US ATF Decision Could Lead to Biggest Gun Registration, Turn-in Effort in American History - Agency's vague AR-15 pistol standards could affect millions

New guidance from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) could put millions of Americans in legal jeopardy.

The ATF published a notice Thursday that could require millions of AR-15 pistols and similar firearms—which are designed with braces that strap on to a shooter's forearm—to be either registered, turned in, destroyed, or dismantled. But the standards laid out for determining the devices' legality, such as caliber or weight, provide no objective measures, and the agency said it may also use undisclosed factors to judge the legality of the devices.

The agency conceded in the notice that some pistol braces are legal and should not be subject to the registration or destruction requirement. It said, however, that it could not provide a blanket determination for which pistols, or braces with which they're often equipped, are legal and said it would have to examine each gun "on a case-by-case basis." That means owners of the vast majority of the estimated three to four million AR-15 pistols and similar firearms may have to register with the ATF.

Second Amendment advocates were up in arms over the proposed rule, saying the uncertain legal status could destroy several businesses that make pistol braces and harm the gun industry. Erich Pratt, senior vice president of Gun Owners of America (GOA), said the subjective nature of the guidance shows that the "ATF has gone off into the deep end."

"GOA will rally the grassroots to fight these regulations, and if they eventually go into effect, we will commence immediate legal action to protect gun owners," Pratt said in a statement.

The controversy stems from how federal law distinguishes between short-barrel rifles and shotguns, both of which must be registered and require a $200 tax stamp, and pistols that do not require either. The key component is whether a firearm is designed to be pressed against the shooter's shoulder. Since 2012, the ATF has classified several guns with braces designed to strap to a shooter's forearm as pistols. The agency's Boston field office called that interpretation into question in August after sending a cease and desist letter to one manufacturer. The agency ordered a review in October following intervention from the White House.

Neither the ATF nor the White House responded to a request for comment.

The notice said the agency plans to waive the $200 tax for those registering the affected firearms during a grace period to be announced later. The public has two weeks to offer comment on the ATF notice before it goes into effect.

https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/atf-decision-could-lead-to-biggest-gun-registration-turn-in-effort-in-american-history/

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I'm kinda pissed about this as I bought a ZPAP 92 and brought it to a gunsmith to have a brace fitted and now my gun is stuck in this gay limbo.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Just like i've always said, those AR/AK pistols are dumb as shit and the smart move is to get a real sbr with a tax stamp.

This. Braces are just neener-neener working around the rules to thumb your nose at the ATF.

Going through with this would actually force people to build better guns rather than wonky pieces of junk.

 

[AgriDrThunder]

Is this your first time buying a gun? Everyone I know who wanted fancy toys set up a legal charter or whatever it's called before the new tax stamp rules went into place.
Best to buy your silencers now before a midnight change in the regulations when Biden gets foisted into the white house. smart people are smart because they can work around the rule.

No, I own quite a few firearms. What kind of weird elitist bubble do you live in? Is this your first time talking to an average, run-of-the-mill, gun owner or do you just hang out in rich-kid larping circles?

Most gun owners don't have the time or money to start up legal charters to put their firearms in, expecting that is unrealistic and out-of-touch. Saying that if someone didn't do that then they're somehow not "smart" is fucking retarded. Americans shouldn't have to work around laws to exercise their constitutional freedoms.

I think plenty of guns are dumb; Shockwaves, 300blk AR's with all kinds of colors, revolvers that can shoot .410 shells etc etc. I don't think the people who buy them are dumb and I don't think that they should have to buy a tax stamp for them. Different strokes for different folks and if that's how they want to spend their money who am I to say shit?

 

[murdered meat bag]

what's really dumb is that your local police is going to love taking these away from you so they can look good for the public.

No, I own quite a few firearms. What kind of weird elitist bubble do you live in? Is this your first time talking to an average, run-of-the-mill, gun owner or do you just hang out in rich-kid larping circles?

Most gun owners don't have the time or money to start up legal charters to put their firearms in, expecting that is unrealistic and out-of-touch. Saying that if someone didn't do that then they're somehow not "smart" is fucking retarded. Americans shouldn't have to work around laws to exercise their constitutional freedoms.

you must live in a shitty state. Mine had lawyers in gunshops for months before the regulation change, about a 100-200 bucks, took 15-20 minutes and then you have a legal gun trust. After the regulation silencerco kiosks started popping up. but this is a state that loves it's hunting and militia larping so ymmv

I think plenty of guns are dumb; Shockwaves, 300blk AR's with all kinds of colors, revolvers that can shoot .410 shells etc etc. I don't think the people who buy them are dumb and I don't think that they should have to buy a tax stamp for them. Different strokes for different folks and if that's how they want to spend their money who am I to say shit?

keep screaming into the ether then. there was a very simple solution that took very little money and time. I forget what the limitations for gun trusts after the nfa change was but now you don't need your local police to ok you for a tax stamp.

 

[Dom Cruise]

It is such a strategically bad move as well. They are forgoing the slow heat increase so the frogs are going to jump and when they do it may not be controllable.

They've been cranking up the heat ridiculously over the last several years, in that period of time black America has turned into a cult that worships itself as the master race, they've rewritten the very concept of "male and female" and they've normalized rioting.

They've basically tried to push at least 20 years of "progress" in the span of just several, I think they got real fucking greedy around 2013/2014 because of Obama and thought the war had already been won, so they thought they no longer had to play the long game and they still have not slowed down despite the frog showing signs of wanting to jump.

 

[AgriDrThunder]

what's really dumb is that your local police is going to love taking these away from you so they can look good for the public.

I don't have "local" police, where I live there's only a Sheriff. I think we're experiencing an urban-rural divide here.

you must live in a shitty state. Mine had lawyers in gunshops for months before the regulation change, about a 100-200 bucks, took 15-20 minutes and then you have a legal gun trust. After the regulation silencerco kiosks started popping up. but this is a state that loves it's hunting and militia larping so ymmv

Lawyers in gunshops? Nigga what? Where they do that at? Dallas metroplex? There's a dearth of lawyers in my county and all the surrounding counties, gunshops would be the last place you'd find them. You must live in an area with a surplus of attorneys.

keep screaming into the ether then. there was a very simple solution that took very little money and time.

Stop simping for the feds and stop imagining that the area in which you live is representative of the standard situation across the country because it clearly is not.

 

[BobbyBriggs69420]

I think plenty of guns are dumb...revolvers that can shoot .410 shells

I ride a bike a lot (like with pedals, not a motor) and have had some scary run-ins with dogs, one today actually, and I've thought a few times about a 410 derringer, I didn't know there were revolvers but that sounds kinda good to me too, bad choice?

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I ride a bike a lot (like with pedals, not a motor) and have had some scary run-ins with dogs, one today actually, and I've thought a few times about a 410 derringer, I didn't know there were revolvers but that sounds kinda good to me too, bad choice?

Yeah, there's a thing called the Judge. It's... okay. Choose your ammo carefully.

 

[murdered meat bag]

I don't have "local" police, where I live there's only a Sheriff. I think we're experiencing an urban-rural divide here.



Lawyers in gunshops? Nigga what? Where they do that at? Dallas metroplex? There's a dearth of lawyers in my county and all the surrounding counties, gunshops would be the last place you'd find them. You must live in an area with a surplus of attorneys.



Stop simping for the feds and stop imagining that the area in which you live is representative of the standard situation across the country because it clearly is not.

i think we just have different personalities that would lead us to have different social circles. like i said, we love hunting and militia larping and its not odd to see doctors and lawyer having bbq and smoking cigars with plumbers and walmart employees in the gun clubs here.

the differnce is that no one is going let any idiots who say "simping for the feds" hang around.

i mean your lgs should've let you know about the gun trusts and the benefits... if you managed to have an amicable relationship.

I ride a bike a lot (like with pedals, not a motor) and have had some scary run-ins with dogs, one today actually, and I've thought a few times about a 410 derringer, I didn't know there were revolvers but that sounds kinda good to me too, bad choice?

you wont know til you've shot one a few times.

 

[AgriDrThunder]

I ride a bike a lot (like with pedals, not a motor) and have had some scary run-ins with dogs, one today actually, and I've thought a few times about a 410 derringer, I didn't know there were revolvers but that sounds kinda good to me too, bad choice?

You sound like a man on a budget. I recommend a yeet cannon.

the differnce is that no one is going let any idiots who say "simping for the feds" hang around.

Do you know what website you're on?

 

[HarblMcDavid]

People better get proficient at the MP5 style forward sling tension shooting technique if they want any hope of shooting those things half controllably...

Frankly if the ATF wasn't sure about these they shouldn't have fucking approved them in the first place.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

Fuck the ATF. All my homies hate the ATF.

 

[murdered meat bag]

People better get proficient at the MP5 style forward sling tension shooting technique if they want any hope of shooting those things half controllably...

Frankly if the ATF wasn't sure about these they shouldn't have fucking approved them in the first place.

it only passed because it was a pistol and not a sbr loophole. like everything else blame the idiots who jumped on the loophole bandwagon.

the feds will start regulating 3d printer sales because idiots are printing autosears and calling them storage hooks.

 

[DuckSucker]

They've been cranking up the heat ridiculously over the last several years, in that period of time black America has turned into a cult that worships itself as the master race, they've rewritten the very concept of "male and female" and they've normalized rioting.

They've basically tried to push at least 20 years of "progress" in the span of just several, I think they got real fucking greedy around 2013/2014 because of Obama and thought the war had already been won, so they thought they no longer had to play the long game and they still have not slowed down despite the frog showing signs of wanting to jump.

I dont think the "frog is going to jump" though. I mean what are they gonna do, actually? 99% of the people this shit applies to are not going to actually fight and die for this shit and the other 99% of people who have never fired a gun have been sheltered from guns in general and shown unrealistic shit of what guns can reasonably do (movies and video games and shit) so theyre easily told this is necessary for your safety. Its the ultimate slippery slope.

Theyve pushed and pushed the boundaries, any time someone tries some militia shit, they bring down the actual full force and go "Hey dont test me". Theyve kind of already won. There was never any fight.

People better get proficient at the MP5 style forward sling tension shooting technique if they want any hope of shooting those things half controllably...

Frankly if the ATF wasn't sure about these they shouldn't have fucking approved them in the first place.

Vagueness in shit like this is there by design. It grants more reach and allows them to pick and choose how to apply rules, and play favorites. Its like the war on drugs, how we dont drug test our politicians and you know like 90% of them either sell or do/have partake, or their kids do. Its not a problem because it needs to be a problem.

 

[HarblMcDavid]

it only passed because it was a pistol and not a sbr loophole. like everything else blame the idiots who jumped on the loophole bandwagon.

I'm 99% sure everyone involved sent a sample of their designs to the ATF because the difference between being right and wrong is unregistered SBRs, and the ATF in some cases told them "nope". In most case the answer was "looks fine".

The ATF was under no obligation to "approve" pistol braces as being acceptable on AR-pistols and similar firearms and never have been.

The correct course of action was to say "nope" a few years ago when people started asking, not several years out when there's a multitude of these things kicking around the country.

 

[1Tonka_Truck]

I'm 99% sure everyone involved sent a sample of their designs to the ATF because the difference between being right and wrong is unregistered SBRs, and the ATF in some cases told them "nope". In most case the answer was "looks fine".

SB Tactical sent in some of their braces to the ATF and decided the rest were substantially similar enough to not bother. The main problem, that was not their decision to make. There are now a hilarious number of non-complaint braces in use.

 

[murdered meat bag]

I'm 99% sure everyone involved sent a sample of their designs to the ATF because the difference between being right and wrong is unregistered SBRs, and the ATF in some cases told them "nope". In most case the answer was "looks fine".

The ATF was under no obligation to "approve" pistol braces as being acceptable on AR-pistols and similar firearms and never have been.

The correct course of action was to say "nope" a few years ago when people started asking, not several years out when there's a multitude of these things kicking around the country.

the difference between ar pistols and sbrs are that ar pistols are sold as pistols. which means no stocks or vert grips on any if them without a tax stamp.
tthe sig brace was fine until every gunblogger decided to ask the atf to explain the legality of putting the brace on your shoulder. and then someone made a chinstock to get around the no stock rule.

basic ENDO levels of stupid loophole snooping.

 

[White Devil]

Yeah, there's a thing called the Judge. It's... okay. Choose your ammo carefully.

It really isn't. I know someone that had a factory new one explode in their hand. Sued the fuck out of Taurus and won damages + medical bills.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

The atf is unconstitutional

is an explosive an arm? Is any firearm an arm? Is an intercontinental nuclear missile an arm?

If I light my arms on fire, do I have to register them?

 

[Meth Kennedy]

Nobody should register shit and if you do you're a faggot. If nobody does it the ATF will have to start selecting people at random to terrorize and if nobody budges then they're going to have to keep escalating until they're just killing random people in the street for made-up crimes and the "opinion" of the agent.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

If I light my arms on fire, do I have to register them?

Yes. I'm sorry.