Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Since everybody's assuming that the special thing about Omega that makes her so important to the Kaminoans is that she's a force sensitive clone, what's the alternative possible conclusion here? The only clone with a chip loyal to them? Extra Special super soldier? Or just plain girl power?
 
Since everybody's assuming that the special thing about Omega that makes her so important to the Kaminoans is that she's a force sensitive clone, what's the alternative possible conclusion here? The only clone with a chip loyal to them? Extra Special super soldier? Or just plain girl power?
Perhaps they wonder how did they end up with a girl when cloning a boy. Of course it's just girl power, because what else.
 
Rey raised by grandpalpy Sheev, jumping from hideout to hideout one step ahead of the clone death squads, when she reaches 18 she goes off to free the galaxy from the cloned iron fist of the Kaminoans and usher in the New Order that should've been... now that would be cool

Obi-Wan and Yoda reluctantly team up with Vader to train Luke when Vader realizes Rey will replace him and he leaves the pathetic remnants of the "Empire..." Just as Rey and Palpy crush the Kaminoans under their boots, it's Luke and Vader! The Vader-Luke vs Palpy-Rey lightsaber fight we never knew we needed. We can still have the rule the galaxy as father and son line, Vader can still turn back to the light side at the last second, Rey and Palpy and the Kaminoans die...

But no ones ever really gone
 
This is what the Clone Wars should have been.
I suppose you can have a WW1-style movie out of that. Two armies of clones identical to each other, slaughtering each other. But it won't lead to an Empire like in the OT. All it will end up with is two armies of clones overthrowing their masters when they realize their masters use them as expendable pawns.

No Palpatine, no Vader, no Tarkin, just clones running the new regime after overthrowing the Kaminoans and the Republic/Jedi.

That is a good point. Of course they do need to have the cooperation of the systems of resources and industry. That would be a messy thing to do with coercion. Another interesting point to consider is how isolated Kaminoans are. Sometimes lack of information and sense of scale can both really embolden or moderate somebody.
That's not a problem after the Clone Wars. The clone army at the time would be the strongest army in the galaxy, and they can easily coerce resource and shipbuilding worlds to give them what they want.

What I could imagine happening is that they don't take over the Republic, but they basically lease the army to Palpatine. I think the people of Kamino are cold and calculating. This brain chip implant is really potent. What is stopping from it being used at key targets? I am sure Kamino could afford to hire mercs and other shady people after their fortunes were already made in the Clone Wars.
The way I see it, once the Clone Wars are over, the Kaminoans would tell Palpatine to screw off and have a Rome 476 AD scenario where the soldiers of the Empire overthrow the Emperor. If the Kaminoans had the brains to put in commands in the inhibitor chips to ensure the clones' loyalty to Kamino, there would be no reason for the Kaminoans to lease the army to Palpatine-they would just cut the middleman out and take the galaxy for themselves. Maybe they'll keep the Senate as a way to ensure the loyalty of many of the systems, maybe they might even put in a puppet senator as Emperor for them to control, but they would have all the cards in play.

Also they could easily, just use the hole in the market that was the destruction of many major droid workships. If you can clone the ideal soldier, why not the ideal worker? The precedent is already set with clones, that the Republic's anti slavery laws don't apply if you were grown in a vat.
More likely they would just enslave the denizens of the galaxy for manual labor and have the clones blow the brains out of any insubordinate slaves. Or perhaps, just re-activate the CIS Battle Droids and make them worker droids.

The chip retcon just keeps shooting itself in the foot, and your post shows Filoni and crew can't even do anything decent with it when it wouldn't even be that hard. If they really wanted to pull that chip bullshit while still having rebel clone characters with some free will like they're trying to forcefully pull off with this Crosshair character, they could've at least had it so the chip shit was only a thing in later batches or something. Instead these people can't seem to decide how to even portray these chip clones. In the end, the only reason this chip shit was even made was because having the clone OCs actually be loyal to their indoctrination would be "too dark" and "muh precious OCs would never do that!" logic. Chip shit wasn't even needed since even in old canon the number of Rebel clones was a grand minority outside of one planet in Dark Horse, since that's what happens when you're bred for war and indoctrinated since birth.
That would actually work. The earlier batches would be more noble and heroic, but the later batches would be more cruel and bloodthirsty. You can have a story where Rex runs across some new soldiers for the 501st who are oddly well-trained in how to kill Jedi and who barely even talk to him, taking orders more from Chancellor Palpatine and his officers. Imagine if, instead of making Crosshair the villain, the Bad Batch runs across some black-ops Clone Commando squad full of ruthless killers who aren't afraid to kill children. The BB run across some Padawan kids who befriend Omega and help them out, then this new commando squad comes into the picture by brutally murdering the Padawans and earning the eternal ire of the Bad Batch.

He's basically pulling a shitty Traviss maneuver by trying to overly humanize the clones, but while completely throwing away the whole theme of being bred for war and loyalty.
It's still nowhere near as shitty as Traviss' demonization of the Jedi. It's more along the lines of what happened to Cipher 9 in SWTOR, but placed into an entire army. Being an expert on Sith history, I can see Palpatine doing that.

These cold and uncaring fucks even believe in eugenics, and will not just kill their clones, but even their own children for any sign of "imperfection".
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Hell with the way they bred clones, they didn't even need chips. Its a cold and emotionless society of perfectionists, so throwing chips in and giving every clone individuality is even more silly and removes any of the harsher and interesting story elements that could come from such a twisted background (its like a THX-1138 scenario over here where these tragic soulless meatbags are just forced to train and walk through empty colorless halls everyday to await the day they're allowed to leave only to die in wars they've only read about). But with Filoni, the Kaminoans are just another greedy happy merchant parody (which was most noted during that corny Senate Murders story of TCW) and the clones are just as campy as 80s GI Joes minus the PSAs and the ability to die (unless they're Rex & friends).
Which again, shows that before the Jedi got involved with the clones, their lives were hell.
 
It's still nowhere near as shitty as Traviss' demonization of the Jedi. It's more along the lines of what happened to Cipher 9 in SWTOR, but placed into an entire army. Being an expert on Sith history, I can see Palpatine doing that.
I still consider both Traviss and Wolfloni just as bad as the other in terms of OC fellating, a spastic love for clones and being overly self-indulgent. Only difference is one had an obsessive hateboner for the jedi while the other can't stomach anything unless he created it or gets "re-imagined" in his own inner image.


 
I still consider both Traviss and Wolfloni just as bad as the other in terms of OC fellating, a spastic love for clones and being overly self-indulgent. Only difference is one had an obsessive hateboner for the jedi while the other can't stomach anything unless he created it or gets "re-imagined" in his own inner image.

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I'll take Filoni over Traviss anyday. At least he still gets the gist of Lucas'message as opposed to turning his heroes into uncaring tyrants.
 
I suppose you can have a WW1-style movie out of that. Two armies of clones identical to each other, slaughtering each other. But it won't lead to an Empire like in the OT. All it will end up with is two armies of clones overthrowing their masters when they realize their masters use them as expendable pawns.

I forgot what thread I was in for a second Let me rephrase myself with exacting specificity. The whole "Kaminoians use their reprogrammed clones to take over the Empire, or nearly so" part, not just Boba Fett putting down a proto-rebellion.

The Republic has been using Clones for their military for years. The Republic military is small. Most of the Planetary Defense Forces from the core systems also use Clones. Because who cares if some clones die in battle? The only planets still using real people are planets with warrior honor like Mandalore and Mon Calimari, or planets too poor to afford them, like Tatooine. And maybe planets like Naboo that believe using clones as expendable cannon fodders is wrong.

Manipulated by Sideous, the Kaminoians have been putting secret Kamino loyalty programs into their Clones. The Trade Federation uses droids because of TechnoUnion. So TPM goes about the same until the last parts; Battle on Naboo is going poorly until Big Dick Palpatine shows up with a star destoryer Assault Ship and small squad of Republic reinforcements he illegally requisitioned that turns the tide briefly, but Anakin still has to save the day with the killshot.

AotC has the Clones go full baddie; TCW/RotS shows us the scramble the Republic is having to try to now replace their clone elites with conscripts from their member worlds, and dealing with the suspicion the non-kamino grown loyal clones face. And its all a Xantos gambit by Sideous - the republic has to become the empire and give him the reins. If they win, he has the empire. IF they lose, he is effectively in control of the Kaminoians as well.

That would be an actual Clone War.

Hell, you could have used them as ST villains. The New Republic had to use clones because recruitment into a central army was too hot of a political topic - not to mention the logistics And the First Order comes back, lead by rogue Kaminoians, and turns all the clones evil. No need to explain where they got all their cool hardware; they got it from the republic.
Shit, they would be going on about literal genetic purity - you can be fighting literally genocidal space nazis, with the message being diversity is our strength as they are defeated.
 
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B-But remember, guise? Filoni is "George Lucas' disciple"!!!11! He understands and respects George's vision...

...which is why he's violating Lucas' intentions for TCW and its characters at every turn, to satisfy his own creative impulses.
One of the most outrageous violations for me was when he gave Obi Wan a ex fuck buddy named Satine after he gave Anakin all that Jedi code mumbo jumbo about needing to keep his dick in his pants from Padme. That made him look like a hypocrite.
 
B-But remember, guise? Filoni is "George Lucas' disciple"!!!11! He understands and respects George's vision...

...which is why he's violating Lucas' intentions for TCW and its characters at every turn, to satisfy his own creative impulses.

I knew I should have bought copium futures on Thursday. Fuck. At least my memberberry options are still up.


One of the most outrageous violations for me was when he gave Obi Wan a ex fuck buddy named Satine after he gave Anakin all that Jedi code mumbo jumbo about needing to keep his dick in his pants from Padme. That made him look like a hypocrite.

Obi & Satine stuck to oral & anal. As the Jedi are Catholic, it means it didn't count. Anakin very clearly was cucked by Rex violated Jedi doctrine on at least one occasion.
 
One of the most outrageous violations for me was when he gave Obi Wan a ex fuck buddy named Satine after he gave Anakin all that Jedi code mumbo jumbo about needing to keep his dick in his pants from Padme. That made him look like a hypocrite.
And that relationship didn't work on its own merits. Satine was wildly incompetent at her job despite the show insisting otherwise.
 
One of the most outrageous violations for me was when he gave Obi Wan a ex fuck buddy named Satine after he gave Anakin all that Jedi code mumbo jumbo about needing to keep his dick in his pants from Padme. That made him look like a hypocrite.
In fairness, that did go towards explaining why Obi never said anything about Anakin and Padme's obvious relationship - because he knew what it was like to be young and passionate, too.
And that relationship didn't work on its own merits. Satine was wildly incompetent at her job despite the show insisting otherwise.
The infamous "Poisoned Tea" episode comes to mind.
 
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In fairness, that did go towards explaining why Obi never said anything about Anakin and Padme's obvious relationship - because he knew what it was like to be young and passionate, too.

The infamous "Poisoned Tea" episode comes to mind.
When her Royal Guard gets BTFOd every time Death Watch or random criminals show up, it's time for them to get some serious battlefield experience.
 
In fairness, that did go towards explaining why Obi never said anything about Anakin and Padme's obvious relationship - because he knew what it was like to be young and passionate, too.
And that relationship didn't work on its own merits. Satine was wildly incompetent at her job despite the show insisting otherwise.
^Both of these.

I don't have a problem with Obi-Wan having a failed romance in his past that he regards as something of a mistake, and swiftly buries under the rug as a part of his youthful impulse. If anything, it would go a long way to explain why Obi-Wan is such a stickler for the rules (among many other reasons) while his Master Qui-Gon was more of a Maverick that did whatever the fuck he wanted in spite of the Council's wishes. I even think the EU did something similar with a character called Siri Tachi (even though I'm a ways from discovering how it was executed).

My issue is that the romance with Satine just isn't good. It's a romance that's repeatedly told to us, and never shown to us. She and Obi-Wan don't have an ounce of believable or compelling chemistry on-screen, and there's literally nothing that happens between them to make me buy the notion that Obi-Wan would have been tempted to leave the Order and walk away from everything just to be with her. If anything, their constant bouting over their clashing moralistic ideals suggests otherwise, and is never resolved for the entirety of the show. I'm just supposed to believe that Satine is Obi-Wan's "one true love of his life" simply because the show tells me, which is the exact brand of vapid, childish writing that plagues 90% of TCW's script.

And yes, Satine's relentless clinging to pacifism is fucking retarded, and has all the naunce and realism as Merlina Peacecraft's skull-splittingly dumb brand of pacifism from the weapons-grade narrative trashfire that is Gundam Wing. It is pacifism written through the lens of a toddler's understanding of war (kind of like the rest of TCW, tbh), and never once convincingly shows why Satine's line of thought is in any way justified or effective whatsoever.

I'm not even a Mando fetishist, and I can understand why Karen Traviss walked away from this pants-on-head, blithering idiocy. There is no writing around lore & culture this moronic.
 
When her Royal Guard gets BTFOd every time Death Watch or random criminals show up, it's time for them to get some serious battlefield experience.

In all fairness, that is far from the most ridiculous lengths I've seen someone go to in order to have an excuse to hang out with their crush.
 
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B-But remember, guise? Filoni is "George Lucas' disciple"!!!11! He understands and respects George's vision...

...which is why he's violating Lucas' intentions for TCW and its characters at every turn, to satisfy his own creative impulses.
Well, Anakin was a student of the Jedi ways, that didn't stop him from shooting up the temple due to frustrations about his marriage life and office politics.
 
I genuinely don’t understand this obsession with canon. Seriously, who the fuck cares what some evil corporation tells you is canon or not? Just like with Star Wars, there’s literally nothing stopping you from going, “nah, the old shit’s still canon for me, I don’t give a crap about your new shit”. If YIJC and the original trilogy represent your Indy, nothing Disney does can take that away from you.

Canonicity only matters when there’s mutual respect between the fans and the creators. It isn’t a weapon that can be used to coerce and bludgeon unruly fans into submission - once the fans decide that they no longer care to listen to the creators and would rather start deciding their own canon, all of that perceived power over the fans is completely lost.
The bad thing about what's canon or not is that no new media will ever be made in the old canon. I'd really like to see an RTS or an RPG set in the Imperial Warlords era for one (Thrawn's Revenge does amazing job but there's only so much you can do with the Empire at War engine). The good thing is that no new media will ever be made in the old canon.
 
^Both of these.

I don't have a problem with Obi-Wan having a failed romance in his past that he regards as something of a mistake, and swiftly buries under the rug as a part of his youthful impulse. If anything, it would go a long way to explain why Obi-Wan is such a stickler for the rules (among many other reasons) while his Master Qui-Gon was more of a Maverick that did whatever the fuck he wanted in spite of the Council's wishes. I even think the EU did something similar with a character called Siri Tachi (even though I'm a ways from discovering how it was executed).

My issue is that the romance with Satine just isn't good. It's a romance that's repeatedly told to us, and never shown to us. She and Obi-Wan don't have an ounce of believable or compelling chemistry on-screen, and there's literally nothing that happens between them to make me buy the notion that Obi-Wan would have been tempted to leave the Order and walk away from everything just to be with her. If anything, their constant bouting over their clashing moralistic ideals suggests otherwise, and is never resolved for the entirety of the show. I'm just supposed to believe that Satine is Obi-Wan's "one true love of his life" simply because the show tells me, which is the exact brand of vapid, childish writing that plagues 90% of TCW's script.

And yes, Satine's relentless clinging to pacifism is fucking retarded, and has all the naunce and realism as Merlina Peacecraft's skull-splittingly dumb brand of pacifism from the weapons-grade narrative trashfire that is Gundam Wing. It is pacifism written through the lens of a toddler's understanding of war (kind of like the rest of TCW, tbh), and never once convincingly shows why Satine's line of thought is in any way justified or effective whatsoever.

I'm not even a Mando fetishist, and I can understand why Karen Traviss walked away from this pants-on-head, blithering idiocy. There is no writing around lore & culture this moronic.
To be fair, the "romance" is barely even a romance at all-they don't kiss, hug, or even show any form of affection outside of verbal language. It's more like a celibate man telling an old flame of his that he MIGHT have gone for it in the past, but not now.

Blame Lucas for Satine and her pacifism. He was always a sucker for that anti-militaristic crap ever since Phantom Menace where he tried to make a saint out of Padme Amidala for not wanting to start a war. The less influence Lucas had over the show, the more Filoni replaced Satine with her sister Bo-Katan who was just the average warrior type Mandalorian. By the late TCW era, the pacifist Mandalorians are all gone, replaced by the Death Watch Mandalorians who either served Bo-Katan or Darth Maul.

As much as people on this forum love to rag on Filoni for not being 100% loyal to the old EU canon, in the end, Filoni was an EU fanboy too, to the point where he made Jango a Mandalorian again in the Mandalorian show, he has KOTOR and Republic Commando references here and there, and everything he does is inspired by one piece of the Expanded Universe or another. He even brought Thrawn into Rebels along with things like the Interdictor Cruiser and the TIE Defender, and his ending for Thrawn in Rebels places him in the Unknown Regions-just like how Thrawn in the novels started off in the Unknown Regions before returning to known space and taking over the Empire. And given that the man was still alive by the time of the Mandalorian, he obviously will have his comeback once again, probably something similar to the Thrawn Trilogy novels.

Also, Karen Traviss walking out was probably the best thing that could have happened to the Mandalorian culture. Her writing turned a culture that saw war as the height of existence and who threw away conventional morality in favor of testing themselves through battle into a bunch of whiny SJW-type retards who bitch about how the Jedi were evil and how they have the moral high ground when compared to the Jedi. The KOTOR 1 & 2 Mandalorians nearly got genocided by a Jedi, and yet you don't see them whining about the Jedi the way the Traviss Mandos do. At least Filoni's Death Watch Mandos are just your standard warrior-type Mandos who don't even pretend to have a stake on the moral high ground-they're just assholes who shoot things up and who want their nation to be strong, which is understandable when compared to a bunch of Mary Sue Mandalorians who don't even accomplish anything meaningful.
 
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