Vitiate was powerful but I never liked him as a character as much as Palpatine. Palpatine imo had a more interesting backstory and I always thought of him as being one of the most dangerous Sith Lord not because of his sheer power but because of his cunning. I wasn’t bugged by the notion of the modern sith losing a lot of raw power because there would inevitably be a lot of knowledge that gets lost between master and apprentice since each Sith Lord seemed to have their own philosophy and preferred powers. Also since there were only 2 of them there would be less collective knowledge and more importantly less development of dark side powers. Which is why both Palpatine and later Sideous tried to make up for this by having a large collection of sith artifacts, writings, holocrons, etc.
Palpatine was smarter, Vitiate was stronger.
I didn’t mind the New Jedi Order books having a new nemesis, I’m glad they didn’t rehash the Galactic Alliance v Imperial Remnant.
I mean, what else could the Imperial Remnant do? They tried everything from revived Emperors, to superweapons, to mass-produced Dark Jedi.
What used to bug me was that some would apologize for the Death Star and Palpatine. The Death Star was a major waste of resources that should’ve been spent elsewhere imo and there’s no guarantee that the Vong would have failed to defeat it or simply avoided it. Also, imo it’s clear as you said that the Sith cared about the Sith first and foremost.
It would have worked well against the Vong, and other foes that attacked you with massive numbers of ships and troops. It works well from a war of attrition standpoint, but if the enemy gets their hands on the blueprints and they have a Force-sensitive who can make the shot against the weak point, you're boned.
I know I complained previously about the Vong but that is what I liked about them as well. Although Star Wars has a lot of alien species a lot of times they came across as just tinted humans with a quirk or they would share a similar sense of morality to humans (there were exceptions). The Vong were completely alien in their thinking and culture. They also made Star Wars a lot darker which was a nice change of pace.
They actually were very alien, especially in their war-making.
What was cool about it is that it went the other way too. Like the Vong saw droids in a similar horrified way and everyone in Star Wars kinda took them for granted. This led to one of my favorite part of the series when Lando built those droids to screw with them.
Yep. He basically made the SW equivalent of terminators and utterly scared the crap out of them.
Even though I wasn’t a big fan of Palpatine coming back I did like how Luke & Leia progressed in the series. It also was pretty jarring to see him like that. With me at least I was like “wtf happened?” And I had to know... it may not have been the best plot line but it was better than the ST and it did a better job at marketing merch. It was also entertaining too.
Dark Empire was also well-loved by Lucas, as I remember:
Tom Veitch: "We had great response. I still get letters from people telling me that
Dark Empire was the best of the continuing stories, that it should be made into a movie, that it should be a novel, etc. George Lucas told me personally that he loved it. Some people had a problem with the bringing back of the emperor. But as I have explained elsewhere, we did that under George Lucas' direction. Originally we asked him if we could bring back Darth Vader, assuming that the empire would want to perpetuate the image of Vader in order to strike fear into the hearts of billions. So they would put somebody else inside the Vader costume, of course. But George nixed that and told us we could bring back the emperor."
I always under the impression that aliens with weird skin color and hair as simply evolved or mutated humans. I think the Twilleks were retconned that way as well since they can have kids with humans apparently.
Common ancestry, perhaps. Like the different elf species in Elder Scrolls that were all descended from an original Mer race.
Starkiller was ok. I liked the game more than the plot but the point of a game is to have fun. The plot is secondary.
Basically. The TFU games were a nice place to unwind and blow shit up with the Force.
Plagueis was killed by Sidious. By your "blow up planets" metric, that makes him more powerful.
Sidious killed Plagueis in his sleep. And then was unable to replicate his ability to create life, forcing Sidious to recruit Anakin, who was stronger in the Force than him.
"Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."
Oops. Looks like you forgot that one line Sidious spoke.
Yes, that's exactly my point.
That "point" being that there are Force feats and abilities that make the Death Star look like a pile of shit. Which we didn't see in the films, but Vader himself attests to the Force being stronger than the Death Star. If we go with only what we see in the films, he'd be a liar.
Because the Force can allow you to manipulate an entire galaxy into going to war with itself, not because the Force can allow you you to blow up
two planets simultaneously.
Nope. Palpatine didn't use the Force to manipulate people into going to war, he used political allies and psychological manipulation. Not an ounce of Force was used to start the Clone Wars. He could have started it even if he wasn't Force-sensitive, since all the political ingredients were there.
The Silmarillion was written by the same author as Lord of the Rings (merely edited by his son), and is arguably itself the primary text, from Tolkien's point of view. This is not remotely comparable to EU characters outmuscling the cast of Lucas's SW films.
Except Lucas had to approve of EU works before they were published. Dark Empire, the work that has Palpatine destroying whole fleets with his mind and repeatedly reviving himself via possessing new clone bodies, had Lucas' blessing, as author Tom Veitch states:
"We had great response. I still get letters from people telling me that
Dark Empire was the best of the continuing stories, that it should be made into a movie, that it should be a novel, etc. George Lucas told me personally that he loved it. Some people had a problem with the bringing back of the emperor. But as I have explained elsewhere, we did that under George Lucas' direction. Originally we asked him if we could bring back Darth Vader, assuming that the empire would want to perpetuate the image of Vader in order to strike fear into the hearts of billions. So they would put somebody else inside the Vader costume, of course. But George nixed that and told us we could bring back the emperor."
In that very same comic, the Dark Lords of the Sith laugh at Palpatine when he tries to command them to heal his last broken clone body, seeing him as beneath them. And Tales of the Jedi/SWTOR show us why they think Palpatine is beneath them: because they've had masters that were far more powerful than him. Their response to his command was a resounding "LOL NO, GO FUCK YOURSELF" before they showed him where Anakin Solo was, which led to Palpatine going on a suicide mission which ended with his death at the hands of an Order 66 survivor and Han Solo.
The other works likewise had approval from Lucas before being published, meaning that they too had his blessing.
Irrelevant. The fact remains that you simply don't turn children into cyborg assassins to suppress a colonial independence movement and remain any kind of moral person.
And Halsey was not the person guilty of that. That would be ONI. Blame Parangosky and the command staff at ONI, not Halsey, for they were the ones who gave the order. Halsey was just forced by the government to work on it.
That is literally what you are doing here: setting up a dick-measuring contest.
One that Mando'a loses to Klingon in terms of how many people know it and how pervasive it is in geek culture. As I said before, Klingon is the Latin of geekdom, whereas not that many people use Mando'a outside of Mando fanclubs. Heck, Team Four Star's Dragonball Z parody used Klingon as a stand-in for the Namekian language years ago, despite the fact that Klingon has nothing to do with DBZ.
I don't care what you or your friends think about a given piece of SW media. The original point of contention was your declaration that Mando'a was not really heard of outside of Republic Commando, which I disproved. Everything since then has been you tilting at strawmen.
Yeah, no. Again, SWTOR and the Revan Novel were hated by many fans when they came out. With many even outright stating them to be non-canon. This is why SWTOR is now a free-to-play game, and even before it became free to play, it was called "TORtanic" because it failed as a WoW-killer and didn't get as many people in as EA originally hoped. Which is why most fans have only heard of Mando'a from the Republic Commando game, which was popular during its time.
It's the cringe factor of your self-imposed echo chamber that prioritizes the inherently flawed storytelling medium of games above everything else.
It's the cringe factor of your self-imposed echo chamber that prioritizes novels that have fanfic-tier writing over games that actually try to tackle characters from balanced perspectives. KOTOR 2 actually tried to critique everything from the SW universe fairly: the Jedi, the Sith, the Mandalorians, the Republic, every side had its time to shine, and every side was criticized for their flaws in that game. Not to mention the fact that KOTOR 2 is well-loved by the SW fanbase, while TOR is not. That's why people are still making fanfilms of the KOTOR games, while TOR is barely lingering on to continue its much-maligned later stories. Most of the fans left after the vanilla game, and the few that remain mostly are there to just replay old stories that came out back in 2011, where most of the good writing for TOR was.
As a fan of TOR, I know all of this firsthand. Many KOTOR fans I speak to don't even want to talk about TOR, whereas they can talk for hours about KOTOR 2.
