I don't understand the point some of you are trying to make. That Chauvin didn't act in the most optimal way in hindsight?
Well obviously, the man didn't have hindsight. In these kinds of situations what's being judged is whether the police officer acted reasonably considering the situation, his training and the means at hand. With that in mind I don't know how anyone can think this man
Everything he did was within his training and reasonable considering the situation. Floyd was a large man, obviously out of his mind on one substance or another, due to that or perhaps despite it he wasn't being fully compliant. You can see this in the full video, the guy is doing everything he can to make things more difficult. Struggling against the cops, pushing away from the back of that car, saying he's claustrophobic, that he can't breathe(This is before being on the ground), this hurts, that hurts ect. Now in this situation what do you do? You can wrestle this guy into the car, but to do that you either need to apply a lot of force quickly and decisively or risk something going wrong(Like the guy getting your gun, punching you, grabbing one of your fellow officers, slithering away).
I don't know what the safest method is; but I know knee on neck is pretty risky and can fathom that having three other guys sit on him and just avoiding his neck might be a bit better, even on the pr;
or you know, restraining him upright, turning him over on his front.
Hay, cuff him to a post if you want.
If knee on neck is the "safest way to subdue suspects" and we can't have an honest conversation about where Chauvin fucked up in refusing to switch to any other restraint past a certain point, even after we both agree it wasn't murder,
We're fucked.
First of all, you say knee on neck is risky? You know what else is risky? Having a big ass man on drugs not properly secured. The guy could do anything from shaking you off and hurting someone, hurting himself or ingesting drugs. You want him as tightly secured as possible because the guy is obviously losing his shit. You can see they don't even restrain him that much at first. He's moving his upper body about and wriggling about saying "I can't breathe, my knee hurts, my stomach hurts"
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I'm glad you have all these great ideas about how a suspect should be restrained, but I think I'll veer on the side of the people who are putting their health and the health of the people that live in that area on the line. Not to mention actually receive training and have experience in these matters. For every case where a cop looks like he's going too far, there's 20 where a moment of softness leads to buttload of complications and potentially casualties. (reminder that in the Jacob Blake case armchair officers were saying they should have tackled the man. If they did that and the guy slammed his head against the pavement and died I wonder if they would have had the same take)
Now knee on neck you say?
I guess knee on upper back and then knee on neck at some 5 second point during a 50 minute arrest event doesn't sound as good for the media.
Also from his body position I am pretty sure that he wasn't applying that much force on the guy regardless. Try it out yourself and see how you have to lean and position to apply a lot of pressure that way.
Within the statute (1) applies. Culpable negligence is creating unreasonable risk. What is unreasonable is going to be determined by the court, but it will probably read something along the lines of "you didn't know if his overdose was fatal or not, but choosing to continue the knee-to-neck choke even without that information added in additional risk we do not deem reasonable".
Thats also where we disagree. He was negligent as far as it appears. His training, I guarantee you, does not include "once you start knee on neck, you absolutely cannot stop, you cant switch to another procedure, this is the safest procedure in the book, even when your other officers are saying dude we should do something else, you are trained not to stop".
He did not create the situation, but he mishandled it.
He did take chances of death, because knee-on-neck past the point of "bro, should we use another hold, hes not really breathing very well" is consciously taking chances of death.
It's obvious Chauvin is taking it easy on this guy, the officers are discussing on what he might be with them thinking it might be PCP. PCP absorbs through the skin, removes your ability to feel pain and because of that makes you able to exhibit preternatural strength. These things combined make someone on PCP: Angry, Delusional, Super-Strong and Untouchable with bare hands unless you want to become drugged up(Which could kill you since you don't have tolerance like the druggie does). This is why officers are thought to use gloves and could potentially be the reason they don't want to switch Floyd about a bunch. It's a very reasonable course of action to take considering the circumstances.
Consider that most people don't understand what it feels like to try to restrain someone who is genuinely trying to get away and or hurt you. You need more people, way more people. And if you aren't willing to hurt them maybe even more than that. This is why decent self-defense courses teach people to just run even if they think they can't. It turns out in 99.9% of cases they can. Consider that if this guy ran and hurt someone you'd be here saying Chauvin should have suplexed him into the curb. These are real situations where things are at stake and you have to make choices with imperfect knowledge.
The second degree manslaughter might stick for the aforementioned reasons though. Did his actions contribute to Floyds death or did he fail to act in a way to mitigate the situation? I don't think anything could have prevented Floyd's death, but I do think the court is going to find that he did fuck up pretty badly with how he handled the situation and probably should have switched to an upright hold with the other three cops helping. Over there, I don't think he did everything in his power that was reasonable to try and help the situation.
His goal isn't to just help Chauvin, he's not an MD. His goal is to keep him from committing more unlawful actions, apprehend him and do his best to keep him safe. What are you basing the idea that he didn't do what was reasonable to help him? Reminder that he was restrained in this way because he was flopping about and hurting himself. It's not reasonable to demand they do that under the circumstances. People screaming to let him go and perps screaming they're dying is the usual not the exception. Watch some other arrests in black areas and you'll see the same shit.
The max sentence for that is 10 years. Hes already basically served about a year in remand, so thats knocked down to 9~ at the max now. He also may lose time for good behavior (though with such a short sentence + due to the public perception, probably not). At the end of the day, I'm hoping that this is how the trial turns out and antifa really doesnt get what they wanted. He should pay some price for his fuckup, but not life, and not hard time for decades.
Antifa is going to sperg out anyways. BLM is going to sperg out anyways, but thats on them...
Antifa already got what they wanted, they got it the moment Blacks and Antifa lost their shit and committed crimes with no repercussions and the powers that be supported them. They got what they wanted the moment people's heads were filled with 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Do you understand that most people, most non-politically active people think this shit was a racial execution. What do you think that means for the future.
It's not on Antifa, it's not on BLM they won't suffer for this. The average person is, more specifically a certain type of average person. Following the Fentanyl Fraud event, policing on black people went down but went up for white people. Why? Hint, it wasn't because of actual crimes happening.
Every public official now knows what he must and mustn't do if he doesn't want to be publicly destroyed, every Police Chief knows what orders to issue, where to police and how to treat certain officers. And every police officers knows that even if they follow the book, even if they do everything that can be reasonably expected from them it won't matter as long as the suspect is black. Even the dispatcher on the George Floyd call sighs when the callers says Floyd is black. So now black people know they can get away with it, and that if they don't they'll be martyred. Cops will do everything they can to not end up like Chauvin, so policing of Black people will be avoided, but crime will go up. The amount of people they're expected to arrest and police is going to go up, who do you think they'll go after. Can't go after Blacks, and any raise in other minority arrests will cause a shit avalanche. They'll go after the only safe group. White people, mostly white men.
So with all of that shit coming down the neck of America I think "Antifa" and "BLM" got exactly what they wanted. It's not an attack charge, it's a victory dance.
