Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

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Dave Sim was an admitted Pedo/MAP in 1985 when it came to this little girl (the "first" one). What makes him a creep is that while he understands that other people who can throw him in jail know it's wrong, he doesn't actually know why it's wrong and hasn't purged that stupid fantasy from his mind. He never actually slept with her as a child even though he admittedly loved her. Enter the virtuous non-practicing pedophile.

You do miss the bit where he said that when he first met her at a convention he assumed, because of her behaviour and appearance, that she was a lot older. That doesn't quite gel with the MAP/Pedo diagnosis.

As to the child-like features, that's not something that's unique to Sim. You want to draw pretty women you make their features more childlike, be it manga, Disney, or newsprint cartoons like Blondie, Now that's not to say all artists are pedos, just that when they want to express 'prettiness' they use these conventions. In fact you could argue that the very concept of cuteness for adult women relates to hold 'child-like' they look.

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Blondie

Fortunately in my own work I prefer drawing MILFy slappers, as, IMHO, innocence and cuteness is boring as hell.
 
I'm with you on pretty much this whole post. I hold reverence for Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, but I recognize that Stan was the right man for promoting the works. Jack did get the short end but he could have been part of the promotion as well and did not. His other works didn't stick as well without being ran through someone else. You can point to the Fourth World as having an impact in DC comics, but that wasn't until that was brought into the DC universe... after he had left DC. He had the ideas, but other people had to make them work. That was the role Stan had in their partnership. It's similar to George Lucas. The first three Star Wars movies had other people involved in the story to make George's vision work better, then the prequel trilogy was made with George having nobody to fix the things that didn't work and they were seen as a disappointment (at least until Disney came along and fucked everything up). Getting back to Kirby though, the stuff he put out in the later years just didn't get much traction. I have some of the Topps comics he put out, and I could probably name the titles here and nobody would recognize them. I think Jack needed somebody to work with to make his works as great as they could have been.
Yeah some people can write, some can draw, and it's rare that somebody is great at both. Love Kirby but he did need a writer.
 
From another angle: if you're a fan of Cyberfrog, does that hinge on believing he isn't a terrible person: that you don't believe he's a leader of all or part of the CG shenanigans behind the scenes?

If you don't believe Ethan was part of it, could you foresee anything Ethan might do to sour you on Cyberfrog? What if he openly admitted to gayops sometime in the future?



Every and any book that isn't a deplorable SJW fantasy is comparatively "great." What are you looking forward to the most from this character?



I'll be fine with any. Pond level to start? I'm trying to filter out what is purely enthusiasm for Ethan's personal story versus the Cyberfrog property. I've had times where I really could have done without hearing one more thing about Stan Lee's earlier career as a two-bit writer taking complete advantage of Jack Kirby's mega talent. But the fact is my enjoyment of these characters is quite independent of my appreciation for the character of Stan Lee, at least at that stage in his life.
I am not a fan of Cyberfrog nor of EVS.

But I do remember stumbling upon his artwork while reading DC comics, but it really fits Cyberfrog and his more slow progress (or Kyle's colouring) actually makes it better. He is good at making aliens and cool mosters and overdetailed scenery. If he could make one or two high quality albums a year (like the French do) he would be making even more money imho.

@FROG is a pussy that canceled his collaboration with Dave Sim because of ridiculous social pressure. He's no better than the "sjw" types yells about.

He'll capitulate to whatever social pressure because he's a money whore.
If there is one cow in the North American comic book industry, it is Dave Sim.
And I say that after witnessing all the twitter retardation of comicbook pros.

Yes, the first 5 or 6 Cerebus phonebooks are works of genious. His essays on the indy comicbook industry? Amazing.
After that, there are glimmers of greatness throughout Cerebus, but most of it is pendantic, unreadable trash.

For those not aware of Dave Sim or Cerebus, He was a Canadian dude who did a funny animal Conan parody that evolved into a sociopolitical satire and then a literary comicbook. At some point early on, he had a bad acid trip and got hospitalized. While there, he had a vision that he was going to make a huge epic graphic novel that would be 300 issues long.
His material could probably fill 200 issues and so he just padded it out to 300 issues, while throwing in famous authors, Woody Allen and a ton of very slow progression, because "he wanted it to feel like one of those European movies" and "wanted to write dialogue like real people talk".
And we talk about a comicbook that, during its golden age, could spend an issue of Cerebus explaining a joke or issues of him running up a tower.

So, Dave Sim in his prime was an awful pick for a superhero comicbook paying tribute to the 90's.

He is also the man responsible for writing for trade (since he was the first to collect all his issues in trade and offer them forever) and Cerebus is what inspired Neil Gaiman to write Sandman.
He convinced a lot of chumps to self-publish their trash comics (and lose their houses) and he was the one to start throwing parties at conventions and had a rock star thing going for him.

Now, Dave Sim had a gradual breakdown.
His anti-feminist essay was some great writing of his own ideas, that were therefor quirte some time. In his "Church and State" comicbook arc, he had evil feminazi mujahideen taking over the world.
The way his political ideas went into the story of Cerebus though was not that great. His "Women" "Reads" "Minds" "Guys" arcs were a dip into insanity (but Guys was sort of good). and the essays in those issues were walls of text of someone who was already lost.
I skipped most of "Latter days" and "Last days" arcs simply because my eyes were bleeding with the stupidity of it all, but then again the final issues were a Masterpiece.
His antics, like challenging Jeff Smith (of Bone) to a boxing match was what kicked him out of the industry (he, himself created). Most of his work in the 90's and 00's is unreadable trash. His essays turned into some pendantic trash and he got lost in some sort of a fantasy world where he was a champion of Abrahamic religious values while evil feminazis where trying to destroy male society.

His coming clean about the pedo stuff is actually redeeming compared to his entire life's work.


I have read that he is bipolar and I believe it.
He is a great example of a very disturbed artist who made some great works in the early days, then got lost to his derangement.
 
Since we're all having a good healthy slapfight over the comics 'art', or lack thereof, I have a small heresy that I want to vent here.

I know there's this comics orthodoxy of Stan Lee being the bad guy hack. And Kirby/Ditko being the good guy artists. For example, Alan Moore never missed an opportunity to take a jab at Stan, when Stan was alive, and I think that had a big influence on the general consensus, especially at the more high-falutin' end of comicbook dorkdom.

But I've got to say, I'm not on board with it. I think Kirby and Ditko are overrated! And Stan is underrated.

Now before comics dorks start flinging shit at me, let me explain why I have come to this line of heretical comics dork wrongthinking.
I agree.

Kirby and Ditko knew hoqw to make great comics.
Lee knew how to make comics that resonated with readers and sell them. And he continued after they left Marvel.

McFarlane is more of a business guru guy, all chad and bravado and a great mind for investments.
Sad to say, but the only other people who were as impactful as Lee to US comics were Dave Sim and Alan Moore.
 
Stan Lee's influence at Marvel was more editorial than as a writer.

Did he write Spider-Man and Fantastic Four? Yeah, kinda. He approved stories and made suggestions to artists before they created a story. Then when the art came back he filled in the dialogue and descriptions. His style worked despite being seen as hokey in retrospect.

Did he improve on the work of Kirby and Ditko? Sure that's the job of an editor. But improving on the work of the creator of a story or character does not make you the driving creative force.

Stan Lee deserved all the credit he gets for promoting and guiding the Marvel Age of comics but the credit he got for creating the characters and stories he took credit for as writer just doesn't mesh with reality.

I'm with you on pretty much this whole post. I hold reverence for Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, but I recognize that Stan was the right man for promoting the works. Jack did get the short end but he could have been part of the promotion as well and did not. His other works didn't stick as well without being ran through someone else. You can point to the Fourth World as having an impact in DC comics, but that wasn't until that was brought into the DC universe... after he had left DC. He had the ideas, but other people had to make them work. That was the role Stan had in their partnership. It's similar to George Lucas. The first three Star Wars movies had other people involved in the story to make George's vision work better, then the prequel trilogy was made with George having nobody to fix the things that didn't work and they were seen as a disappointment (at least until Disney came along and fucked everything up). Getting back to Kirby though, the stuff he put out in the later years just didn't get much traction. I have some of the Topps comics he put out, and I could probably name the titles here and nobody would recognize them. I think Jack needed somebody to work with to make his works as great as they could have been.
Jack's Captain Victory stuff (which wasn't terrible) was done at the end of his life in failing health.

Frank Miller's best writing was from the 80's and 90's. No one in their right mind would say that he's not a good writer because later on he did All Star Bat-Man and Holy Terror.

There aren't a lot of creators who do their best work at the end of their careers. Most have a decline.

Yeah some people can write, some can draw, and it's rare that somebody is great at both. Love Kirby but he did need a writer.
Moron.

Nasser, Jack Kirby's work for DC in the seventies represents the twilight of his career. It's a period when his health and creativity wasn't what it used to be and he still created Darkseid, Mr Miracle, Orion, the rest of the New Gods, Kamandi and so much more.

He was better at comics in this time nearing the end of his career than you could hope to be in your entire lifetime.

Shit on Kirby's work when you've done something superior to Moon Boy and Devil Dinosaur, The Eternals or Machine Man (all of which he created in his last tenure at Marvel) let alone his Fourth World stuff after the writing style of his heyday had fallen from fashion.

You write shit no one cares about and hope they buy it because they recognize you from Ethan's YouTube. How do you think your creations rank next to Kirby's work without Stan Lee?

No one on this planet thinks Jack Kirby's work would benefit from a collaboration with a "writer" like you.

Start talking shit when your own work stands on it's own and you don't have to guzzle jizz from the guy who kicked you off the gravy train just to sell it.
 
McFarlane is more of a business guru guy, all chad and bravado and a great mind for investments.
Sad to say, but the only other people who were as impactful as Lee to US comics were Dave Sim and Alan Moore.

Don't forget Robert Crumb too.
Jim Shooter's tenure as EIC at Marvel had a massive impact on comics at every level.

Most of it good.

Yeah some people can write, some can draw, and it's rare that somebody is great at both. Love Kirby but he did need a writer.

To be honest I haven't read all of those.
Perhaps you shouldn't be talking shit about what you've never read then.

I've never done that. I've never said anything but good things about Kirby's work, outside of the fact that Stan Lee made the books better. Kirby is one of my favorite artists but he wouldn't have found the success he had without Stan.
Kirby helped train Stan at Timely. While Stan was fetching coffee Kirby was creating Captain America and Red Skull.

"I went down and got them their lunch, I did proofreading, I erased the pencils from the finished pages for them" - Stan Lee

Stan Lee was an editor who took a writing credit. Stan owes Jack his career. Not the other way around.
 
Shouldn't this whole Stan v. Jack thing be in the sperg about comics thread?

As a person who's extensively studied all of this, there's a wave of Stan haters coming out but he did more than they give him credit for. Conversely Kirby and Ditko did more than Stan gave them credit for.

Moron.

Nasser, Jack Kirby's work for DC in the seventies represents the twilight of his career. It's a period when his health and creativity wasn't what it used to be and he still created Darkseid, Mr Miracle, Orion, the rest of the New Gods, Kamandi and so much more.

As far as this pure retardedness, you can tell there's a vast difference between Stan dialogue and Jack dialogue when Jack does it. I will have an Eternals review up soon and it's quite obvious Jack does not have the even close to panache Stan had, as nice as the art and concepts are.
 
As far as this pure retardedness, you can tell there's a vast difference between Stan dialogue and Jack dialogue when Jack does it. I will have an Eternals review up soon and it's quite obvious Jack does not have the even close to panache Stan had, as nice as the art and concepts are.
I gave Stan credit for what he did. He edited, contributed ideas and wrote or rewrote dialogue.

For this he took credit for creating what others did the lions share of the work on.

Acknowledging this is not hating on Stan. It's correcting a misconception. Stan was great. He just wasn't all that we were led to believe.

Frank Miller isn't spectacular at dialogue either but I wouldn't have Stan rewriting his Dare Devil stuff to add panache and give him a writer credit.
 
Got a short one today. Ya Boi decided to take a shot at Joe Glass whining about his kickstarter shitting the bed because of books like BZRKR and Power Rangers "pushing" him out of the market to the tune of Rocky's speech about success from Rocky 1. It's funny, but as he shows in the end Rock N Roll Ninja can't even break 50k with a few hours left, get it together buddy.


The Miracles - Comic Refugees in the Real World Family Drama by Joe G_ - www.kickstarter.com.png

joeglass.png
 
Got a short one today. Ya Boi decided to take a shot at Joe Glass whining about his kickstarter shitting the bed because of books like BZRKR and Power Rangers "pushing" him out of the market to the tune of Rocky's speech about success from Rocky 1. It's funny, but as he shows in the end Rock N Roll Ninja can't even break 50k with a few hours left, get it together buddy.


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YBZ is waking up to 2020.
First he does a JSG type video, then he realizes that he could do some of his non-superhero books as patreon rewards instead of crowdfunders (which is a great idea for smaller creators, have patreons fund the art of their comicbooks and then crowdfund books that only cover the printing)

Ma Boi is growing up...
 
What's the deal with YBZ's campaign for Meep ?

He hasn't put up any perks and the campaign supposedly has only 4 days left and it has raised an astonishing $0.00 so far.
 
What's the deal with YBZ's campaign for Meep ?

He hasn't put up any perks and the campaign supposedly has only 4 days left and it has raised an astonishing $0.00 so far.
That's the old Rock N Roll Ninja's campaign page. I guess he can't forcibly close that page until the clock runs out or he just doesn't know how, so he renamed it and is refunding anyone who actually backs that one by accident.
 
To put this in perspective of Scivergate, if any of the cutthroat tactics employed by company men like Stan the Man in his day were exposed in real time like they are now, you could probably forget about a graceful fade into the sunset. It probably would have meant Stan disappearing for a while before crawling back. Not as severe as what might have happened to Bob Kane had it been common knowledge what he did to Bill Finger. The comic book industry has been a creative sweathouse for so long that I wouldn't be shocked if most of the professionals working inside it were accustomed to pulling some outrageous CYA moves just to stay in the mix.. and that's before the SJW invasion. The extreme pressure to produce has given at least 2 industries in Film and TV a near infinite creative well to draw from but the human toll was steep.

Sciverfrog is by no means the worst to come out of that system, but he is the only one who posts here and tries to use it to his own advantage. The fear and intimidation of not wanting to be excluded from a career doesn't exist here, so I think that's why Ethan is reduced to using the "obsession" card when the red carpet isn't unfurled for him. I personally can't stand the attempted gaslighting, particularly when we have the receipts on his activities all over this thread. For the most part I think he's looking for dirt on his adversaries, especially now that his WC brownnose shirts have been politically discarded. I can't say for sure, but it seems like he's been posting here a lot more since the breakup.
 
(which is a great idea for smaller creators, have patreons fund the art of their comicbooks and then crowdfund books that only cover the printing)
Agreed. I was trying to do this too, then all my patrons left when I rejoined CG. I should start pushing it again, because that would really help cover costs if I got a decent amount monthly.
 
You write shit no one cares about and hope they buy it because they recognize you from Ethan's YouTube.

Start talking shit when your own work stands on it's own and you don't have to guzzle jizz from the guy who kicked you off the gravy train just to sell it.

Savage but true. :story: This is 100x more based advice than telling you how to sell a couple more Amazon souvenirs I went to Nasser's channel and all I got was this lousy book by not narrating reddit threads in your youtube videos.
 
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