Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

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One of the biggest plot holes of TNO that seriously ruins the immersion for me, is whenever Israel is formed in the Levant.

See, the game starts off with the Levant being owned by the Italians, and after their war with Turkey, the Levant can go a number of different directions.

For example, if the Italians win the Levant, they can perhaps make the entire Levant an independent state (that is still loyal to the Italians) led by a Jordanian King (King Hussein), which creates the Levantine Kingdom. Which makes reasonable sense.

Or, if the Italians mess up enough, Arab-Socialists can take over and proclaim the Levantine People's Republic. Still reasonable enough, although I don't know how Arab-Socialists in the Levant would get their 'start' without Nasser or others, but yeah it makes sense. That or if the Italians really fuck up that bad you get the Ultranationalist, Levantine Arab State that align themselves with the Ba'athists whenever the Oil Crisis happens.

That, or the Levant can either balkanize itself. Creating separate states which is similar to OTL's late 1940s borders, like Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, South Syria (if the Italians win) and an independent Jerusalem. Which, ehh, I can kinda understand, but how many Jews would live in the Levant to make an Israel?

There's plenty of Jews who remain in Germany as slaves (and can revolt as part of Abba Kovner's Partisans), and there's plenty of Jews in Madagascar where in the north of the island they constitute a majority of the culture. Granted, it's not that big of an Israel, more or less OTL's 'size', but I'd have a feeling that in TNO there wouldn't be as many Jews in the Levant, due to circumstances in the timeline.

Oh and the Levantine Confederation exists, I guess, as a wholesome100 succdem state but no one cares about it. It's led by Yasser Arafat or something, idk.

But then there's this shit right here.
View attachment 1921831

Israel in our timeline already has enough trouble with Palestinian Arabs as is. An Israel that covers the entire Levant, including Lebanon, Jordan, parts of Syria, and the Sinai? Realistically it should collapse within years due to the ethnic imbalance, especially since there's probably less Jews in the Levant compared to OTL. But no, it just... sits around, the entire game. Doing absolutely nothing, not even in the Oil Crisis or anything.

Weirdest thing, is that there's like zero world reactions to this. You'd think Germany (even under Speer) would be absolutely fuming at the idea of a Jewish state sitting not too far away from them, despite winning WW2?

Bormann would flip his shit as soon as he hears news of a 'Greater Israel' being formed and wouldn't hesitate to send the Abwehr to do something about it. Alongside a massive embargo against the Italians since they're technically responsible for it.
Speer probably does the same, Go4 would be seething as usual, but the entire populace would be enraged by such news and would practically beg the Fuhrer to do something about it.
Goring would just nuke Rome and Tel Aviv.
Heydritch is too busy joining the 41%.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify another thing, unlike in OTL, whenever Israel (and almost every route for the Levant barring the Kingdom route) is formed, I'm pretty sure they're 'alone'. The Italians aren't backing them anymore, and I played as the US countless times and I never seen any events of the US aiding Israel in TNO, whenever they pop up. So even more worse for the Jews in Israel, they're not only alone and lack any sort of international assistance, they also have to deal with a much bigger Arab population (the entire Levant as opposed to just Palestine) while also having less Jews than OTL in the first place.

So it still makes zero sense as to why they would even exist in TNO. If anything, going by the 'rules' of the mod, any Israel path should a 'fail state' since it'll inevitably collapse due to the circumstances. But of course the troons probably made it this way as a big "Take That!" or something.
I totally agree. Palestine should either go Arab nationalist or a monarchy depending on what happens in the "Arab cold war". There wouldn't be enough surviving Jewish population after an even deadlier holocaust to form Israel, let alone mega-Israel. Someone must have been an Israeli nationalist irredentist on the mod team.

A problem with HOI4 in general is that a lot of focus trees seem to be written by unrealistic irredentists. Bulgaria taking over the entire Balkans in the base game is a major example. The power of minor countries like Bulgaria should be very limited. Historically Bulgaria surrendered as soon as the Soviets arrived on the border!
 
I totally agree. Palestine should either go Arab nationalist or a monarchy depending on what happens in the "Arab cold war". There wouldn't be enough surviving Jewish population after an even deadlier holocaust to form Israel, let alone mega-Israel. Someone must have been an Israeli nationalist irredentist on the mod team.

A problem with HOI4 in general is that a lot of focus trees seem to be written by unrealistic irredentists. Bulgaria taking over the entire Balkans in the base game is a major example. The power of minor countries like Bulgaria should be very limited. Historically Bulgaria surrendered as soon as the Soviets arrived on the border!
I can see Stern (NatSoc/Kingdom of Israel) being 'crazy enough' to try form a Greater Israel when the Jewish population in the Levant is probably 60% smaller than in OTL, and have that spectacularly combust in about a year or two when they now have to rule over double the amount of Arabs compared to OTL. Of course, that's doing it 'TNO style', with 'bad end paths' and what-not.

As a suggestion, for Redux, Israel shouldn't even be possible and is at most a pipe-dream for radicals like Stern.

Maybe have a few events for stuff like the Levantine Kingdom or a 'moderate' Republican Levant, (I'm pretty sure the Arab Nationalists, whether lefty under Habash or right-wing under Jibril would ban Jews regardless.) where there are a handful (and I do mean a handful) of Jews who still remain, since they moved to Mandatory Palestine pre-WW2 and they're somewhat influential in the country. Maybe a few flavor events of stuff like how the Uzi submachinegun is developed but its known as a Levantine weapon rather than an Israeli weapon or something. In addition, you could also have a few Jewish generals and field marshals, but other than that, no formable Israeli state proper.

It felt like either there was an Israeli nationalist on the team and they let him in because kicking him out would be considered antiemetic, or they just wanted to find a way to shove Israel in the mod as a 'Take that! Haha you Nazis, even when the Nazis win WW2, Israel still exists, cope!' or something.
 
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It felt like either there was an Israeli nationalist on the team and they let him in because kicking him out would be considered antiemetic,
People would probably find TNO less vomit-inducing without the blatant bias towards certain countries (Israel and Russia) and bias against America. There's no way Japan beats America in GDP in the early 1960s, especially when Japan is using literal slavery in China.
 
. Which, ehh, I can kinda understand, but how many Jews would live in the Levant to make an Israel?
The justification is that Mussolini, before his death opened Italy for surviving jews to fuck with the germans after Italy's economy was destroyed by Alantropa.
But even with the holocaust being stopped in favor of slavery, seens unlikely enough jews could go to Italy and then to the levant and still be strong enough to survive the arab coalitions
 
Atlantropa is a fucking retarded idea and everyone who think It would have worked is a mongoloid.

I mean what does anyone think would happen if you drained the mediterranean? Suddenly you would have a desert, not a lush arable paradise!
Its wacky and I can praise it for that but if you aim for gritty realism you can't have a country draining its gdp ti drain a sea!
 
Yockey I get the impression was like the sort of far right people we see on the internet today, who vary between pretentious waffling and extreme crudeness (4chan is full of this). Aside from Imperium, he also wrote lesbian BDSM erotica, and I'd love to see some of that feature in game.


Most totalitarians are extremely lacking in pragmatism, which is why they generally tend to collapse eventually. China is the exception because they don't blind themselves with ideology and hubris too much to realise what is necessary. The mod is full of bad writing, but reformed fascist Speer succeeding in sustaining Germany is one of the few good parts, since he's the first totalitarian to realise how to make his country work in the long run.
>Lesbian BDSM erotica
Wait is that true? I need a source, plz
 
One of the biggest plot holes of TNO that seriously ruins the immersion for me, is whenever Israel is formed in the Levant.

See, the game starts off with the Levant being owned by the Italians, and after their war with Turkey, the Levant can go a number of different directions.

For example, if the Italians win the Levant, they can perhaps make the entire Levant an independent state (that is still loyal to the Italians) led by a Jordanian King (King Hussein), which creates the Levantine Kingdom. Which makes reasonable sense.

Or, if the Italians mess up enough, Arab-Socialists can take over and proclaim the Levantine People's Republic. Still reasonable enough, although I don't know how Arab-Socialists in the Levant would get their 'start' without Nasser or others, but yeah it makes sense. That or if the Italians really fuck up that bad you get the Ultranationalist, Levantine Arab State that align themselves with the Ba'athists whenever the Oil Crisis happens.

That, or the Levant can either balkanize itself. Creating separate states which is similar to OTL's late 1940s borders, like Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, South Syria (if the Italians win) and an independent Jerusalem. Which, ehh, I can kinda understand, but how many Jews would live in the Levant to make an Israel?

There's plenty of Jews who remain in Germany as slaves (and can revolt as part of Abba Kovner's Partisans), and there's plenty of Jews in Madagascar where in the north of the island they constitute a majority of the culture. Granted, it's not that big of an Israel, more or less OTL's 'size', but I'd have a feeling that in TNO there wouldn't be as many Jews in the Levant, due to circumstances in the timeline.

Oh and the Levantine Confederation exists, I guess, as a wholesome100 succdem state but no one cares about it. It's led by Yasser Arafat or something, idk.

But then there's this shit right here.
View attachment 1921831

Israel in our timeline already has enough trouble with Palestinian Arabs as is. An Israel that covers the entire Levant, including Lebanon, Jordan, parts of Syria, and the Sinai? Realistically it should collapse within years due to the ethnic imbalance, especially since there's probably less Jews in the Levant compared to OTL. But no, it just... sits around, the entire game. Doing absolutely nothing, not even in the Oil Crisis or anything.

Weirdest thing, is that there's like zero world reactions to this. You'd think Germany (even under Speer) would be absolutely fuming at the idea of a Jewish state sitting not too far away from them, despite winning WW2?

Bormann would flip his shit as soon as he hears news of a 'Greater Israel' being formed and wouldn't hesitate to send the Abwehr to do something about it. Alongside a massive embargo against the Italians since they're technically responsible for it.
Speer probably does the same, Go4 would be seething as usual, but the entire populace would be enraged by such news and would practically beg the Fuhrer to do something about it.
Goring would just nuke Rome and Tel Aviv.
Heydritch is too busy joining the 41%.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify another thing, unlike in OTL, whenever Israel (and almost every route for the Levant barring the Kingdom route) is formed, I'm pretty sure they're 'alone'. The Italians aren't backing them anymore, and I played as the US countless times and I never seen any events of the US aiding Israel in TNO, whenever they pop up. So even more worse for the Jews in Israel, they're not only alone and lack any sort of international assistance, they also have to deal with a much bigger Arab population (the entire Levant as opposed to just Palestine) while also having less Jews than OTL in the first place.

So it still makes zero sense as to why they would even exist in TNO. If anything, going by the 'rules' of the mod, any Israel path should a 'fail state' since it'll inevitably collapse due to the circumstances. But of course the troons probably made it this way as a big "Take That!" or something.
We made it so the majority of jews fled to the United States (the US is the last den of remaining jews), some will be in israel and if they rise up, italy will have a hadrian x100 moment.
As for the holocaust, it didn't happen.
 
In the
We made it so the majority of jews fled to the United States (the US is the last den of remaining jews), some will be in israel and if they rise up, italy will have a hadrian x100 moment.
As for the holocaust, it didn't happen.
I mean, in TNO the Madagascar Plan happened, there is a faction of jews in the Collapse of German Madagascar,will this be removed?
 
Atlantropa is a fucking retarded idea and everyone who think It would have worked is a mongoloid.

I mean what does anyone think would happen if you drained the mediterranean? Suddenly you would have a desert, not a lush arable paradise!
Its wacky and I can praise it for that but if you aim for gritty realism you can't have a country draining its gdp ti drain a sea!
Besides, like an guy pointed on reddit, that requires another dam for Venice otherwise the city will de destroyed the moment the wood that keep it over the sea rotten without water. And of course basically everything under the alps would be slowly turned into another part of the Sahara.
 
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The newer spiedel is.......

There.
b510f79.png
 
In the

I mean, in TNO the Madagascar Plan happened, there is a faction of jews in the Collapse of German Madagascar,will this be removed?
Considering that germany didn't magically somehow take a good chunk of africa, the madagascar plan couldn't happen, so they just forced the jews out, the US took them in, as well as some moving to palestine while the Italians were indiferent while also wanting to be spiteful towards germany.
 
They got enough concrete to build a dam that would be at least 15km and who knows how deep and the Iberians agreed.
 
Considering that germany didn't magically somehow take a good chunk of africa, the madagascar plan couldn't happen, so they just forced the jews out, the US took them in, as well as some moving to palestine while the Italians were indiferent while also wanting to be spiteful towards germany.
So Germany will no longer control a large chunk of Sub-Saharan Africa.
 
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Still disappointed that none of the post cold war mods have managed to do anything special with the tech you would have available after the war. Helicopters are just an alternative to CAS or another special support company to add to your division to make the numbers go higher.

I had the idea that you could try to turn units with helicopter battalions added to it into basically the knights on the chessboard. If you attack a frontline with a division that has a helicopter equipped battalion or support company the enemy division will receive the encircled penalty as theoretically you would be able to transport troops for air assaults behind enemy fortifications. It would also then be a serious debuff to enemy fortifications. It would also make your division faster at redeploying within territory you hold, and possibly use it to occupy territory behind enemy lines just like you can with paratroopers in the base game.

Another idea is to implement special forces sea landings using submarines. The idea being that with a special forces division you could use submarines to land troops and equipment into enemy territory without controlling the ocean. The risk of course being the division is smaller and not as well equipped as a regular division, but could be devastating towards a foe that thinks that parking his entire navy on the coast somehow means there's no need to keep troops at home to defend the coastline.
You could even have a special event where Japan or Germany could use political power and equipment to launch a sea invasion of the US using container ships loaded with troops and equipment just like the game World in Conflict.
 
Still disappointed that none of the post cold war mods have managed to do anything special with the tech you would have available after the war. Helicopters are just an alternative to CAS or another special support company to add to your division to make the numbers go higher.

I had the idea that you could try to turn units with helicopter battalions added to it into basically the knights on the chessboard. If you attack a frontline with a division that has a helicopter equipped battalion or support company the enemy division will receive the encircled penalty as theoretically you would be able to transport troops for air assaults behind enemy fortifications. It would also then be a serious debuff to enemy fortifications. It would also make your division faster at redeploying within territory you hold, and possibly use it to occupy territory behind enemy lines just like you can with paratroopers in the base game.

Another idea is to implement special forces sea landings using submarines. The idea being that with a special forces division you could use submarines to land troops and equipment into enemy territory without controlling the ocean. The risk of course being the division is smaller and not as well equipped as a regular division, but could be devastating towards a foe that thinks that parking his entire navy on the coast somehow means there's no need to keep troops at home to defend the coastline.
You could even have a special event where Japan or Germany could use political power and equipment to launch a sea invasion of the US using container ships loaded with troops and equipment just like the game World in Conflict.
All that good potential, gone to waste.

1613437815991.png


And someone reported Cass online, lol.
 
Atlantropa is a fucking retarded idea and everyone who think It would have worked is a mongoloid.

I mean what does anyone think would happen if you drained the mediterranean? Suddenly you would have a desert, not a lush arable paradise!
Its wacky and I can praise it for that but if you aim for gritty realism you can't have a country draining its gdp ti drain a sea!
Atlantropa is portrayed as a complete disaster that fucks over Italy and Turkey economically because it makes many of their ports useless in exchange for a bunch of salt flats that are about as productive as the remnants of the Aral Sea today. The issue is still that Atlantropa is completely retarded and unworkable with 20th century technology but the Nazis do it anyway because lol Nazis. It seems like an attempt at a 'take that' to the Nazi superscience trope but it falls flat because it's in something that claims to be grounded like TNO instead of something like Wolfenstein, it's something you'd expect a 2150s Reich to try, not a 1950s one. There's better ways to show the hubris of the Nazis like having their space program or Welthaupstadt Germania end up being an expensive failure but they wanted the spectacle of 'lol Nazis tried to dam up the Mediterranean but obviously it failed because they're stupid Nazis amirite?'
 
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