Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Queen of cats]

On the topic of Alastor. I would like to mention that Alastor was originally going to have a love interest with a girl demon that owned a flower shop but instead they scarped that idea and make him ace. Which is a shame because a powerful cannibalistic, serial killer demon have a crush on a florist would of been adorable. Or at least in my opinion.

Yeah I do think that would have been rather endearing in a opposites attract kind of way. Evil people in love can be an endearing trope all together though

 

[GaddafyTheLooneyDuck]

If Faust had kept her mouth shut, the shitstorm over shipping Alastor in particular most likely wouldn’t have gotten as huge as it did. Viv has made it known that she didn’t want to step on any toes in regards to shipping and would’ve preferred to keep Alastor’s sexuality a secret so shippers could have fun.

Let's not put all the blame on Faust here. I find it really naive to believe that Vivienne would have really kept Alastor's sexuality a secret just to please shippers. First, she gets open about her characters' sexualities soon or later. Faust's only fault here is that she opened some cards way before Vivienne herself did. Second, Viv is extremely unreliable when it comes to her making certain decisions and statements. It's not rare for her to backpedal as if she got a bipolar disorder. Third, there would be shitstorms either way. Shippers are fucking annoying and obsessive for the most part, and it's evident that they're getting even on Vivienne's nerves at times.

As much as I hate Faust, I don't think that telling about trivial details is wrong, unless it's something you should really be silent about until revelation or having an allowance to do so. There are way more important reasons to feel relieved that she left the team.

Shipping is cancerous, sure, but calling any ships that involve Alastor disrespectful because he’s canonically aroace is just dumb and Charlastor is by no means the only one;

Speaking of that. I remember how during one stream, Vivienne and Bosco talked about some ace being really happy to feel represented by Al being ace, then they claimed that if you gotta ship such characters, you gotta ship them with respect, i.e. keeping in mind what characters' sexualities mean to the people of the same sexualities. LOL.

On the topic of Alastor. I would like to mention that Alastor was originally going to have a love interest with a girl demon that owned a flower shop but instead they scarped that idea and make him ace. Which is a shame because a powerful cannibalistic, serial killer demon have a crush on a florist would of been adorable. Or at least in my opinion.

That concept evolved further into him being good mates with Rosie. Anyway, not that I disagree, but I think that him being asexual works to some degree. What I personally don't like the most about that sexuality thing within the show is how they make characters parts of LGBT, when it seems absolutely unnecessary, "best" examples being Husk, Pentious and (maybe) Vox.

 

[The Fair Lady]

Let's not put all the blame on Faust here. I find it really naive to believe that Vivienne would have really kept Alastor's sexuality a secret just to please shippers. First, she gets open about her characters' sexualities soon or later. Faust's only fault here is that she opened some cards way before Vivienne herself did. Second, Viv is extremely unreliable when it comes to her making certain decisions and statements. It's not rare for her to backpedal as if she got a bipolar disorder. Third, there would be shitstorms either way. Shippers are fucking annoying and obsessive for the most part, and it's evident that they're getting even on Vivienne's nerves at times.

As much as I hate Faust, I don't think that telling about trivial details is wrong, unless it's something you should really be silent about until revelation or having an allowance to do so. There are way more important reasons to feel relieved that she left the team.


Speaking of that. I remember how during one stream, Vivienne and Bosco talked about some ace being really happy to feel represented by Al being ace, then they claimed that if you gotta ship such characters, you gotta ship them with respect, i.e. keeping in mind what characters' sexualities mean to the people of the same sexualities. LOL.

Nah that’s conjecture, it’s safe to say Faust is the one at fault this time. Also I never said there wouldn’t be shitstorms either way, that much is obvious. My point is that Faust made things worse when Viv very clearly didn’t want Alastor’s sexuality getting out, at least not at such an early point in Hazbin’s development. When talking about the matter during streams she always sounded hesitant and tried to word things as gently as possible. She’s said time and again that she doesn’t dislike any ships, but the delusional ones that won’t stop bugging her to make Charlastor canon no doubt frustrate her and I don’t think anyone blames her in that regard. All the other details Faust revealed were stupid yet harmless fluff, as I addressed before, but this was a big one she absolutely shat the bed on and should’ve known better not to touch.

And, again, Charlastor has an ironic amount of ace shippers. There are just as many who ship him in general as there are who don’t, so the cries of Alastor ships being “aroace erasure” are pretty lulzy.

 

[AnOminous]

This is the actual Stolas of Ars Goetia fame.

He is fat and I would not have sex with him.

Vivzie's is better.

 

[GaddafyTheLooneyDuck]

Nah that’s conjecture, it’s safe to say Faust is the one at fault this time. Also I never said there wouldn’t be shitstorms either way, that much is obvious. My point is that Faust made things worse when Viv very clearly didn’t want Alastor’s sexuality getting out, at least not at such an early point in Hazbin’s development. When talking about the matter during streams she always sounded hesitant and tried to word things as gently as possible. She’s said time and again that she doesn’t dislike any ships, but the delusional ones that won’t stop bugging her to make Charlastor canon no doubt frustrate her and I don’t think anyone blames her in that regard. All the other details Faust revealed were stupid yet harmless fluff, as I addressed before, but this was a big one she absolutely shat the bed on and should’ve known better not to touch.

That I can agree with. That's outright disrespectful, although I can't say I am surprised about Faust doing something like that.

That said, my point still stands. I am not trying to pick on Vivienne for the sake of it, but again, let's not sugarcoat her here, since, aside from the other shite, she is a really double-faced and untrustworthy person regardless.

And, again, Charlastor has an ironic amount of ace shippers. There are just as many who ship him in general as there are who don’t, so the cries of Alastor ships being “aroace erasure” are pretty lulzy.

Tell it to her, Bosco and the rest. I find what they said to be dog's bollocks, even with my dislike for that and other nonsensical ships into consideration. Like, on what basis it is determined whether the ship is upsetting to someone in regards to their sexuality or not? Yes, there are shippers who treat their ships like holy grails and/or bring up sexuality dilemmas even in their own art, but it still doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

 

[The Fair Lady]

That said, my point still stands. I am not trying to pick on Vivienne for the sake of it, but again, let's not sugarcoat her here, since, aside from the other shite, she is a really double-faced and untrustworthy person regardless.

To clarify, I'm not white-knighting Viv here. She's said and done a bunch of stupid shit, i.e. the recent tweets about Scott Cawthon, but I'm willing to believe her on some things. It's true that there is always the possibility she could backpedal or pull a retcon, but until that time comes, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and hold her to her words.

Tell it to her, Bosco and the rest. I find what they said to be dog's bollocks, even with my dislike for that and other nonsensical ships into consideration. Like, on what basis it is determined whether the ship is upsetting to someone in regards to their sexuality or not? Yes, there are shippers who treat their ships like holy grails and/or bring up sexuality dilemmas even in their own art, but it still doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

They all preach the same old "respect" spiel but it's hard to say how much they actually care about it, honestly. They are at least aware that there are shippers who don't mean any harm, but that still didn't stop Viv from throwing a shitfit over the Charlastor Day thing. Basically, if you get offended over how fictional characters and/or their sexualities are portrayed, it's your own problem and not the content creator's.

 

[Lurkio]

I'm just applying the same standards as shippers would apply to ships they don't like, which is that doing it is literal rape and murder. That said, the people who would like this ship are literally evil, worse than Hitler, and don't deserve the freedom of speech to talk this nonsense.

Shipping is like eating potato chips. You don't really gain much good from it and it's certainly not the best thing for you, but it's fine to have as a bit of a guilty pleasure once in a while. It's when you let it dominate your life is when it becomes a problem. However, if the Internet has taught me one thing it's that people just love to let something they should have "once in a while" consume a good fraction of their life.

But shipping in-and-of itself is harmless, as any content creator with half a spine isn't going to (or at least, shouldn't) let the fan mob influence their creation in any majorly significant way. I mean, including a reference to a popular scene or letting a fan favorite minor character get a bit more screen time is fine, in fact, a little bit of fan service can help the media if done well, but fan opinion shouldn't dictate the major course of the story.

What I'm trying to say here is; Fan Ficiton & shipping, while usually autistic as all get-out, shouldn't be treated as though it affects the author's vision for the story in a meaning full way, nor should it be seen as gay/ace/ whatever erasure. It's dumb fun and should be treated as such, and anyone who treats it as anything more then they should really re-evaluate their priorities.

 

[Racist Trash]

This is the actual Stolas of Ars Goetia fame.
View attachment 2304673
He is fat and I would not have sex with him.

Vivzie's is better.

Do not have sex with the owl

 

[GaddafyTheLooneyDuck]

To clarify, I'm not white-knighting Viv here. She's said and done a bunch of stupid shit, i.e. the recent tweets about Scott Cawthon, but I'm willing to believe her on some things. It's true that there is always the possibility she could backpedal or pull a retcon, but until that time comes, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and hold her to her words.

I don't know, mate.

-"I won't include trans characters".
- *Includes a trans character*

-"I don't want characters or anything to do with the real life events" (or some shite like that)
-*Jeffrey Dahmer has his own cooking show in Hell, Alastor brings up stock market crash suicides from 1929, there is a half-arsed message about global warming, and what-not*

-*Pretends to be oh-so-sweet and caring soul*
-*Is an absolutely arrogant, double-faced, amoral cunt*

That's just to name a few. There is way too much shite to trust her on anything. I would take whatever she says with a fair amount of skepticism.

They are at least aware that there are shippers who don't mean any harm, but that still didn't stop Viv from throwing a shitfit over the Charlastor Day thing.

We have been through this already. I know it's a subjective view, but even with her arrogance and pissiness taken into account, in my opinion it was a honest mistake on her part. I doubt she knew that some shippers were going to organise *wheeze* a day for their precious ship on the same day as her birthday. Knowing how persistent and obsessive charlastor shippers are, I think it's fair to assume that she viewed it as them either attempting to steal the show or bombard her with charlastor art on purpose.

 

[AnOminous]

How the fuck is Alastor's VA this funny with absolutely and even deliberately unfunny jokes? This guy could be funny reading the phone book.

 

[madethistocomment]

How the fuck is Alastor's VA this funny with absolutely and even deliberately unfunny jokes? This guy could be funny reading the phone book.

It's because he's clearly having the time of his fucking life telling them.

 

[The Fair Lady]

I don't know, mate.
-"I won't include trans characters".
- *Includes a trans character*

-"I don't want characters or anything to do with the real life events" (or some shite like that)
-*Jeffrey Dahmer has his own cooking show in Hell, Alastor brings up stock market crash suicides from 1929, there is a half-arsed message about global warming, and what-not*

-*Pretends to be oh-so-sweet and caring soul*
-*Is an absolutely arrogant, double-faced, amoral cunt*

That's just to name a few. There is way too much shite to trust her on anything. I would take whatever she says with a fair amount of skepticism.


We have been through this already. I know it's a subjective view, but even with her arrogance and pissiness taken into account, in my opinion it was a honest mistake on her part. I doubt she knew that some shippers were going to organise *wheeze* a day for their precious ship on the same day as her birthday. Knowing how persistent and obsessive charlastor shippers are, I think it's fair to assume that she viewed it as them either attempting to steal the show or bombard her with charlastor art on purpose.

Look man it's not that big a deal, if you wanna judge all the hypocritical things Viv has ever done and remain critical of her, whatever, that's your business and I frankly don't care. I think everyone in this thread knows she's clowned herself before and probably will again.

"We've been through this already"
Yeah, we have, and I shouldn't have to explain it again. The whole Charlastor Day thing was a mess on both sides, end of story. I only brought it back up because Viv misunderstood something inherently innocent and actually took offense to it, which sure as hell didn't do her any favors.

How the fuck is Alastor's VA this funny with absolutely and even deliberately unfunny jokes? This guy could be funny reading the phone book.

Bosco is smooth like that, he doesn't really have to try when it comes to humor and it's one of the things I appreciate about him.

 

[GaddafyTheLooneyDuck]

Look man it's not that big a deal, if you wanna judge all the hypocritical things Viv has ever done and remain critical of her, whatever, that's your business and I frankly don't care. I think everyone in this thread knows she's clowned herself before and probably will again.

It is a big deal, because if trustworthiness of a person is in question, this is the kind of stuff that perfectly shows that said person in fact is not trustworthy.

Anyway, you're obviously not getting the point, mate. I am not trying to prove you completely wrong and/or take a crap on Vivienne for the sake of it. If you still put trust into her to some degree (at least when it comes to her work), it's all fine and dandy, you do you. All I am trying to say is that knowing Vivzie, it is better to take her statements with a grain of salt, that's it.

"We've been through this already"
Yeah, we have, and I shouldn't have to explain it again. The whole Charlastor Day thing was a mess on both sides, end of story. I only brought it back up because Viv misunderstood something inherently innocent and actually took offense to it, which sure as hell didn't do her any favors.

Can't argue with you here.

 

[The Fair Lady]

It is a big deal, because if trustworthiness of a person is in question, this is the kind of stuff that perfectly shows that said person in fact is not trustworthy.

Anyway, you're obviously not getting the point, mate. I am not trying to prove you completely wrong and/or take a crap on Vivienne for the sake of it. If you still put trust into her to some degree (at least when it comes to her work), it's all fine and dandy, you do you. All I am trying to say is that knowing Vivzie, it is better to take her statements with a grain of salt, that's it.


Can't argue with you here.

Dude, it’s not a big deal to me, nor should it be to anyone else reading this thread. We’re here to discuss the show and laugh if Viv does something stupid. I obviously don’t know her personally and couldn’t care less about her wrongdoings or how much of a hypocrite she is. You don’t trust Viv as far as you can throw her, we get it. You need to understand not everyone is going to agree with how you see it though.

And my point is that you’re trying to lecture me on something I’m already well aware of. I think we’ve exhausted all there is to say about it.

 

[AnOminous]

I think everyone in this thread knows she's clowned herself before and probably will again.

I don't even care, I like Vivz for whatever reason, even if she probably hates people like me.

 

[GaddafyTheLooneyDuck]

Dude, it’s not a big deal to me, nor should it be to anyone else reading this thread. We’re here to discuss the show and laugh if Viv does something stupid. I obviously don’t know her personally and couldn’t care less about her wrongdoings or how much of a hypocrite she is. You don’t trust Viv as far as you can throw her, we get it.

I phrased myself bady. By a "big deal" I didn't mean it as something that people in this thread should care about 24/7, I meant that as something important to keep in mind when it comes to putting trust in her. No more, no less.

Going back a bit, I listed those as mere examples to explain why I wouldn't do so, not to judge Viv for the sake of it. Pretty sure that wasn't hard to get, but okay.

You need to understand not everyone is going to agree with how you see it though.

Likewise, that can work both ways. And never I said or implied that anyone needs to agree with anything I say. Where did that impression even come from? Besides, sure, I can be a persistent bastard, but I made it clear that even though I openly disagree with you, changing your mind or proving you wrong wasn't my intention.

And my point is that you’re trying to lecture me on something I’m already well aware of. I think we’ve exhausted all there is to say about it.

Wasn't lecturing, just saying, but yeah, got kinda smart-arsy.


Anyway, chill out, none of my posts were worthy getting salty and passive-aggressive over.

 

[AnOminous]

I phrased myself bady. By a "big deal" I didn't mean it as something that people in this thread should care about 24/7, I meant that as something important to keep in mind when it comes to putting trust in her. No more, no less.

I don't need to "trust" her in any real sense, other than to come up with fucked-up content that I like, and she seems pretty good at that. Like what would she do to betray me, talk some shit about goobergrape? So what? I don't care.

I really don't care about her opinions on anything unless the HB/HH somehow turn into shit because of retarded politics being inserted. I actually probably agree with her politics more than the politics of most people here to tell the truth.

 

[Leafy is Here]

Welp. Just gonna drop my speedwatcher opinions on Helluva Boss because I like complaining.

Spoiler: complaining

My major gripe with HB (same with Hazbin Hotel) is the writing leaves a lot of loose ends that the show doesn't address.
If I need to consult the show's comics, the QnA streams, the creators Twitters, the official Reddit, give into the "because hell", or make up my own schizo headcanon theories to
support the shows story... Well, then the shows not doing a very good job telling it's story.

Just look at the TVTropes Headscratcher section for Helluva Boss (I know, I know, TVtropes lul but bear with me). There are some questions that bewilder even the fans.
Stuff like what decides sinner's demon forms? How do characters in HB know what happens after they die? Why don't humans in HB give a single fuck about demons/angels inhabiting their world?
That sort of stuff just remains "out there" and never gets answered unless the show decides to retcon later.

And theres nothing wrong with retconning. and I get that mystery gives the audience something to chew on. But sometimes it just feels lazy. And relying on excessive amounts of interpretative lorefaggotry can be bad. Because it becomes about what a show COULD be rather than what it actually is, and this has been known to set people up for warped expectations.

Wasn't a fan of the humor either. Not because of the offensiveness. But because most of it really doesnt land.
It's either in your face sex jokes (since there really is no consequence for sex in the afterlife, at least among sinners, why care?)
in your face murder jokes (which don't hold any weight since nobody really "dies" in this universe, they just get isekai'd into hell/heaven where they're free to be their old crappy selves)
and when the show finally gets around to jokes about morality, the takeaway is usually "wealthy people bad, bad people wealthy"
which has been the case in a lot of episodes in HB so far. (the cheating woman, the disney land spoof, the succubus, the old dude, hell I'd even argue the owl couple and their dying marriage count too).

tl;dr: couldnt into furry show lul

 

[Whoever]

It's incredible to me that this show has such a massive fandom and so much drama with just a pilot episode and that that fandom is on kiwifarms.

 

[Bec]

It's incredible to me that this show has such a massive fandom and so much drama with just a pilot episode and that that fandom is on kiwifarms.

To be fair helluva boss has had five episodes and she's also made music videos since then which helps the whole "vivzieverse" stay relevant.