The Trial of Derek Chauvin - Judgement(?) Day(?) has arrived!

[TheClappening]

I think the prosecution has at least shown what is at best a sub-optimal use of a restraint procedure at the outer limits of what's allowed, but I'm not in the least convinced it was the actual cause of death, which looks a lot more likely to be a combo of decades of drug abuse, which certainly did no favor for his severe heart disease, combined with sickle cell trait, combined with stressing out his already weakened heart with a drug fueled chimpout.

Don't forget he was coof positive. Somewhere, in China, and bat is culpable of killing George Foreman.

 

[Ari Gold]

No, probably mostly because he's charged with 2nd and 3rd

I mean, people generally overestimate what 1st degree murder actually entails in terms of what 'premeditation' means but it was clearly not here.

tbh they only charged him with 2nd in this case for the depraved heart angle.

I haven't been able to watch this whole thing either. Has the state made a decent case for 2nd degree? I think they have proven 3rd degree and have always thought that's what Chauvin would get convicted for.

 

[Top Skink]

its not about bias, but about fear and intimidation.
if they acquit, their own city burns. they have friends and family in there. and they might even get doxed themselves and targeted for reprisal by blm.

Sure, but all the same, it was covered and they gave their answers. Political bias and fear of public backlash were the two biggest topics of jury selection and everyone got at least a few dozen questions regarding both, and nobody showed any concern at the time toward any of the jurors answers. It's an understandable thing to be worried about because it's a commonly used tool these days, but not only can they absolutely not bring that up in deliberation, but there's also no good evidence to show it's something to be particularly worried about. If you're rooting for chauvin to get off, then you have a lot more to be concerned with prosecution's evidence (even poorly handled) than the jury deciding because they fear their houses will get burned down

Proving that him saying that was well known to the officers to think he was crying wolf.

bruh

this was a major subject in pre-trial evidence, specifically because while he has cried I CANT BREEVE before, rules of evidence around modus operandi are really strict and take more than two cases, and more importantly none of the officers involved didn't know anything about floyd at the time, least of all that he acted the same way getting arrested the year prior. The evidence is iirc being brought in under very heavy specifications to show about his drug use and explain how he might've taken an overdose on accident, NOT to say he cries wolf with not breathing and moreover that the officers knew that and put him on the ground cause they knew he was lying

 

[Sheryl Nome]

I haven't been able to watch this whole thing either. Has the state made a decent case for 2nd degree? I think they have proven 3rd degree and have always thought that's what Chauvin would get convicted for.

No I feel like their 2nd degree shit has been very weak.

 

[Coccxys]

Mentioned this in the riot thread: women do NOT make good cops in any role but handing out tickets

Here about 10 years ago some woman failed the upper body strength potion of the police entrance tests so she sued every fucker around for discrimination. The outcome was a big fat pay out and removing the upper body strength testing for all police because it indirectly discriminated against women. Absolute clown world when there is a very good (and easily explained) reason why you would mandate a level of upper body strength a police officer must have.

 

[Top Skink]

I haven't been able to watch this whole thing either. Has the state made a decent case for 2nd degree? I think they have proven 3rd degree and have always thought that's what Chauvin would get convicted for.

I mean, if you think they've proved 3rd you'll probably think they've got second too. The wording if i have it right for 2nd is for anyone who "causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim" while 3rd is when someone "without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life"
it's an important distinction but honestly if you're convinced by one, you're probably convinced of the other as well. Unless you fall into the very specific camp that thinks chauvin killed floyd by kneeling on his neck, but wasn't trying to hurt him while doing so.
(forgetting of course the drugs, the police use of force statutes, etc.)

 

[mindlessobserver]

No I feel like their 2nd degree shit has been very weak.

Its non existent. They have have not even tried to argue intent. Which is a critical component of 2nd degree murder. I guess the prosecution is hoping everyone on that jury is an emotional idiot.

 

[Prester John]

I haven't been able to watch this whole thing either. Has the state made a decent case for 2nd degree? I think they have proven 3rd degree and have always thought that's what Chauvin would get convicted for.

As Andrew McCarthy states regarding 3rd degree murder (depraved indifference):
"Under the plain language of the statute, and the well-settled concept of 'depraved-indifference' homicide, the accused must commit an act that is depraved because it is indifferent to human life, and thus imperils everyone in the vicinity."

How did Chauvin's actions imperil those in the vicinity? His actions were to Floyd specifically, not to the onlookers in the vicinity. How is murder in the 3rd degree in any way proven?

If he is guilty of murder, it is to Floyd specifically, and I don't understand how that can be established as murder in the 3rd degree.

 

[Krispum Western Chumbler]

Every question...

Nelson:

would you agree that"_________"?​

​

Seth Stoughton:

yes,​

yes,​

yes,​

more than likely, sure​

BUT NOT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.​

​

What a simp mother fucker.​

 

[Not Really Here]

I don't matter, but for me the case died with the fact the EMS crew felt so unsafe they had to roll around the block before they started working.
That is a party of reasonable people called to the scene who decided that the area wasn't safe to provide assistance, how the fuck am I supposed to believe that the cops didn't feel the same lack of safety?

 

[Ari Gold]

As Andrew McCarthy states regarding 3rd degree murder (depraved indifference):
"Under the plain language of the statute, and the well-settled concept of 'depraved-indifference' homicide, the accused must commit an act that is depraved because it is indifferent to human life, and thus imperils everyone in the vicinity."

How did Chauvin's actions imperil those in the vicinity? His actions were to Floyd specifically, not to the onlookers in the vicinity. How is murder in the 3rd degree in any way proven?

If he is guilty of murder, it is to Floyd specifically, and I don't understand how that can be established as murder in the 3rd degree.

Law in MN for 3rd is: (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes

I don't know who Andrew McCarthy is. But there is no language about the action: "thus imperils everyone in the vicinity."

I think the jury will find that he acted without regard for Mr. Floyd's life. There were signs that he was unconscious for several minutes possibly without a pulse. And no aid was rendered while restraint continued.

Edit: I am not saying I would have done any better if placed in Chauvin's shoes. As the above poster notes the mob is quite the factor. I may have started preforming leg drops on the dude just to spite the crowd.

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

Look, I'm not joking here. Between this trial and the new bullshit that happened recently, if you are living in Minneapolis, fucking leave. This isn't going to get better. We are looking at a decade or more of constant chaos, and your city is ground zero. Businesses are fleeing urban bullshit because either they don't want shit burnt, or realized they can move their workforces to less shit areas or have you work from home. Housing prices all around are about to drop again. I'm even willing to accept you city bugmen moving to my nice rural areas because I hate the thought of people still being there against their will. To a point. A very small one. But still.

I know people are loyal to their home. I know people don't want to just accept defeat. I don't live there, and thank god I don't. But the people in charge are not going to help you. The cops won't either. The mob will turn on you even if you support them. I'm saying this because I can't stand the thought of seeing this fucking insanity and still believing things are going to be fine. And if you can't leave, I'm sorry. As gay as the thoughts and prayers shit is, I genuinely feel for you. I can't watch this shit anymore, it's legitimately sick. The question isn't what's going up in flames, but how much worse it'll be. Fuck.

 

[TFT-A9]

Look, I'm not joking here. Between this trial and the new bullshit that happened recently, if you are living in Minneapolis, fucking leave. This isn't going to get better. We are looking at a decade or more of constant chaos, and your city is ground zero. Businesses are fleeing urban bullshit because either they don't want shit burnt, or realized they can move their workforces to less shit areas or have you work from home. Housing prices all around are about to drop again. I'm even willing to accept you city bugmen moving to my nice rural areas because I hate the thought of people still being there against their will. To a point. A very small one. But still.

I know people are loyal to their home. I know people don't want to just accept defeat. I don't live there, and thank god I don't. But the people in charge are not going to help you. The cops won't either. The mob will turn on you even if you support them. I'm saying this because I can't stand the thought of seeing this fucking insanity and still believing things are going to be fine. And if you can't leave, I'm sorry. As gay as the thoughts and prayers shit is, I genuinely feel for you. I can't watch this shit anymore, it's legitimately sick. The question isn't what's going up in flames, but how much worse it'll be. Fuck.

Four words.

"This far, no further."

 

[Geralt of Rivia]

Look, I'm not joking here. Between this trial and the new bullshit that happened recently, if you are living in Minneapolis, fucking leave. This isn't going to get better. We are looking at a decade or more of constant chaos, and your city is ground zero. Businesses are fleeing urban bullshit because either they don't want shit burnt, or realized they can move their workforces to less shit areas or have you work from home. Housing prices all around are about to drop again. I'm even willing to accept you city bugmen moving to my nice rural areas because I hate the thought of people still being there against their will. To a point. A very small one. But still.

I know people are loyal to their home. I know people don't want to just accept defeat. I don't live there, and thank god I don't. But the people in charge are not going to help you. The cops won't either. The mob will turn on you even if you support them. I'm saying this because I can't stand the thought of seeing this fucking insanity and still believing things are going to be fine. And if you can't leave, I'm sorry. As gay as the thoughts and prayers shit is, I genuinely feel for you. I can't watch this shit anymore, it's legitimately sick. The question isn't what's going up in flames, but how much worse it'll be. Fuck.

TL;DR: Nigger, what the fuck are you still doing in that 3rd world shithole

 

[Merry]

Look, I'm not joking here. Between this trial and the new bullshit that happened recently, if you are living in Minneapolis, fucking leave. This isn't going to get better. We are looking at a decade or more of constant chaos, and your city is ground zero. Businesses are fleeing urban bullshit because either they don't want shit burnt, or realized they can move their workforces to less shit areas or have you work from home. Housing prices all around are about to drop again. I'm even willing to accept you city bugmen moving to my nice rural areas because I hate the thought of people still being there against their will. To a point. A very small one. But still.

I know people are loyal to their home. I know people don't want to just accept defeat. I don't live there, and thank god I don't. But the people in charge are not going to help you. The cops won't either. The mob will turn on you even if you support them. I'm saying this because I can't stand the thought of seeing this fucking insanity and still believing things are going to be fine. And if you can't leave, I'm sorry. As gay as the thoughts and prayers shit is, I genuinely feel for you. I can't watch this shit anymore, it's legitimately sick. The question isn't what's going up in flames, but how much worse it'll be. Fuck.

The good news is that even the bugmen have to adapt to not being fully bugmen in those environments, Internet or no.

 

[Prester John]

Law in MN for 3rd is: (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes

I don't know who Andrew McCarthy is. But there is no language about the action: "thus imperils everyone in the vicinity."

I think the jury will find that he acted without regard for Mr. Floyd's life. There were signs that he was unconscious for several minutes possibly without a pulse. And no aid was rendered while restraint continued.

Edit: I am not saying I would have done any better if placed in Chauvin's shoes. As the above poster notes the mob is quite the factor. I may have started preforming leg drops on the dude just to spite the crowd.

Andrew McCarthy is a columnist for National Review whom I've found to be a straight-shooter; he doesn't seem to have an agenda. He served as Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York. The article I quoted from is here:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/03/the-george-floyd-murder-trial-a-charging-nightmare/

A further quote from the article, which cites the exact same statute that you did:

"To understand the controversy, we need to quote the language of the relevant statute, and note my italics. Under Section 609.195(a) of the state penal code, a defendant is guilty of third-degree murder if:

without intent to effect the death of any person, [the defendant] causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.

Back in October, Judge Cahill granted the motion to dismiss this charge. Under the plain language of the statute, and the well-settled concept of 'depraved-indifference' homicide, the accused must commit an act that is depraved because it is indifferent to human life, and thus imperils everyone in the vicinity. That is not what Chauvin did. His conduct was specifically targeted at Floyd. He was not indifferent to human life in general. If you believe, as I do, that he acted in a reckless manner that was heedless of Floyd’s well-being and created an unreasonable risk of death or serious injury, that is precisely what the above-described manslaughter charge alleges."

And, I think the key quote to understanding depraved-indifference is:

"Depraved-indifference murder is not supposed to be a sleight-of-hand that elevates manslaughter to murder, or that effectively turns an unintentional killing into an intentional murder by substituting depraved indifference for malice aforethought. It is meant to address the sociopath who, say, fires a gun into a crowd, not seeking to kill or wound anyone in particular, but who poses a lethal risk to everyone."

Concepts have understood meanings in precedent and common law, and I'm trusting that McCarthy has studied and understands the meaning and relevant case law of these concepts. Maybe he's wrong. But if he is, then I truly wonder what the difference is between manslaughter and murder in the 3rd degree in Minnesota.

 

[BrokenLightbulbs]

yeah instead of manslaughter it's man's laughter

Take this you motherfucker

 

[Ruin]

God I hope all the bugmen from MN stay the fuck out of Wisconsin. They're going to be fucking up all the border states and bringing their retardation with them.

 

[Dr. Geronimo]

God I hope all the bugmen from MN stay the fuck out of Wisconsin. They're going to be fucking up all the border states and bringing their retardation with them.

That's how I'm feeling as an ex-tex right now since the califestation is going to there and bringing them all here. Look at Arkansas and Missouri as moving options. Would love to move to the ozarks but can't find good prospects there.

 

[Niggernerd]

Yeah, well, the "women can be police officers too!" genie is never going back in its bottle, so might as well get used to it or think of a way to mitigate it.

Put them to patrol elementary schools, give em a orange vest, take away their badge and then tell em to help the kids across the street because women can't be cops lol