Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[verissimus]

Frog is currently streaming with a suicidal Shane Davis and a sedated Pat Parnell and it's surreal. All three of them look like they're being held at gunpoint. Frog keeps trying to extract a conversation from them but it's as if they're speaking to each other from different dimensions. Frog keeps asking for Cecil to come in and save the stream but Cecil seems oddly hesitant. The fuck is going on right now?

2020 my friend. That's what's going on.

 

[FROG]

2020 my friend. That's what's going on.

This has been a fucking bitch of a year, no doubt about it.

 

[TheCosmicWarrior]

What did Waid lose? From where I sit he's now stronger than ever because of this. This outcome will only embolden those types of people, not discourage them. Waid just provided the roadmap for getting away with this shit.

When was the last time Waid came out with a book anyone cared about? "Stronger than ever" I guess if this were like 1995 and Kingdom Come was about to launch.

The truth is it's a waste of time to fight Waid at this point, who doesn't control anything. Zack's stronger for not having this on his plate and not having to deal with some drag-out legal battle eating up fees for years.

No, I actually CREATED NEW STUFF for DC. Mark never really did. He created Impulse, that's good. A couple others. Most of his creations were derivative. Creating a new character called "Kid Flash" doesn't mean you get incentives.

Here's what Waid created for DC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:characters_created_by_Mark_Waid

And by the way, I'm not wealthy off my royalties either. Aside from windfalls, like the JUSTICE LEAGUE movie check, I probably get $80-100K per year. I've got a lot of new characters in FLASH and GREEN LANTERN, which will probably keep that green for the rest of my life.

Chuck Dixon has Bane. That's a REALLY nice character to own a piece of.

Mark Waid has Magog and Savitar.

Exactly this. Waid's entire writing angle is taking historical characters, twisting it a little so that it's got that classic feel with something a little bit edgy and modern. Even his creator-owned Irredeemable is just Kingdom Come extrapolated to the next level. It makes for some fun popcorn reads but there's a reason people are like "Oh yeah, Waid's flash is good... but Johns Flash is DEFINITIVE."

Chuck not only created Bane, but created the best character in the DCU, Stephanie Brown.

 

[jspit2.0]

The biggest winner in this Zack/Waid clusterfuck is Liam. We should still be laughing at him right now and planning the plot for Nasser's Misery parody instead of discussing Zacks retreet.

I think I remember he started inching toward attacking Richard then got really spooked by the reaction. He's clearly threatened by competition. I'm amazed he hasn't followed WC in crowing. This is a pyrrhic vindication for neverCG.

He created another character and called them Kid Flash, apparently.

For The Kingdom. Man, you want to talk about humiliation. Do you remember that? How anyone took him seriously after he exposed himself.

The Speed Force is a good thing to have. If it's mentioned in the movie or a video game, it'll be a nice payout. The television stuff isn't that great.
But yeah, there's this idea that Mark Waid must be a millionaire because of Kingdom Come, and I just want to bring reality to bear here. Publishing royalties aren't much.

Well, when your one of DC's top GN's with hundreds of copies sold a month, it adds up over time. But KC must be horrible for royalties because for the most part Alex Ross just drew DC's Silver/Golden Age characters in their classic costumes with some touch ups.

2020 my friend. That's what's going on.

Yeah, crazy year. Should really have brought people together.

This has been a fucking bitch of a year, no doubt about it.

Glad you don't have the Coof Ethan. Before I forget and just so I'm clear.

Merry Christmas to all of you, Kiwi and Cow alike.

 

[Francis York Morgan]

But yeah, there's this idea that Mark Waid must be a millionaire because of Kingdom Come, and I just want to bring reality to bear here. Publishing royalties aren't much.

As someone with family who work in publishing, I can back that up. People often hear "royalties" and assume it means you're getting a fat check from some media group. I've seen some royalty checks that honestly weren't worth the postage used to send them. Also, hasn't DC been working to get creators to sign away their rights to things they've created?

And I'm really curious about how much Waid really gets out of Kingdom Come. It was Alex Ross's brainchild and, if I'm remembering right, Waid was partnered with him on it by DC themselves.

For The Kingdom. Man, you want to talk about humiliation. Do you remember that? How anyone took him seriously after he exposed himself.

And thanks for making me remember the mess that was Hypertime.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

I'm amazed he hasn't followed WC in crowing.

You spoke too soon, he's livestreaming right now:

 

[jspit2.0]

When was the last time Waid came out with a book anyone cared about? "Stronger than ever" I guess if this were like 1995 and Kingdom Come was about to launch.

He's producing an FF book with Neal Adams. People liked his OG run on the FF book back in the early 00's. (I say others, I thought he missed the mark on Doc Doom.). Lots of people liked Irredeemable. (I didn't).

Last book he did I thought was good? Brave and the Bold. 2007-2008. George Perez and Jerry Ordway. Really good stuff. He's better on DC because he's such a fanboy.

The truth is it's a waste of time to fight Waid at this point, who doesn't control anything. Zack's stronger for not having this on his plate and not having to deal with some drag-out legal battle eating up fees for years.

Meh, make what excuses you want. I've said my piece.

Exactly this. Waid's entire writing angle is taking historical characters, twisting it a little so that it's got that classic feel with something a little bit edgy and modern.

That's Ethan's angle...and Alex Ross.... andGeoff Johns.

Almost like when you work on classic characters you keep their core intact.

Even his creator-owned Irredeemable is just Kingdom Come extrapolated to the next level.

Not at all.

It makes for some fun popcorn reads but there's a reason people are like "Oh yeah, Waid's flash is good... but Johns Flash is DEFINITIVE."

No one outside of the Gator crowd has ever said that to me. Everyone has admitted they like Geoff Johns more as a human being.

Chuck not only created Bane, but created the best character in the DCU, Stephanie Brown.

Damnit Jon, you're not allowed to have a good opinion. I guess a broken clock and all that.

Still best is an overstatement.

And I'm really curious about how much Waid really gets out of Kingdom Come.

It's one of those great rewrites because you can never trust comic creatives at just their word. There's still a non-troversy over Louise Simonson and the New mutant's characters Rob Liefeld took credit for.

It was Alex Ross's brainchild and, if I'm remembering right, Waid was partnered with him on it by DC themselves.

Waid was hot at the time for Flash. Ross was coming off of Marvels and he needed another fanboy word monkey to put dialogue over his pictures. I think Waid's biggest contribution was small bits that later were fleshed out in The Kingdom.

And thanks for making me remember the mess that was Hypertime.

Your welcome. To be fair, The Kingdom had some good side one shots. But the story was garbage. Fun fact. Waid had 'creative differences' with Ross on the sequel and DC took his side.

Thy Kingdom with Geoff Johns was pretty much an attempt to fix the mess Waid and DC made of the series.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Very disappointed in Zack. I've said it before, Zack is his own worst enemy. When he's handed a good opportunity he always seems to choke.

Oh well. At least we've got Nasser.


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He's a whiny shekel grabby fiddling jew. That apology video was sad.

I'm sorry that Zack didn't see it through. But what he did do was establish that fucking with people's livelihoods would be costly. This held up both of their lives for two years.

Costly for plaintiffs. Yeah we can create 6 figure war chest but the defendants are people with deep pockets and can drag cases for years or could easily antislapp suits. The sjws won the culture war and now they can slander people and get away with it because the courts don't care.

 

[FROG]

The culture war didn’t hinge on this lawsuit. Jesus Christ.

 

[Francis York Morgan]

Thy Kingdom with Geoff Johns was pretty much an attempt to fix the mess Waid and DC made of the series.

While it's not perfect, Johns's JSA "sequel" to Kingdom Come is a more faithful and heartfelt follow-up than The Kingdom. Actually, just remembering it makes me want to go back and reread Johns entire JSA run but I'll save comic sperging for the other topic.

Anywho, the other thing I keep seeing tossed around is that Waid is getting to "write Superman again". He's getting a one-shot tie-in to Snyder's autistic edgelord event and is not attached to any of the Superman books announced for next year. That's hardly the run with the character that I'm sure Waid has dreamt of. I know that I initially imagined the worst when it was announced that he was doing something with them but it's looking like a nothingburger. I just wish that I could say it's out of a desire to avoid further controversy from a creator past his prime, but it's probably because they don't want to pay a Mark Waid rate.

 

[jspit2.0]

The culture war didn’t hinge on this lawsuit. Jesus Christ.

No, it hinged on the Hamburglar getting an SJW to humiliate himself.

Not saying anything more except to point out that Richard didn't have legs where the Quaterpounder did.

While it's not perfect, Johns's JSA "sequel" to Kingdom Come is a more faithful and heartfelt follow-up than The Kingdom. Actually, just remembering it makes me want to go back and reread Johns entire JSA run but I'll save comic sperging for the other topic.

Yeah, it's not anything great. Kindof like Geoff Johns entire career. Never 'brilliant' or 'definitive'. Just nice and comfy goodness except for the last couple of years when he clearly couldn't be bothered to give a shit.

I mean technically comics is in the name....

Anywho, the other thing I keep seeing tossed around is that Waid is getting to "write Superman again". He's getting a one-shot tie-in to Snyder's autistic edgelord event and is not attached to any of the Superman books announced for next year. That's hardly the run with the character that I'm sure Waid has dreamt of. I know that I initially imagined the worst when it was announced that he was doing something with them but it's looking like a nothingburger. I just wish that I could say it's out of a desire to avoid further controversy from a creator past his prime, but it's probably because they don't want to pay a Mark Waid rate.

Do we know who's definitively taking over for Bendis though? They haven't announced the next grand Superman pooh bah. You got Future State up into February/March. I wouldn't, I'm pretty confident in the next couple of years if DC is still open he's gonna be there taking one final dump on the character.

I was watching the orange retard's stream. Manlet that he is, Tyne is seething. He keeps passively aggressively quoting passages from here. (Liamyouareafuckingpussy). Totally disproving he's a crazy stalker gayz.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

The culture war didn’t hinge on this lawsuit. Jesus Christ.

Was winning the culture war Zach's purpose? It was already lost for the most part long before yesterday.

I thought the point was to right a wrong and set a precedent that might protect others in the future.

 

[Francis York Morgan]

Do we know who's definitively taking over for Bendis though? They haven't announced the next grand Superman pooh bah. You got Future State up into February/March. I wouldn't, I'm pretty confident in the next couple of years if DC is still open he's gonna be there taking one final dump on the character.

Phillip Kennedy Johnson was announced for both Superman and Action Comics last week. No idea whose bucket Tomasi took a piss in but I was really hoping he'd get one of those books again.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Marvel and DC. They're basically on life support

Life support? With the billions of dollars they get making movies I wish I was on life support.

The culture war didn’t hinge on this lawsuit. Jesus Christ.

But you said and I quote

"Your donations could change the comic book industry back into a safe place to do business, and avoid the harassment and threats of political extremists".

 

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Life support? With the billions of dollars they get making movies I wish I was on life support.

Marvel Comics is dying, and will basically be an IP holding firm in a few years. They're barely publishing anything and what they do doesn't sell for shit. Yeah, movies are great, big money. Well, were great, and were big money.

Either way, Waid and his little shitgoblin friends won't see a dime. Disney already owns the IP and has 80 years of back issues to farm comics out of and trained Hollywood script writers who are already in the in club to adapt the original comic characters and stories to the big screen. They don't NEED Waid et all, and they aren't going to PAY Waid et all.

But you said and I quote

"Your donations could change the comic book industry back into a safe place to do business, and avoid the harassment and threats of political extremists".

Correct. And it could have, had it gone to court and seen Waid get smacked down hard enough that future pieces of shit like him would think twice or companies would distance themselves from him just to be safe.

But Waid played shitty games, and like @FROG said, it's highly possible that Waid had lawyers doing the work for mostly free or a huge discount. If Meyer had another $750,000 or so to toss around to keep going, maybe we'd see it in court. But that's $750,000 Meyer could publish an entire series of comics using, or help publish other people's comics.

Frankly speaking, Meyer got what he needed out of Waid. Waid isn't going to pull this shit again, Waid's friends are too busy trying to convince Marvel/DC not to lay them off to do much, and Meyer has gotten enough proven work that "he's a YHAZII AND A WHITE SUPREEEME-A-CYST" isn't going to work. The entire legacy comics industry is too busy dying to try and gatekeep the entire indy scene, and with IGG refusing to play gatekeeper like KS, and even some pros going to IGG to the hooting chants of rage from the stunning and braves at Marvel/DC, welp.

It would have been really, really nice to see Waid get bent over and cornholed by the legal system. But frankly speaking, Waid's not worth Meyer's time anymore. And that, more than anything, should make everyone on the right side of the comics culture war feel a little warm and fuzzy.

 

[TheCosmicWarrior]

Damnit Jon, you're not allowed to have a good opinion. I guess a broken clock and all that.

My opinions are the best. People look through tribal lenses and don't look at what's actually being said and will go nuts because they want to see something that's not there. I was one of the first to say this lawsuit was a detraction from producing and supporting comics, and I got piled on for it hard in 2018. @NasserRabadi13 remembers and will verify if the internet doesn't. Of course, my Federalist work helped break Zack big into the mainstream to begin with too.

As far as Stephanie Brown -- the character was my first major red pill moment against the Big 2. When they canceled and stopped the Stephanie Brown Batgirl run by Bryan Q. Miller ( probably my #3 favorite comic run of all time), erased continuity with zero explanation to put in Barbara Gordon as a relaunch with Gail Simone, I was absolutely livid. I knew they didn't care about keeping story going, didn't care about progressing characters or creating anything new, it was all just a "let's do whacky things for clickbait then reset for the iconic movie brand all new #1".

Rinse. Repeat.

Flying Sparks exists because of the aborted botched reset known as the New 52. It's why I started making comics, and my book a spiritual successor to Stephanie Brown Batgirl. Characters matter. People will remember when characters have depth. Which is why so many readers love Flying Sparks despite War Campaign's attempted smear campaign on the book. Don't take my word, though. Go see what unbiased, non-tribal, reviewers like Nerdette and No. 1 Marmaduke have to say about it.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

But Waid played shitty games, and like @FROG said, it's highly possible that Waid had lawyers doing the work for mostly free or a huge discount.

But Frogs claims of "Its Not AbOuT dA CulTur WHaA" but stated its to "prevent other political discrimination attempts" and hyped it for 2 years but decided to wipe his hands clean saying it's not about the culture war when he hyped it up and created the gfm for that purpose is disingenuous.

Marvel Comics is dying, and will basically be an IP holding firm in a few years.

Dying yet anti sjws always buy the comics, the marvel legends figures, watch the movies on opening night and buy collectors editions of said dying product?

Yeah, movies are great, big money. Well, were great, and were big money.

Every marvel movie since civil war make a billion in opening weekend. The worst they do is 75mil.

Either way, Waid and his little shitgoblin friends won't see a dime.

Royalties says otherwise, especially when daredevil is reintroduced for marvel knights and kingdom come material.

 

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But Frogs claims of "Its Not AbOuT dA CulTur WHaA" but stated its to "prevent other political discrimination attempts" and hyped it for 2 years but decided to wipe his hands clean saying it's not about the culture war when he hyped it up and created the gfm for that purpose is disingenuous.

Yes, and?

The lawsuit wasn't about the culture war. It was about punishing Waid for him breaking the law and discouraging future behavior.

It served a purpose in the greater culture war, but it wasn't about the culture war.

Dying yet anti sjws always buy the comics, the marvel legends figures, watch the movies on opening night and buy collectors editions of said dying product?

SJWs don't buy anything, except maybe Funko pops. They pirate the shit off of ReadComicsOnline.IO or whatever. It's why that fucktarded "lifestyle brand" thing the diversity hire in charge at Marvel was pushing was so goddamned stupid.

Read the Diamond sales charts. There wasn't a single comic in the past 6 months that wouldn't have been canceled during Stan Lee's hayday. And that's with them playing games with the numbers.

 

[jspit2.0]

Yes, and?

The lawsuit wasn't about the culture war. It was about punishing Waid for him breaking the law and discouraging future behavior.

It served a purpose in the greater culture war, but it wasn't about the culture war.



SJWs don't buy anything, except maybe Funko pops. They pirate the shit off of ReadComicsOnline.IO or whatever. It's why that fucktarded "lifestyle brand" thing the diversity hire in charge at Marvel was pushing was so goddamned stupid.

Read the Diamond sales charts. There wasn't a single comic in the past 6 months that wouldn't have been canceled during Stan Lee's hayday. And that's with them playing games with the numbers.

Interrupting the ongoing attempt to convince us that bending the knee is winning, is there some reason Frog's stream isn't up with Shane Davis? He's been taking them down allot recently.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

But that's $750,000 Meyer could publish an entire series of comics using, or help publish other people's comics.

How many sales would he have gotten if not for suing Waid? What percentage of people only discovered him because of Waid? I'm guessing 80% of his customer base at least, probably a lot more.

His sales have already been slipping and now a significant portion of those customers will abandon him.