TheAmbiguousLurker
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
Isn't the Undead Player an unwilling soul revived against their will and basically strong armed into the horde?
Jerry Peet / Lily Orchard / Lily Peet / Valkyrstudios / Bhaalspawn / Tara Callie / "Mod Ebara" - Sociopath writer of pedophile fanfiction and cartoon reviews, faked getting raped to force a divorce, then mobbed and gaslit their ex off Tumblr, satanist neoliberal of the MovieSlob variety, also wants to fuck dogs and/or pokemon
- Thread starter chadmuska
- Start date
Ego aside, I think the reason Lily keeps writing characters as being super powerful is that she likes the idea of a favorite character of her's being "The Strongest Ever" but has no idea of how to go about writing them, like a person who likes the idea of writing a romance but has never been in a serious relationship or done any research on romantic partnerships in their life. Lily has shown that the extent of her knowledge in regards to adventure stories (A.K.A The Heroes Journey) is from childrens cartoons and video games, both are mediums where the protagonist is usually depicted as a super powerful badass 95% of the time. and but even in those mediums the characters usually have to work for their victory, but Lily seems to ignore this. I think it's because the most satisfying parts of those mediums (or most in fact) are when the protagonist succeeds against the antagonist or the obstacle in their path. so Lily just throws that in victory while paying little to no mind to the struggles a character had to go through to make those victories worthwhile in the end, because the heroes victory is what makes her feel good, so for her, that's all she wants.
I want to say that Lily's problem is that she doesn't really know how to write action characters, but I think it's more like she just doesn't want to be bothered. The struggles and trials of romance interest her, so she's glad to write all about those. She loves the drama, the heartache, the cutsie scenes, and the passionate kiss between two lovers when they overcome a roadblock in their relationship. Action, on the other hand, well, while I believe Lily does like it to an extent (or at least the part where a hero she likes or can relate to kicks ass), I don't think she particularly enjoys writing about it. She enjoys building an enemy as a pure evil mega badass and then having her heroes demolish them and look good while doing it. She'll thrown in some angst in a backstory here and there to give a character better motivation to kill the bad guy for drama's sake, but not much else. The tension of seeing a character struggling to over come a challenge or seeing how several established character work together and seeing their strengths cover each others weaknessess to overcome a nearly unstoppable foe seems to just be "window dressing" to her in much the same way lore is.
I could point out how all of the above apply to Anvey, Aliana, Lord Rider, and even her self-insert in her Pokemon comic, but we'd be here all day. But to give a quick example, let's look at Anevay;
- How'd she get so strong? Answer: She killed a bunch of super powerful people in her backstory and had some training from another major (canon) character.
-How strong is she? Answer: Strong enough to kill 99.99% of the people on Azaroth in a fight with super ease. She even killed some of WoW's biggest villains.
- Wait, she killed all those people, who were borderline gods, all by herself? Answer: No, she had help/ was part of a team.
- Does she have any weaknesses of flaws that affect her in combat? Answer: No, she's at least skilled in all area's. Not just competent, but able to stand with the best even in comparatively weaker areas.
-Who was her team? Answer: Doesn't matter. They're all dead now except for the one other person who shows up in the story.
-Does the loss of her allies ever weigh on her or affect how she things in the present day? Answer: Not really.
-Does her tremendous power have any affect on the plot? Answer: When I get bored and feel like flexing on The Alliance I'll throw in a scene of her slaughtering Alliance soldiers like cattle. Outside of that, no.
And I could go on, but I think my points been made. I know the point of "Lily writes these characters because she likes the immediate satisfaction they bring" has been done 100 times before, but once in a while it's fun to take a deeper look into it and theorize about it, even though I could be wildly off in my guessing.
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2017
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
She's fucking atrocious at this shit. Just focus on one inconsequential part and completely ignore the entire question because she knows she either doesn't have a good answer, or the answer would be too revealing. There is no reason for Anevay to be that fucking powerful, it's a self-insert power fantasy for her to fuck Sylvanas, but she totes it as this super deep exploration of trauma and relationships and blah blah blah. Just fucking admit what it actually is and people will stop giving you shit for it, simple as that.
very awkward
and the funny thing is that Lily actually has to write Mary Sues and is stuck in it because she always projects herself into her characters and the only reason someone doesn't just abandon or destroy her in these stories is that she is invincible, strong-willed and the biggest depressive victim of this universe at the same time
she always wins in battles and melodrama, even if her personality and actions is contradictory, making a character that covers every aspect of the story turning everyone obsolete or just a device without agency
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2020
This is a pretty minor thing, but I just want to point out that Lily has no self control about making her characters The Best At Everything
Her her goddamn pet is the best, and her ability to communicate with it is unmatched. Even twelve-year-old girls writing their first Mary Sue know enough to at least try and make her clumsy. These characters are just superpowered and amazing and it's utterly irrelevant to the genre that Lily wants to write.
I mean, I have no problem taking nigh-godly characters and exploring them as people. (And we can bring Superman back up here; I'm not a huge fan of Supes in general, but I get all warm and fuzzy when he's with Ma and Pa Kent.) But if the godly powers aren't part of their actual conflict, why include it except for ego-stroking? It's important to Superman because of the dichotomy between his nigh-godly powers and his character as just being a fundamentally good, humble person. That's the core conflict of Superman-- a god who is still a man.
Why is Anevay being the best important to her story? Lily doesn't want to actually explore that, she wants to write a romance. Why is Aliana being such a powerful Sith Lord important to the story? She just wants to write cute lesbian romance. Why are her Val'kyr considered the strongest things in the multiverse? She doesn't actually write about them killing God, she just writes vignettes about Ryder's trauma and why Val'kyr society is the best. Why is comic!Lily the greatest Pokemon League Enforcer that ever enforced? It doesn't change anything about Poke-Madhouse. I think it's only even been referenced in that one-off gag in the paper about her and G creating Bonnie.
It doesn't actually help the genre that she's writing and in fact gets completely in the way. If she were doing an adventure-romance, sure, then it makes sense-- following a battle-couple who develop their relationship over the course of their battles and the war, with a greater emphasis on the relationship between the two of them. But she just keeps saying that she's only interested in writing romance or hurt-comfort, and then throwing in all this unnecessary backstory and lore for purely masturbatory purposes.
I mean I guess that's the answer to my question right there, but watching her twist in the wind to justify it is... something.
Her her goddamn pet is the best, and her ability to communicate with it is unmatched. Even twelve-year-old girls writing their first Mary Sue know enough to at least try and make her clumsy. These characters are just superpowered and amazing and it's utterly irrelevant to the genre that Lily wants to write.
I mean, I have no problem taking nigh-godly characters and exploring them as people. (And we can bring Superman back up here; I'm not a huge fan of Supes in general, but I get all warm and fuzzy when he's with Ma and Pa Kent.) But if the godly powers aren't part of their actual conflict, why include it except for ego-stroking? It's important to Superman because of the dichotomy between his nigh-godly powers and his character as just being a fundamentally good, humble person. That's the core conflict of Superman-- a god who is still a man.
Why is Anevay being the best important to her story? Lily doesn't want to actually explore that, she wants to write a romance. Why is Aliana being such a powerful Sith Lord important to the story? She just wants to write cute lesbian romance. Why are her Val'kyr considered the strongest things in the multiverse? She doesn't actually write about them killing God, she just writes vignettes about Ryder's trauma and why Val'kyr society is the best. Why is comic!Lily the greatest Pokemon League Enforcer that ever enforced? It doesn't change anything about Poke-Madhouse. I think it's only even been referenced in that one-off gag in the paper about her and G creating Bonnie.
It doesn't actually help the genre that she's writing and in fact gets completely in the way. If she were doing an adventure-romance, sure, then it makes sense-- following a battle-couple who develop their relationship over the course of their battles and the war, with a greater emphasis on the relationship between the two of them. But she just keeps saying that she's only interested in writing romance or hurt-comfort, and then throwing in all this unnecessary backstory and lore for purely masturbatory purposes.
I mean I guess that's the answer to my question right there, but watching her twist in the wind to justify it is... something.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2020
I'm not a good writer by any means (in fact i kind of suck at it) but i know how to design good characters and one of the best ways to make a good character is to use it in some form of a roleplay like DnD or something similar, that way you get to interact with other real people who also are using well fleshed out characters. This is where I think most of lily's writing falls short specifically in reference to the 'why is she writing powerful characters when she really doesnt have to'. I honestly think no one is there to curb her desire for ultra powerful characters, because if you try to do that shit in a roleplay setting you get asked to calm the fuck down or you'll just straight up get booted off.
Writing an OP character also isnt always bad in an rp setting either but it means the other people who are also roleplaying have to have characters of a similar power scale or theres no point in playing the game. I mean hell that's the core thesis of the WoW champions.
What i find to be most confusing is that Lily supposedly writes her stories with Mikala. So either Mikala is just stroking Lily's dick and saying that all her stories are amazing and not giving an ounce of criticism, or she is telling lily to tone it down and Lily gets butthurt and upset so she writes it how she wants anyway. I think its the former of the two since Mikala almost has 0 original characters of her own, if she did i doubt she would want to let lily have the only hyper demi-god being in the world as its just kind of unfair.
Writing an OP character also isnt always bad in an rp setting either but it means the other people who are also roleplaying have to have characters of a similar power scale or theres no point in playing the game. I mean hell that's the core thesis of the WoW champions.
What i find to be most confusing is that Lily supposedly writes her stories with Mikala. So either Mikala is just stroking Lily's dick and saying that all her stories are amazing and not giving an ounce of criticism, or she is telling lily to tone it down and Lily gets butthurt and upset so she writes it how she wants anyway. I think its the former of the two since Mikala almost has 0 original characters of her own, if she did i doubt she would want to let lily have the only hyper demi-god being in the world as its just kind of unfair.
- Joined
- May 28, 2018
New stream, featuring Among Us and WoW.
Bit amusing that he played a game centered on deception, blame-shifting, and backstabbing.
Bit amusing that he played a game centered on deception, blame-shifting, and backstabbing.
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TheAmbiguousLurker
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
"I think Black's a little sus."New stream, featuring Among Us and WoW.
Bit amusing that he played a game centered on deception, blame-shifting, and backstabbing.
"Why?"
"He keeps snickering about never being caught every time we have a meeting."
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2018
One of my favorite parts 6:03
Allison enters the stream
Lily: "well hello there"
Allison: "Hey Cutie"
Lily (unamused): "Hey"
Later while playing Amongus she gets discovered after using a vent and quits immediately, what a good sport.
Throughout the stream Allison and everyone else keep hitting on Lily, it's annoying. I swear everyone that orbits Lily just hits on her constantly to make her feel better about being an ugly troon.
In general Lily and her friends constantly hit on each other, I guess it's like a gay thing Idk. Lily for some reason turns every platonic relationship into a romantic one, which she says the pokemon comic is about.
They defend ILKPA frequently near the end, I don't know enough about that drama to comment but whatever.
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2017
Jerry you dense motherfucker. The writing advice is about protagonists, and it goes something like; if there's a more interesting time in their life we're not seeing why isn't that the story? Now that's not a hard and fast rule. You could tell a story about someone old and washed up looking back on their life. It all depends on the intention. But in general, the story should be taking place during the most interesting time of the protagonist's life.
Other characters in the story may have their most interesting times behind or ahead of them, but they're not the protagonist, they're not the focus, so it doesn't mean "don't give any character a back story ever" you moron. if you know how a character got to the point they're at currently you'll know their experiences, their motives and their values and they'll act accordingly, making a character who not only feels real but is easier to write.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
curious, that when it is the work of others the speech is always about making it more inclusive
but when it’s their work it’s about gatekepping as much as possible
it's never about pleasing with a quality story, is always about a narcissistic need to have everything about them
Lily already said that everything she writes comes from fanfics for fun that she posts for herself, and even admit that people are not always interested and try to please them
and if she just admitted it, it would be Ok and nobody would complain, but the problem is that she also wants to sell as the pinnacle of good writing that everyone is too dumb and / or coward to write
the problem is not her writing itself, and her attitude, lies and the denial that wants to be on a high standard but doesn't want to be judged on that standard
don't try to sell me shit like you prepared a 5 star recipe and expect me to just accept and eat
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2017
Last chapter ended with Rey proposing to Aliana.
Aliana says yes. There is crying.
We've hit what I would assume Lily would say in story is "The Climax" or somethign to that extent.
Lets remember Aliana has like 72 one night stands prior to Rey.
and then...
before anyone panics. No. There is no sex scene.
We also get this snippet about Aliana's father.
Aliana can beat the shit out of Kylo Ren with out a lightsaber, hold back hyperlasers by grabbing them with the force.
Aliana's mom regularly beat the shit out of darth vader, and was crazy inteligent, and also murdered by luke skywalker
Aliana's grandmother managed to sneak into the Jedi Temple and copied and downloaded a majority of the jedi archives to justify having wookiepedia on Aliana's ship and was also murdered by Darth Vader.
But no mary sues here.
Rey goes to see Holdo and Leia to arrange it so that no one disturbs her and Aliana's date that evening. Leia is there and is surprisingly calm for someone who just effectively had all her power stripped away from her.
Also this exchange occurs.
There's a scene with Aliana, Rey and Finn, the pair of boyfriends congratulate Aliana when she tells them the news. We also get this
For those who remember. The Sith-Jedi Marriage being referred to is Lana Beniko, and The player character from The Old Republic. Which I didn't know at the time when I covered that chapgter all the way back, and now suddenly everything becomes a milliontimes more hilarious when lily says Aliana isn't a self insert when Aliana is a descendant of presumably Lily Ochards own player character from the MMO
Anyway the chapter is solely just leading up to their date and being romantic, the chapter ends with them going to the bedroom where Aliana is going to give rey a "backrub"
Aliana says yes. There is crying.
We've hit what I would assume Lily would say in story is "The Climax" or somethign to that extent.
Lets remember Aliana has like 72 one night stands prior to Rey.
and then...
before anyone panics. No. There is no sex scene.
We also get this snippet about Aliana's father.
Aliana can beat the shit out of Kylo Ren with out a lightsaber, hold back hyperlasers by grabbing them with the force.
Aliana's mom regularly beat the shit out of darth vader, and was crazy inteligent, and also murdered by luke skywalker
Aliana's grandmother managed to sneak into the Jedi Temple and copied and downloaded a majority of the jedi archives to justify having wookiepedia on Aliana's ship and was also murdered by Darth Vader.
But no mary sues here.
Rey goes to see Holdo and Leia to arrange it so that no one disturbs her and Aliana's date that evening. Leia is there and is surprisingly calm for someone who just effectively had all her power stripped away from her.
Also this exchange occurs.
There's a scene with Aliana, Rey and Finn, the pair of boyfriends congratulate Aliana when she tells them the news. We also get this
For those who remember. The Sith-Jedi Marriage being referred to is Lana Beniko, and The player character from The Old Republic. Which I didn't know at the time when I covered that chapgter all the way back, and now suddenly everything becomes a milliontimes more hilarious when lily says Aliana isn't a self insert when Aliana is a descendant of presumably Lily Ochards own player character from the MMO
Anyway the chapter is solely just leading up to their date and being romantic, the chapter ends with them going to the bedroom where Aliana is going to give rey a "backrub"
I probably could just shorten the whole thing to "TL: DR Our protagonists finally fuck""
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2020
About half of this makes me extremely uncomfortable and the other half just makes me ask 'why?'
Maybe its because all of her characters are just her throwing herself a giant pity party and in her own made up universe people actually feel bad for her and don't see her as the narcissistic shit she actually is. All that aside though this just proves to me that Lily writes nothing but self inserts because nothing she ever writes is actually sad. What she writes is usually just 1 person says something and then the other person storms off and then they both cry even though they both wouldn't be crying if they just talked shit out like actual functioning adults. To me it just comes off as extremely boring at best and infuriating at worst.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
is less emotional manipulation and more emotional assault
Lily doesn't want you to absorb it and think about the scene, she already says how the characters feel and then another character comes and says what should be done to resolve, which is usually just to hug
the problem is not solved, they just repress it to become melodrama later and be solved in the same way again and again
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2017
actually theres a word for "A character I'm writing for is crying and now so am I what the fuck?" They have a word for it in tabletop roleplay and writing in general, and as a writer myself, I've in fact felt it. it's referred to more over as "Bleed" You write an emotionally intense moment, or a character you're pretending to be experiences hardship and you come away from it feeling as emotionally drained or angry or whatever as the character you've written for.
I am not surprised lily would not know what it is.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2020
I've actually felt this way about my own characters before, didn't know it had a name though which is super neat!
My point was more that the things lily writes aren't actually emotional though. I definitely understand feeling in-tune with your characters and their emotions because how else would you write believable characters? But lily doesn't actually write why its believable and completely leaves out why the reader should even care about what's happening in the first place.
The story where both characters end up crying at the end of chapter one I was referencing was anevays story on Ao3 (shocker i know). She essentially just gave the most basic information that anevays fiancé was turned into a forsaken and now she's going to go visit her. she never gave any details of their relationship other than how much anevay wanted to hug her fiancé. the chapter essentially ended with both of them crying and screaming because anevays now ex-fiance was like 'we cant be together im dead and you dont understand!!!11!!!11'.
If the characters had such an intense emotional connection to the point where they were engaged you would think that they would at least talk for a little bit for a deeper understanding of why they should go their separate ways. which would then elicit the proper emotional response, that being that these two women will never be what they were but for their own sake they have to part ways to start anew. While its still sad and may prompt a tear from the more emotional readers it would be the proper use of 'this is sad now but its only the beginning' i think she was trying to convey.
This more to the point is why its so painfully obvious that she writes self inserts, anevays ex-fiance broke up with her suddenly and without reason leaving anevay sad and broken even though deep down her ex-fiance still loves her. We know why lily would cry at that and lily knows why she crys at that, because its what she thinks lizzy did to her. But if you were never aware of lilys past and just happened to stumble on the fic you would be confused and probably pretty bored. What she's writing isnt sad its just melodramatic for no reason.
Son Goku Baku
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2020
There is nothing that delivers the message "I only write for myself" like announcing that you're going to stop writing all together unless you recieve enough positive reaction from people.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
why start any series just to complain about people being interested?
this is a high level of anxiety or just an excuse for losing interest and blaming the fans
"because you want it now, I don't want it anymore"
"psychic bonds must be about romance and rape with your pokemon and not about friendship and trust"
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2018
Lily Orchard's Official Tumblr, I made the mistake of trying to find …
archived 4 Oct 2020 04:20:18 UTC
Lily Orchard's Official Tumblr, Why do you hate ash Greninja? The con…
archived 4 Oct 2020 04:20:24 UTC
But also, she straight up threatened to end her work if people go on Kiwifarms.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2020
Yeah, it's not really an uncommon phenomenon. Depending on how you're writing and what perspective you're going in from you can easily wind up in the headspace of the characters that you're portraying and get yourself caught up in some unexpected emotions, especially when the scene gets away from you.
Lily, however, is basically trying to imply 'wow I'm so great and in-tune with my characters I feel their emotions! I'm such a great writer, I bet nobody's ever had this experience before, aren't I special?" No, Lily, you aren't. And given some of the circumstances in which your characters start crying...
The aggravating thing is that I know what she was going for and it could have worked if we actually knew anything about the characters. The whole vignette doesn't actually do anything as simple as a flashback, though-- it just talks at the audience about things and says over and over again how in love the two are (instead of having the confidence to step back and just show that Anevay's insistence on getting into the Forsaken stronghold already implies as much).
This kind of scene could and has worked really well when the two characters are already established. The idea of one person becoming a literal monster and trying to 'scare away' the other so as not to hurt them (or not be hurt by them) isn't a new concept, and it can be done to really great dramatic effect. The issue here is that, again, we don't know these two characters so we don't have any emotional investment in what goes on, and that the time between them seeing each other makes it feel extremely weird. If Aliena were still coming to terms with being undead (as in, her being raised and then regaining her soul had occurred relatively recently) then her demeanor would make more sense, but it's been years. If she were acting this way because she was ashamed and didn't want Anevay to think of her as an undead monster, then her response also still doesn't feel right. The whole moment felt like it was ripped from something else without actually considering the circumstances and characters, especially the part where Anevay puts a pendant on the dresser and that's what trigger's Aliena's freakout.
Which was super funny. Not the freakout, the pendant moment. The thing is, Lily basically just says 'Anevay put a pendant on the table'. Then, when Aliena picks it up, she does a hilarious short infodump about how important it was and we're supposed to feel sad.
A good writer would have started the whole scene off with Anevay in the elevator, looking at the pendant and thinking about what it means, and would have kept it present throughout the scenes in quick reminders-- "When the elevator came to a halt, she shoved the pendant into her satchel." "The Night Elves trained their bows on her. She reached into her pocket and ran her thumb over the smooth surface of the pendant. The touch of the cool metal helped calm her quickening pulse." It's not hard, we'd understand that the pendant is of extreme sentimental value even if she never explains exactly why, so when Anevay puts it down and Aliena starts flipping tables over it we'd at least have a point of reference. Instead it's basically "Anevay put down the pendant and left. Aliena turned and picked it up and started to-- WAIT, oh geez I forgot to tell you so like it's really important to them? Anyway that's why Aliena's going to start flipping out."
It's really amazing. I thought when I first came here to bitch about Lily's bad writing advice that she was just a mediocre writer with dreams of grandeur, but it turns she's just competent enough that a surface-level scan makes her look 'generic fanfiction' tier. If you actually read her stuff it becomes grossly apparent that she's legitimately bad. Foundationally bad. She had fundamental misunderstandings about a lot of aspects of the craft and legitimately thinks she's hot shit.
She is hot shit, but, like, in a more literal sense of the phrase.
It's even more petty than that. Kiwifarms has nothing to do with it; it's that somebody was trying to look up information.
They were following Lily's own advice to look up what she's said in the past and Lily got pissed off and decided this means people are 'impatient'. Of course it's just a cry for attention and forcing people to beg forgiveness for a slight that wasn't even a slight. This poor person was just trying to look for information Lily has buried somewhere on her blog (instead of asking Lily directly, because they know she doesn't like that) and they did it wrong so now everybody gets their toys taken away until everybody apologizes.
What a piece of work.