ANTIFA / Antifascist Action / Antifaschistische Aktion - The anti-fascist gang with fascist tendencies

[White Devil]

Those "real punk" bands suck too. IMO, they're the worst of a very bad lot.

Well, your subjective taste in music is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Well, your subjective taste in music is bad and you should feel bad.

Punk is one of the most pretentious and pseudo-intellectual genres and subcultures out there.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Antifa can go fuck themselves.

 

[White Devil]

Punk is one of the most pretentious and pseudo-intellectual genres and subcultures out there.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Antifa can go fuck themselves.

 

[Syaoran Li]

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Of those who are better read and dedicated to their political convictions, their ideal place would probably resemble the Paris Commune, Anarchist Catalonia, Makhnovia or even CHAZ prior to shit going downhill fast.

Used to be an anarchist who was "well read". Still probably am. CNT-FAI Barcelona or the Paris Commune have major problems that most anarchists don't want to admit, and not just referring to the burning of nuns.

These places only functioned at a mass level without government because the people were so indoctrinated within the ideology and you had a cult like mob basically enforcing social norms.

Is that the free individual anarchists should imagine? Fuck no.

You're right about the punk bands thing being where most people get their "anarchist" ideology from, and once they read a bit, they may get more familiar with the ideologies finer points.

Read a bit more, and you start to actually see views that are neither left wing, nor right wing explicitly and actually anarchist (Maybe Sorel, Mutualism, etc). Within those schools, you have interesting historical tidbits like how job boards in France were a push by anarchists in local towns so people could be journeymen and shit.

Actually read extensively, and I promise you- you will go post left, youre going to go more libertarian/capitalist and where youll come out is something akin to the libertarians, but maybe more emphasis on volunteering in your community or being socially concious but not demanding shit of other people and also not the "but what if the child consents".

Used to be very active in these circles in the early 2010s in my university days, and pretty much any one Id actually consider an anarchist back then turned libertarian in one shade or the other.

Most anarchists as well are basically just confused marxists, who don't know the intricacies of that ideology either, refuse to acknowledge the history of awful shit done in its name, and don't even know the history of "their own" ideology. I actually miss the days when most anarchists were just confused punks, it was at least more consistent and less toxic than confused marxists.

Interestingly enough, actual communists fucked over both the anarchist militias in Spain and the Makhonovtsy the second they outlived their usefulness.

Makhno does make me sad, because the dude was pretty cool and his movement was cool as well. Dude was basically a bandit, much to the ire of most "anarchists" and really the closest thing we have to a modern robin hood/pirate mix. His stuff was more just green anarchism and scaring off random land owners and letting peasants do their own shit. Could it have worked? In the long run, not really, because a bunch of peasants just chilling out and farming is cool and all until 30 years later German tanks appear on the horizon.

CNT-FAI Catalonia does make me sad because did read files from the NKVD and the way they destroyed that movement and tortured Andreau Nin, but the CNT-FAI were also assholes who burnt nuns alive, so they deserved some karma for that. Was more than just peasant farmers though, both in being vile to their enemies and in terms of light industry.

Never understood the appeal of living in an anarchist state like Liberia or most of Brazil and most definitely don't get the appeal of a communist one. Even in my teens the idea of living in a lawless hell would have unnerved me.

Aye, I really despise most lawless places because they just turn into shitshows like the CHAZ or basically Mad Max or "SQUATOPIA!!". I only ever want to see anarchism happen at a small scale in a pluralistic way, because mass movements turn to shit almost immediately. In the fleshspace, Id maybe want to see people pull off something like the amish or mennonites, keeping up society, having decent enough markets and more social consciousness. In the non-flesh space, stuff like blockchain and the cryptoanarchists involved early on with the technology got my rocks off. Making the financial system more horizontal, creating the concept of "trust" in a ledger that cant be edited by a single source, projects with online barter banks, etc- thats the stuff that fascinates me. Actually jumped on to an online barter bank system/helping with project management things during its development, and was a fun experience.

Biggest problem with antifa is theyre all bark and bite, no actual construction of anything productive. Disgusting bug people, really.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Those "real punk" bands suck too. IMO, they're the worst of a very bad lot.

Considering Fat Mike is an asshole, RATM and Dead Kennedies pretty much had Trump Derangement Syndrome and this shit? https://consequenceofsound.net/2021/01/dead-kennedys-mitt-romney-lindsey-graham/ Or with RATM theres this kind of tirade over preferential treatment? https://deadstate.org/tom-morello-s...atment-restaurant-owners-response-goes-viral/

Yeah, 90% of punk music is a grift and a hypocritical one at that and most of them are pretty much the same as what Antifa is. Whiney, elitist faggots.

 

[AnOminous]

NOFX, Bad Religion, Dead Kennedys, GG Allin, etc disagree with you.

Agreed on Bad Religion and Dead Kennedys. GG Allin was a completely untalented vicious asshole but that was kind of his point and he did it very well and was polite enough to die before his act got old. Anyone who actually stood up front at one of his shows and got shit thrown on them pretty much deserved it just for being there, which was also his point.

That said Jello Biafra has really crawled up his own asshole these days.

Yeah, 90% of punk music is a grift and a hypocritical one at that and most of them are pretty much the same as what Antifa is. Whiney, elitist faggots.

So Sturgeon's Law basically. 90% of everything is crap.

 

[White Devil]

Agreed on Bad Religion and Dead Kennedys. GG Allin was a completely untalented vicious asshole but that was kind of his point and he did it very well and was polite enough to die before his act got old. Anyone who actually stood up front at one of his shows and got shit thrown on them pretty much deserved it just for being there, which was also his point.

That said Jello Biafra has really crawled up his own asshole these days.

So Sturgeon's Law basically. 90% of everything is crap.

This is also why people liked GG Allin. You knew what you were getting with him because his reputation spoke for itself. That being said, I don't give a fuck about pretentious antifa faggots, I just wanted to say not all punk is bad. Modern punk certainly is but I can still enjoy Skrewdriver.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

CNT-FAI Catalonia does make me sad because did read files from the NKVD and the way they destroyed that movement and tortured Andreau Nin, but the CNT-FAI were also assholes who burnt nuns alive, so they deserved some karma for that. Was more than just peasant farmers though, both in being vile to their enemies and in terms of light industry.

Indeed. The Catalan anarchists seem to have been romanticised in the West, probably because George Orwell served with them and acted under the belief that they never did anything wrong and were stabbed in the back at every turn.

That said, Antifa would probably be their closest parallel in the US - they get to have their fun and kill some innocent people, but the second they outlive their usefulness the actual leaders put them up against a wall.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

That said, Antifa would probably be their closest parallel in the US - they get to have their fun and kill some innocent people, but the second they outlive their usefulness the actual leaders put them up against a wall.

I really just see them as ultimately hippies 2.0. CNT-FAI had their own problems, but Antifi is def an American bred menace with historical precedent over here.

With the hippies, the "dream" died out at Altamont officially, but if you look at that "summer of love", most of the drugs and free love quickly turned into drug abuse and prostitution. You had left wing terrorists trying to bomb city halls, riots, eco extremists, etc. You had these people romanticizing the hells angels, only for Altamont to happen. You had all sorts of new age cults pop up, which we're still dealing with, and the climax in the Manson murders. You had youth completely gas lit by this movement, and still pretty gas lit (old professors of mine have unironically gone "we didnt know what we were protesting for, but we knew it was important"). Fuck the hippies, and fuck anyone who romanticizes them basically. The one saving grace to some downtown businesses burning down, which I fucking hate and consider despicable, is a good chunk of the boomers whose businesses were trashed probably cheered on hippies as kids, if they didn't participate in their random stupid shit, so it did come full circle in a way.

 

[DeadFish]

. In the fleshspace, Id maybe want to see people pull off something like the amish or mennonites, keeping up society, having decent enough markets and more social consciousness. In the non-flesh space, stuff like blockchain and the cryptoanarchists involved early on with the technology got my rocks off. Making the financial system more horizontal, creating the concept of "trust" in a ledger that cant be edited by a single source, projects with online barter banks, etc- thats the stuff that fascinates me. Actually jumped on to an online barter bank system/helping with project management things during its development, and was a fun experience.

Biggest problem with antifa is theyre all bark and bite, no actual construction of anything productive. Disgusting bug people, really.

You could create more decentralization in cyber space. Bidens elections scared the crap out of non america politicians. Such as india. They saw how much power the american media and silicon valley had that they immediately took steps to ban them.

This presents an opportunity. What you can do is find your local politicians and pitch to them the idea of a localized internet structure. Doesn't matter if city, county or state or foreign place ( like india). Pitch to them the idea of a smaller version of paypal, twitter, email and the like that is ran own owned by the local government. This would increase balkanization and competition to the current media giants. Tell them how it would benefit them and show them how they are vunerable if they don't.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

old professors of mine have unironically gone "we didnt know what we were protesting for, but we knew it was important"

I've heard young people basically say that today, so not much has changed.

 

[DeadFish]

I've heard young people basically say that today, so not much has changed.

You're an idiot if you don't know what you're fighting for. Not you specifically marshall.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

You're an idiot if you don't know what you're fighting for. Not you specifically marshall.

Fuck reddit, but relevant

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I'll admit to being guilty of having these assumptions periodically when I should know better. I've met more than my share of squatting crust punks who grew up in abject misery with parents who barely scraped by, one of who died of an overdose before he could legally drink. Dismissing Antifa as a project of the bourgeoisie fails to account for the popular support it receives among the downtrodden. That said, plenty of Antifa leaders and influencers come from privileged backgrounds, so the assumption isn't unfounded.

Yeah, and a lot of our lovely alt-right leaders and thought leaders (many of whom feature on this site) are rarely the brother of Jimmy Bob the dirt-poor redneck.

 

[Marshal Mannerheim]

View attachment 2027885

Fuck reddit, but relevant

One of the main problems I have with the progressive movement is how it takes what are, in theory, noble causes (opposition to bigotry, environmentalism) and either twists them until they can be used to support socialism or uses them performatively and turns them into a way to get likes on Insta.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

One of the main problems I have with the progressive movement is how it takes what are, in theory, noble causes (opposition to bigotry, environmentalism) and either twists them until they can be used to support socialism or uses them performatively and turns them into a way to get likes on Insta.

Part of why, while I do have sympathies to a lot of these causes, I don't go to marches, don't vote for candidates unless they have something concrete that theyre likely to actually action, and just don't care anymore. I mean, I do care- but not for the bullshitty stuff, which is pretty much all the left champions any longer.

If someone wants me to donate to a cause or champion something, the once almost blind trust or willingness to give a listen is basically gone and non-existent at this point. For me to actually care about an issue, it needs to be well defined, well understood, and there needs to be a clear and viable action plan that won't just completely fuck up society. The vast, vast majority of social justice causes, while they may look at some problem, just are not that. They almost always fail to get to the root of an issue, and the solutions proposed either suffer from occupy syndrome and just have far too much scope creep (ie, in order to address some of the problems with police brutality, somehow we need full communism? What the fuck?), or their solutions are problems unto themselves.

There's stuff that needs to be addressed, but the actual, proper way to address them just isn't that popular and can't be sensationalized. Modern left wing politics does parallel angry evangelicals who cared more about screaming at people than actually acting Christlike and helping out the poor they claimed to care for, all the way down to megachurches being replaced by "Yaaaaas Queen" concerts and brand food, and everything just being about trying to signal how good of a person you are, instead of actually doing something constructive and being a good person.

 

[RichardMongler]

Yeah, and a lot of our lovely alt-right leaders and thought leaders (many of whom feature on this site) are rarely the brother of Jimmy Bob the dirt-poor redneck.

That wasn't in dispute, but is there a reason for your whatabouting? Because this article points out that Christian "Antifash Gordon" Exoo, Molly "socialistdogmom" Conger, Abner "Left Coast Right Watch" Hauge and Talia Lavin all came from comfortable upper middle class backgrounds.

Good little article on these Zionist scum by Jason Kessler at VDARE- 'Doxing The Doxers: Antifa’s War Against Regular Americans Is Run By Spoiled Rich Kids' (archive). Could use some more details, but it puts their racket into context nicely.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

That wasn't in dispute, but is there a reason for your whatabouting? Because this article points out that Christian "Antifash Gordon" Exoo, Molly "socialistdogmom" Conger, Abner "Left Coast Right Watch" Hauge and Talia Lavin all came from comfortable upper middle class backgrounds.

Whatabouting suggests I'm bringing up something unrelated as a defense- I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that most high-profile members of any movement (radical or otherwise) are not necessarily going to be representative of the demographics of the membership.

 

[RichardMongler]

Whatabouting suggests I'm bringing up something unrelated as a defense- I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that most high-profile members of any movement (radical or otherwise) are not necessarily going to be representative of the demographics of the membership.

Fair enough.