#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[VIkkiVerse]

You cannot use Media Mail for comics. If the USPS finds out you're shipping comics via a service meant to discount shipping "educational materials", they'll shut you down. It happened to us and caused a headache. But you can try to get away with it if you want.

We ship First Class, which is still fairly inexpensive. It's between $7-8 domestic. Sometimes we ship Priority.

We've found that on average, Domestic and International, we're paying around $12 to ship a comic book. That's what I tell people to consider when they're anticipating costs for their comic book.,

Media Mail can be used for books containing 8 pages. You are overpaying for shipping. Your books meet the only requirements of media mail which are that they have at least 8 pages and do not contain advertising. Mainstream comics do not meet the no advertising standard but most indie comics, including yours, do.

(DMM 173 Media Mail Rates and Eligibility for Retail Flats and Parcels .pdf)

 

[Mister Dongs]

Shane Davis and Yanzi Lin have jumped into the crowdfunding game and launched their new book. I'm guessing Shane must have been really proud of creating Dex-Starr because this just looks like what if the Lanterns were all adorable cats with a macguffin hunt thrown in. Looks cute though

In lesser-known developments, hopping onto the trend of celebrity collaborations in the vein of Sylvester Stallone's Expendables and Keanu Reeeves' BRZKR, Brand creative team Antonio Brice and Canaan White somehow landed an endorsement to crowdfund a comic about a youtuber who streams from his car reviewing drive-thru food.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/daym-drops-super-official/coming_soon

Now before dismissing this as a crowdfund for an overdetailed version of the sort of comic one would get printed on their happy meal placemat, it should be noted that "Daym Drops" has 1.33 million subscribers on his youtube channel, technically making this the biggest youtube platform to enter into a Comicsgate crowdfund project to date. As an influencer, Daym's presence is big enough to be put as spokesman for fast food chains like Burger King on nationally syndicated commercials and copromotes his new restaurant with rappers like Rick Ross. I'm not sure how Brice leveraged this other than getting into some sort of hidden whisper network of overweight bald black guys who like fast food.

On its own, the premise of the comic is bizarre enough, but who knows what sort of weird shit is going to pop with Antonio at the helm. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

 

[Least Concern]

In lesser-known developments, hopping onto the trend of celebrity-collaborations in the vein of Sylvester Stallone's Expendables and Keanu Reeeves' BRZKR, Brand creative team Antonio Brice and Canaan White somehow landed an endorsement to crowdfund a comic about a youtuber who streams from his car reviewing drive-thru food.

Huh, that's an interesting pairing. Thought it would be Review Brah at first - never heard of this Daym guy. But such is the way of the Internet now that there's probably hundreds of YouTubers with over a million subscribers that I've never heard of.

How have Brice and White been lately? Can't recall them being mentioned in this thread recently, so I can only imagine that they've managed to keep their heads down and out of the dramas du jour.

 

[Mister Dongs]

How have Brice and White been lately? Can't recall them being mentioned in this thread recently, so I can only imagine that they've managed to keep their heads down and out of the dramas du jour.

I don't follow Canaan White, but Antonio Brice has been in Comicsgate for a long time and is not as quick to burn bridges or disavow former figures in the community, having had Mitch Breitweiser and Doug TenNapel on his show for back to back interviews two weeks ago. The only person he overtly despises in Comicsgate remains "J-Money".

But the delays with fulfilling Brand #1, the failure of Brand #2 to reach its target goal and the heat death of his youtube channel are forcing him to think outside the box and this seems to be the result. I hope it does well.

 

[FROG]

Media Mail can be used for books containing 8 pages. You are overpaying for shipping. Your books meet the only requirements of media mail which are that they have at least 8 pages and do not contain advertising. Mainstream comics do not meet the no advertising standard but most indie comics, including yours, do.

(DMM 173 Media Mail Rates and Eligibility for Retail Flats and Parcels .pdf)
View attachment 1644181

Hi dummy. Media Mail is intended to ship "EDUCATIONAL MEDIA." That's why it's discounted. It's the government promoting learning and education.

"Qualified Items Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail rates: a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, ****consisting wholly of reading matter**** or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers’ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style."

Now, as a big comic book enthusiast, you'll no doubt say to the mail clerk, "BUT COMICS ARE READING MATTER." And if the postal clerk wants, they'll begin to tell you about an arcane rule, that there must be 80% words to illustrations. That's how the postal clerks determine if they want to give you this discount or not, as they OPEN YOUR MAIL WITHOUT ASKING YOU, which is also their privilege when shipping Media Mail.

Here's another thing: Media Mail has no guaranteed arrival date, unlike First Class. Media Mail is sidelined for more important mail services.

So when it comes to shipping a $25 IndieGoGo perk to a waiting customer in which they probably paid you $10 for shipping, perhaps you should go First Class or Priority.

But maybe you INSIST on being a cheapskate. You can go the Jon Del Arroz route and berate the inspector, "But this is a graphic novel containing no advertising," but as this article tells you, and as I personally experienced:

"Comic Books and Media Mail Inspection​

But will the USPS person actually check the comic book for the kind of ads it contains if the inspect the package? that is very unlikely. It is more likely that they will reject the package or charge the receiver the price difference between media mail and priority mail."

So you're basically running the risk of having your comic book turn up at the backers house POSTAGE DUE.

All because you wanted to save $3 and not use FIRST CLASS.

They don't care to make the distinction between comic with no advertising and regular comic.

This article recommends you swindle the post office by lying:

"One tip to make the USPS employee less likely to inspect your media mail is to package your comic books in a box, stamp textbook on the outside, and use a name on the label that suggests it has something to do with education and not comic books."

...Which isn't something you'd have to do if you were entitled to ship your book Media Mail.

https://multiversecomicbox.com/are-comic-books-media-mail/

 

[VIkkiVerse]

Hi dummy. Media Mail is intended to ship "EDUCATIONAL MEDIA." That's why it's discounted. It's the government promoting learning and education.

"Qualified Items Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mail rates: a. Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, ****consisting wholly of reading matter**** or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers’ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style."

Now, as a big comic book enthusiast, you'll no doubt say to the mail clerk, "BUT COMICS ARE READING MATTER." And if the postal clerk wants, they'll begin to tell you about an arcane rule, that there must be 80% words to illustrations. That's how the postal clerks determine if they want to give you this discount or not, as they OPEN YOUR MAIL WITHOUT ASKING YOU, which is also their privilege when shipping Media Mail.

Here's another thing: Media Mail has no guaranteed arrival date, unlike First Class. Media Mail is sidelined for more important mail services.

So when it comes to shipping a $25 IndieGoGo perk to a waiting customer in which they probably paid you $10 for shipping, perhaps you should go First Class or Priority.

But maybe you INSIST on being a cheapskate. You can go the Jon Del Arroz route and berate the inspector, "But this is a graphic novel containing no advertising," but as this article tells you, and as I personally experienced:

"Comic Books and Media Mail Inspection​

But will the USPS person actually check the comic book for the kind of ads it contains if the inspect the package? that is very unlikely. It is more likely that they will reject the package or charge the receiver the price difference between media mail and priority mail."

So you're basically running the risk of having your comic book turn up at the backers house POSTAGE DUE.

All because you wanted to save $3 and not use FIRST CLASS.

They don't care to make the distinction between comic with no advertising and regular comic.

This article recommends you swindle the post office by lying:

"One tip to make the USPS employee less likely to inspect your media mail is to package your comic books in a box, stamp textbook on the outside, and use a name on the label that suggests it has something to do with education and not comic books."

...Which isn't something you'd have to do if you were entitled to ship your book Media Mail.

https://multiversecomicbox.com/are-comic-books-media-mail/

You do realize I linked to the requirements, right? That everyone here can read for themselves was qualifies and see that you're full of shit? Comic books are "reading matter". Well, maybe not yours?

 

[FROG]

You do realize I linked to the requirements, right? That everyone here can read for themselves was qualifies and see that you're full of shit?

Every single thing I wrote was true, based on fact and then also personal experience. It's good advice, not for someone who might want to ship one or two comics, but for someone in business to ship thousands.

It's not what Media Mail is for, and the USPS is in business to make money. They'll return your books or ship them Postage Due if they find out.

When they say "no advertisements" it's because they don't want magazines that are educational to enjoy the discounted service. They're not even considering comic books or graphic novels. They don't see the difference and don't care, I promise.

 

[Least Concern]

Words re: media mail

So what do you say to Ya Boi who has quite publicly been shipping all of his books via media mail and doesn't seem to have had any problems? With all that he's fulfilled by now, surely at least once a postal inspector has inspected one of his packages.

 

[FROG]

So what do you say to Ya Boi who has quite publicly been shipping all of his books via media mail and doesn't seem to have had any problems? With all that he's fulfilled by now, surely at least once a postal inspector has inspected one of his packages.

I would tell him he’s either very lucky or his fans aren’t telling him. He uses a fulfillment center now. I'll ask him if they're still trying to ship Media Mail.

 

[Spectre_06]

I’m not “going to have to” do anything.

If he takes you to court--even small claims court--you'll have to "open the books" on the record and everyone will be able to see it. And God help you if he can substantiate any attempt at cooking the books or something similar in one direction or the other.

View attachment 1642428

I see why you're not a writer. If this was legitimately your idea of a "good comic book" I can guarantee you I could have a literal retard in remedial education in middle school draw up something better. This backstory is so Mary Sue that it's a joke, and quite frankly if Nasser was able to make your comic book palatable when you're handing him shit like this, he deserves every fucking penny you've made in profits. This is by far the least creative character backstory pitch I've ever seen, and I've seen my fair share of them. Hell, I had to create a few myself when I was fleshing out the novels I worked on (never published, I was too lazy).

I’ll be sure to livestream your reaction as you walk away with nothing, if you’re not made to pay damages for libel, after I hand the judge a file with my financial statements, & a fuck ton of screenshots & YouTube links, because you’re too impatient to wait.

If you're willing to hand over all this on the public record why not do it now and shut Nasser the fuck up? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching you sperg shit up while Nasser does his thing, and I love seeing @FROG run in to try to defend his literal cuck of a boyfriend from the haji, but c'mon man. If you have receipts and you can shut him up and "stop" the defamation then why don't you?

You do realize I linked to the requirements, right? That everyone here can read for themselves was qualifies and see that you're full of shit? Comic books are "reading matter". Well, maybe not yours?

He does, but there's always ways around it. If YBZ is doing it then he's probably pulling some bullshit like claiming the item is an "educational picture book". I know of a guy who shipped his graphic novel that way.

So what do you say to Ya Boi who has quite publicly been shipping all of his books via media mail and doesn't seem to have had any problems? With all that he's fulfilled by now, surely at least once a postal inspector has inspected one of his packages.

Imagine thinking any government employee is doing their job properly, let alone some poor sap in the postal inspector's office.

 

[FROG]

Donal's page rate should be established by what War Campaign paid him and what Cecil paid him.

Then he can take 48 pages worth from the profits, and they can establish a relative scripting fee for Nasser, which could be paid
immediately.

From there, divide the profits.

That seems fair to me, but I don't mind if this argument continues.

 

[Sourskittles]

You do realize I linked to the requirements, right? That everyone here can read for themselves was qualifies and see that you're full of shit? Comic books are "reading matter". Well, maybe not yours?

Here's your link: https://about.usps.com/notices/not121/not121_tech.htm

"Media Mail packages may not contain advertising. Comic books do not meet this standard. Books may contain incidental announcements of other books and sound recordings may contain incidental announcements of other sound recordings. In accordance with standards in the Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), Section 170, Media Mail packages must have a delivery address and the sender’s return address and are subject to inspection by the Postal Service™. Upon such inspection, matter not eligible for the Media Mail rate may be assessed at the proper price and sent to the recipient postage due, or the sender may be contacted for additional postage"

They specifically mention comic books.

Places like cheapgraphicnovels do ship out their hardcover omnibuses with media mail, so who knows what they're willing to let through. But if you're shipping out thousands of packages it probably not worth the headache to find out.

 

[Brother Maynard]

Donal's page rate should be established by what War Campaign paid him and what Cecil paid him.

Then he can take 48 pages worth from the profits, and they can establish a relative scripting fee for Nasser, which could be paid
immediately.

From there, divide the profits.

That seems fair to me, but I don't mind if this argument continues.

What an ass you are. You know it was always a 50/50 split for 2 years, and now you're supporting Donal stealing $ from Nasser. No wonder everyone with any ethics ran away from you as soon as they figured out what a moral degenerate you are.

 

[Absurdity]

Frog wants to force a hostile renegotiation with Nasser. The only reason this might actually work is the threat of not paying him at all without going to court, which is tangible at this point. If nothing else, it would be interesting to officially see where the money went if it did make it to court. Donal could be stalling because he genuinely doesn't have the money anymore. Either way it's impossible to tell from a KF thread.

 

[FROG]

What an ass you are. You know it was always a 50/50 split for 2 years, and now you're supporting Donal stealing $ from Nasser. No wonder everyone with any ethics ran away from you as soon as they figured out what a moral degenerate you are.

Your whole crew is dumb as fuck and it's tiresome.

There is a point at which the money is split 50/50 between Donal and Nasser.

That point comes AFTER all of the labor that is required to make the comic book, and thus the profit to be split, has been completed and paid for.

Funds need to be set aside to pay the artist(s), the writer(s), the colorist, the letterer, and the printer.

Those are jobs that need to be done. These jobs are not equal. They pay differently. Whoever does those jobs can claim those funds, because if no one does them, there is no book to profit from.

Donal drew the comic. He should collect the page rate set aside to pay the artist. Nasser should collect the writing fee.

All other jobs were done and paid for. If Nasser wanted to share half of Donal's rate for drawing the book, he should have drawn half the book, but he didn't. If Donal didn't want to draw the book, someone else would have, and they'd have paid that person as well. That PROVES your dumb 50/50 split of all of the funds notion is bullshit.

As it stands, Nasser is trying to steal Donal's money, not the other way around. I'd call you unethical, but I think you're just fucking stupid and don't realize it.

Just like Vikki's retarded Media Mail argument. Consistently dishonest and unethical.

 

[A nameless trool]

That's the Shazam bolt. Exactly. The TCB one is totally different. More lies from fatboy.

Still, if you are a comic editor and can't tell the Flash from the real Captain Marvel logo, you probably suck at your job.

 

[CapeKnight]

Still, if you are a comic editor and can't tell the Flash from the real Captain Marvel logo, you probably suck at your job.

What's funny is that she full blown got pushed into the narrative of people thinking she had a white supremacist tattoo. And had no way of defending herself other than saying it was in honor of her dog. Don't know if she wants to go the route of claiming her dog is a white supremacist in the narrative, but hey, bitch is crazy, and laughing at her is a good time.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

They specifically mention comic books.

I wonder if that is some outdated thing, from back in the days when comic books were crammed with ads for Daisy BB Guns ("The BB Gun every boy dreams about"), XRay Specs, Colecovision game consoles, etc. IIRC both Marvel and DC had subscription by mail services in the era when comics were bought at newsstands, prior to the rise of the LCS, since back then it was difficult to know what would show up for you to buy locally. I guess since they were distributed like magazines back then, the USPS took the reasonable position that that's how they should be treated for mailing purposes.

Places like cheapgraphicnovels do ship out their hardcover omnibuses with media mail,

I'm guessing if you get an ISBN and the only advertising you run in the book itself is for your own company's products (an exception to the general rule about advertising, as with "Books shipping as Media Mail may contain incidental book announcements.") there's a presumption that it is a book. Start having ads for Ax Body Wash or whatever and you lose that.

But if you're shipping out thousands of packages it probably not worth the headache to find out.

I think it can be substantially cheaper for the shipper to use, so possibly worth some headaches.

 

[VIkkiVerse]

Here's your link: https://about.usps.com/notices/not121/not121_tech.htm

"Media Mail packages may not contain advertising. Comic books do not meet this standard. Books may contain incidental announcements of other books and sound recordings may contain incidental announcements of other sound recordings. In accordance with standards in the Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), Section 170, Media Mail packages must have a delivery address and the sender’s return address and are subject to inspection by the Postal Service™. Upon such inspection, matter not eligible for the Media Mail rate may be assessed at the proper price and sent to the recipient postage due, or the sender may be contacted for additional postage"

They specifically mention comic books.

Places like cheapgraphicnovels do ship out their hardcover omnibuses with media mail, so who knows what they're willing to let through. But if you're shipping out thousands of packages it probably not worth the headache to find out.

"Media Mail packages may not contain advertising. Comic books do not meet this standard." This refers to comics do mot meet the standard of containing no advertising. If there is no advertising there is no problem.

What is at the bottom of the page you shared?

Here is a link to the USPS Domestic Mail Manual or DMM. It contains all of the rules and regulations of the US Postal Service.

There is one singe instance of the word "comic"


That single instance occurs on the page pertaining to Periodicals and refers to comic strips in magazines.



What is the characteristic of a Periodical?

"The content of the periodical may consist of original or reprinted articles on one topic or many topics, listings, photographs, illustrations, graphs, a combination of advertising and nonadvertising matter, comic strips, legal notices, editorial material, cartoons, or other subject matter."

A comic strip is a serialized sequence of horizonal images. That is NOT a comic book.

Hers are the regulations regarding RETAIL Media Mail.



What are the requirements for Retail Media Mail?

"Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers‘ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style."

A comic book is a "reading matter". It is meant to be read. In order to qualify for Media Mail it must contain at least 8 pages. It must not contain paid advertising.

Despite @FROG's claim that the contents of Media Mail must be educational, there is no such requirement.

Also Frog's claim that Media Mail doesn't have tracking is false. I have received numerous comics posted Media Mail with a tracking number.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Your whole crew is dumb as fuck and it's tiresome.

There is a point at which the money is split 50/50 between Donal and Nasser.

That point comes AFTER all of the labor that is required to make the comic book, and thus the profit to be split, has been completed and paid for.

Funds need to be set aside to pay the artist(s), the writer(s), the colorist, the letterer, and the printer.

Those are jobs that need to be done. These jobs are not equal. They pay differently. Whoever does those jobs can claim those funds, because if no one does them, there is no book to profit from.

Donal drew the comic. He should collect the page rate set aside to pay the artist. Nasser should collect the writing fee.

All other jobs were done and paid for. If Nasser wanted to share half of Donal's rate for drawing the book, he should have drawn half the book, but he didn't. If Donal didn't want to draw the book, someone else would have, and they'd have paid that person as well. That PROVES your dumb 50/50 split of all of the funds notion is bullshit.

As it stands, Nasser is trying to steal Donal's money, not the other way around. I'd call you unethical, but I think you're just fucking stupid and don't realize it.

Just like Vikki's retarded Media Mail argument. Consistently dishonest and unethical.

The 50/50 split agreement may have been dumb but that doesn't change the fact that that was their agreement.