The rich send their kids to private schools that don't use technology (Personal Computers)

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

Most of these aren't even true. #2 is only true if your time has no value to you. 3 and 4 are also simply untrue. 5 is the biggest problem, but that's more of an issue with the general direction the tech industry has been headed because until recently these softwares did not require subscriptions. The first one is the most non-reason of them all. Yeah, hand drafting requires measuring angles with a protractor instead of putting a number in. What's your point? You calling me empty soulless automaton rings hollow when the only argument you can come up with is that I'm "coping" and a "soybug." Learn to talk like a human instead of parroting meaningless drivel like that.

Oh and also you're that tard who got angry about the PMs because you don't understand how they work and made a big "Look everyone, I can code!" post and you still don't understand what you did wrong there. Haha, that's how I know I'm better than you. Call me cope seethe soy dilate some more, lemme have it.

I always hate 'time value' argument when it comes to discussions like this. Abstracting away vital understanding of your craft for a computer to handle all the computations is a bullshit argument. If you become so reliant on the use of the software to perform your job's tasks, then you shouldn't call yourself an architect, engineer or whatever CAD software provides.

Most of the programming things I've been tasked with have resulted in me spending 80% of the time writing down all the problems and issues that I know will present themselves in deploying it (with relation to the language I'm using) and then 15% is spent deploying, bug fixing and iterating.

If I just went straight in and didn't use the internal knowledge of my head, I would end up wasting MORE time as a result in redundant time spent looking up shit over and over because I didn't take the time to learn it on paper first.

Point is, you missed the point.
Children develop better in environments with less technology.
Children learn better working with their hands.
Knowledge is better retained when you are writing it down and not typing it.
Technology ruins children's dopamine receptors.
The elite who inundate us with technology, most likely have none in their own homes.
Etc, etc.
Again, I don't give a fuck that you play with CAD software. Stop thinking only about yourself you pathetic weeb hedonist.

This is why I actually thank my parents for not constantly surrounding me with tech as a kid (well there really wasn't any but mainly computers). I didn't get my hands on a computer till I was 6 or 7, and it was 30 mins a day at most until I was about 11. All the other time was spent reading and other learning activities, not brain numbing videos on YouTube of Elsa and Spiderman going at it.

When I have children (hopefully in the next 5 years), I'm going to employ the same strategy and not let them use technology really until they're > 10 years old. It's going to be reading books, taking them to musicals and drama, and actively treating them like a child and not letting the tech kneecap their intelligence.

 

[Un Platano]

I always hate 'time value' argument when it comes to discussions like this. Abstracting away vital understanding of your craft for a computer to handle all the computations is a bullshit argument. If you become so reliant on the use of the software to perform your job's tasks, then you shouldn't call yourself an architect, engineer or whatever CAD software provides.

Most of the programming things I've been tasked with have resulted in me spending 80% of the time writing down all the problems and issues that I know will present themselves in deploying it (with relation to the language I'm using) and then 15% is spent deploying, bug fixing and iterating.

If I just went straight in and didn't use the internal knowledge of my head, I would end up wasting MORE time as a result in redundant time spent looking up shit over and over because I didn't take the time to learn it on paper first.

That all depends on the nature of your work. If you're trying to design new and novel architecture or trying to model a particularly bizarre part, then the merits of hand drafting are made apparent. But the vast majority of people drafting designs are not doing this. Most users of CAD programs are doing routine operations that they've done a hundred or a thousand times before in some capacity, and that's why CAD has been adopted so much. I am very good at drawing straight lines with a ruler and 90 degree angles with a square and there is no reason for me to do this by hand anymore. There is not one company on earth that has has switched from CAD to hand drafting because they thought it would save them money or time. CAD certainly does not eliminate the thought process that goes into drafting because you still have to manually decide where every element is going to go, but it makes the mechanical process of implementing those elements many times faster. Companies might wish we had a black magic program that does all of the actual drafting work for you, but that's not what CAD does. The A stands for Aided, not Automated.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

Point is, you missed the point.
Children develop better in environments with less technology.
Children learn better working with their hands.
Knowledge is better retained when you are writing it down and not typing it.
Technology ruins children's dopamine receptors.
The elite who inundate us with technology, most likely have none in their own homes.
Etc, etc.
Again, I don't give a fuck that you play with CAD software. Stop thinking only about yourself you pathetic weeb hedonist.

This could have been boiled down to “teaching through experience.” I think, though I may be incorrect, that it’s the same principle behind letting children occasionally fuck up so that they can experience the consequences first hand. It’s all relative to how involved you are.

 

[Un Platano]

Point is, you missed the point.
Children develop better in environments with less technology.
Children learn better working with their hands.
Knowledge is better retained when you are writing it down and not typing it.
Technology ruins children's dopamine receptors.
The elite who inundate us with technology, most likely have none in their own homes.
Etc, etc.
Again, I don't give a fuck that you play with CAD software. Stop thinking only about yourself you pathetic weeb hedonist.

The only point I missed here was not including "weeb" in the list of buzzwords because I had a feeling you were going to have to resort to that one. My point about CAD was one about learning a skill involving using technology that you then turned into a retarded argument because you think hand drafting is better despite apparently not caring about drafting.

The only thing out of this list that anything you've actually linked to suggests is that knowledge retention is better with written notes than typed. Developing "better" in a technology-free environment is a value judgement that you have pulled out of your ass. Frying dopamine receptors is a more quantifiable quality that you also appear to have pulled out of your ass.

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

\

That all depends on the nature of your work. If you're trying to design new and novel architecture or trying to model a particularly bizarre part, then the merits of hand drafting are made apparent. But the vast majority of people drafting designs are not doing this. Most users of CAD programs are doing routine operations that they've done a hundred or a thousand times before in some capacity, and that's why CAD has been adopted so much. I am very good at drawing straight lines with a ruler and 90 degree angles with a square and there is no reason for me to do this by hand anymore. There is not one company on earth that has has switched from CAD to hand drafting because they thought it would save them money or time. CAD certainly does not eliminate the thought process that goes into drafting because you still have to manually decide where every element is going to go, but it makes the mechanical process of implementing those elements many times faster. Companies might wish we had a black magic program that does all of the actual drafting work for you, but that's not what CAD does. The A stands for Aided, not Automated.

Oh absolutely. I mean for new learning endeavours. I've seen peers exclusively use editors and software to learn new skills, rather than the old fashion way. They end up learning how to use it, but not the understanding as to why they're using it.

 

[Devyn]

This is the part where I will say that new kids are actually very tech illiterate, the boomer meme is false.
By that logic all boomers are TV repairman because all they did was watch TV.

Lol exactly. It's a strange delusion humanity seems prone to--this idea that advancements in technology are automatically tracked by simultaneous advancements in overall human intelligence. The arrogance is unfounded and absurd.

Could You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895?​

This is the 8th grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, Kansas. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, Kansas, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

Imagine a college student who went to public school trying to pass this test today, even if the few outdated questions were modernized. This gives the saying of an early 20th century person that "She/He only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning!

http://web.archive.org/web/20030704083703/http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/quizzes/8thgrade_test.cfm

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

Lol exactly. It's a strange delusion humanity seems prone to--this idea that advancements in technology are automatically tracked by simultaneous advancements in overall human intelligence. The arrogance is unfounded and absurd.

Since my realisation and experience with this first hand, I've assumed the inverse. The gross intelligence of humanity decreases as systems become more complex. Not because humans are becoming dumber, they're actually the same. It's just that the professional development and complexity of systems is far beyond the comprehension of any layman today.

 

[DJ Grelle]

Computers are a far better resource than any library is for finding information efficiently. No, I do not care about how much better you think the subjective experience of opening a book is to combing through PDFs. For actual academic purposes a computer with database access will always beat a physical library in both the amount of information available as well as the time required to find the information. Retaining knowledge is not always the goal for learning, especially in a university environment like what the study details. It's equally important to know how to quickly and efficiently access information that's not worth retaining. Eschewing digital resources because they don't align with your tradfag worldview is robbing students of a valuable resource. The old retort of "what are you going to do if you don't have a calculator with you?" doesn't even work anymore because the reality of our world today is that there's not many scenarios where you won't have a calculator with you, unless you fancy solving math problems while swimming. The problem lies in how students are taught to use the resources you give them.

You're wrong.
Maybe a thousandth, no a millionth of information is accessible in digital form. Paper is still the fundamental medium of archiving. There are literally hunderds of km of bookshelves that are not digitalised, and an order of magnitude larger of archives. Is the digital faster to search stuff? Not really. Search engines are not very optimized and I can scroll for hours through pages to just find a few resources that might be interesting. On the other hand, if I go to the library, walk to the location that corresponds to the DDC number of my theme, and just let my eyes drift over the shelves I immediately find stuff that might be interesting. I can go to archives, tell the archivist "I'm looking for X" and they'll help me getting it and they'll also tell me about Y and Z that might be interesting.
>oh but you cant ctrl+f in a book
unless you know which passage you are trying to find, ctrl+f is pretty fucking useless in research.
Any academic worth his salt knows how to and actively uses libraries and archives.

 

[Blamo]

Since my realisation and experience with this first hand, I've assumed the inverse. The gross intelligence of humanity decreases as systems become more complex. Not because humans are becoming dumber, they're actually the same. It's just that the professional development and complexity of systems is far beyond the comprehension of any layman today.

Not to mention the constant distraction, noise and the lack of time or effort to reflect basically doesn't allow many people to live up to their potential.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Lol exactly. It's a strange delusion humanity seems prone to--this idea that advancements in technology are automatically tracked by simultaneous advancements in overall human intelligence. The arrogance is unfounded and absurd.

The worst part of Star Trek thinking is that people forget that to reach that "noblebright techno" future, they had to go through a genocidal WW3 so bad that it actually convinced everyone remaining that we can't do this anymore.

People think that surrounding yourself with techie shit will take them to the Star Trek future. Instead, it seems to make most people deluded, arrogant pricks.

 

[Blamo]

The worst part of Star Trek thinking is that people forget that to reach that "noblebright techno" future, they had to go through a genocidal WW3 so bad that it actually convinced everyone remaining that we can't do this anymore.

People think that surrounding yourself with techie shit will take them to the Star Trek future. Instead, it seems to make most people deluded, arrogant pricks.

There we both see a Federation (and most races really) that manages technology in a way that Humans and other aliens have a reason to do stuff and their culture is driven enough to actually go out there and discover the stars.

 

[BootlegPopeye]

While I'm sympathetic to the thrust of the ops articles, one has to play devil's advocate here a bit and ask ourselves how well formed are the children of big tech elites in the first place? Do they seem well-rounded, insightful, altruistic? No, from what I've seen they are just as hedonistic and soulless as the commoners they are supposedly above, and probably more so.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Computers are a far better resource than any library is for finding information efficiently.

Big problem with searching for stuff online in Current Year is just how crappy search engines are now.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

While I'm sympathetic to the thrust of the ops articles, one has to play devil's advocate here a bit and ask ourselves how well formed are the children of big tech elites in the first place? Do they seem well-rounded, insightful, altruistic? No, from what I've seen they are just as hedonistic and soulless as the commoners they are supposedly above, and probably more so.

Probably has more to do with having far more resources and connections than the average human could ever fathom. The fact that the "commoners" turn out just as spoiled and greedy despite not having such an extensive foundation says a lot. Cheap, accessible technology is increasingly being used as a substitute for actual parenting.

 

[Kosher Dill]

When I have children (hopefully in the next 5 years), I'm going to employ the same strategy and not let them use technology really until they're > 10 years old.

Are you going to let them have friends? Because unless all of them are being raised the same way, it's a lost cause. I know people with kids they've tried to raise with minimal "screen time", but when their friends have parents perfectly willing to park them in front of Thomas The God Damned Tank Engine for 8 hours...

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

Are you going to let them have friends? Because unless all of them are being raised the same way, it's a lost cause. I know people with kids they've tried to raise with minimal "screen time", but when their friends have parents perfectly willing to park them in front of Thomas The God Damned Tank Engine for 8 hours...

I'm going to raise them the same way I was raised. I was pissed off somewhat as a kid, but I realise now how beneficial that was. I was allowed to use the computer and sometimes disobeyed them and used them when I wasn't, but my parents didn't act like fucking hippies about it. They just said that I could use it when I wanted to, and the time limit was it (no timers or monitors on the computer either). I'm not shielding them or going to be a helicopter parent, but hopefully teach them the importance of separation of what you can source enjoyment from.

 

[Erika Furudo]

Retention is fucking retarded. There is no way in hell you're going to be in some job where all the details matter and they won't consult the literature. "Sorry Dave, but we can't let you use the database, you need to remember all the specifications of this material before putting it into our expensive prototype".

Schools methods are outdated, everyone now has an item in their pocket that is both a calculator and something with access to any web resources on the interent.

 

[DumbDude42]

Computers are a far better resource than any library is for finding information efficiently. No, I do not care about how much better you think the subjective experience of opening a book is to combing through PDFs. For actual academic purposes a computer with database access will always beat a physical library in both the amount of information available as well as the time required to find the information. Retaining knowledge is not always the goal for learning, especially in a university environment like what the study details. It's equally important to know how to quickly and efficiently access information that's not worth retaining. Eschewing digital resources because they don't align with your tradfag worldview is robbing students of a valuable resource. The old retort of "what are you going to do if you don't have a calculator with you?" doesn't even work anymore because the reality of our world today is that there's not many scenarios where you won't have a calculator with you, unless you fancy solving math problems while swimming. The problem lies in how students are taught to use the resources you give them.

One of my personal experiences with this is with drafting. I learned drafting by hand before I learned CAD and what it taught me is why I like CAD. Anyone who really thinks hand drafting has advantages over CAD is out of their mind and destined for art school. And that's how computers should be handled as an educational resource: teach students why computers are a useful resource. Damning them to a life of obsolescence because you can't be bothered to teach them is a horrible solution to the problem of poor utilization of technology.

retard post
of course torrenting a textbook is faster than walking to your local library. that's not even remotely relevant to the topic at hand, cause kids in school don't make their own "hmm what book should i pick for learning about quantum mechanics" decisions anyway, they get their material from teachers or parents.

the big problem is that computers, phones and tablets are hyper efficient distraction devices. this does not matter to seasoned tech veterans who are used to getting work done on the pc, but to normies and especially to children this is fatal.
yes in theory bringing up a pdf on your screen and jumping to the page you want is faster than going through a book. in practice though it just results in the kid tabbing out of the pdf and browsing twitter/9gag/reddit/twitch instead, or going straight to playing fortnite. at the end of the day, nothing gets done, nothing is learned, time and resources are wasted, and no education is gained.

Retention is fucking retarded. There is no way in hell you're going to be in some job where all the details matter and they won't consult the literature. "Sorry Dave, but we can't let you use the database, you need to remember all the specifications of this material before putting it into our expensive prototype".

Schools methods are outdated, everyone now has an item in their pocket that is both a calculator and something with access to any web resources on the interent.

another retard take
this "i dont need to learn anything i can just look it up on demand lol" approach completely falls apart when you start trying to get into advanced topics that build on those fundamentals you eschewed.
like, good fucking luck trying to learn about advanced organic chemistry reactions when you never even bothered what protons/electrons/neutrons are, have no idea what an orbital is, and your only concept of an acid is "tastes sour lol"

 

[Kosher Dill]

this "i dont need to learn anything i can just look it up on demand lol" approach completely falls apart when you start trying to get into advanced topics that build on those fundamentals you eschewed.

Doesn't even have to be that advanced. Ever tried discussing household finance with someone who can't multiply without a calculator? They'll say "Just tell me what to type in" and get stuck if you don't, because they never developed the reasoning skills that go hand-in-hand with learning the fundamentals.

 

[L50LasPak]

This is pretty old news, honestly. I swear I read this same article ten years ago.