Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Thanks for linking that website, now I know where to point next time I see someone claim random statistics about the coronavirus are "fear porn." Imagine unironically bragging about how a nurse had a stillborn:

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...without bothering to check and see what actually killed the baby. It died due to marginal umbilical cord insertion, a physiological defect that happens rarely in pregnancies and can only sometimes be salvaged, not magical 'rona prion AIDS. The shot would have been months after the condition developed, undetected.
The nurse and her husband are still being harassed since their names & faces are in most of the images, posed as if it's some kind of wonderful advert for antivax cultism. They are unsurprisingly butthurt about that fact.

Peace with God indeed.
That's a garbage site no doubt, but the article I posted had a handy summary of the statistics I wanted. Way to ignore all of that and focus on other shit instead. How much data did you have to discard in your hunt for something to latch onto?

Oh great one, prove you have the ability to self reflect and point out which logical fallacy I just described.
 
That's a garbage site no doubt, but the article I posted had a handy summary of the statistics I wanted. Way to ignore all of that and focus on other shit instead. How much data did you have to discard in your hunt for something to latch onto?

Oh great one, prove you have the ability to self reflect and point out which logical fallacy I just described.
Why would I care what statistics you want or don't want, let alone what garbage bin you source them from? The "handy summary" you wanted comes from a shitty grifter tabloid site that loves dead babies and unironically thinks pulling every death off VAERS means they were deaths "caused by the vaccine," and that's OK. You've already proven you aren't interested in learning about any of this or arguing in good faith, so I was just thanking you for the resource, since it's embarrassing to anyone else trying to hawk antivax shit.
 
Why would I care what statistics you want or don't want, let alone what garbage bin you source them from? The "handy summary" you wanted comes from a shitty grifter tabloid site that loves dead babies and unironically thinks pulling every death off VAERS means they were deaths "caused by the disease," and that's OK. You've already proven you aren't interested in learning about any of this or arguing in good faith, so I was just thanking you for the resource, since it's embarrassing to anyone else trying to hawk antivax shit.
They linked to the CDC... yep you can't look at the numbers because there's nothing to argue about there. So instead you went to, what a link to a different article that was retarded and instead attacked that.

I declare straw man! Or just plain laziness. @Hollywood Hulk Hogan come straighten your boy out!

Nothing worse than a lazy troll. I thought product placement was bad, wow.
 
They linked to the CDC... yep you can't look at the numbers because there's nothing to argue about there. So instead you went to, what a link to a different article that was retarded and instead attacked that.

I declare straw man! Or just plain laziness. @Hollywood Hulk Hogan come straighten your boy out!

Nothing worse than a lazy troll. I thought product placement was bad, wow.
The only links to the CDC are on that page are:
  1. the COVID vaccine tracker which merely provides the total number of people vaccinated,
  2. the CDC reiterating that as of today zero causal link has been established between deaths and vaccines barring potentially JnJ/AZ
Please please please try to explain to me what you think VAERS is. It'll be hilarious. Otherwise, you are too stupid to know how stupid you are, which is why I'm not arguing with you! Seriously, thanks for this website. That was it. I posted the nurse story to highlight how embarrassing and malicious it is, not to besmirch your "data" or their uncritical sourcing of that study you cited that I called out as bullshit, or whatever else you think you got from it.

Edit: FYI, learning how to use medalert or VAERS directly yourself will save you from having to use antivax propaganda to get the numbers you like to read (the fact you need one should be a warning sign that the numbers are either misinterpreted or not notable). Unless you secretly like that "garbage website" and the drivel it hawks, of course, but it's a good idea to start learning either way.
 
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The only links to the CDC are on that page are:
  1. the COVID vaccine tracker which merely provides the total number of people vaccinated,
  2. the CDC reiterating that as of today zero causal link has been established between deaths and vaccines barring potentially JnJ/AZ
Please please please try to explain to me what you think VAERS is. It'll be hilarious. Otherwise, you are too stupid to know how stupid you are, which is why I'm not arguing with you! Seriously, thanks for this website. That was it. I posted the nurse story to highlight how embarrassing and malicious it is, not to besmirch your "data" or their uncritical sourcing of that study you cited that I called out as bullshit, or whatever else you think you got from it.
These are the numbers from the past 15 years that they were comparing to the more recent data. You have refused to comment on the main point of the article, and instead focused on something unrelated but on the same site.

Here are the 2, yes only 2, numbers I was referencing: past 15 years deaths reported after a vaccine were 3,445. Deaths reported after a covid19 related vaccine so far: 3,186.

No need to respond, I am aware of your troll tactics already. I can guess:

<steadfastly refuses to comment on the increase in deaths> Let's pick apart something not perfect with VAERS data to distract: yep a report to VAERS does not mean the vaccine caused it, therefore we can disregard everything! (please don't consider the rise in deaths being reported!!!!) Proceed to regurgitate other talking points about why the comparison is wrong.

What you can't seem to comprehend is relentless "fact checking" during the Trump years has caused most of us not to trust these fact checkers at all. Comparing previous VAERS data to current VAERS data is fine for noticing trends, which is what the article did.

"To get a perspective on the magnitude of deaths following COVID shots that are being reported to the CDC"

Notice they said "following COVID shots" and not caused by COVID shots. Comparing VAERS data does not allow you to conclude that a vaccine is causing deaths, but noticing a spike in the trend should be alarming. We aren't even allowed to be alarmed now, great.

The article devolves into conspiracy theory territory later on, but that initial VAERS table was a nice summary and the only reason I linked it. Even I, pro-vaccine except for EUA covid ones, think that site is garbage. However I am lazy and didn't want to copy the table of data. But feel free to disregard that data because that site hurt your feelings.
 
What was the age-group? Despite how dramatic it seems, loss of smell is being correlated with more mild disease progression, so a younger (20-40) person who loses smell temporarily would be unlikely to even be hospitalized, and may not shed very much particulate.
Age 25 prego female 7 months along
Age 49 overweight male diabete
Age 50 female healthy
And none of them were on their death bed.
The virus is a nothing burger with extra fear sauce
 
I'm just speculating, but could the death data be somewhat to do with old people getting vaccinated? Previously, old people did not receive very many vaccines at all, but they are the most prioritized for this vaccine, especially people living in nursing homes who are already having problems by definition. Being over 80 is a pretty good predictor of death. That, in combination with increased vigilance, could explain some of the change.
 
I'm just speculating, but could the death data be somewhat to do with old people getting vaccinated? Previously, old people did not receive very many vaccines at all, but they are the most prioritized for this vaccine, especially people living in nursing homes who are already having problems by definition. Being over 80 is a pretty good predictor of death. That, in combination with increased vigilance, could explain some of the change.
At least part of the spike in deaths could be due to an increase in the number of vaccines given and have nothing to do with safety concerns. I haven't seen any of the data adjusted to normalize for that so who knows. But my guess is a small part of the increase in deaths is due to the new vaccines being less safe. Hopefully better research will uncover the truth soon.
 
Current death statistics for the vaccines. We'll find out in a few years if there are any long-term effects. If more people understood the unknowns from emergency use authorized vaccines I doubt they would be so popular. Luckily they are kept in the dark, most believe the vaccines will end the mask mandates and allow them to travel. oy vey!


edit: lol fuck redditards
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Operation Warp Speed's only additive contribution to the vaccination effort was agreeing to purchase, vials, if the vaccines worked, and to cover some of the loss if not. It wasn't even a huge contribution relative to any other part of. Warp Speed had no unique guidance, coordination efforts, or other "facilitation" or "laxing of rules." The EUA is wholly unrelated to Warp Speed and has been in place for 8+ years now. Aside from the modest funding, all it really did was establish a prerogative for the FDA to fuck off, honest to God, and it worked.
No one would claim that NASA is suspect because the government had something it wanted done, and contracted free market companies to do it fast. Except maybe moon landing truthers, but I refuse to believe that's how far gone things are. Contracting private entities when central planning fails and humiliating every other country on the planet by the audacity of doing so is one of the US' oldest pastimes, owing back to before even the revolutionary war.

The CDC is already embarrassed because Fauci claimed masks didn't work and was "proven wrong." (The CDC stance was to hoard, because people feared for the worse & PPE was low. It was a retarded policy with ongoing consequences.) The CDC also didn't conduct the studies they cite, but the study you are citing was conducted by the CDC. If the CDC is suspect, that's in favor of masks, not against it.
Addressing this study, voluntary mask usage is a likely contributing factor for why the delta was going down already before implementation. I'm not defending mask mandates, I'm defending masks. That requires a different set of data and a different mindset.

This was the preconceived opinion (the plebians will waste masks, docs need it more).
Addressing this study, I'm honestly kind of baffled at some of the claims and citations. One example is this paragraph:

Actually reading the study (even the abstract) demonstrates that is wrong, if not outright a lie. The study was asking if medical masks or N95 are better in the wild, not if masks work at all. The abstract says "no, N95s are not better," though the odds ratios are actually in the N95's favor pretty heavily, it's not a huge difference in effect size. At no point does the study claim that there is no protective effects from either. That isn't how non-inferiority works. Not a single analyzed study it had a "no mask" control, because why would they? In 2015 it was common knowledge that "masks work," so avoiding them for no reason would be unethical.
Back to the Stanford study, it also says things like "Although the overall findings showed reduced risk of virus transmission with facemasks, the analysis had severe limitations to draw conclusions."
Not very compelling.
Are you saying the $1.5 billion USD Moderna received from the feds plus joint development with the NIH was no facilitation and "modest" funding? 1.5 bil plus NIH's help sounds like a lot of help.

Yes, the CDC study I brought up concludes masks work and therefore favors it. I say the percentages that show how little masks work is to be scrutinized before one can say they actually "work." The reality is Florida's case numbers and patterns were not much different than mask fetish states like NY proportion wise and continue to show improvements as this virus passes through the population. That's taking into account the many snowbirds who flew down and vacationed in Florida during the winter holidays. Defending any use of masks in light of the actual reality of human behavior and Florida faring quite well despite the lack of mask use is telling, and is being conveniently ignored by mask lovers.

You can disagree with the meta analyses put forth by that Stanford academic. It doesn't mean it's false, especially taking into account human behaviors. The abstract does not mention N95 explicitly, IDK what you're citing. The study explores all kinds of facemasks. The sentence you cite, claiming the whole study is not compelling is a comment the author makes on one of many meta analyses used to explore the efficacy of masks. It is not the overall conclusion of the paper. The paper concludes the exact opposite thing: "The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks."

You can keep wearing your mask. I won't.
 
Contracting private entities when central planning fails and humiliating every other country on the planet by the audacity of doing so is one of the US' oldest pastimes, owing back to before even the revolutionary war.

The USA existed before the war of independence, and also humiliated other countries before that?

Go fuck yourself.
 
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Notice they said "following COVID shots" and not caused by COVID shots. Comparing VAERS data does not allow you to conclude that a vaccine is causing deaths, but noticing a spike in the trend should be alarming. We aren't even allowed to be alarmed now, great.
Neither of these are from the CDC, this is VAERS data, yes. VAERS is HHS proper as a joint effort between the FDA and CDC and none of the information is vetted or evaluated before entry, because it is intended to detect patterns, not verify events, as you say.
VAERS is also consumer data, which is why you're being misled.

How many other years factored in have we had with unprecedented public & physician attention, controversial vaccines, etc? None of them. VAERS deaths in other years are notoriously under-documented, and now they are not. The "spike in the trend" is that physicians are now reporting any and all to do their part in keeping patients safe in case the vaccines do turn out to be shit. It's like thinking that fires only happen if you call the firemen- no, campfires and bonfires happen too, it's just not until a drought that it's a good idea to keep the fire squad on hand.

If there were a spike in the trend that indicated unknown rare etiologies (HIT-like clotting) or abnormally high rates of relatively common disorders (anthrax vaccine controversy) then the medical community would be losing its shit and the vaccines would be pulled. All eyes are on VAERS. There isn't one yet.
It is also the case that it's deliberately easy to submit a VAERS report. The platform is notoriously abused, and I would not be surprised if there were also "interested individuals" attempting to shuffle in garbage for personal gain. It's old hat for grifters and lawyers and they may be active enough to make a dent.

Age 25 prego female 7 months along
Age 49 overweight male diabete
Age 50 female healthy
And none of them were on their death bed.
The virus is a nothing burger with extra fear sauce
Two of those I would not regularly expect to have complications and the last one (the diabete) still has acceptable odds, though he won a coin toss on hospitalization.

I'm just speculating, but could the death data be somewhat to do with old people getting vaccinated? Previously, old people did not receive very many vaccines at all, but they are the most prioritized for this vaccine, especially people living in nursing homes who are already having problems by definition. Being over 80 is a pretty good predictor of death. That, in combination with increased vigilance, could explain some of the change.
Also a good factor I didn't even consider, vaccinations were relatively infrequent in the elderly and physicians rarely reported deaths in the elderly even when they should have, prior to 2020/2021. Bolding my point.

Are you saying the $1.5 billion USD Moderna received from the feds plus joint development with the NIH was no facilitation and "modest" funding? 1.5 bil plus NIH's help sounds like a lot of help.

Defending any use of masks in light of the actual reality of human behavior and Florida faring quite well despite the lack of mask use is telling, and is being conveniently ignored by mask lovers.

You can disagree with the meta analyses put forth by that Stanford academic. It doesn't mean it's false, especially taking into account human behaviors. The abstract does not mention N95 explicitly, IDK what you're citing. The study explores all kinds of facemasks. The sentence you cite, claiming the whole study is not compelling is a comment the author makes on one of many meta analyses used to explore the efficacy of masks. It is not the overall conclusion of the paper. The paper concludes the exact opposite thing: "The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks."

You can keep wearing your mask. I won't.
1.5 billion is a drop in the water for vaccine development normally (market minimum 3 billion USD to break even, up to 9 billion for new tech), and the NIH helps pretty much everyone in the US develop drugs. I am curious how deep the partnership was now though, I don't recall seeing "joint" before. I'm not overly enthralled with Moderna in the first place, and neither are the outcomes, really.

Mask usage in Florida was not abnormally low. Surveys indicate between a 50% and 70% mask participation rate, without mandates. That was my point: the mandates are not the debate I'm having, the fact that the velocity of new cases generally decreased in Florida as mask rates went up is. It's a multifaceted issue, but one semi-anecdote with so many confounders does not constitute a reason to outright abandon the data.

On the topic of the Stanford academic, I agree with the meta analysis he cites and think they are good data, I believe he cites them in bad faith and likely hasn't read them. Even though he makes the final conclusion that the data is supporting against (?) the use of facemask, a cursory read of his sources say the opposite, when they're even relevant. It's my fault for not linking the one I discussed directly though: here you go. Read it yourself. He makes shit up about it and you don't need to get past the abstract to see it. That was where I stopped trying to rationalize his mistakes and realized he was most likely being dishonest

I don't have the time to run through every source and see how he lied about/misrepresented this one or that one, especially when he has zero confidence in his own data, which is why he cites larger and more thorough analysis that concludes literally the opposite of what he wants to be true.
This paper is not a rock in the ocean, it isn't a good thing to base all these conclusions off of. That's why I said you should look into it more- just because it makes it on the PMC does not mean that it is good research. It is not well-cited, fuck, it isn't even poorly cited, the dude chucked as many citations in as he could hoping for quid pro quo and he got two back. That's dismal, even for science review. Stanford has disavowed the guy and claimed he was a visiting scholar, and this is not his specialty, by the way.
While researching this paper again I found out that at least one website has helped address some of the bullshit.

Finally, as I hoped I made abundantly clear, I don't care if you wear your mask. I am giving you as much possible support as I can muster on an autistic cowtipping forum on the internet in figuring out why you should do so if you want to avoid infection and have not been vaccinated, but it's not exactly the end of the world if you turn that down. It's not an emotional or moralizing thing.

This post already got way too long as new things to reply to trickled in, but I wanted to add on the "Stanford guy," part of why I'm being so hard on him is because deliberately misusing a single source is a cardinal sin in methodological science, you don't get a "but I couldn't help it, the evidence disagreed with me!!!" free pass. The article would never be published in a peer reviewed journal with QC because they do read sources and they do make sure you aren't just making shit up and claiming to cite someone else. Which is why it wasn't, it was published in Med Hypotheses instead, the non-peer-reviewed "debate journal" notorious for publishing AIDS denialism, a conspiracy which is a distant memory now, but is the unabashed belief that HIV doesn't cause AIDS spread primarily from Africa.
It isn't a bad journal per se, simply reviewed for debate, not scientifically sound conclusions. In other words, it's only as credible or compelling as the author is. I would not trust him to conclude what I'd eat for dinner, let alone overwrite dozens upon dozens of studies corroborating the efficacy of masks.
 
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I didn’t ask a question. I told you to go fuck yourself.
"The USA existed before the war of independence, and also humiliated other countries before that?" is a question and one you shouldn't ask unless you want an answer. Your asspain is not a question, and still not related to COVID, as it happens.

Edit: I'm not going to keep responding to your posts if you're off topic, because not even a shitty 2k pages threads deserve to get derailed that lazily. Make you asking me to go fuck myself somehow related to COVID, or just go dilate instead.
 
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Anyway, tired of arguing with the "TRUST THE SCIENCE" types. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Glad I'm doing my waiting in an open mask free state.
I live in a mask free state now too, i even went to a dave n busters like 2 weeks ago. Not vaxxed or anything. I've been fine except from sitting fatigue from a year of isolation. If i can go to a fucking arcade in a state where people dont give a fuck about masks and be fine, there is nothing to worry about. I'm at risk of the virus too on top of all that.
 
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