Philosophy Tube / Oliver Lennard / Oliver "Olly" Thorn / Abigail Thorn - Breadtube's Patrick Bateman.

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Re: Social constructs and shit, it sounds likes he's wandering into anthropology or sociology territory, not philosophy (haven't watched the vid.) There's overlap, but the concept and properties of "coolness" is something that I don't think actual academic philosophy would really touch on. Just to make PT mad, one could argue that his conflation of "coolness" with sex/race is also problematic because women weren't historically oppressed because some dude decided they weren't "cool enough" or whatever. The stakes are a little higher and the historical reasons for existing as even as social concepts are rooted in entirely different things, but what do I know.

His core argument seemed to be, as much as I can decipher it, that society assigns arbitrary values - social properties - onto immutable intrinsic natular characteristics - like sex, race, and sexual orientation. One parallel he used was fucking baseball, of all things: the "baller" (oh ho such a silly anglo bimbo I am) throws the ball, the ball has a trajectory which is an intrinsic, physical property, and then the umpire decides whether that trajectory falls into the strike zone, which is a social property. Similarly society observes those immutable intrinsic natural properties and assigns various values to them, which means gender, sex, sexual orientation, and race are actually purely social constructs!
This was his "Earth -1/0/1/2" "allegory": Earth -1 has no concepts of measurement at all, they're just "vibing" like "dude weed lmao". Earth 0 has concepts of measurements but doesn't use them in social structuring. Earth 1 is our universe, and Earth 2 has its "schmite" where people people are divided by height: above 5 feet is ubermensch, below 5 feet is untermensch. I suspect this is an extremely reductionist and retarded version of the already fucking retarded concept of "privilege". He's either oversimplifying things and is using garbage social science or is arguing completely dishonestly and disingenuously. It's a very woke-ish "cis het white males are treated as gods and even the lowliest homeless war vet is infinitely more privileged than Oprah Winfrey" argument.

The coolness thing was also a parallel to platypuses of all things, because scientists allegedly decided platypuses were mammals the same bullshit way people decide something is cool.

Drinking and not going into this whole thing with an open mind doesn't help, I reckon, but I can't stand this incredibly intellectual CURRENT YEAR wokeish wankfest that somehow manages to ignore there's a whole world outside the "civilized West".

 

[Itterasshai]

PT compares race and sex, but those are only similar in the social weight people assign to them. Race and sex have as much in common as sex and age or race and orientation do.

Besides, PT is English; why not talk about ethnicity? Surely, ethnic divisions are more relevant in Britain, just as they are in most countries. Moreover, it is an even better example of a difference that exists mostly in people’s minds: Slavs keep killing each other despite being genetically, and oftentimes even linguistically, barely distinguishable.

As per usual, PT insinuates that opposition to the transgender rights movements only exists because some hate transgenders due to disgust or whatnot; as if there are no anti-trans people who used to be pro-trans and changed their minds.

 

[UVB-76]

the ball has a trajectory which is an intrinsic, physical property, and then the umpire decides whether that trajectory falls into the strike zone, which is a social property. Similarly society observes those immutable intrinsic natural properties and assigns various values to them, which means gender, sex, sexual orientation, and race are actually purely social constructs!

The strike zone is a defined volume in physical space with its own coordinates that depend on the observer's inertial frame of reference. While the umpire's decision might involve a subjective observation of the trajectory rather than objective measurement through sensors, that is still an intrinsic physical property that is being measured. Not a social property.
What he meant to say is that the rules of the game are constructed, but I guess he got his MA in philosophy and it doesn't translate to physics very well.

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

The strike zone is a defined volume in physical space with its own coordinates that depend on the observer's inertial frame of reference. While the umpire's decision might involve a subjective observation of the trajectory rather than objective measurement through sensors, that is still an intrinsic physical property that is being measured. Not a social property.
What he meant to say is that the rules of the game are constructed, but I guess he got his MA in philosophy and it doesn't translate to physics very well.

I don't think his MA in philosophy translates well to, well, anything. That argument is some shining example of PoMo bullshit - I suspect he meant it as "since the strike zone is arbitrarily designated it could be literally anywhere else" and either fails to understand or tries to skillfully obfuscate the very very simple fact there was a reason and a clear goal to designate it in that exact place with those exact dimensions. Like I said, he's either a retard or a liar and possibly both.

 

[Clem Fandango]

the ball has a trajectory which is an intrinsic, physical property, and then the umpire decides whether that trajectory falls into the strike zone, which is a social property.

Garbage argument.

It's a goal if the ball crosses the goal line in football, and in the modern game they use goal line technology (cameras, sensors) to determine this.

You see, goals in football are observed, not assigned. A bit like a person's physical sex.

 

[AntiStan23]

the way abighoul bares her teeth the whole time in this video gives me creepy chills on my back. I think she’s a psycho.
The music and aesthetics of the video also give me major butch vibes. Why is she constantly leaning into her manliness? Does she really hope/believe that she‘ll break as a serious actress some day? Who will cast her in any other than trans roles? Or is that narrative just a distraction from her grifting?

 

[narcissistic injury]

I can't help but notice this thread is filled with dumb mistakes (usually timeline related) so I put together this wonderful timeline (under spoiler) that goes into the actual timeframes of events and tries to debunk some misconceptions when it comes to Oliver's transition as well as the relationship between Nyk and Oliver.
Maybe it's my autism talking but I hate shit research even more than I hate trannies so I frankly don't give a shit if what I'm about to say makes these AGPs seem less terrible, at least I'm not lying to myself about the facts.
Also there's some lovely speculation peppered in for your entertainment since the post is already way too long.

PS: If you're wondering why I know so much abt trans healthcare in the UK it's cuz I used to be a TIM (*gasp*) going through transition in the UK. Don't ask me abt it, it was a shit emo phase.

So here's my lovely little triple checked Timeline:

Spoiler: Timeline

Late 2018 - late 2019: Oliver and Nyk are dating. [this has been confirmed over and over again in this thread]

October 2019: The "Queer" video comes out.
I'm gonna throw a curveball at y'all but I speculate that he identified as nonbinary at this point (whether Nyk or anyone else knew abt this is debatable). I do not have any credible sources just a bit of suspect subtext so take this with a rock of salt.
My main point is that if he accessed transition through the NHS [which is likely due to how much he talks about waiting times in his manifesto] he would've had to apply for gender therapy and enter a waiting list, and since those are sometimes years long, this is probably the most recent he could possibly have entered the system for him to be able to get HRT at the time he did. There's also a chance he could've done this while dating Nyk but my point is, if he went through the NHS, this is the latest he could've possibly applied.
Also, in order to change your gender marker [which he flaunts ever so subtly in his coming out video] in the UK you need to present 2 years of proof that you're the gender you say you are so I don't think it's a totally insane idea that he would enter the system at this time (although yes you can get "proof" in other ways).
Also fucking watch the video and tell me that's not a closeted tranny, I dare you.

Jan 2020: Nyk uploads "Cancelling" where he mentions that a prominent leftist figure raped him.
[The fact that this wasn't just sexual harassment but a full-on rape is later confirmed in the "J.K. Rowling" video.]
He talks about this in a very nonchalant way, as if he already made peace with this fact, it's likely that this happened quite a while back. At this time Nyk and Oliver were still good friends, regularly interacting through twitter etc.

Feb 2020: Nyk uploads "Shame" under which Oliver comments, revealing himself as "Chad" [this comment was later deleted]. This comment is hearted by Nyk, therefore it's very unlikely that the person who raped Nyk was Oliver.
After this Oliver has a mental breakdown, some speculate this is the moment his egg cracked but I am sceptical because of the aforementioned NHS waiting lists. I do think that it's possible that if he ID'd as nonbinary before this point, this was the moment where he went full-on tranny. This would also fit his claim that he started writing the script to the coming out video around a year before it came out.

April 2020: Oliver uploads his last video with a beard.

June 2020: Oliver uploads his first video without a beard under the guise of "scaring off the nazis".
In reality it was probably because he recently finally accessed gender therapy and knew if he didn't shave no one would take him seriously as a tran. We can't know for sure when he shaved, so it's just as possible that he started therapy right after filming the video in early April (and spent some time coming up with ways of excusing his missing facial hair in the next vid) or right after the June one.

June - August 2020: Oliver uploads multiple videos at this time during which we can pretty clearly see his features change ever so slightly. Notice how in "Logic" he still wears a tight-fitting shirt but after that he only wears big jackets to hide his skittle tits [he actually confirmed hiding his E tits in his coming out statement]. It is my belief that he started HRT somewhere in this timeframe and was definitely 100% on Estrogen by the time the "Confucius" video was uploaded.
Idk who spread the misinformation that he started HRT in Jan/Feb 2020 [he never said that lmao he only said that's when he started writing the script] but that shit makes no sense considering everything. Especially if you think that the Feb 2020 breakdown was his egg cracking, there's no way on earth or hell that he could access HRT that fucking quickly, even if he went private that's not how this works. Even if Feb 2020 indeed was the month he got transed getting HRT would not happen for months, which again brings us to this timeframe.

26th January 2021: Nyk uploads the "J.K.Rowling" video. From what I can gather Nyk and Oliver were still friends at this time.
This is the only video Nyk uploaded in the first half of 2021. At the time of writing it's his only 2021 video. After this he goes on the longest hiatus he has ever taken, and we probably know why.

30th January 2021: Oliver publicly comes out as a tranny.
I wanted to speculate on when he got his name and gender marker changed based on his tweets about making the video but it seems he has deleted all his tweets and replies from before June 4th so i cannot get the specific dates.
What we do know however is that by the point the video was being filmed he had been on HRT for at least a few months, changed his legal name and gender marker and had zero surgeries.
We also know that before the video was uploaded he still had an okay relationship with Nyk, good enough that he quoted him in his coming out video. A lot of people are saying this was intended to hurt Nyk but considering the fact that shit seemed to go down only AFTER this video was uploaded, I doubt it.

March 8th 2021: Nyk gets an ask about Oliver's coming out and says "I am not in that person's life anymore. I had an inkling but I don't particularly want to speak about it."
He says it like it's an open wound. Very different compared to the way he, for example, talks about his own rape.
Now this one is interesting for multiple reasons. First, we can tell that Nyk didn't know Oliver was trans, that's pretty obvious. Second, notice that the wording is "I am not in THIS PERSON's life", not "This person is not in my life anymore". He doesn't even acknowledge Oliver's new name on his own, he struggles to even say it out loud when reading the question.
Now I know y'all love to paint Oliver as this big narcissist supervillain (tbh i just think that's giving him too much credit, he's a soyboy with a big ego at best) so I get that what I'm gonna say will be controversial but...I think Oliver might've been the one to end things with Nyk.

At this point it's only speculation but what I think happened was pretty much:
O: Hey Nat! Look I'm a tran! My name is Abigail now! I paid an homage to you in my coming out statement!
N (high on opioids): ...Olly I don't know what the fuck happened but you're not trans. I know you! You're a guy through and through! When we met you were an absolute Chad! Please stop this man you're embarrassing yourself, the pandemic just got you all messed up.
O:...fuck off??

March 25th 2021: Philosophytube Kiwifarms thread is created.
I feel like this gives us the most info on why shit got so confusing. Y'all didn't collect info gradually, you just went off and compiled shit together so obviously it seems like they've had a falling out a longass time ago. I just think it's stupid trying to make it seem like y'all know everything behind these peoples facades while not even thinking abt some of the shit you put out here. Take this as a learning moment, triple check your claims!!! Also yea feel free to add onto this as you please, I'm really interested in y'all's takes.

I really enjoyed reading thru this thread, I just really think a lot of what you guys are saying is a lot more dramatic than the real lives of these AGP's. They're about as tasteful as a bag of concrete.

long time lurker

just made an account to say:

Nice try, Olly

 

[esmeggs]

Some of the captions from the end of the video:
-"Plus the downside of the location is that it's a NIGHTMARE to light. That shot inside the car? Whew, that was difficult. I mean the lighting on that shot is still not quite where I'd have liked it to be but it's so difficult to do when your costume, background, and actress are all pale and in a confined space. It's not like you can throw a key light above my face cause there's a roof there. Plus we were up against the clock, losing the light and running down the car battery by keeping the door open."

I don't blame him for trying to put in a disclaimer about how he looked during this part of the video. The car is really cramped so he's hunched over and he looks HUGE. I think this could've been salvaged if he had better posture or didn't keep his right arm in his lap.​

Also he's an actress, in case you somehow forgot.​

-"Also, how good are the outfits? Brian really outdid himself. Perfect balance between fun and sexy but not too much."

I'm going to read too much into this and say that Olly doesn't want to take credit for the outfits from this video, he wants everyone to know that it was his stylist's choice. Thanks for answering my question on this Olly ​

-And of course Olly needs to bring up his acting career, ending with this: "Thanks for waiting for this episode while I was in Romania filming Django btw, I appreciate it!"

ETA:

 

[narcissistic injury]

Some of the captions from the end of the video:
-"Plus the downside of the location is that it's a NIGHTMARE to light. That shot inside the car? Whew, that was difficult. I mean the lighting on that shot is still not quite where I'd have liked it to be but it's so difficult to do when your costume, background, and actress are all pale and in a confined space. It's not like you can throw a key light above my face cause there's a roof there. Plus we were up against the clock, losing the light and running down the car battery by keeping the door open."

I don't blame him for trying to put in a disclaimer about how he looked during this part of the video. The car is really cramped so he's hunched over and he looks HUGE. I think this could've been salvaged if he had better posture or didn't keep his right arm in his lap.​

Also he's an actress, in case you somehow forgot.​

View attachment 2331596

-"Also, how good are the outfits? Brian really outdid himself. Perfect balance between fun and sexy but not too much."

I'm going to read too much into this and say that Olly doesn't want to take credit for the outfits from this video, he wants everyone to know that it was his stylist's choice. Thanks for answering my question on this Olly ​

-And of course Olly needs to bring up his acting career, ending with this: "Thanks for waiting for this episode while I was in Romania filming Django btw, I appreciate it!"

ETA:
View attachment 2331625
View attachment 2331622

wtf is that necklace ahahhahahah

i will give credit - PT has developed a decent feminine voice. everything else = nada

 

[Tombigbee]

wtf is that necklace ahahhahahah

i will give credit - PT has developed a decent feminine voice. everything else = nada

I was going to mention his voice too. It did sound different. I wouldn’t say better. And maybe he uses some kind of software or something to feminize it in his videos. It certainly wasn’t feminine in his Pride speech: “THERE. IS. POWAAHH IN THIS!!!” And that speech was a scant few days before this was filmed.

I only watched a couple mins though. It’s funny because the other day I listened/watched a 3 hour Contra livestream lol. But in all sincerity I don’t think I’ve ever finished ANY Olly videos. He’s just so boring.

 

[LizCurly89]

Some of the captions from the end of the video:
-"Plus the downside of the location is that it's a NIGHTMARE to light. That shot inside the car? Whew, that was difficult. I mean the lighting on that shot is still not quite where I'd have liked it to be but it's so difficult to do when your costume, background, and actress are all pale and in a confined space. It's not like you can throw a key light above my face cause there's a roof there. Plus we were up against the clock, losing the light and running down the car battery by keeping the door open."

I don't blame him for trying to put in a disclaimer about how he looked during this part of the video. The car is really cramped so he's hunched over and he looks HUGE. I think this could've been salvaged if he had better posture or didn't keep his right arm in his lap.​

Also he's an actress, in case you somehow forgot.​

View attachment 2331596

-"Also, how good are the outfits? Brian really outdid himself. Perfect balance between fun and sexy but not too much."

I'm going to read too much into this and say that Olly doesn't want to take credit for the outfits from this video, he wants everyone to know that it was his stylist's choice. Thanks for answering my question on this Olly ​

-And of course Olly needs to bring up his acting career, ending with this: "Thanks for waiting for this episode while I was in Romania filming Django btw, I appreciate it!"

ETA:
View attachment 2331625
View attachment 2331622

Lmfao "female."

He wishes.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Some of the captions from the end of the video:
-"Plus the downside of the location is that it's a NIGHTMARE to light. That shot inside the car? Whew, that was difficult. I mean the lighting on that shot is still not quite where I'd have liked it to be but it's so difficult to do when your costume, background, and actress are all pale and in a confined space. It's not like you can throw a key light above my face cause there's a roof there. Plus we were up against the clock, losing the light and running down the car battery by keeping the door open."

I don't blame him for trying to put in a disclaimer about how he looked during this part of the video. The car is really cramped so he's hunched over and he looks HUGE. I think this could've been salvaged if he had better posture or didn't keep his right arm in his lap.​

Also he's an actress, in case you somehow forgot.​

View attachment 2331596

-"Also, how good are the outfits? Brian really outdid himself. Perfect balance between fun and sexy but not too much."

I'm going to read too much into this and say that Olly doesn't want to take credit for the outfits from this video, he wants everyone to know that it was his stylist's choice. Thanks for answering my question on this Olly ​

-And of course Olly needs to bring up his acting career, ending with this: "Thanks for waiting for this episode while I was in Romania filming Django btw, I appreciate it!"

ETA:
View attachment 2331625
View attachment 2331622

He might want to focus on the shit philosophy in his videos rather than worrying about things like location, costume and lighting,

 

[YachieKicchou]

Why is their mouth..like that. Like it's sideways. Mouths aren't supposed to look like that.

 

[Marche]

ETA:

He just keeps bahving like Emily howard with the "I'M A LADY" bit.
Yes teehee I am a lady, I do lady things like being a lady.

 

[NormieCasual]

Ship of Theseus argument, comparing replacing car parts as a troon analogy. I've heard it before, possibly from PT himself

That sounds a bit dehumanizing. Like, cutting off your tits is just like buying a new cooling system, or inverting your dick is just getting a new engine, comes off like very unhuman. Also, it's almost making light of what is serious operations that can go wrong (and in some cases often do).

Also, just because something is a social construction doesn't mean that it's bad and need to change.

 

[LizCurly89]

View attachment 2332634

Why do I find him so horrifying?

It must be because he's so hecking cute and valid!


.UwU.

 

[UVB-76]

Plus we were up against the clock, losing the light and running down the car battery by keeping the door open."

Not sure how it goes with these old cars, but couldn't they get an actual mechanic to just unplug the battery?

 

[Boris Blank's glass eye]

Not sure how it goes with these old cars, but couldn't they get an actual mechanic to just unplug the battery?

They could have just rolled down the window instead of opening the door. I don't think it would have made much of a difference in the POV. Besides, unplugging the battery in most of these old cars is easy - Olly probably liked the "sexy mechanic" look but sure as fuck wouldn't know what to do with an open bonnet.

 

[fistfulloffeathers]

Additional thoughts:

PT insinuates that opposition to the transgender rights movements only exists because some hate transgenders due to disgust or whatnot; as if there are no anti-trans people who used to be pro-trans and changed their minds.

Most gender crits, radfems, terfs and anti-trans poeple ive seen used to be gender ideologists and troons. Most woke up, epsically the women who were sick of being called cis, or told how to be a woman by a cock weilding hairy troon like oliver

Not sure how it goes with these old cars, but couldn't they get an actual mechanic to just unplug the battery?

My car isnt old per se but ive left the door open, even the lights on for ages and it doesnt affect the battery. My old 1996 corsa, I always had the door open when not driving ( no air con is a bitch) and never had a dead battery

 

[AssignedEva]

He tries to say that a world in which we divide humans based on height would be an obvious social construct, therefore biological sex must be a social construct. So being a mother is an invented social construct, basically. Hurray for false analogies.

The thing is, the concept of "motherhood" is a social construct. The understanding of what a mother does, separate from the objective biological reality of a woman giving birth to a baby, varies across time and culture.

What Ollie and a lot of people seem to fail to answer is "...so what?". The concept of chairs or the colour blue are arbitrary social constructions, we've named a set of constructed objects "chairs" and a set of wavelengths to be "blue". Not every culture has what we'd recognise as chairs and some cultures don't have a concept of blue - hence Homer's "wine dark sea" or how Russian doesn't have a word for blue but has голубой (originally "pigeon coloured"; what we'd call light blue) and синий (originally "like the darkness of December nights"; what we'd call dark blue).

However we still know a blue chair when we see one. Just because something is a social construct doesn't mean it's invalid or completely subjective and naming something as such is not a complete argument.

Some of the captions from the end of the video:
-"Plus the downside of the location is that it's a NIGHTMARE to light. That shot inside the car? Whew, that was difficult. I mean the lighting on that shot is still not quite where I'd have liked it to be but it's so difficult to do when your costume, background, and actress are all pale and in a confined space. It's not like you can throw a key light above my face cause there's a roof there. Plus we were up against the clock, losing the light and running down the car battery by keeping the door open."

I don't blame him for trying to put in a disclaimer about how he looked during this part of the video. The car is really cramped so he's hunched over and he looks HUGE. I think this could've been salvaged if he had better posture or didn't keep his right arm in his lap.​

Also he's an actress, in case you somehow forgot.​

View attachment 2331596

-"Also, how good are the outfits? Brian really outdid himself. Perfect balance between fun and sexy but not too much."

I'm going to read too much into this and say that Olly doesn't want to take credit for the outfits from this video, he wants everyone to know that it was his stylist's choice. Thanks for answering my question on this Olly ​

-And of course Olly needs to bring up his acting career, ending with this: "Thanks for waiting for this episode while I was in Romania filming Django btw, I appreciate it!"

ETA:
View attachment 2331625
View attachment 2331622

Oh what the fuck is the third outfit. That looks like it literally is a safari suit. THIS is the outfit you'd pair the fingerless driving gloves with, as you're attempting "fancy lady driving a car", not the mechanic outfit. Opera gloves are not worn with such a relaxed outfit, they are incredibly formal; this is equivalent to pairing a top hat with business casual.

I wouldn't normally give anyone shit about such minor missteps but Ollie thinks he's serving iconic lewks so deserves to get nit-picked. And yes that green monstrosity is something your crazy Aunt would pick out in a bargain bin to serve as a "statement necklace". The top is cute, though.