Jaron Seth Bloshinsky / Jazz Jennings / I Am Jazz - Puberty Blockers: Not Even Once

[Scrumption]

I'm actually about halfway through a thesis about the berdache/"two-spirit" among Native American cultures and it's interesting what it was and what it wasn't.

To add to that:

Two-spirit is, as you said, a recent term. The term itself, as well as its predecessor "berdache" are umbrella terms for ease of communication. Tribes that had roles that fit under the term "two-spirit" are not the same as each other. In other words, a tribe may have a role for a man that lives as a woman, marries men, and plays a spiritual role, whereas another tribe may have a role for a cross-dresser. Despite the differences between these roles they would both be considered two-spirit.

All indigenous tribes had their own cultures even though some of them have been homogenized in recent times (due to assimilation, loss of tribal knowledge, etc.). So as a result, there also were tribes that were hostile towards two-spirit type roles.

You may find that some two-spirit activists insist that pre-Columbian America was a Utopia of gender-nonconforming tolerance, but that simply is not true.

Another thing I'd like to add is that frequency of two-spirit roles differed based on tribe, so while X tribe might have had 1/100 people being a two-spirit, Y tribe had 1/500 people being two-spirit.

There are still a ton of misconceptions in the alphabet community about what two-spirit is and what it isn't.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Sometimes -or rather often- the most obvious and simplest answer is the correct one.

Jazz was a little boy who liked girly stuff. Jeanette, like many mothers whose kids experience similar behaviours, consults an expert. This expert, as sadly many others do, couldn't wait to tests her own theories on this kid and instead of doing what most psychiatrists would do (telling the parent it's just a phase), projected all the trans theory she learned on Jazz. Jeanette, being ignorant on the subject, accepted everything the expert told her to be true. We know the rest.

You know why this is more likely what actually happened? Because it's exactly what happened to David Reimer, being the only difference that he had already lost his penis.

 

[Florence Sargent]

You know why this is more likely what actually happened? Because it's exactly what happened to David Reimer, being the only difference that he had already lost his penis.

David shot his shot at 38. If Jazz makes it that long it'll be a transfats miracle.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

David shot his shot at 38. If Jazz makes it that long it'll be a transfats miracle.

He was also younger than Jazz when he learned the truth. He tried to live a normal life for more than 20 years before he killed himself.

Jazz is still in denial with no way to get out of it because everybody around him is on it too. It's gonna make it harder for when he finally snaps out of the lies.

 

[KooksandFreaks]

It's not that their sex would be up for dispute (male people with birth defects, even sex related ones, are still male), but it'd give more legitimacy to the idea that some cases of gender dysphoria are more intractable, perhaps justifying more drastic treatments than if it were solely caused by psychological problems. (Not that I personally think that, but it at least raises the question.)

Of course while troons initially jumped on the "neurologically trans" concept, many quickly backed off from it. See, if we start developing better diagnostic criteria, especially involving hard evidence like brain scans, it might turn out that most of them are merely fetishists. (what we on KF already know to be the case)

Genuine cases of gender dysphoria? Aren’t they very rare?

Whether the cause is nature, nurture or a combination of both, I tend toward the school of thought that says anyone suffering from severe body dysmorphia should be helped to accept themselves as they are and learn to live in their own skin. After all, we don’t put anorexics on a diet or amputate the healthy limbs of apotemnophiliacs.

Truthfully, it’s a question I’m still ambivalent about. On the one hand, I think adults should be able to whatever they want with their own bodies. On the other, I believe it is the duty of doctors and therapists to actually treat mental health issues in their patients rather than encourage or enable disengagement from reality.

Maybe that’s the crux of the trans rights question right now. To what degree is society-at-large expected to humor men who insist that they are, in fact, women who just happen to have penises?

 

[Coffee Druid]

To add to that:

Two-spirit is, as you said, a recent term. The term itself, as well as its predecessor "berdache" are umbrella terms for ease of communication. Tribes that had roles that fit under the term "two-spirit" are not the same as each other. In other words, a tribe may have a role for a man that lives as a woman, marries men, and plays a spiritual role, whereas another tribe may have a role for a cross-dresser. Despite the differences between these roles they would both be considered two-spirit.

All indigenous tribes had their own cultures even though some of them have been homogenized in recent times (due to assimilation, loss of tribal knowledge, etc.). So as a result, there also were tribes that were hostile towards two-spirit type roles.

You may find that some two-spirit activists insist that pre-Columbian America was a Utopia of gender-nonconforming tolerance, but that simply is not true.

Another thing I'd like to add is that frequency of two-spirit roles differed based on tribe, so while X tribe might have had 1/100 people being a two-spirit, Y tribe had 1/500 people being two-spirit.

There are still a ton of misconceptions in the alphabet community about what two-spirit is what it isn't.

That's a fascinating topic. I wouldn't mind researching the actual historicity, preferably not influenced by modern woke standards. But, I'm assuming "two spirit" type stuff only really applied to men taking on feminine roles? I suppose if a tribe's male roles were physical (like hunting), then maybe it would be harder for a woman to be accepted as gender-bending. But that's just me wondering.

 

[Box of Shame]

"Marcia Schultz" is IRL Marilyn Volker of the hat-wearing, who diagnosed Jazz (I didn't know an Ed.D could diagnose, but anyway), was apparently one of Debbie's sexology professors, and later sat on Debbie's dissertation committee. You can see her signature on the PFD. She appears in the Jazz documentaries/interviews and on the show (as does Cousin Debbie re: the show, albeit rarely).

Debbie recounts hanging out a lot with "the cousins" and counseling Jeanette as to what steps to take (including seeing this "doctor," to whom she had no doubt referred her). I wish everyone pooh-poohing Debbie's role in this would just read the damn thing for themselves...

Ahhhhh. I see. I am a big dummy. I knew Jeanette's and Jazz's names were fake but assumed the doctor's name would not have been changed.

 

[T.E.R.F]

Sometimes -or rather often- the most obvious and simplest answer is the correct one.

Jazz was a little boy who liked girly stuff. Jeanette, like many mothers whose kids experience similar behaviours, consults an expert. This expert, as sadly many others do, couldn't wait to tests her own theories on this kid and instead of doing what most psychiatrists would do (telling the parent it's just a phase), projected all the trans theory she learned on Jazz. Jeanette, being ignorant on the subject, accepted everything the expert told her to be true. We know the rest.

You know why this is more likely what actually happened? Because it's exactly what happened to David Reimer, being the only difference that he had already lost his penis.

Many of those same mothers never would have created a Jazz just because an expert told them to -- especially when it was unheard of unlike now. And we can't assume that Jeanette didn't talk to actual experts telling her other ideas (not that I believe Jazz had a problem in the first place). Jeanette is insane but she's not a stupid woman or necessarily that impressionable. At the end of the day, Jeanette wanted an extra special kid and has spent majority of his life parading him in the media (with her as closely involved as possible). Maybe there were some predatory experts involved, but Jeanette went to such unheard of extremes at the time that it can only be an autonomous decision.

If she hadn't taken the trannypill, who knows how else the attention seeking would have manifested. But she must have cracked somewhere because she raised 2 other successful kids (and I think Sander will get his shit together). Or maybe she is just old school Jewish and was really repulsed by an effeminate son.

Edit that of course the pathetic husband deserves all the credit/blame as well but he's just so uninvolved and bland that I forget about him

 

[KiwiFuzz]

That's a fascinating topic. I wouldn't mind researching the actual historicity, preferably not influenced by modern woke standards. But, I'm assuming "two spirit" type stuff only really applied to men taking on feminine roles? I suppose if a tribe's male roles were physical (like hunting), then maybe it would be harder for a woman to be accepted as gender-bending. But that's just me wondering.

Unfortunately, Native cultures had already been disrupted by the time white people were like "We need to write some of this shit down," and in the early days of anthropology when there were still a lot of um... un-Westernized... Natives around, the idea that a person would go into a strange group of people and say "Tell me about your faggots" was not done. And of course once Native people got Catholicized, there were issues like people insisting that Natives NEVER would have done such a thing as even get divorced or have abortions, much less same-sex marriage.

It seems like the original literature is scant, the anthropologists had trouble seeing the "two spirits" as anything other than degenerates, there are questions that anthropologists would ask now about gender that people didn't have the language for back then, and people from indigenous cultures are inclined to give themselves the winner's edit.

And as far as women doing men's tasks, a question that I have in response to what you said is whether there was any proscription on non-two-spirit women fucking off and going hunting for the morning, versus a man saying that he was just going to chill and grind acorns today. I don't have an answer for that.

 

[Coffee Druid]

Unfortunately, Native cultures had already been disrupted by the time white people were like "We need to write some of this shit down," and in the early days of anthropology when there were still a lot of um... un-Westernized... Natives around, the idea that a person would go into a strange group of people and say "Tell me about your faggots" was not done. And of course once Native people got Catholicized, there were issues like people insisting that Natives NEVER would have done such a thing as even get divorced or have abortions, much less same-sex marriage.

It seems like the original literature is scant, the anthropologists had trouble seeing the "two spirits" as anything other than degenerates, there are questions that anthropologists would ask now about gender that people didn't have the language for back then, and people from indigenous cultures are inclined to give themselves the winner's edit.

And as far as women doing men's tasks, a question that I have in response to what you said is whether there was any proscription on non-two-spirit women fucking off and going hunting for the morning, versus a man saying that he was just going to chill and grind acorns today. I don't have an answer for that.

That first point is what makes me not take people seriously when they claim to be two spirit. It's like people claiming to follow "the old ways" with pagan spirituality or something. It makes for interesting discussion but at the same time it's most likely not historically accurate.

But we also live in a world where, while you may still get teased about it or come across the occasional insult, you can do whatever gender role you want. At least in western countries. There's no need to transcend gender roles when it's just normal. I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at here exactly. But I find "two spirits" or the similar concept in middle eastern countries (forgot the name) to be stuck in rigid gender roles, not very "progressive".

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Many of those same mothers never would have created a Jazz just because an expert told them to --

You really think so? Then why there are so many mothers who are so willing to pimp their children to whatever new trend they can find? There are so many examples of mothers who take their children to talent shows, beauty pageants or who were told their kids had something special, like being "indigo".

Sadly, there are so many women who use their own children to live the lives they never could, It's not new. Jeanette only found a new way to exploit a kid thinking they're actually helping them.

 

[all4mom2]

Jeanette was convinced first by Debbie, later confirmed by Marilyn, that her precious little boy would eventually kill himself if not allowed to "be a girl." I don't know too many sane mothers who, believing this, would do otherwise. It's true that this narrative later filled needs in Jeanette that weren't unselfish -- for notoriety, attention, fame, admiration, importance -- which blocked Jazz's chances to later change his mind, but I have no reason to believe she wasn't INITIALLY well-intentioned, but simply mystified, misled, and misinformed. Seems some are more invested in damning Jeanette than learning the true history.

 

[SR-72]

They never shut up about the brain scans they did on transwomen that totally prove that they have brains similar to actual women. Of course they ignore the studies that show the opposite (there have been a few.) And of course they also kick and scream whenever you point out that people with autism are more likely to transition.

Troons heckin' love a science as long as it suits them. Otherwise it can go away.

From what I've seen in studies, trans men, even pre hormones have white/grey matter ratio drastically different from women on average and much closer to the average man, but sex differences in the brain of trans women aren't like that, and their brains aren't much different from men at all. I think I saw something about there being certain differences in a trans woman's brain, but it didn't correspond to any sex differences. I wonder why trans men and trans women are different in this regard. Sexual preferences in trans men versus trans women seem to be different too. Most trans men having a preference for women (whether exclusive or not), and most trans women also having a preference for women (whether exclusive or not).

 

[Fliddaroonie]

Honestly,I',m all for the forced sterilisation of people with BPD. I wonder of Mr and Mrs Bloshinsky know Hitler was a fan though?

 

[gingerthief]

http://www.esextherapy.com/dissertations/DeborahEveBabyatskyGraysonCounselingTransgenderYouthUtilizingExpressiveArtTherapies.pdf

I was not ready for the explicit furry porn drawn by a minor, yikes....

 

[Xiphias]

From what I've seen in studies, trans men, even pre hormones have white/grey matter ratio drastically different from women on average and much closer to the average man, but sex differences in the brain of trans women aren't like that, and their brains aren't much different from men at all. I think I saw something about there being certain differences in a trans woman's brain, but it didn't correspond to any sex differences. I wonder why trans men and trans women are different in this regard. Sexual preferences in trans men versus trans women seem to be different too. Most trans men having a preference for women (whether exclusive or not), and most trans women also having a preference for women (whether exclusive or not).

It's because there's two classical kinds of gender dysphoria. One it the "ultra-gay" kind, which gets called homosexual transsexuals or HSTS for short. The FtMs were basically all like this before the current dangerhair trend, but they only accounted for a minority of MtFs. The majority of MtFs are autogynephiles aka AGPs aka fetishists. There are differences between people with paraphilia and normal people do not correspond to sex differences, and gays have brains more like straight people of the opposite sex.

 

[all4mom2]

I was not ready for the explicit furry porn drawn by a minor, yikes....

She was showing some of her "expressive art therapy" to Barbara Walters in the first interview at age 6. Strangely, it had her lines (what she recited when asked to explain it) written above it!

We also got to see Marilyn Volkers' anatomically correct muppets with which she diagnosed Jazz. Yikes!

 

[Dylan]

The quality of discussion at kiwifarms really went down in the last couple years. All the same morons who think they are smart shit.
Ya'll retarded and need to quit your autistic fixations on helping mutilated senile narc larvae. Just because he was groomed by his crazy bitch of a mother doesn't change the fact that he is her spawn. He is so fucking egotistical and self centered he's borderline mentally disabled. Even if he wasn't trooned out his genetic make up would not allow him to be decent individual. Better watch him getting more surgery as he eats himself to death and gets his tube tits hit the floor, while his faggot brother spews crap how ge is an inspiration , a hero, smart, bright saint who light the room and leaves rainbow trails whereever he passes.

 

[NoReturn]

I was not ready for the explicit furry porn drawn by a minor, yikes....

Pulling some images out for visibility:

Spoiler: More Jazz art in here

Non-Jazz Art

Spoiler: More

The furry porn

Spoiler: It gets worse

Today's TikToks:

sander_jennings
Sander Jennings · 1d ago
Age 1: Who had their first steps first? #lifeoftwins #twins #twinning #firststeps
Baby First Steps Song - ChuChu TV

sander_jennings
Sander Jennings · 23h ago
How to use they/them pronouns #nonbinary #lgbtq #allytoall #nonbinarypride #rupaulsdragrace #lgbt #theythem #fyp
True Colors (Acoustic Unplugged Version Instrumental) - Singo

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

OK what the fuck, all this stupid speculation about cousins and moms and no one's going down a rabbit hole to see if that sex story thing was actually a Jazz profile or someone's insane autistic side project? It has to be fake, right? We can't have this kid with a national TV show writing porn about how a mom forced a son to troon out...can we?