Trump Enslavement Syndrome - Orange man good. /r/The_Donald and any public demonstration of rabid pro-Trump enthusiasm in spite of all reason.

MarineTrainedTard said:
Right, well, I doubt our relationship with the UK is going to change much either regardless of who is president, though I imagine many Northern Irish aren't thrilled that Biden is Catholic
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ulsterscotstrump.JPG

Considering that Biden has said something like this, then I don't think the DUP are going to give him a warm welcome.
 
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MarineTrainedTard said:
Welp there it is, the Northern Irish support for Trump makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for them, they don't get a say
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A lot of people in NI are forced to vote between Sinn Feinn and DUP, even if they don't agree or like them.



I remember when Trump and the US desperately tried to get the UK not to use Huashit for their telecommunications (it eventually worked) and I remember Trump sent Bojo an angry phone call with threats like blockades and banning British goods but honestly, he should've just let them face the consequences of using cheap, shady Chinese crap rather than trying to push them. Even though it did work, it shows Trump is all talk and no action.
 
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CheezzyMach said:
Pretty much, I caught some shit in another thread for pointing out that shit only accelerated under his term.
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Reminds me of the Nazi apologists who insist that the Nazis saved the world (or at least Europe) from Communists, the Nazis seem to have helped socialism spread more than anyone. Before the Nazis took power there was the USSR and Mongolia. Then the Nazis came in, started invading everyone and making deals with the USSR.

Nazis flat out gave the Soviets
  • Estonia
  • Lithuania
  • Latvia
  • Moldova
  • Half of Poland
Then, after the Nazis were defeated they left perfect conditions for the Soviets to take
  • The other half of Poland
  • Half of Germany
  • Romania
  • Bulgaria
  • Hungary
  • Czechoslovakia
  • Yugoslavia
  • Albania
And this also led to Soviet friendly states being formed all over the world and the Nazis directly deserve a large share of the "credit" for Communists creating three of the five modern socialist nations.
  • China
  • North Korea
  • Vietnam
Without the Nazis it's entirely possible that the USSR would have collapsed on its own.
 
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Surfin Terf said:
Reminds me of the Nazi apologists who insist that the Nazis saved the world (or at least Europe) from Communists, the Nazis seem to have helped socialism spread more than anyone. Before the Nazis took power there was the USSR and Mongolia. Then the Nazis came in, started invading everyone and making deals with the USSR.

Nazis flat out gave the Soviets
  • Estonia
  • Lithuania
  • Latvia
  • Moldova
  • Half of Poland
Then, after the Nazis were defeated they left perfect conditions for the Soviets to take
  • The other half of Poland
  • Half of Germany
  • Romania
  • Bulgaria
  • Hungary
  • Czechoslovakia
  • Yugoslavia
  • Albania
And this also led to Soviet friendly states being formed all over the world and the Nazis directly deserve a large share of the "credit" for Communists creating three of the five modern socialist nations.
  • China
  • North Korea
  • Vietnam
Without the Nazis it's entirely possible that the USSR would have collapsed on its own.
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The USSR did collapse on their own anyway. Hitler gave them a chunk of Europe in Molotov-Ribbentrop, though.
 
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JaneThough said:
Ugh imagine giving a single shit about elections in a country you don't live in.
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Southeast Nigeria has a huge number of diehard Trump supporters who aren't giving this up, and it's fun watching them try to figure out how Trump won the election while also trying to figure out how our elections work.

Did you know Trump radiolabeled our voter ID cards so that he could tell which ballots were fraudulently cast after the election ended? Of course, I guess one small problem with that theory is that we don't actually have voter ID cards in the US, but Biden is definitely finished.
 
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Steamboat_Bill said:
Liberty my ass. If you sent this guy back to the Revolution, they'd be talking about how great King George was and how Washington and Jefferson were dirty Communists.
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The word communist didn't exist in 1776. Dirty liberals would be right, though.
 
Pointless Pedant said:
The word communist didn't exist in 1776. Dirty liberals would be right, though.
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Jefferson, though, was more or less considered a Jacobin, at least by the Federalists. To be fair, he was more or less openly enthusiastic about the Jacobins.
Norvic said:
If I were CEO of Parler and the president of the USA was openly musing about making me legally responsible for all the shit Parler users say, I'd be packing my bug out bag and securing my citizenship in Argentina.
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Apparently the Parler dude is as much of a retard as Andrew Torba.
 
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AnOminous said:
Jefferson, though, was more or less considered a Jacobin, at least by the Federalists. To be fair, he was more or less openly enthusiastic about the Jacobins.
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Jacobins were considered liberals by the conservatives of the time, like Burke. "Liberty Hangout" would have been hanging out with him.
 
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Pointless Pedant said:
Jacobins were considered liberals by the conservatives of the time, like Burke. "Liberty Hangout" would have been hanging out with him.
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Jacobins were considered a dire threat to America at the time by the Federalists, and Jefferson's enthusiasm for (and personal association with) a number of them was viewed as akin to treason, especially after the XYZ Affair and the subsequent Quasi-War. While actually arresting Jefferson himself would have been problematic, the Federalists went after a lot of his supporters under the Alien and Sedition Act, jailing them and attempting to silence them. This generally backfired, with the jailed critics writing more polemical material even from behind bars. Ultimately, despite the dire predictions of French threats to the United States, the whole thing fizzled out rather uneventfully. However, the Federalist crackdown on speech was so deeply unpopular that Adams was thrown out as America's first one-term President (a club Trump is probably about to join), and replaced with Jefferson. The Federalists more or less collapsed and were never a dominant party again. They formally dissolved in 1824 although they had more or less ceased to exist years before that.

It's somewhat ironic how beloved Jefferson is of modern libertarians, often considered right wing, who love quoting things like this famous one:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
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This kind of rhetoric owes more to the Jacobins than anyone, and it is pretty doubtful the people who quote it approve of those guys much. Jefferson was considered to be the equivalent of a modern day Communist in some senses, although there's been a weird realignment of policy views between what is considered "liberal" and "conservative" and what was then.

For instance, the belief in a strong federal government, by the Federalists, was considered "conservative." In fact, the Federalists would have preferred the executive branch be led by someone nearly a monarch. Meanwhile, Jefferson would be considered one of the wilder "liberals," at least among the most prominent politicians of the day. There were certainly more radical liberals. Now, the belief in a strong federal government is generally liberal, or at least left-wing (among those who are not outright anarchists), while opposing a strong federal government is conservative. So conservatives like Jefferson for his opposition to a strong federal government, yet they probably would not like the actual Jefferson if he were around today.
 
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AnOminous said:
Jacobins were considered a dire threat to America at the time by the Federalists, and Jefferson's enthusiasm for (and personal association with) a number of them was viewed as akin to treason, especially after the XYZ Affair and the subsequent Quasi-War. While actually arresting Jefferson himself would have been problematic, the Federalists went after a lot of his supporters under the Alien and Sedition Act, jailing them and attempting to silence them. This generally backfired, with the jailed critics writing more polemical material even from behind bars. Ultimately, despite the dire predictions of French threats to the United States, the whole thing fizzled out rather uneventfully. However, the Federalist crackdown on speech was so deeply unpopular that Adams was thrown out as America's first one-term President (a club Trump is probably about to join), and replaced with Jefferson. The Federalists more or less collapsed and were never a dominant party again. They formally dissolved in 1824 although they had more or less ceased to exist years before that.

It's somewhat ironic how beloved Jefferson is of modern libertarians, often considered right wing, who love quoting things like this famous one:



This kind of rhetoric owes more to the Jacobins than anyone, and it is pretty doubtful the people who quote it approve of those guys much. Jefferson was considered to be the equivalent of a modern day Communist in some senses, although there's been a weird realignment of policy views between what is considered "liberal" and "conservative" and what was then.

For instance, the belief in a strong federal government, by the Federalists, was considered "conservative." In fact, the Federalists would have preferred the executive branch be led by someone nearly a monarch. Meanwhile, Jefferson would be considered one of the wilder "liberals," at least among the most prominent politicians of the day. There were certainly more radical liberals. Now, the belief in a strong federal government is generally liberal, or at least left-wing (among those who are not outright anarchists), while opposing a strong federal government is conservative. So conservatives like Jefferson for his opposition to a strong federal government, yet they probably would not like the actual Jefferson if he were around today.
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By "liberal" I meant "classical liberalism", which Jefferson definitely was. "Liberal" didn't turn into a weird American term for socialists until the 20th century. Classical conservatism, like Burke or the Federalists, was not about limited government, as you said.
 
Pointless Pedant said:
By "liberal" I meant "classical liberalism", which Jefferson definitely was. "Liberal" didn't turn into a weird American term for socialists until the 20th century. Classical conservatism, like Burke or the Federalists, was not about limited government, as you said.
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It's just ironic that Jefferson, popularly considered a "classical liberal," a term that now means a form of what is now called a "conservative," was actually in some ways closer to what would currently be considered a radical leftist.
 
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AnOminous said:
It's just ironic that Jefferson, popularly considered a "classical liberal," a term that now means a form of what is now called a "conservative," was actually in some ways closer to what would currently be considered a radical leftist.
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I don't think of classical liberalism as conservative, since it can include some forms of left-libertarianism as well. I'd more say that people like Carl of Swindon misused "classical liberal" when they aren't really.
 
Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:
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I've discovered that while many libertarians are sincere and try to be consistent in their beliefs, it turns out there's a lot of "Libertarians" who say "I just want government to stay out of peoples' lives", but what they mean is "I want government to stay out of MY life, but it's OK if they fuck with yours, and sometimes, it's even good and right that they fuck with yours. But not mine." Much like how there are communists who are genuinely workers who actually believe communism will help the working class, but there's an awful lot of upper-middle class bougie NEETs who also like communism cuz they think they'll get free stuff
 
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MarineTrainedTard said:
I've discovered that while many libertarians are sincere and try to be consistent in their beliefs, it turns out there's a lot of "Libertarians" who say "I just want government to stay out of peoples' lives", but what they mean is "I want government to stay out of MY life, but it's OK if they fuck with yours, and sometimes, it's even good and right that they fuck with yours. But not mine." Much like how there are communists who are genuinely workers who actually believe communism will help the working class, but there's an awful lot of upper-middle class bougie NEETs who also like communism cuz they think they'll get free stuff
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Yep, and a lot of "libertarians" are just Republicans who are too ashamed to admit they're Republicans
 
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