like that was the "worst thing to happen" to Star Wars.

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

Speaking of sperging about Traviss, I remember the absolute shitstorm from the fanbase over the 3 million. In one of Traviss' books she said the Clone Army was only 3 million soldiers.

I miss the old days when shit like that was the "worst thing to happen" to Star Wars.

The term that was used in episode 2 was unit which since the clones are military most people assumed the term was in reference to military units which meaning that the clone army was either 3.2 million companies, 3.2 million batallions, or 3.2 million regiments which are definitely large enough numbers to fight a galaxy spanning war. a force of 3.2 million soldiers is definitely a formidable one but its nowhere near enough to fight a war on a galactic scale. I think Filoni also had the same misconception of units= individual troopers because of that one arc in season 3 where Kamino lobbies for more funding

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The term that was used in episode 2 was unit which since the clones are military most people assumed the term was in reference to military units which meaning that the clone army was either 3.2 million companies, 3.2 million batallions, or 3.2 million regiments which are definitely large enough numbers to fight a galaxy spanning war. a force of 3.2 million soldiers is definitely a formidable one but its nowhere near enough to fight a war on a galactic scale. I think Filoni also had the same misconception of units= individual troopers because of that one arc in season 3 where Kamino lobbies for more funding

Considering that the CIS droid army numbers in the quintillions according to the Episode III Incredible Cross Sections, the word "unit" probably means military unit/company/battalion/regiment. Either that, or the Jedi generals must be master strategists who can put Sun Tzu and Zhuge Liang to shame for being able to hold off quintillions of battle droids with a mere 3.2 million clone troopers.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

The term that was used in episode 2 was unit which since the clones are military most people assumed the term was in reference to military units which meaning that the clone army was either 3.2 million companies, 3.2 million batallions, or 3.2 million regiments which are definitely large enough numbers to fight a galaxy spanning war. a force of 3.2 million soldiers is definitely a formidable one but its nowhere near enough to fight a war on a galactic scale.

Did Lucas ever make a statement on the controversy one way or the other?

I think Filoni also had the same misconception of units= individual troopers because of that one arc in season 3 where Kamino lobbies for more funding

To be fair, referring to individual Clone Troopers as "units" emphasizes their dehumanization as mass-produced living war-machines.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Did Lucas ever make a statement on the controversy one way or the other?

To be fair, referring to individual Clone Troopers as "units" emphasizes their dehumanization as mass-produced living war-machines.

No he did not. Lucas was very aloof when it came to specifics, letting other authors handle that by-the-numbers part of the saga.

No shit. The Kaminoans do not see the clones as individuals, more like products. They see the clones the same way Toyota sees its cars, or the way Monsanto sees its bananas. But since they were talking about an army, I highly doubt they saw a single clone as a unit, they were probably talking about it in a military sense, as in military units and so forth. Otherwise, the Jedi Generals managed to hold off quintillions of battle droids with 3.2 million clone troopers, making them the greatest military minds in science fiction history. And I highly doubt even the biggest Jedi fanboy would see them as such. Even those who see them as great generals would be hard-pressed to swallow such a feat.

 

[Adamska]

-snip-

And here's an end to it. I see no point in further discussion and will not be continuing this dialogue past this final response, since I've made my points effectively enough several times over now, and the arguments are at this point merely going in circles and turning on increasingly-autistic points of distinction. I will not, however, say that this has been a complete waste of time, since the research that I did while composing this last response revealed that John Jackson Miller, Drew Karpyshyn, the TORtanic writing crew and other LFL-affiliated authors were all faithfully incorporating Karen Traviss's Mando lore into their stories (even after Filoni's Mandalorians began appearing in TCW, interestingly), so that's something to think about, at least.

So you lied about leaving, made up pretending you had other things to do, and just want to desperately pick on people you think are weaker rhetoricians because you knew you couldn't "win" an argument with IMPERATOR, but desperately want that last word with a person you think would let sleeping dogs lie, since you desperately want to control the argument in a way that allows you to "finish" it.

Jesus, no wonder you idolize the scumbag responsible for the deaths of his entire unit and the slavery of himself by the billions to Sheev and the republic if this is how low you'll go.

Reminder that this all started because I called Disney desperate for wanting to use Boba Fett to bolster the Mandalorian and this idiot didn't want to believe that due to having the exact same mindset that Asokafags have with their character; instantly change tone and defend product due to the slight gibs handed to them. Hell, he denied Disney's "lore masters" obvious statements; that until they needed money, they left him canonically dead by stripping the EU. But then you know he goalshifts on that by now.

 

[BR55]

Which official sources, exactly? All of the sources that deal with the incident in greater depth than "the True Mandalorians were wiped out" do not provide a specific number for the size of Jango's force, so far as I'm aware. As I said previously, if I somehow missed a noteworthy contradiction/exception, I'd be pleased if someone could point it out.

Actually, I'm counting living Mandos.

This is the largest number that's ever seen together in one panel in the book:

View attachment 1588848

The artwork for Open Seasons, which is the original and by far the most detailed account of Galidraan, never provides any basis to suppose that the Mandalorians outnumbered the Jedi by any significant margin if at all, and if anything, depicts more Jedi than Mandalorian casualties, with the obvious implication that Haden Blackman's authorial intent was for the incident to represent a terrible loss of life for both sides (unless you want to argue that he had no input on the visuals that artist Ramon Bachs was supplying). The disparity with later, more vague accounts of what went down seems to have originated from later authors taking Komari Vosa's statement from the Star Wars: Bounty Hunter game about killing 20 Mandalorians at face value, rather than as a product of her fractured and broken psyche (Vosa having by that point been tortured to insanity by the Bando Gora cult), the latter being a simpler, less conflict-causing explanation.

No, it's specifically invoked by Valorum in Luceno's Darth Plagueis as an example of why the Jedi should not be deployed on military operations:

View attachment 1588816

Borodino is actually the better comparison, being a Pyrrhic victory for the French army which eventually lead to its destruction.

It's quite a a stretch to argue that chasing down the wrong group of soldiers, confronting them in such a way as to provoke a fight (particularly when they were, at first, merely pottering about their encampment), and then leaving without apparently carrying out any kind of follow-up investigation represents a display of competence for the Jedi in the peacekeeping-and-investigating role. In fact, Luceno's novel describes the incident as "an ultimately hopeless confrontation" for the Jedi, one that Darth Plagueis apparently engineered specifically to push Dooku towards disenchantment with the Jedi as a whole:

View attachment 1588812

Apparently, the Jedi High Council is only too happy to play (obliviously) along in furthering the process of Dooku's alienation via their complacency and incompetence:

View attachment 1588808

As for a "symbol" of "Mandalorian badassery," that's pretty much what Open Seasons was written to do in the first place: depict Jango Fett as the ultimate Mandalorian badass:

View attachment 1588802

It must be exhausting, being so angry.

Again, the comic doesn't show the full size of the Mando army, because IT FOCUSES ON JANGO FETT.

If there were only 17 Mandos on Galidraan, it wouldn't warrant a response from the Jedi Order outside of maybe one or two Jedi being sent. The Trade Federation blockaded Naboo, and the Jedi sent TWO guys to settle the matter and help the Queen defeat/talk down the Trade Federation. Would they really send a strike force of Jedi to defeat 17 Mandalorians? Whereas sending dozens of Jedi to defeat 300 Mandos does make some semblance of sense, since the Jedi do remember the Mandalorians as a threat from the past, and there's at least several hundreds of them.

Also, you want to talk about Open Seasons' portrayal of the Mandalorians?

View attachment 1588626View attachment 1588629View attachment 1588630

Mandalorians in Open Seasons go down like flies. As if they were fucking Stormtroopers. Their beskar armor might as well be paper-mache.

The comic focuses on JANGO FETT being the badass, while making every other no-name Mandalorian mook look like an expendable goon, which includes Jaster Mereel, their former leader before Jango took over.

In that comic, Jango was also portrayed to be the idiot who started the massacre at Galidraan by opening fire at the Jedi:

View attachment 1588648

So the Jedi can't be blamed for what happened at Galidraan. All they did was answer a 9-11 call, show up at the place, and the Mandos started shooting at them. It's as I said before: I don't care what galaxy you come from, a man shoots at you, you kill him.

And throughout the battle, if we only look at what the comic shows us, less than a dozen Jedi died:

View attachment 1588650View attachment 1588653View attachment 1588654View attachment 1588661View attachment 1588664View attachment 1588665View attachment 1588666

So this isn't a case of the Mandos being so badass they took down plenty of Jedi, when in both cases, less Jedi died when compared to the Mandalorians. And if we focus only on what the comic shows us, the "battle" of Galidraan might as well have been nothing more but a backyard brawl. Not a showcasing of how badass Mandalorians are, but a backyard brawl where one Mando posed a threat to the Jedi, while the rest got slaughtered like pigs.

And of course, the same canon that has that comic has the Bounty Hunter game, which had Komari Vosa, Dooku's pupil (the "loudmouth" that Jango wanted to shoot in the comic) say this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4062PFnhqhw&t

Komari Vosa: "Ah, the blast helmet of a Mandalore warrior. Something I've not seen since I was a Jedi. I must have cut down 20 of your kind myself."

And no, you can't count Open Seasons as canon yet relegate the Bounty Hunter game as non-canon, especially since the latter covers the contest that Jango won that had him selected as the clone template, the resolution of his rivalry with Montross that started in Open Seasons, and the explanation as to why Zam Wessel was working with Jango Fett.

So obviously, there were more than 20 Mandalorians on Galidraan, considering that a Jedi PADAWAN cut down 20 of them herself in that battle.

So no, you're picking and choosing which parts of the comic count and which ones don't. Which goes how disingenuous your argument is.

If anything, the whole "300 Mandalorians" argument makes the Mandos look better. 300 Mandalorians died, but dozens of Jedi died as well. As opposed to less than a dozen Jedi dying TO ONE MAN while the entirety of the Mandalorians got their clocks cleaned by the Jedi. The former makes the Mandalorians as a whole seem tough despite losing hundreds, while the latter makes Jango look badass while the rest of the Mandos look like rookie Stormtroopers.

And again, the Jedi have proven their mettle in leading men to war, as even Republic officials can attest:

https://web.archive.org/web/20091025123730/http://www.holonetnews.com/47/news/13314_2.html
"Relying on Planetary Security or Sector Forces is a stop-gap solution, as the inefficiencies of the Stark Hyperspace War so painfully demonstrated. The solution is obvious -- a unified military coordinated from Coruscant. Our ancient history has proven this has time and again -- the Great Sith War, the Kanz Disorders, the Virujansi Uprising -- times when a unified Republic Navy and Army were strong. And now, as then, there is still a role for the Jedi in today's galaxy: leading an army to victory."

-Republic Judicial Terrinald Screed, arguing for a unified Republic Army and Navy, Holonet News Point/Counterpoint on the Military Creation Act

Republic military officers wouldn't be begging Jedi to lead armies if they suck at it. The only reason Finis Valorum was iffy about Jedi being generals is because they had no army. Something which Jango, Dooku, and the Kaminoans have solved by creating a clone slave army for the Republic to use.

And of course, if Karen Traviss was right about the clone trooper numbers, the Jedi managed to hold off quintillions of battle droids (the size of the CIS droid army according to the Episode III Incredible Cross Sections) with just 3.2 million clone troopers. Damn, that makes the Jedi Generals out to be the greatest military masterminds in the galaxy's history! Geez, I didn't know she was THAT much of a Jedi fan! XD

Just refer to Imperators quote for most of my rebuttal but a few things first.
Again "official" refers to Leeland Chee the man in charge of continuity before Disney.
You can't get any more official than that.
2. You're moving the goalposts again.
If you want to depict Galidraan as a political debacle that would be entirely fair and probably straight from the text.
But that's not what you were originally arguing.
"Glaidraan as one of the great military disasters in history"
^That is a direct quote from you.
And as multiple people have pointed out the True Mandalorians got annihilated.
Two-three dozen Jedi for about 300 Mandalorians is an amazing casualty ratio no matter how you slice it.
I used Borodino as an example of what Galidraan isn't for a reason.
Napolean failed to destroy the Russian army and suffered roughly equal casualties.
Capturing Moscow then did nothing to end the war and he was forced to embark on his infamous retreat to the Rhine.
Galidraan is like the Tet Offensive or the Battle of Mogadishu.
The Tet Offensive was utterly crushed.
The Viet Cong were a shell of themselves afterward and the NVA divisions involved were chewed up.
But that's not how the press fucks back home chose to spin it.
Gothic Serpent in all honesty should have been a catastrophe but the task force wasn't destroyed, captured their targets, and killed hundreds of Somalis for only 19 Americans.
But it was still an utter embarrassment for the Clinton Administration and helped to kill the UN mission in Somalia.
I shouldn't have to point out why Galidraan is more like the latter two than the former.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Just refer to Imperators quote for most of my rebuttal but a few things first.
Again "official" refers to Leeland Chee the man in charge of continuity before Disney.
You can't get any official than that.
2. You're moving the goalposts again.
If you want to depict Galidraan as a political debacle that would be entirely fair and probably straight from the text.
But that's not what you were originally arguing.
"Glaidraan as one of the great military disasters in history"
^That is a direct quote from you.
And as multiple people have pointed out the True Mandalorians got annihilated.
Two-three dozen Jedi for about 300 Mandalorians is an amazing casualty ratio no matter how you slice it.
I used Borodino as an example of what Galidraan isn't for a reason.
Napolean failed to destroy the Russian army and suffered roughly equal casualties.
Capturing Moscow then did nothing to end the war and he was forced to embark on his infamous retreat to the Rhine.
Galidraan is like the Tet Offensive or the Battle of Mogadishu.
The Tet Offensive was utterly crushed.
The Viet Cong were a shell of themselves afterward and the NVA divisions involved were chewed up.
But that's not how the press fucks back home chose to spin it.
Gothic Serpent in all honesty should have been a catastrophe but the task force wasn't destroyed, captured their targets, and killed hundreds of Somalis for only 19 Americans.
But it was still an utter embarrassment for the Clinton Administration and helped to kill the UN mission in Somalia.
I shouldn't have to point out why Galidraan is more like the latter two than the former.

If we only stick to what we see in the Open Seasons comic as Sneer told us, then there's even less Jedi deaths in Galidraan. In the panels, we see nothing but less than 10 Jedi dead at a time, most of whom died to Jango Fett, while the rest of the Mandalorians got eradicated by the Jedi.



That doesn't make Galidraan a military disaster for the Jedi. It's the equivalent of a backyard brawl. More Jedi died in the Geonosis Arena in Episode II, and you don't see Jedi whining about how the Battle of Geonosis was a disaster-they even considered it a victory by the end of the day. So I don't see where this whole "Galidraan was a major disaster for the Jedi" thing comes from, especially since if we focus only on the panels and drop the whole "300 Mandos vs. dozens of Jedi" thing, it's basically the equivalent of a drunken bar brawl where some guys got killed. The explanation that there were 300 Mandalorians vs. dozens of Jedi at Galidraan makes the Mandalorians look more formidable, as they lost 300 guys but killed dozens of Jedi. But if we stick to only what we see at the comic, the Mandalorians look utterly pathetic and only Jango looks somewhat strong. Which dispels the whole "Mandos can kill Jedi" idea, since only ONE Mando managed to kill Jedi while the rest got slaughtered like pigs before the feast.

So you lied about leaving, made up pretending you had other things to do, and just want to desperately pick on people you think are weaker rhetoricians because you knew you couldn't "win" an argument with IMPERATOR, but desperately want that last word with a person you think would let sleeping dogs lie, since you desperately want to control the argument in a way that allows you to "finish" it.

Jesus, no wonder you idolize the scumbag responsible for the deaths of his entire unit and the slavery of himself by the billions to Sheev and the republic if this is how low you'll go.

Reminder that this all started because I called Disney desperate for wanting to use Boba Fett to bolster the Mandalorian and this idiot didn't want to believe that due to having the exact same mindset that Asokafags have with their character; instantly change tone and defend product due to the slight gibs handed to them. Hell, he denied Disney's "lore masters" obvious statements; that until they needed money, they left him canonically dead by stripping the EU. But then you know he goalshifts on that by now.

Disney and their Star Wars story group, right now, are EXACTLY the kind of people who would revive Boba Fett, only to have him lose to a "STRONG EMPOWERED WOMAN" like Ahsoka. Remember that this is the same Disney who had Han look at Rey with favor, the same Disney who had Rey beat Luke in a stickfight while the latter was acting like a pussy coward. I wouldn't put it beyond them to have Boba Fett get his butt kicked so they can shill Ahsoka or Din Djarin, the latter of which would be hilarious since Djarin is a member of the Death Watch group. It'd be funny to see the last of the "True Mandalorians" get his can kicked by a Death Watch man who is the new star of the show.

 

[Adamska]

If we only stick to what we see in the Open Seasons comic as Sneer told us, then there's even less Jedi deaths in Galidraan. In the panels, we see nothing but less than 10 Jedi dead at a time, most of whom died to Jango Fett, while the rest of the Mandalorians got eradicated by the Jedi.

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That doesn't make Galidraan a military disaster for the Jedi. It's the equivalent of a backyard brawl. More Jedi died in the Geonosis Arena in Episode II, and you don't see Jedi whining about how the Battle of Geonosis was a disaster-they even considered it a victory by the end of the day. So I don't see where this whole "Galidraan was a major disaster for the Jedi" thing comes from, especially since if we focus only on the panels and drop the whole "300 Mandos vs. dozens of Jedi" thing, it's basically the equivalent of a drunken bar brawl where some guys got killed.

It was only a disaster in the sense that they likely had some feeling in the force that the pointless bloodshed could have been prevented. I know I'd feel bad if I felt on some level that the pointless deaths of dozens could've been avoided somehow. The comparison to Gothic Serpent seems about right to me on this one; it was tactically a crushing victory, but was still a diplomatic cock-up that made the Jedi regret it due to it not going the way they hoped for.

Disney right now is EXACTLY the kind of people who would revive Boba Fett, only to have him lose to a "STRONG EMPOWERED WOMAN" like Ahsoka. Remember that this is the same Disney who had Han look at Rey with favor, the same Disney who had Rey beat Luke in a stickfight while the latter was acting like a pussy coward. I wouldn't put it beyond them to have Boba Fett get his butt kicked so they can shill Ahsoka or Din Djarin, the latter of which would be hilarious since Djarin is a member of the Death Watch group. It'd be funny to see the last of the "True Mandalorians" get his can kicked by a Death Watch man who is the new star of the show.

Yeah. I'd predict a yeeting by the redhead myself on this one, though Asoka doing it to make Filoni scream himself with joy over his sue OC would also not be out of the cards. It's delusional to think that after the demolition of every other single character and faction in the OT that this would be an exception.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It was only a disaster in the sense that they likely had some feeling in the force that the pointless bloodshed could have been prevented. I know I'd feel bad if I felt on some level that the pointless deaths of dozens could've been avoided somehow. The comparison to Gothic Serpent seems about right to me on this one; it was tactically a crushing victory, but was still a diplomatic cock-up that made the Jedi regret it due to it not going the way they hoped for.

Yeah. I'd predict a yeeting by the redhead myself on this one, though Asoka doing it to make Filoni scream himself with joy over his sue OC would also not be out of the cards. It's delusional to think that after the demolition of every other single character and faction in the OT that this would be an exception.

Basically. The Jedi were more affected by the political implications of Galidraan instead of the actual number of losses. Heck, these are the same people who saw the First Battle of Geonosis as a victory, and many more Jedi died that day. Must've been in the hundreds, but the Jedi saw it as a victory nonetheless.

Every main character from the OT generation has been sidelined, disgraced, or killed off by the new era of Star Wars. I wouldn't be surprised either if Fett only makes a comeback specifically because they want someone to kill/humiliate him. Whether it's Din Djarin or Ahsoka Tano, I don't know yet. But it's humiliating either way: with the former, Boba Fett, the heir to the True Mandalorians, gets killed by a Death Watch man, the sworn enemy of the True Mandalorians. With the latter, it's strong wahmen Jedi who puts him down. I wouldn't be that shocked if the latter happened, but the former has implications in Mando culture and history, too.

 

[BR55]

It was only a disaster in the sense that they likely had some feeling in the force that the pointless bloodshed could have been prevented. I know I'd feel bad if I felt on some level that the pointless deaths of dozens could've been avoided somehow. The comparison to Gothic Serpent seems about right to me on this one; it was tactically a crushing victory, but was still a diplomatic cock-up that made the Jedi regret it due to it not going the way they hoped for.

If anything Galidraan is best described as a weird combination of the Battle of Mogadishu and the Waco Siege.
Tactically, operationally and casualty wise it's a smashing success...But it's also a political cluster fuck and a major embarrassment to the government i.e Gothic Serpent.
However the mission was launched on shaky grounds and to many outside observers looks more like sanctioned murder by a corrupt government then an act of necessary law enforcement i.e Waco.
Sneer of course would have you believe it's the Jedi Charge of the Light Brigade with a pinch of Asculum thrown in for good measure.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Disney and their Star Wars story group, right now, are EXACTLY the kind of people who would revive Boba Fett, only to have him lose to a "STRONG EMPOWERED WOMAN" like Ahsoka.

I would count on them doing this anyway, as penance for having Boba Fett kill an "innocent doe-eyed POC womyn who did nothing wrong" in the latest Bounty Hunters comic.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I would count on them doing this anyway, as penance for having Boba Fett kill an "innocent doe-eyed POC womyn who did nothing wrong" in the latest Bounty Hunters comic.

That might be them setting up as to WHY Boba Fett has to go down. Maybe a friend of that POC woman would hire Din Djarin to kill Boba Fett, or maybe that friend will cry before Ahsoka Tano that Boba Fett wronged them, and Ahsoka comes to take Fett's head.

 

[Cactuar King]

So the Jedi can't be blamed for what happened at Galidraan. All they did was answer a 9-11 call, show up at the place, and the Mandos started shooting at them. It's as I said before: I don't care what galaxy you come from, a man shoots at you, you kill him.

Clearly Galidraan was just a peaceful protest and the Mandos dindu nuffin. Mando Lives Matter, AJAB.