Plagued Super Smash Bros. Community

[FeatherDuster]

some "leaks" about how Nintendo has been acting behind the scenes for tournaments
https://twitter.com/anonymoussmash2/status/1331031597647355905 (https://archive.vn/zUipV)
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srfu4r (https://archive.vn/ekTIO)
Anonymous source but it sounds like some of the more well known people like hugs are corroborating/confirming that a lot of it is true.
Basically Nintendo has made a lot of false promises bout supporting the scene (planning circuits and tournaments and then never following through) as well as just cucking a lot of big sponsored circuits by HTC, Red Bull, Twitch, etc. And apparently even cucked Smash from a few televised events.

Also apparently JC (JCDotFace) made a "facepalm emoji" tweet when some big Smash circuit was announced and then deleted his tweet shortly after? This would only be news because people thought he was a homie and was generally very positive towards the smash scene


Its not just some plug and play emulator shit. The guy reverse engineered Melee to have rollback. For every other game you have to find your own autist or use regular ol dolphin p2p

All this twitlonger boils down to is whining.

Let me go over the important parts where the writer isn't just hatejerking nintendo.

Eleague

Nintendo was currently running a tournament of sorts with it's E3 Invitational, and did not want to bring attention away from that to a melee tournament. So instead they gave Eleague permission to rebroadcast the E3 Invitational. They may also have simply not been interested in working with Eleague.

HTC

HTC is interested in running a smash tournament, however Nintendo was currently in process of making a tournament with Twitch. As any logical company would do, they did not want to bring attention away from the upcoming tournament they were making, so they offer HTC a chance to sponsor the Twitch tournament instead.

ESL

ESL is interested in running a tournament, however during this timeframe, Nintendo is not interested in running a tournament with ESL. Nintendo might have simply said no due to experience with ESL from Splatoon and ARMS, or maybe, they just weren't interested in any tournaments at this time, this may have been before Ultimate was announced, notice how the writer doesn't give a time frame for this. Also again with that "grassroots" shit. Melee tournaments aren't fucking "grassroots".

MLG

MLG runs a smash tournament, and then another smash tournament for two seperate smash games. 2015 is the date the writer later specifies that Nintendo and Twitch were working together to make a Smash 4 and Melee tournament, so Nintendo could have simply been trying to get MLG off of their backs. It's also a possibility that Nintendo just wasn't interested in working with MLG, maybe MLG did some shit to piss Nintendo off?

This timeframe was specifically when Nintendo was a lot more draconian about it's game's being broadcasted online, in 2013 the nintendo creator's program existed. This wasn't an attempt to "kill smash", this was Nintendo being over protective of it's property.

Redbull

A lot of context is left out here, why was Redbull cut out from the conversations? What work did Redbull do exactly? Redbull may have just pissed nintendo off, or left on their own, who says Redbull didn't just leave themselves? Do we have any proof Nintendo cut them off? It's all speculation, sure, but so is "nintendo cutting out redbull".

Twitch

Here's the big one.

What this basically boils down to is, Nintendo attempts to start tournament with Twitch, Nintendo announces new game, Nintendo decides to focus on new game instead of on the tournament, Nintendo continues to focus on new game and loses interest in running tournament.

---

Again, none of these were attempts to "kill smash" or even to "hurt the smash community" The writer is just so angry that Nintendo dared to focus on other things besides the Smash Bros community. He later talks about how Nintendo sent a C&D to Evo 2013, and if you remember, this was around the time Nintendo was more draconian about protecting it's properties.

The reason Big House specifically pissed off Nintendo so much, was that a tournament they had apparently previously sponsored (from what I can find anyways, may be wrong) went on to use Emulators and Roms. Something Nintendo notoriously HATES. The tournament getting a cease and desist was directly caused by it's own actions, since Melee players couldn't just wait for the pandemic to end to play a fucking 10 or 20 year old game where all they do is unfunly glitch the game the entire time instead of playing the way the developer intended. also smash bros is a fucking party game.

 

[0 0]

All this twitlonger boils down to is whining.

Let me go over the important parts where the writer isn't just hatejerking nintendo.

Eleague
View attachment 1749867
Nintendo was currently running a tournament of sorts with it's E3 Invitational, and did not want to bring attention away from that to a melee tournament. So instead they gave Eleague permission to rebroadcast the E3 Invitational. They may also have simply not been interested in working with Eleague.

HTC
View attachment 1749879
HTC is interested in running a smash tournament, however Nintendo was currently in process of making a tournament with Twitch. As any logical company would do, they did not want to bring attention away from the upcoming tournament they were making, so they offer HTC a chance to sponsor the Twitch tournament instead.

ESL
View attachment 1749881
ESL is interested in running a tournament, however during this timeframe, Nintendo is not interested in running a tournament with ESL. Nintendo might have simply said no due to experience with ESL from Splatoon and ARMS, or maybe, they just weren't interested in any tournaments at this time, this may have been before Ultimate was announced, notice how the writer doesn't give a time frame for this. Also again with that "grassroots" shit. Melee tournaments aren't fucking "grassroots".

MLG
View attachment 1749892
MLG runs a smash tournament, and then another smash tournament for two seperate smash games. 2015 is the date the writer later specifies that Nintendo and Twitch were working together to make a Smash 4 and Melee tournament, so Nintendo could have simply been trying to get MLG off of their backs. It's also a possibility that Nintendo just wasn't interested in working with MLG, maybe MLG did some shit to piss Nintendo off?

View attachment 1749900
This timeframe was specifically when Nintendo was a lot more draconian about it's game's being broadcasted online, in 2013 the nintendo creator's program existed. This wasn't an attempt to "kill smash", this was Nintendo being over protective of it's property.

Redbull
View attachment 1749903
A lot of context is left out here, why was Redbull cut out from the conversations? What work did Redbull do exactly? Redbull may have just pissed nintendo off, or left on their own, who says Redbull didn't just leave themselves? Do we have any proof Nintendo cut them off? It's all speculation, sure, but so is "nintendo cutting out redbull".

Twitch

Here's the big one.
View attachment 1749907

What this basically boils down to is, Nintendo attempts to start tournament with Twitch, Nintendo announces new game, Nintendo decides to focus on new game instead of on the tournament, Nintendo continues to focus on new game and loses interest in running tournament.

---

Again, none of these were attempts to "kill smash" or even to "hurt the smash community" The writer is just so angry that Nintendo dared to focus on other things besides the Smash Bros community. He later talks about how Nintendo sent a C&D to Evo 2013, and if you remember, this was around the time Nintendo was more draconian about protecting it's properties.

The reason Big House specifically pissed off Nintendo so much, was that a tournament they had apparently previously sponsored (from what I can find anyways, may be wrong) went on to use Emulators and Roms. Something Nintendo notoriously HATES. The tournament getting a cease and desist was directly caused by it's own actions, since Melee players couldn't just wait for the pandemic to end to play a fucking 10 or 20 year old game where all they do is unfunly glitch the game the entire time instead of playing the way the developer intended. also smash bros is a fucking party game.

People posting these Twitlonger things is like the legal equivalent of an internet tough guy threatening to assault people from my perspective. It's all talk and posturing intermixed with whining, but these things simply would not hold any weight if they tried to take action on it. They'll throw these inane rants up into the air and forget completely about it in a week or two, because it's easy to speak your piece and bail rather than do anything about what's causing you grief.

Everyone getting cancelled for being a sex pest a few months ago was a mess, but at least something developed from it. Yes, events got shut down or swapped hands and a lot of people were booted out, but people did something. As for the current fiasco, I'm not implying they're doing this to impress anybody, but I'm not moved by people typing a high school essay before dropping off the face of the Earth. So what if Nintendo did things which hurt the Melee community? What are you going to do about it? Boycott them? I guarantee these people would do an instant 180 the moment Nintendo sponsored some random other Melee tournament or released a port of the game. Otherwise, they'll go back to playing the same game the rest of the world has moved on from for nearly two decades.

 

[José Mourinho]

As for the current fiasco, I'm not implying they're doing this to impress anybody, but I'm not moved by people typing a high school essay before dropping off the face of the Earth. So what if Nintendo did things which hurt the Melee community? What are you going to do about it? Boycott them? I guarantee these people would do an instant 180 the moment Nintendo sponsored some random other Melee tournament or released a port of the game. Otherwise, they'll go back to playing the same game the rest of the world has moved on from for nearly two decades.

It's the same shit they kept on sperging about for past few years. The best parts are when they use the same buzzwords such as "anti-consumer" or "passionate fans" or "Nintendo is jealous someone made a better service" (lolwat) or any other horseshit, and when you accuse them of such even with examples, they'll just screech "strawman" or "I never see such examples as such" to pretend it doesn't happen because it makes them look bad. And after that nothing happened and business goes on as usual. They didn't even do a good job at even trying to spread the awareness either especially that recent Nintendo YouTube videos weren't even mass disliked as a result.

If they want to sperg about how Nintendo is anti-consumer, at least point out actual shitty practices like limited time promotions for certain games, their meh quality of the Mario 3D Collection compared with other collection games, or paying for a piss poor Online service. But nah, let's screech about a tournament that got cease & desist by Nintendo for not even having permission (which they actually stated so) to use an emulator (which even though isn't illegal, true, if this is taken to court, it's still a very low chance for Nintendo to even lose in a lawsuit due to multiple other reasons) and acting like "It's a pandemic, so it's fine anyway".

 

[MooseGump]

https://twitter.com/SavedYouAClickV/status/1332905779008053249?s=19

Gimmick account decides to do a quirky and make some profits from the shitshow lol

If you look at his store he's selling stuff taken straight from xenoblade as well, in true teespring fashion

 

[0 0]

https://twitter.com/SavedYouAClickV/status/1332905779008053249?s=19

Gimmick account decides to do a quirky and make some profits from the shitshow lol

View attachment 1755155

If you look at his store he's selling stuff taken straight from xenoblade as well, in true teespring fashion

Saved You A Click is sort of infamous in terms of a gimmick account which regularly breaks character to shill, so I'm not surprised they're trying to turn a profit over such an inane thing.

 

[MooseGump]

Saved You A Click is sort of infamous in terms of a gimmick account which regularly breaks character to shill, so I'm not surprised they're trying to turn a profit over such an inane thing.

Especially with the daisy art in his likes, it's sort of his secondary gimmick that regularly weirds people out but it's le funny jokes to him

 

[gangweedfan]

I dont really pay attention to this thread but I think fans wanting Waluigi in the game makes sense because all the other mario characters are in but wanting characters like the mario RPG scarecrow guy in is just autistic. As for the melee emulation, why not make it a decentralized program or something? the only issue is that users would need to use fake names so they dont get sued by nintendo.

 

[Ozma (ZeTrannyJanny)]

All this twitlonger boils down to is whining.

Let me go over the important parts where the writer isn't just hatejerking nintendo.

Eleague
View attachment 1749867
Nintendo was currently running a tournament of sorts with it's E3 Invitational, and did not want to bring attention away from that to a melee tournament. So instead they gave Eleague permission to rebroadcast the E3 Invitational. They may also have simply not been interested in working with Eleague.

HTC
View attachment 1749879
HTC is interested in running a smash tournament, however Nintendo was currently in process of making a tournament with Twitch. As any logical company would do, they did not want to bring attention away from the upcoming tournament they were making, so they offer HTC a chance to sponsor the Twitch tournament instead.

ESL
View attachment 1749881
ESL is interested in running a tournament, however during this timeframe, Nintendo is not interested in running a tournament with ESL. Nintendo might have simply said no due to experience with ESL from Splatoon and ARMS, or maybe, they just weren't interested in any tournaments at this time, this may have been before Ultimate was announced, notice how the writer doesn't give a time frame for this. Also again with that "grassroots" shit. Melee tournaments aren't fucking "grassroots".

MLG
View attachment 1749892
MLG runs a smash tournament, and then another smash tournament for two seperate smash games. 2015 is the date the writer later specifies that Nintendo and Twitch were working together to make a Smash 4 and Melee tournament, so Nintendo could have simply been trying to get MLG off of their backs. It's also a possibility that Nintendo just wasn't interested in working with MLG, maybe MLG did some shit to piss Nintendo off?

View attachment 1749900
This timeframe was specifically when Nintendo was a lot more draconian about it's game's being broadcasted online, in 2013 the nintendo creator's program existed. This wasn't an attempt to "kill smash", this was Nintendo being over protective of it's property.

Redbull
View attachment 1749903
A lot of context is left out here, why was Redbull cut out from the conversations? What work did Redbull do exactly? Redbull may have just pissed nintendo off, or left on their own, who says Redbull didn't just leave themselves? Do we have any proof Nintendo cut them off? It's all speculation, sure, but so is "nintendo cutting out redbull".

Twitch

Here's the big one.
View attachment 1749907

What this basically boils down to is, Nintendo attempts to start tournament with Twitch, Nintendo announces new game, Nintendo decides to focus on new game instead of on the tournament, Nintendo continues to focus on new game and loses interest in running tournament.

---

Again, none of these were attempts to "kill smash" or even to "hurt the smash community" The writer is just so angry that Nintendo dared to focus on other things besides the Smash Bros community. He later talks about how Nintendo sent a C&D to Evo 2013, and if you remember, this was around the time Nintendo was more draconian about protecting it's properties.

The reason Big House specifically pissed off Nintendo so much, was that a tournament they had apparently previously sponsored (from what I can find anyways, may be wrong) went on to use Emulators and Roms. Something Nintendo notoriously HATES. The tournament getting a cease and desist was directly caused by it's own actions, since Melee players couldn't just wait for the pandemic to end to play a fucking 10 or 20 year old game where all they do is unfunly glitch the game the entire time instead of playing the way the developer intended. also smash bros is a fucking party game.

the twitch tournament never happened lol. The twit longer was basically nintendo promising things and never delivering

 

[Tanner Glass]

the twitch tournament never happened lol. The twit longer was basically nintendo promising things and never delivering

Right - but the twit longer(s) don't address that running/maintaining a profitable tournament scene is actually pretty hard and much more complicated than some executive signing a piece of paper and would never rationally include "let's support a scene where everyone plays a super piratable/modified version of a game we released in 2001 instead of the new game we're trying to promote".

It sounds like Nintendo did put a decent amount of work/research into it and was working with Twitch in doing so but it fell through - I would imagine partially because of Twitch's shift away from wanting to "sponsor esports" and instead "host esports" over the last few years but it seems like they aren't fully ready yet and Nintendo might just be waiting on them.

 

[Buffalo Chicken Sandwich]

To anyone in this thread staunchly defending Nintendo or making it seem like any fan who participates in emulation is at the full mercy of nintendo, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? How the hell did you corporate cock sucking faggots find this site?
It's a 20 year old game that they do not sell anymore and then want to play the victim when people have the audacity to play and enjoy their game.
I don't think the smash community should have ever asked Nintendo for support or money, and clearly won't moving forward, But Nintendo needs to just fuck off from trying to stop them from streaming and holding events. No other company acts this way and defending their actions seems like a troll in itself.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

To anyone in this thread staunchly defending Nintendo or making it seem like any fan who participates in emulation is at the full mercy of nintendo, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? How the hell did you corporate cock sucking faggots find this site?

Nothing stops the average person from downloading a rom and playing it at their own time. Hell, there's a giant rom hacking community around some of the older Super Mario games. The problem with this online tournament is that people could easily pirate a rom to participate in a tournament with a cash prize.

I understand how draconian Nintendo can be about this kind of stuff as well as how unfair it can be, but this is the one instance where I personally don't mind them taking action. Especially with all the drama that happened with the community recently.

 

[Buffalo Chicken Sandwich]

Nothing stops the average person from downloading a rom and playing it at their own time. Hell, there's a giant rom hacking community around some of the older Super Mario games. The problem with this online tournament is that people could easily pirate a rom to participate in a tournament with a cash prize.

You seem to forget that Nintendo hates those rom hacks and takes down the sites that host them as soon as they can. If people gathered to play these hacks, nintendo would try and stop that too.

I understand how draconian Nintendo can be about this kind of stuff as well as how unfair it can be, but this is the one instance where I personally don't mind them taking action. Especially with all the drama that happened with the community recently.

Absolutely fuck that. They have made 4 other smash games since Melee. Most of their target demographic for smash bros is younger than melee is. If they were really concerned about losing money they would port the game, sell new copies, or sell some sort of license of it. Hell, just sell the fucking rom file.
Also the excuse of "they need to enforce it to keep the copyright" is such bullshit. They try and enforce their copyright on so many things that they have no business doing it to. Remember just a few years ago when you couldn't even post on youtube about nintendo without being one of their "partners" that forced you to give most of your revenue to them? You actually think these people understand the internet?
Nintendo wants to have it's cake and eat it too, and all these shit heads agreeing must some special breed of brand loyalty that I am just not used to
I really never would have thought I would find such lame corporate shielding on the farms.

 

[JamusActimus]

You could make a legal twitter law argument saying nintendo is in the right.

But moraly nintendo is acting like fucking niggers.
Not only canceling the melee tournament but also the ultimate one.
Nintendo just want to screw the smash scene just like they did with Evo.

Deep down they hate this manchild community and will only use them to boost sales (exhibitions by pro player at the releases)
Nintendo has a trackrecord of being shitty to fans.(As2r,Pokemon uranium)

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

If they were really concerned about losing money they would port the game, sell new copies, or sell some sort of license of it.

They don't gain anything from reselling Melee, since a very niche group plays that game. They'd be losing money doing that if anything.

 

[Buffalo Chicken Sandwich]

They don't gain anything from reselling Melee, since a very niche group plays that game. They'd be losing money doing that if anything.

Are you actually retarded? They would lose money re-selling the best selling gamecube game that still to this day sells used for about 60 dollars? Even when all the extras that would go into it have been added for free by the community?
It's not niche, if it were, the most prevalent game on the system wouldn't still hold it's exact same dollar value.
Seriously, get this shit out of my face. Lose money my fucking ass, dude.

 

[CEO of Pickles]

You could make a legal twitter law argument saying Nintendo is in the right.
But morally, Nintendo is acting like fucking niggers.

Nintendo has a long track record of being absolutely shit when it comes to business decisions. The reason they can get away with it is because people like their product so much that it overrides the negative impact. Nintendo shut down a popular Mario battle royale game? That's perfectly fine because Nintendo was making their own shitty version. As someone said earlier in the thread, Nintendo just has to announce a new character for Smash and the Nintendrones will praise them and all will be well. Melee fans might stay mad, but Nintendo never had to cater to them to keep Smash alive. Maybe when Smash 6 is announced, Melee fans will rejoice if an adapter is announced for using GameCube controllers.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

Are you actually retarded? They would lose money re-selling the best selling gamecube game that still to this day sells used for about 60 dollars? Even when all the extras that would go into it have been added for free by the community?
It's not niche, if it were the most prevalent game on the system wouldn't still hold it's exact same dollar value.
Seriously, get this shit out of my face. Lose money my fucking ass, dude.

Doesn't the money from used copies not go to Nintendo? Besides, what about the sales from Ultimate including the DLC?

Melee may have been a best seller on the system, but that doesn't mean that hundreds of thousands of people now-a-days would want to line up to buy a copy.

 

[Buffalo Chicken Sandwich]

Doesn't the money from used copies not go to Nintendo? Besides, what about the sales from Ultimate including the DLC?

Melee may have been a best seller on the system, but that doesn't mean that hundreds of thousands of people now-a-days would want to line up to buy a copy.

What point are you making right now? No, used copy money doesn't go to Nintendo. And it shouldn't.
What about the sales of Ultimate? It's the best selling fighting game of all time with estimate sales in the upper 20 million copies now. Why does that matter at all? Does melee hinder that? I would argue it bolsters it.
This is very easy to understand, you say "that doesn't mean people will buy it now" but the fact that people will pay full "day one" price for this 20 year old game does mean people will buy it.

 

[Toolbox]

To anyone in this thread staunchly defending Nintendo or making it seem like any fan who participates in emulation is at the full mercy of nintendo, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? How the hell did you corporate cock sucking faggots find this site?
It's a 20 year old game that they do not sell anymore and then want to play the victim when people have the audacity to play and enjoy their game.

Not to mention there's been talk of disc rot affecting gamecube discs more than other discs of the same age, so who knows how long melee will even be playable with the original hardware unmodified.

 

[Nauseated Courgi]

What point are you making right now? No, used copy money doesn't go to Nintendo. And it shouldn't.
What about the sales of Ultimate? It's the best selling fighting game of all time with estimate sales in the upper 20 million copies now. Why does that matter at all? Does melee hinder that? I would argue it bolsters it.
This is very easy to understand, you say "that doesn't mean people will buy it now" but the fact that people will pay full "day one" price for this 20 year old game does mean people will buy it.

What I'm trying to say is that the average consumer has no real reason to play Melee over Ultimate unless they want to see the roots of the franchise. Anything that Melee offers Ultimate does and then some.