Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Newman's Own]

Soulfinder: Black Tide is at the printer.

Art looks spectacular.

@TheCosmicWarrior seems to think Doug Ernst's book is shit despite the fact there don't seem to be any negative reviews of the first volume at all and all indicators seem to point to the second book being superior to the first in both story and art.

JDA should focus on improving the quality of his own product rather than shitting on works he can't compete with on a creative level.

So I stopped following a lot of the CG drama, especially as it relates to the Ethan Derangement Syndrome crowd, but I happened to catch the video that JDA made about Douglas Ernst and found that JDA had alienated more people, with Cummings and Preston no longer siding with him. I was trying to find out what happened, without having to go through a bunch of videos and avoiding the cancer that is Twitter, and found this page. I didn't find what I was looking for but I did find some amusing shit-flinging, and thought maybe someone here could shed light on what happened.

I'd like to know what this is about too. It appears that Ernst has a personal problem with JDA and isn't interested in promoting him. Given JDA's history of serpent like behavior I can't say I blame him. I wonder what it was Jon did to turn Ernst against him...

This might be a clue.

Is JDA kissing Ethan's ass this week or is he running him down? It's hard to keep up. Why would anyone want to associate with a guy like Jon?

It looks like Jon and Doug have an issue in private and Sixth asked Doug to promote the comic he's doing for Jon. Doug declined and Jon got butt hurt and started slagging Doug publicly like an 8th grade girl.

If character is any indicator I'd have to go with Doug on this one. He's consistently avoided mud slinging to sell books where that seems to be a major feature of JDA's marketing model.

JDA seems to want to start a fight with all his "friends" to generate drama and interest in his funny books. I've seen that model elsewhere but it slips my mind where.


Doug doesn't appear to be taking the bait.

This appears to be Doug's last attempt at a polite dialogue with JDA. I can't imagine why Doug decided to stop associating with a "standup guy" and friend like JDA.

 

[GranDuke]

Low quality crap getting funding due to Frog's streams is same shit as Marvel/DC/whatever hiring retarded SJWs.

 

[Mister Dongs]

--I recognize that there are customers who only want to buy product from ComicsGate creators, and that a catalogue or website would be helpful to them. I am not interested in doing this, because I don't actually care if customers only buy ComicsGate created product. Anyone who can find a way to make money by offering this service is the right person for the job, but it isn't going to be me. On the one hand, I will only promote fellow ComicsGaters, but on the other hand, I'm not trying to change anyone's buying habits, and recommend that people buy whatever makes them happy.

The funny thing is is that this has been around for at least nine months but few people have noticed or been interested in using it. "CreatorGogo" has quietly put up a site that manually tracks and links the progress of all currently active Comicsgate campaigns here at https://creatorgo.com/cg/#campaigns . It's a very useful tool for a number of things, not least of which is getting a good picture of Comicsgate's sales figures, or even knowing what's for sale under the CG banner without having to trawl through youtube and social media search engine results.

For ease of reading, I have colored Frog's projects green, Zack's projects baby blue and given Charlie's London the mottled blood color that it truly deserves as an existential threat to Comicsgate values and principles. And the horror doesn't end there folks, just look at the worthies this historical biopic muscled out of the coveted "#30" spot:

(column on right-hand side tracks 'gross per page of work')

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ninety-four-volume-1#/

Compare this with Ninety-Four, a ninety-four page comic volume that's a tribute to, you guessed it, the comics of 1994. Given how many Comicsgaters say they yearn for a return to the era of 90s comics, this nostalgica-evoking piece with full production values, high page count and true-to-form artwork this should be a hot property right? Yet Ninety-Four is one of the lowest grossing yet funded campaigns in all of CG with $3200. Even combining its kickstarter campaign, before Nasser stands to come out ahead with Asyl.

 

[Pilule Noire]

And I guess I've had the same thing happen with Micah Curtis and Wenger. Varying levels of HUMILIATION required for each of those guys.

Don't worry, Professor Micah has already forgiven you for being wrong.

Shows what you know, Frog, calling Micah an idiot. Look at those spectacles, he's much more intelligent than you. Where are your spectacles, smart guy?

Also bonus video for @Mecha, I know what Santa is bringing you for Christmas:

 

[FROG]

Dragoon Knight Alldrake was Comicsgate or at least Wenger was. Promoted on your channel (against your wishes or not) I'm pretty sure the only person "terrified" by a comicsgate label at that point was you.

SJWs don't produce good comics is subjective That's not an argument, That's an opinion.

As for your second point, ANTI-SJW talking points are propaganda. If your trying to sell me on a comic by virtue of anything other than the quality of the book, that's propaganda. Not calling me a bigot and being called Toxic does not make your book special. Its a baseline standard for business. Not something you slap on the cover.

You set yourself for a My product is better than DC argument, which again is subjective. I can't change your mind, and Im not really trying to. I'll just leave it at producing one book a year you have a different business model than DC so an US for Them doesn't work if you admit to having a different business model and aren't really competing with them in the first place.

DC selling books in exchange for money is capitalism, even if some of their employees being idiots on twitter.

I disagree with comicsgate because most of the books are fun to laugh at; I need a little more than something else sucks to buy a comic book. That's just like my opinion man I could be wrong. I do appreciate you trying to change my mind and answering my questions. Happy to back the mainline Cyberfrog series based on the excellent art alone. Snowman looks good, and when does Creed launch?

Mecha, we should debate in person. I feel like you aren‘t understanding what I’m saying.

For example, when I say ”it terrifies them” (The label Comicsgate) I’m referring to the mainstream establishment. I don’t care who claims the label for themselves. Creators who, in my opinion or yours, are untalented, can be ComicsGate and it doesn’t terrify me. I don’t care, in fact. I just won’t promote them.

I only care about myself and my books.

Another example, you telling me that SJWs sometimes make good comics is YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION. I disagree with your opinion. You telling me my opinion about your opinion “isn’t an argument” is pretty fucking stupid.

i expect better from the guy who was trying to build War Campaign 2 with Preston Poulter and Zombienomicon.

 

[Newman's Own]

Compare this with Ninety-Four, a ninety-four page comic volume that's a tribute to, you guessed it, the comics of 1994. Given how many Comicsgaters say they yearn for a return to the era of 90s comics, this nostalgica-evoking piece with full production values, high page count and true-to-form artwork this should be a hot property right? Yet Ninety-Four is one of the lowest grossing yet funded campaigns in all of CG with $3200. Even combining its kickstarter campaign, before Nasser stands to come out ahead with Asyl.

ComicsGaters "yearn for" what they are told to yearn for.

It would be a simple matter for this project to become a resounding success. He just needs the right promoter. Apparently Ikari Press isn't it.

Check it out if you're into shoulder pads and pouches.

Edit:

You telling me my opinion about your opinion “isn’t an argument” is pretty fucking stupid

Go easy on Mecha. He's dumber than a post. Mecha "debated" you on stream once and was kissing your ass within a minute or two.

I think he just wants you to notice him. Daddy issues perhaps....

 

[Mecha]

Mecha, we should debate in person. I feel like you aren‘t understanding what I’m saying.

For example, when I say ”it terrifies them” (The label Comicsgate) I’m referring to the mainstream establishment. I don’t care who claims the label for themselves. Creators who, in my opinion or yours, are untalented, can be ComicsGate and it doesn’t terrify me. I don’t care, in fact. I just won’t promote them.

I only care about myself and my books.

Another example, you telling me that SJWs sometimes make good comics is YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION. I disagree with your opinion. You telling me my opinion about your opinion “isn’t an argument” is pretty fucking stupid.

i expect better from the guy who was trying to build War Campaign 2 with Preston Poulter and Zombienomicon.

I think we're both trying to argue opinion. On which at this point seem to disagree. I'd love to have the debate in person, thank you for the offer.

Also bonus video for @Mecha, I know what Santa is bringing you for Christmas:

 

[Newman's Own]

Another example, you telling me that SJWs sometimes make good comics is YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION. I disagree with your opinion. You telling me my opinion about your opinion “isn’t an argument” is pretty fucking stupid

I think he just wants you to notice him.

I'd love to have the debate in person, thank you for the offer.

This board is awe inspiring.

 

[Rupin]

Dragoon Knight Alldrake was Comicsgate or at least Wenger was. Promoted on your channel (against your wishes or not) I'm pretty sure the only person "terrified" by a comicsgate label at that point was you.

SJWs don't produce good comics is subjective That's not an argument, That's an opinion.

As for your second point, ANTI-SJW talking points are propaganda. If your trying to sell me on a comic by virtue of anything other than the quality of the book, that's propaganda. Not calling me a bigot and being called Toxic does not make your book special. Its a baseline standard for business. Not something you slap on the cover.

You set yourself for a My product is better than DC argument, which again is subjective. I can't change your mind, and Im not really trying to. I'll just leave it at producing one book a year you have a different business model than DC so an US for Them doesn't work if you admit to having a different business model and aren't really competing with them in the first place.

DC selling books in exchange for money is capitalism, even if some of their employees being idiots on twitter.

I disagree with comicsgate because most of the books are fun to laugh at; I need a little more than something else sucks to buy a comic book. That's just like my opinion man I could be wrong. I do appreciate you trying to change my mind and answering my questions. Happy to back the mainline Cyberfrog series based on the excellent art alone. Snowman looks good, and when does Creed launch?

The only good SJW comic ever produced was Saga. All others besides that that have gone down the SJW route, are responsible for turning the industry into the flaming pile of shit it is today. When you have to depend on YA novels and some badly drawn comic about a superhero dog to tout the mainstream’s sales figures, you things are bad. There is nothing subjective about the steady decline of the comic book industry for the past 5 years.

 

[Mecha]

The only good SJW comic ever produced was Saga. All others besides that have gone down the SJW route, are responsible for turning the industry into the flaming pile of shit it is today. When you have to depend on YA novels and some badly drawn comic about a superhero dog to tout the mainstream’s sales figures, you things are bad. There is nothing subjective about the steady decline of the comic book industry for the past 5 years.

All I'm trying to argue is that Comicsgate books are shitty too. They aren't a compelling replacement or even alternative for the mainstream industry. Comicsgate whatever it is, isnt a selling point. The books are that bad. As a comic consumer the choice is easy.

 

[Newman's Own]

All I'm trying to argue is that Comicsgate books are shitty too. They aren't a compelling replacement or even alternative for the mainstream industry. Comicsgate whatever it is, isnt a selling point. The books are that bad. As a comic consumer the choice is easy.

Um, so what?

Who are you arguing with? No one here said CG books are superior.

What's your solution? More humanoid bears?

You're sitting back complaining that no one is making the cape shit you want except Donny Cates. The world wasn't created to cater to your specific taste in comics. If you complain harder that's not going to make Wenger or Adam Post any more talented.

Some people are good at comics, others are shit at it, both in indies and at Marvel. Get over it.

Is this bear thing sexual with you?

 

[FROG]

All I'm trying to argue is that Comicsgate books are shitty too. They aren't a compelling replacement or even alternative for the mainstream industry. Comicsgate whatever it is, isnt a selling point. The books are that bad. As a comic consumer the choice is easy.

I'll try typing it again.

ComicsGate is a mechanism through which comic books can be marketed, funded and distributed outside of the Direct Market mainstream.

Your argument about whether or not ComicsGate books themselves are better or not better than the mainstream's offerings doesn't matter.

The primary purpose of what I, and the people in my circle, are doing is to make independent comic books POSSIBLE without the benefit of all of the advantages that Image, BOOM, IDW and Valiant enjoy.

Your concern about the quality of books that get funded through ComicsGate is noted, but I've been in the business long enough to recognize that ComicsGate comics look like a thin slice of the comic book business. Take a look at a PREVIEWS catalogue, or walk around an Artists Alley at a comic con.

There are professional comics and there are more primitive efforts. The market sorts it all out.

I think I'm producing a product worthy of standing shoulder to shoulder with the Top 1% of comics today. Many of the professionals that I've brought with me are capable of the same.

But we'll always get more amateur efforts, because lots of people want to do comics.

ComicsGate makes it possible to do comics on your own terms. That's why it's valuable and important.

 

[COMMI3 MARK]

But we'll always get more amateur efforts, because lots of people want to do comics.

ComicsGate makes it possible to do comics on your own terms. That's why it's valuable and important.

The more amateur looking comics serve an important purpose in making other wannabe creators think "well even I can do better than that."

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

Don't worry, Professor Micah has already forgiven you for being wrong.

View attachment 1784365

Shows what you know, Frog, calling Micah an idiot. Look at those spectacles, he's much more intelligent than you. Where are your spectacles, smart guy?

Also bonus video for @Mecha, I know what Santa is bringing you for Christmas:

I hope this is sarcasm?

MEEKACHU is a fucking idiot

 

[Absurdity]

I'll try typing it again.

Let me help you:

ComicsGate is a mechanism through which my comic books and those within my inner circle can be marketed, funded and distributed outside of the Direct Market mainstream.

ComicsGate makes it possible to do my comics on my terms. That's why it's valuable and important.

Comic books were always possible and I believe you meant to say "with the benefit of all the advantages... etc." The main advantage of going through Scivergate is tapping into your customer base. As more big names trickle in, your early advantage will decrease. As long as you maintain your Howard Stern of comics persona with your Wack Pack firmly in tow, you should still make money... for yourself. But the continual shitshows and your willingness to let other people pay for your mistakes means it will be tougher for others to thrive around you.

You keep making these all-inclusive statements which don't reflect reality. The reality is our favorite comic books and characters will not be returning. Some of our favorite artists and writers will be striking out on their own, but having to suddenly take on any combination of the following roles: artist/writer/creator/publisher/marketer is going to make it impossible to ensure the same level of quality.

"The market sorts it all out."

The "market" now is all about frontloading the hype machine. No longer are we really able to look through a comic before we buy it, our commitment is required before we get to see it. We're also paying 10 times more on average than we might have in the past for these things. A hundred bucks if you're an average frog paypig. This is not an industry that caters to the customer. You really have to get amped up to drop money like we're seeing here. The urge to make oneself feel good about such an investment helps cement the cult-like behavioral loop we see in some of the more ardent fans. Think Sega vs. Nintendo + politics. One group of nuts gets replaced by another.

Is there such a thing as a casual Cyberfrog fan?

Comic Books almost always benefitted from the collaboration between artist and writer. You can't really have that anymore now when the artist owns everything. If they happen to strike gold. great, but there isn't going to be team after team working on an IP and adding depth to these characters in the process. The owner/creator has to be okay with other people working on their creation if their creation is going to reach that next level.

Top 1% today, sure. Top 1% 10 years ago, no. Ethan is an excellent artist and marketer, but he's a mediocre writer and creator, and a trashy human being. If you want really well-drawn one dimensional characters with undercooked plots and clunky script, and a C-Level side shitshow on YouTube, you know exactly where to go. Only in a comic book apocalypse would this seem like an improvement.

 

[Newman's Own]

ComicsGate makes it possible to do comics on your own terms. That's why it's valuable and important.

Crowd funding in indy comics makes this possible. ComicsGate is a small, albeit, undeniable part of that equation.

Creators didn't need CG before 2018 and they don't need it now. Access to the paypiggie religious fanatics is a bonus for sure though. Malin and Cecil would just be substance abusing losers without it.

 

[Smug Freiza]

I think a livestream debate between @FROG and @Mecha on what Comicsgate means to each of them might actually make for an interesting stream. One thing Comicsgate lacks in terms of content is that normally all the panelists agree with one another and there's rarely any dissenting opinions which makes some of the shows predictable and repetitive.

Another suggestion Ethan would be to bring on Charlie's London as a guest too, I believe she had previously stated she'd be willing to debate Mecha on the merits of her book. Charlies London has three days left in it's campaign, so scheduling this debate might make a great way for her to promote her book in the final days of the campaign.

I'd recommend the show start with no more than four panelists, yourself, Mecha, Charlie's London and possibly Cecil for comedic relief every once in a while. The show could begin with Mecha expressing his opinions and thoughts on the book and give Charlie a chance to address them. Once that first topic has been discussed, perhaps Charlie could leave the panel and then Jon Malin, Dan Fraga or another pro could join and then the second topic of Comicsgate itself could be discussed.

Mecha has shown on previous livestreams that he can be polite and cordial without resorting to cursing or making a complete ass of himself like Berserk Guts and Ryzie Lee. These series of debates could make for an entertaining stream and give Mecha, Charlie and yourself a chance to voice your points without resorting to text on twitter and kiwifarms.

I think the audience would enjoy it.

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

I think a livestream debate between @FROG and @Mecha on what Comicsgate means to each of them might actually make for an interesting stream. One thing Comicsgate lacks in terms of content is that normally all the panelists agree with one another and there's rarely any dissenting opinions which makes some of the shows predictable and repetitive.

Another suggestion Ethan would to bring on Charlie's London as a guest too, I believe she had previously stated she'd be willing to debate Mecha on the merits of her book. Charlies London has three days left in it's campaign, so scheduling this debate might make a great way for her to promote in book in the final days.
View attachment 1785455

I'd recommend the show start with no more than four panelists, yourself, Mecha, Charlie's London and possibly Cecil for comedic relief every once in a while. The show could begin with Mecha expressing his opinions and thoughts on the book and give Charlie a chance to address them. Once that first topic has been discussed, perhaps Charlie could leave the panel and then Jon Malin, Dan Fraga or another pro could join and then the second topic of Comicsgate itself could be discussed.

Mecha has shown on previous livestreams that he can be polite and cordial without resorting to cursing or making a complete ass of himself like Berserk Guts and Ryzie Lee. These series of debates could make for an entertaining stream and give Mecha, Charlie and yourself a chance to voice your points without resorting to text on twitter and kiwifarms.

I think the audience would enjoy it.

I volunteer to be a NON-BIASED moderator...lol

 

[GranDuke]

"ComicsGate makes it possible to do comics on your own terms."

Yeah, you can suck Frog's dick on your own terms.

 

[Rupin]

Crowd funding in indy comics makes this possible. ComicsGate is a small, albeit, undeniable part of that equation.

Creators didn't need CG before 2018 and they don't need it now. Access to the paypiggie religious fanatics is a bonus for sure though. Malin and Cecil would just be substance abusing losers without it.

i call bullcrap on that. CG and CG connected projects tend to do better overall then independent projects outside of that circle as a whole. So yes it is needed because I see an awful lot of projects outside of the CG sphere that underperform or fail without funding. At least with CG you have a safety net of extra support.