Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[SaidNoOneEver]

Nah, I don't think this analogy will work. Baseball has (largely§) objective standards. You get hits or you don't, you have an arm that can throw a screamer from center field to the catcher or you can't, you have an eye for stealing bases or you don't. And the people who scout talent look for this kind of thing and don't give a shit what you look like, what your politics are and so on. In fact, they'll go to Korea or Taiwan or the Dominican Republic or Cuba or wherever the fuck baseball is still played (it is very much a sport in decline, kinda like, well, Western comics) and look FOR the right player.

Compare that to what we see in comics, both inside and outside of #ComicsGate. If Anna that Star Wars Girl was a 37 year old man with Coke bottle glasses, a receding hair line, a big pot belly and questionable personal hygiene drawing "art" at the same level of talent she produces it at, you think my hypothetical would have gotten anywhere at all? Never mind collected close to the simpbux she collected? My hypothetical he could spam videos like The Quatering and still get nowhere. And the Big Two are complete jokes this way, nobody disputes that, all wrapped up in a Heather Antos punch line.

Maybe something like, dunno, the current state of pop music would work? Where it is nice if you have talent, but that not sufficient for success and may not even be all that necessary.

§ - I do concede that (say) Mike Trout might get the benefit of a plate umpire for a strike zone somebody up for the proverbial "cup of coffee" in the Majors will not, but they're not supposed to, and I think it is less common than complained about.

The baseball analogy was just the first that came to mind. The idea still applies to the subjective fields too though. For the most part those who become household names are also the most media-savvy talent-wise, regardless of actual merit. Just off the top of my head Neil Degrasse Tyson and Bill Nye come to mind. Neither come close to Stephen Hawking or Einstein-level brilliance but their personality put them over the top. Dr. Fauci as well, an unremarkable physician who worked his way through the ranks of gov't to become the highest-paid federal employee by way of being the most shameless political hack possibly of all time. Perhaps Woke Culture was originally a response to this seemingly "unearned greatness", where the folks who were being left behind are lashing out at those who surpass them simply because they talk a better game on camera (but has since been taken over by the same camera-friendly opportunists).

The bottom line is that consumers only have so much time in the day so the number of available slots to fill is limited even for those who do have the promotional chops. This has always been a flaw with the CG social media following model.

 

[9th legion centurion 002]

Editor of Peregrine & aspiring Ethot Piper seems to be mixing it up with Warcampaign on Twitter.

This is about them flailing around accusing everyone in CG of being pedo, apparently Piper is their newest target.

I find it most interesting that the throng of thirsty simps that normally surround her on her show are nowhere to be found defending her.

That is a testament to the quality of her simps if they are too afraid of trash like Warcampaign..

 

[Brother Maynard]

Right. He actually went UP from book 1 to book 2. I'm so confused what the complaint is here.
View attachment 2102869

Everyone needs to stand on their own two feet. I've seen way too many people that their marketing plan is "I have a comic, now I just need to get on @FROG 's channel."

The marketing plan should be make a comic that sells. Make a comic there's an audience for, find that audience (preferably before you launch your book), then sell it to them. Back in 2018 and 2019 when I was on Ethan's channel every night, I got a dozen messages each stream like "CAN YOU INTRODUCE ME TO ETHAN? DO YOU THINK YOU CAN GET ME ON ETHAN'S CHANNEL? PLEASE ASK FROG IF HE CAN HAVE ME ON."

None of your comics would have sold if you weren't platformed on Frogs channel regularly. Your artists would be better off selling fruit on the side of the highway than trying to make money working with you.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

And I bet only half of those messages were from Preston Poulter.

Little more than half.

Your artists would be better off selling fruit on the side of the highway than trying to make money working with you.

There's a reason they work with me. Shawn Langley made GREAT money on Trixie. Vic got a big chunk of the Asyl money (I didnt make a cent on that book). Jason is gonna get paid well.

I'm the best person anyone can work with. I do the work and they make money.

 

[Brother Maynard]

Little more than half.

There's a reason they work with me. Shawn Langley made GREAT money on Trixie. Vic got a big chunk of the Asyl money (I didnt make a cent on that book). Jason is gonna get paid well.

I'm the best person anyone can work with. I do the work and they make money.

Lol. You do the work? You retard, do you have clue how long it takes to draw a comic book? You squrt out scripts in a day, these guys labor for months, and you claim you do all the work?

 

[jspit2.0]

Seems the prophecy of the pros taking over CG that Ernst and Lim and OG CG peeps feared were indeed true. There was a while there after the fall of Rome and the pro exodus where upstarts had a chance to make a name for themselves on the big show, but when those prose were replaced by the next generation CG pro hangers on, the little guys in CG were all forgotten again.

Now do your job, CG, and support the out of work professionals that Ethan tells you to. Good sheep.

I recently rewatched some of that Earnst stream with WC. So open question. Earnst keeps referring to "Pros." When do you become a "Pro?"


The guy puts out comic books, professionally. He's a professional writer. So, in essence, isn't Doug's slap fights between him and others fights between pros?

DA Talks put out a stream with @VIkkiVerse. @TESTEFY-HD was a topic as he broke a rule or something.

The labyrinth of etiquette for tubers is breathtaking

Editor of Peregrine & aspiring Ethot Piper seems to be mixing it up with Warcampaign on Twitter.

This is about them flailing around accusing everyone in CG of being pedo, apparently Piper is their newest target.

I find it most interesting that the throng of thirsty simps that normally surround her on her show are nowhere to be found defending her.

That is a testament to the quality of her simps if they are too afraid of trash like Warcampaign..View attachment 2103267

To be fair, e-thots abound in CG so she's in her natural habitat.

I'm all for bagging on Jon Malin for making a dick out of himself, for instance the Rags snowmobile cover...

So say we all.

What happens when creators do the wrong thing? Will the CG miracle company bail out creators like Cridious who misuse backer money? Will the CG miracle company pay out Martina Markota to fight her lawsuit? Will the CG miracle company post Slick Jimmy's bail for his pedo charges and hire a PR firm to rehabilitate his image and that of his book?

It'll just bail out Frog's colorist...

The problem here is some of these people are a protected class. Some get a hand up and some don't. This isn't that different from the mainstream. Making matters worse is you aren't dealing with healthy, well adjusted people. The Venn diagram between CG 'creators' and mental illness and instability is probably a big 0.

Speaking of the protected class.

Cecil was unfuckingbearable last night. I couldn't stand it anymore and had to turn it off, missing everything you guys are talking about. The one stream in months that isn't a 90-minute infomercial and actually talks shop gets ruined by constant try-hard unfunny interruptions.

Cecil has been unbearable for a long, long time. He's gotten shielded and platformed. A heavy lift just like Jon Malin who didn't really build a platform but had one gifted to him.

Let me get Mad At The Internet for a second.

The comics scene is so incredibly insane and mentally ill, that I can't process or retain bullshit like these three tweets from Derrick. I usually just make a mental note that this person is a fucking asshole who deserves no assistance from me, and forget why.

Nobody who wasn't deliberately trying to fuck with me would buy into ANY War Campaign narrative, especially this idiotic one.

And this is why I've closed ranks. Why take a chance and accidentally help a fuckhead like this?

I mean, I'm not going to argue with you on CG autism.

But how many CG projects has this dimwit helped fund? A mentally ill person figured out he was in a pyramid scheme.

 

[BlueKnight]

Lol. You do the work? You retard, do you have clue how long it takes to draw a comic book? You squrt out scripts in a day, these guys labor for months, and you claim you do all the work?

As an artist who also writes, I can assure you, writing is not easy.

 

[Newman's Own]

That middle ground for projects that are by newbies or amateurs, but aren't shit, exists. But you think this belongs on it?

No worse than Crideous, Mandy, Wenger, Micha, and many others you promoted for loyalty obsequiousness instead of talent.

Hell, have you tried to watch a Malin solo stream? He's awful. No wonder he can't siphon off more than 8k subs from you and Anna combined after 3 years of trying.

And still, the dick head says to all these little tryhards "just do what I did!". What an idiot.

That's just the truth Frog. Malin's get an oar schtick is old and tired. Hugging your nuts and doing the first JawBreakers book is the only reason he's ever broken 100K. He was lower tier at Marvel but he's top tier in CG. Donal Delay is a better artist and he's nothing special.

That isn't "meritocracy", that's typical ComicsGay.

Right now, you're getting on Frog's show if you're an established pro that can work and meet deadlines

Name one who's met a deadline.

That shit looks garbo.

Much like Nasser and JDA's books.

Also, this isn't a complaint about how you run your show. I have no problem with you gatekeeping your platform, you should. But Michael brought up a valid problem, seeking a solution, and you and Malin took it as some sort of challenge to your authority.

That's the rub. Malin is pulling up the ladder behind him and acting like he scaled the wall without ropes.

Clint, Mandy Summers, Michael Bancroft, all creators who aren't in my circle and are able to sell their comics while putting on YouTube shows.

You made Clint and Mandy.

The difference between her and Michael Derrick is she produces daily and weekly content.

No, it's not.

• Mandy Summers arguably put out one of the worst looking books in Comicsgate, but then improved both financially and with backers with her two follow up books Superdead and Pirate Queen. The difference between her and Michael Derrick is she produces daily and weekly content.
• Liam Gray was a fucking nobody and managed to get over 60K on his first book before he allowed himself to implode in an autism storm.
• Antonio Brice made close to 80K on the first Brand and probably could have replicated it's success if he didn't drop the ball on fulfillment and abandon CG for his stupid burger comic.
• Michael Bancroft and Charlies London have made over 50K on their first books, they both do daily or weekly content whether on their channels or others.
• Nasser Rabadi went from being unable to get his books funded, to getting two books funded in the past six months.
• JDA's Deus Vult book is on track to be one of the more successful books he's done since The Ember War in 2018.

Everyone of these people except Bancroft built their platforms with Frog not without him. Derrick is whining because he won't be allowed the same opportunity.

Malin's a hypocrite for pretending he did it himself.

Long story short, if the talent is there they'll rise without being handed shit.

In baseball you have to have baseball skills.

In ComicsGate you don't need comics skills. You need YouTube skills, simping skills, kiss ass skills or Ed McMahon skills.

Cecil has zero comics skills. He has kiss ass, Ed McMahon and simping skills.

People who bought his book are morons.

YBZ was literally just some guy and did the same thing before Frog did it.

That was then. If he started the same channel today instead of then he'd be another YT nobody.

Everyone needs to stand on their own two feet.

Shut up Nasser. The only reason your current project is funded is because Ethan is letting you give him a rusty trombone again.

You're one YelloFlash rant from obscurity and you know it.

I've seen way too many people that their marketing plan is "I have a comic, now I just need to get on @FROG 's channel."

This was your exact model dip shit. You're whole comics career lives or dies on the whims of a fat frog.

As an artist who also writes, I can assure you, writing is not easy.

Nasser brags about how fast he churns out his low quality pap.

Maynard's not wrong.

I've said it before that you platform retards who turn around and fuck you in the ass.

Don't feel sorry for him. It's not like he isn't doing the same to them.



Anyway, it's pretty greasy of Malin to run down others for complaining they aren't getting a hand up when he owes everything to Sciver and Meyer.

Does anyone honestly care what happens next in Graveyard Shit?

 

[Brother Maynard]

As an artist who also writes, I can assure you, writing is not easy

Not for good writers, but this is Nasser we're talking about.

And even for good writers, it's still a fraction of the time it takes to put ink on paper.

 

[Mister Dongs]

I'm hearing a lot of exasperation that people who decide to go into business for themselves... are responsible for the marketing aspect of their business. Guys like Tim Lim, JDA and Doug Ernst are thriving despite the flood of Comicsgate titles and their creators all struggling to get on any platform they can to plug their comics to an increasingly strained customer base, the majority of which are still waiting on the "big name" comics they backed well over a year ago. This is because they had no choice to develop their own followings, usually (but not necessarily) with Youtube.

Within CG, X53 Studios (Arachna), Mandy Summers, Shelby Robertson, R.J Shaw (Fourth Age) have all had very successful debut or growth from project to project despite zero promotion from Frog. All of them have had more success out of the gate than Adam Post, who has been squatting in every one of Frog's streams for what feels like the past 3000 years. How is this possible if Frog's support is the be-all end-all of success in Comicsgate?


APRIL 1 - APRIL 20

Ethan Van Sciver: $81420
Clownfish: $14415
X53 Studios: $7700
Mandy Summers: $7006
Jeff Hicks: $4800
Richard C Meyer: $4800
Michael Bancroft: $2428.98
Adam Post: $1260
Donkey Madness: $1040
DarkGift Comics: $456
Michael Derrick: $80
Preston Asevedo: $25
Lonnie Webb: $0

 

[Miniluv]

Speaking of the protected class.


Cecil has been unbearable for a long, long time. He's gotten shielded and platformed. A heavy lift just like Jon Malin who didn't really build a platform but had one gifted to him.

Name one who's met a deadline.


Everyone of these people except Bancroft built their platforms with Frog not without him. Derrick is whining because he won't be allowed the same opportunity.

Malin's a hypocrite for pretending he did it himself.


In baseball you have to have baseball skills.

In ComicsGate you don't need comics skills. You need YouTube skills, simping skills, kiss ass skills or Ed McMahon skills.

Cecil has zero comics skills. He has kiss ass, Ed McMahon and simping skills.

People who bought his book are morons.

You got me there. Deadlines aren't exactly a priority. I've backed a handful of books over the last couple of years and the only one that wasn't late and wasn't damaged was Bigfoot Bill. Weird how that works.

Cecil has dick joked and ass kissed his way to the "top" but he's also the perfect CG pro in that he's somehow managed to have a six figure campaign that hasn't seen the light of day. He's a fine example to new creators that you don't have to have talent or drive if you possess the willingness to act like a fucking drunk moron for the amusement of others if you want to make it in CG.

Malin's insistence that you need a YT channel with an audience of 3k if you want to go anywhere is baffling. People like Charlie's London and Adam Post have channels that hover around 1k subs and make content that gets maybe 200 views (many of Adam's videos get less than 100). They don't have the most engaging personalities and their projects don't seem really compelling (aside from some pretty covers, that mermaid book looks very amateurish and I'm not even going to talk about the abortion that was College of the Dead) but they're getting their books funded. It isn't based on their personalities or the content of their YouTube channels. It's because they have access to Frog's platform. Malin is a fool if he thinks that doesn't matter in CG. He's been the beneficiary of it since the jump. He didn't get 8k subs because he's fun to watch or because he's some kind of top flight artist like Ethan. His position is what it is because of Frog and YBZ and the "git gud" attitude towards people that aren't able to access that platform is bullshit.

 

[Brother Maynard]

I'm hearing a lot of exasperation that people who decide to go into business for themselves... are responsible for the marketing aspect of their business. Guys like Tim Lim, JDA and Doug Ernst are thriving despite the flood of Comicsgate titles and their creators all struggling to get on any platform they can to plug their comics to an increasingly strained customer base, the majority of which are still waiting on the "big name" comics they backed well over a year ago. This is because they had no choice to develop their own followings, usually (but not necessarily) with Youtube.

Within CG, X53 Studios (Arachna), Mandy Summers, Shelby Robertson, R.J Shaw (Fourth Age) have all had very successful debut or growth from project to project despite zero promotion from Frog. All of them have had more success out of the gate than Adam Post, who has been squatting in every one of Frog's streams for what feels like the past 3000 years. How is this possible if Frog's support is the be-all end-all of success in Comicsgate?


APRIL 1 - APRIL 20

Ethan Van Sciver: $81420
Clownfish: $14415
X53 Studios: $7700
Mandy Summers: $7006
Jeff Hicks: $4800
Richard C Meyer: $4800
Michael Bancroft: $2428.98
Adam Post: $1260
Donkey Madness: $1040
DarkGift Comics: $456
Michael Derrick: $80
Preston Asevedo: $25
Lonnie Webb: $0

Clownfish is not CG, he's been pretty emphatic about it.

 

[Unverified]

Adam Post, who has been squatting in every one of Frog's streams for what feels like the past 3000 years.

It feels like an extra 10 years every time Adam starts talking, so that definitely checks out. Honestly, I'm pretty sure Ethan doesn't even care for him too much (though I know he won't confirm this and may deny it). He treats him similarly to how he used to treat Micah Curtis and seems disappointed whenever Adam pops into the green room. But Adam is overall a nice guy and not a total faggot like Micah, so it wouldn't be right to remove him. His projects are ABSOLUTE TRASH though. Margins aside. I've said it before, but how the fuck does someone who has "been in comics" for decades not know how a comic page should be laid out? I even remember him clapping back at people who criticized College of the Dead 2 for the margin issues by just pointing out that he has been a publisher for a long time and knows what he's doing. But then he needs Ethan and based Billy Tucci to give him a fucking tutorial on page layouts for Mermaids.

 

[Miniluv]

How is this possible if Frog's support is the be-all end-all of success in Comicsgate?

IMO, Frog's support isn't the "be-all end-all" of CG success, keeping in mind that "success" is a little subjective in the crowdfunding arena. It is, however, something that can get an otherwise mediocre/bad project a level of funding that it couldn't reach without his platform. I think this goes without saying. He's pushed quite a few things that just wouldn't have gone anywhere without him.

Nobody is going to fund a book about Chaplin to the tune of $50k if not for Frog. Cecil would be absolutely nothing without that platform. His existence in the crowdfunding world is a testament to Frog's ability to make something out of nothing. Adam Post's mermaid book is sitting at less than $13k and I'd be very surprised if it generated half that amount without his constant presence on Frog's streams. But the quality of these creators and projects aren't why they're getting pushed.

I'm quite sure there are some books out there of better quality that could probably use the boost enjoyed by the somewhat lame projects Frog chooses to promote, but nobody "deserves" a spot on his platform. He's right to gatekeep his promotion to the creators he wants to help.

So, it's not the absolute keystone to success in CG but you can't say it doesn't make a huge difference in the fate of a project or in the building of one's own platform.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Clownfish is not CG, he's been pretty emphatic about it.

And yet he's able to sell comics. Weird.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

Lol. You do the work? You retard, do you have clue how long it takes to draw a comic book? You squrt out scripts in a day, these guys labor for months, and you claim you do all the work?

I do all the promotion and fulfillment. No artist wants to do that, they want someone else to do it. My artists get paid for the book, they just need to draw, and I take care of everything else. I spent DOZENS of hours streaming for Asyl and SCP, while the 2 artists only had to draw. They did stream sometimes, but they weren't the main means of promotion--I am.

As far as scripts, doesn't matter if it takes 1 day or 1 month, my scripts are good. And you also don't take into account the second and third drafts--you act like I write the first draft quick and that's it. But stories change, things are fixed, things are condensed, things are expanded upon. A quick first draft is just a quick first draft--there's actual thought that goes into these, especially in the editing.

Nobody is going to fund a book about Chaplin to the tune of $50k if not for Frog.

So many people around indie comics really think Chaplin is some obscure person nobody cares about and wouldn't buy a book about. People still love Charlie Chaplin--his movies, 100+ years later, are still enjoyed. He's probably the most famous actor/comedian from the silent era, and was one of the few who made a great transition to talkies. We're talking Charlie Chaplin, not some obscure 1920s actor nobody remembers.

 

[Miniluv]

So many people around indie comics really think Chaplin is some obscure person nobody cares about and wouldn't buy a book about. People still love Charlie Chaplin--his movies, 100+ years later, are still enjoyed. He's probably the most famous actor/comedian from the silent era, and was one of the few who made a great transition to talkies. We're talking Charlie Chaplin, not some obscure 1920s actor nobody remembers.

Never claimed Chaplin was obscure, just that this project would probably be very obscure if not for Frog pushing it.

Even with all his promotion, we're looking at 632 backers paying close to $30 for a 64 page book. If Chaplin would make an interesting comic that his legion of fans would buy, I fail to understand why more people aren't getting it and why it's only being promoted in the CG community. Aside from a Bounding Into Comics article and two reddit posts in r/indiecomicbooks 5 months apart with exactly one reply between the two of them and a combined 11 upvotes, I can't find anything out there telling the wider audience that it exists.

It's got the approval of his estate. I'm not sure why it wasn't being promoted with articles on Criterion or TCM or any number of classic movie forums or sites. Send a fucking press release for fuck's sake.

The content isn't the problem. The problem is marketing it exclusively to an audience that usually spends that kind of cash on stories about angry bodybuilders and big titted supermodels chopping up monsters with their laser eyes.

 

[jspit2.0]

And yet he's able to sell comics. Weird.

That's the crux isn't. Every pyramid scheme has to have some upward mobility. They all have to keep wanting to make it to the top.

The real question is are you better off at your place in the pyramid than outside of it?

IMO, Frog's support isn't the "be-all end-all" of CG success, keeping in mind that "success" is a little subjective in the crowdfunding arena.

For the longest time, he sold it as if it was.

Plus, I think at least within the boundaries of CG its pretty determinative. Name one CG creator that's at odds with him doing well.

Doug Tennaple, Tim Lim, and others have all branched out of SciverCG and found their own pay piggies. While that won't make some gators happy, the fact is that their club has definite bounds.

I'm not sure someone can fight Frog and go six figures with just the CG crowd.

So, it's not the absolute keystone to success in CG but you can't say it doesn't make a huge difference in the fate of a project or in the building of one's own platform.

I disagree. I can't think of one six figure campaign in CG Ethan didn't promote and was from someone he didn't promote in the past.

 

[Miniluv]

I disagree. I can't think of one six figure campaign in CG Ethan didn't promote and was from someone he didn't promote in the past.

If your definition of a successful CG campaign is limited to campaigns that made six figures, then you're absolutely correct. That's why I said it was subjective.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

It's got the approval of his estate. I'm not sure why it wasn't being promoted with articles on Criterion or TCM or any number of classic movie forums or sites. Send a fucking press release for fuck's sake.

I believe Charlie's London said they have distribution plans for the book for after the campaign, after backers get their books. So it'll be in more places. Most of TCM and Criterion's customers are boomers who don't really crowdfund, so I think for a book like Charlie's London, promoting with TCM or Criterion would be better when/if the book is available on places like Amazon, or the estate's official website or something.