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- Feb 7, 2018
Tieflings were a fucking mistake on par with shapeshifters in Shadowrun.
Tabletop Community Watch
- Thread starter IAmNotAlpharius
- Start date
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- Feb 28, 2019
Are they as bad as genderfluid shapeshifting elfsluts that they're trying to prepare us to accept in 6e?
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- Jan 12, 2019
Never forget the first printing of 5e saying elves were futanari and then Wizards scrubbing it from all media in a rush second printing.
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- Apr 25, 2020
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- Jan 12, 2019
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- Feb 28, 2019
Corellon Larethian was absolutely NOT androgynous in previous editions. Well, not-androgynous as much as an Elf can be not-androgynous.
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- Apr 25, 2020
Jesus Fucking Christ. This is what happens when writers don't think about what they're doing. Or when the editor is asleep at the wheel.
Did no one remind them that this was supposed to be a joke?!
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He was described that way in 3rd edition's Deities and Demigods, but also 100% male as well. The art for him in that book is atrocious btw.
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Demon-spawn are a pretty common fantasy race, and tieflings had been around since 2e. It's really not an issue of the race itself as much as it is the massive influx of people playing the race since Laura Bailey decided to play a blue one for Critical Role's 2nd campaign
Don't forget the part where the reason for drow existing as they do was because Lolth was a terf.
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- Jan 12, 2019
Ok you've gotta share this lol. What book is it from? I haven't read a new 5e product in years.
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This is someone's fetish.
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- Dec 17, 2019
Isn't that what all gender politics are?
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- May 19, 2021
Drow have been factories for islamic content for as long as they have existed
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- Apr 1, 2017
WHAT FAGGOTRY IS THIS?
OK, sit down, it's "Tabletop Time with Drunken Uncle Johnny" again!
Elves.
Near immortal creatures of nature and magic. One of the more ancient races, often created before mankind. Existing without the wrath and rage of mankind, they strive to find harmony and balance within themselves as well as with their surroundings and their place in the universe.
Do not mistake this for weakness.
Elves have been locked in dread mortal combat with the ultimate destroyer of life and all things good.
Gruumsh. God of the Orcs. Often depicted as only having one eye as per a cyclops.
Nothing could be further from the truth. The singular eye socket was an early attempt at covering up the fact that the God of the Elves, Corellon, put out his eye with an arrow after Gruumsh attempted to paralyze him with a spear in the primal days when humans were largely hunter-gatherers worshipping totems and hiding from lightning. In the early days, Gruumsh fought with the other primal Gods over where his people would exist, and in his wrath, shattered and despoiled the virgin areas of the Prime Material plane with his great spear.
The elves have been locked in mortal combat with the orcs since time immemorial, and all know that their spirits will ascend to the Heavens to help Corellon guard the Prime Material plane from Gruumsh and his foul offspring. The God of the Orcs is followed with such fanaticism that Orcs will often remove their own eyes to emulate their fearsome God.
Gruumsh has no pity for the weak, and he views the elves as weak just as he views those of his people who cleave too closely to 'civilization' to be weak.
Gruumsh was the first, but not the least of Corellon and the elves foes, but their visage and savagery has defined the elves war against those who would ruin the balance of nature.
There can be no truce, be no peace, between the orcs and the elves, for as long as one side lives the other will seek to wipe out what they see as an anathema to their own beliefs.
Even if Corellon was to finally slay Gruumsh his sons await to carry the banner in the eternal war of elf versus orc.
Elves who devote themselves to holding back the endless tide of green flesh have no respite as their endless days and summer nights are broken by warfare and strife.
But Gruumsh is but one foe against the elvish people. While the elves have allies in the humans, endless be their wrath, the dwarves, mighty be their works, the halflings, silent be their footsteps, the gnomes, clever be their ways, and the elves few numbers can be offset by alliances with the shorter lived races against the orcs, who all see their depredations and savagery, there exists a foe that dwells in darkness and secret.
In eras gone by, nearly forgotten even by elves, there was a plague. Some say it was Gruumsh, others say it was a long forgotten elven god of disease, when the primal gods were worshipped, but those who know such secrets know that it led to a violent schism within the children of Corellon. Leading these was one of his fellow divine beings, who saw their people pushed out of the elven spaces, caught between the green anvil of the orcs and the hammer of Corellon's worshippers.
They escaped into caves, pushing down, below the frightened humans hiding from lightning and thunder who would tear an elf limb from limb if cornered. Past the dwarves, who sought to wrest iron from the bones of the earth, and into spaces so deep that darkness is brightly lit.
The children of Lloth, the spider goddess.
Cursed by Corellon to lose her beautiful form and take that of a hideous spider, Lloth led her people in darkness, and there, with the eternal twilight of a drow's lifespan, they relearned the ways of warfare and magic. They set aside their hatred of the children of Gruumsh, taking them as war-slaves for use in the endless wars that Lloth encouraged to strengthen her people to resist the tyranny of Corellon's 'perfectly balanced world'. As time went on her form changed
Her people began to see beauty in the spider's form.
And Lloth changed with them.
Lloth knew of the martial fury that dwelled within the hearts of all elves, and she honed it, shaped it, and nutured it.
Worship to her became the focus of the drow life. Where Corellon was content to allow his children to worship others of his pantheon, Lloth was a jealous diety, for she and she alone had saved her people from the cataclysmic civil war that had rocked elvish society.
The strange radiations deep within the earth threatened them as the males became more spindly, more fragile, and Lloth blessed the drow with resistance to the radiation, changing their skin to be more like her own beautiful armored form.
She gifted them with magic, and extraplanar allies, in return for slavish worship and glorifying her with all manner of praise.
The drow soon became a force to be feared as they wiped out or drove out the apex predators of the deep underdark.
War bands began back tracking the ancient paths, seeing if the surface was anything other than a disease festering wasteland of corpses and depowered divinities wailing over empty cities. Wondering if the plague had run its course.
In the drow cities, the name of Corellon was still said. Seen as the one who's flaming sword had driven their people into the dark, who had intended on cursing Lloth with a hideous body but instead taught the drow to see beauty in other ways.
The matriarchs ruled over the cities with an iron fist, backed by magic and creations of wondrous power, allies, and slaves.
Deep within the earth, they plotted their return when scouts made contact with Giants and the matrons saw their chance to punish the worshippers of Corellon through an intricate plot to send the giants marching on the lands of Corellon, his human allies, and even the children of Gruumsh.
It would be glorious.
But things came apart, when the plots of the Giants were uncovered, and human mercenaries followed the trails back, eventually confronting the matrons.
And eventually assaulting the Demon Web Pits.
But the drow, like all elves, knew that short term set backs could still be turned into victory in the long run. The mages began to research, now that the strange and unusual magics of the surface world had been rediscovered.
The drow matrons knew that the children of Corellon were still locked in eternal warfare with the children of Gruumsh. However, the humans, full of wrath and fury, crafted for battle, blessed with short life so they felt no loss falling on the field of battle and would march tens of thousands into the field, had developed armor and weapons.
The children of Lloth adopted them, adapting, as ever.
After all, they had been fashioned by Corellon for the eternal war against Gruumsh and the hordes of goblinkind.
The drow were back.
But the children of Corellon did not fear. They had allies now.
Kingdoms and empires would band together to throw back the tyranny of the matrons of the children of Lloth and the savagery of the Sons of Gruumsh.
Elven magic and vision was well served by the rapid advancement in knowledge, technology, architecture, and weaponry by the wrath filled humans, who could match the orcs face to face on the field of battle.
Beauty, poise, grace, and magic ability were the children of Corellon's gift to the pact between those races who would stand against Gruumsh and Lloth.
Elves see no issue with nudity, seeing it as just the beauty of the creations of the Gods.
The elves, and the pantheons of good, had Corellon on their side. A fearsome God willing to face Gruumsh, willing to stand up for what was good and right.
He had learned from the humans as the humans had learned from his people. He had learned the way of wrath and carnage.
There was nothing that Corellon had to fear. Nothing that he could not face and overcome. Nothing that his people, or his allies in the humans, dwarves, gnomes, and halflings, could not eventually overcome.
But from the chaos of a turbulent age, came a foe that not even Corellon could overcome.
And Corellon was struck down.
Lloth was struck down.
The children of Lloth were struck down...
The children of Gruumsh were struck down.
The children of Corellon were warped and twisted.
And the creatures of chaos took over the once proud lands.
No longer was Corellon and his allies able to stand against the tide of darkness.
For all had been lost.
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- Jan 12, 2019
In this case though Drow are the sane, non-faggy race.
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- Jan 29, 2021
Yeah, except the women boss all the men around and...
Oh wait, I'm describing marriage. Never mind, you're right.
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We didn't gatekeep our hobbies.
Edit: If you want a more serious answer, what Tabletop has fallen victim to is called Social Gentrification.
Social Gentrification
Earlier this week a friend of mine was talking about nerd culture, and was surprised when I mentioned that I don’t like it. I avoid nerd culture and, despite being the exact target demographi…
status451.com
Tl;dr: Nerd hobbies are really cool, but they were created in Nerd Culture, and Nerd Culture is intentionally unwelcoming to normies because normies are shitty as hell to Nerds, so Nerds make things uncomfortable for Normies to keep them out. Normies that can stomach the Nerds' culture move in and start pushing for change (selling out the nerds). Eventually, this opens up the hobby for enough Normies that they push the nerds out, destroying the hobby.
Normies are fine with this because objectively, cleaning up Nerd hobbies is a good thing. No one, not even nerds, like being in nerd fandoms, because nerd fandoms are full of That Guy and his friends. Most people look at the Normies that get their claws in cleaning up the shit and say yes, this is a good thing, this is clearly the right thing to do. There are more normies who are interested in Nerdy hobbies than there are Nerds, and why should Nerds be allowed to keep Nerd hobbies to themselves just because they were there first?
"Why should Dark Souls fans be the only people allowed to enjoy Souls games? Don't you feel bad for the poor widdle types who don't like Souls games? Shouldn't you eat shit so they can take what they want from you?" -- Le Paste Eating Retarded Games Journalist
The problem being, there's a disconnect. The normies have social skills and other outlets and hobbies they can go to. Some nerds simply don't have these skills. Some nerds have stunted social skills and literally CAN'T function out of nerd hobbies, because the same things that make things unwelcoming to normies as a defense mechanism for the hobby are the things they do as a defense mechanism because of no social skills. In fact, you could say that the real thing that protects nerd spaces from normies are these antisocial nerds to begin with. These nerds -- your aspies and autistics -- simply have no other place to go.
So in the big picture, gentrifying nerd hobbies is good. More money for the companies that have stolen the nerds' hobby! More people can enjoy it! It's more welcoming! It's less offensive! This is great!
But what about our nerds who are in nerdy hobbies because they literally can't stop being unwelcoming and offensive and "quirky?" Well, sucks to be them! Get fucked!
The new fans, the normies that are being pandered to, they find nerd culture offensive and upsetting, but they feel no need to be empathetic with the nerds whose space they are entering. Why should they? The space is being gentrified, a new space isn't being created for normies. D&D is being changed to be normie friendly -- they're not making "D&D for Normies." The normies don't want "D&D for Normies," they what the nerds created. And because of that, they have no need to play nice, no need to get along, no need to empathize. They're being pandered to, and like all spoiled assholes, they aren't going to be putting up with anything they don't like.
This is literally cultural imperialism -- the normies move into a fandom and immediately start imposing their cultural norms on it, existing people be damned. But the woke agree with it, so it's not problematic.
So you get your two sides of things. The nerds that can play nice with the normies, your Kirioths and the like. And the nerds that CAN'T play nice with the normies, your Arch Warhammers and the like. The former are welcomed in, as long as they never upset their new normie masters. The latter are thrown out of "the community."
And this is before you even consider your woke idiots, who are trying to do all of this with intention and malice. At least the normies are just being clueless assholes, the rainbow haired woke retards are doing it because they literally think they can brainwash young D&D players.
It's a bit like the nerds finding something cool and enjoying it, and suddenly the same bullies and jocks that tortured them for years finding out it's cool, and the nerds ending up with a black eye on the ground and the jocks talking about how they've always been nerdy and loved cool shit as they show off what they just stole from the nerd bleeding on the ground behind them. As long as it's already cool, anyway.
Being a Tabletop Nerd is suddenly cool now thanks to TVTropes and Critical Role. But Nerds are still fucking losers. And nerd hobbies are awesome, but who let all these fucking nerds in?
And is also known as the Nerds, Normies, and Sociopaths problem:
Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution | Meaningness
How muggles and sociopaths invade and undermine creative subcultures; and how to stop them.
This one focuses more on the socioeconomic version of it.
It talks about how in any subculture -- tabletop, for example -- you have the people creating the shit (Gygax and Gygax Jr) and the big time fans (the actual D&D players). These are the nerds. They create nerdy shit and work hard to refine and promote and enjoy nerdy shit.
Then you get normies, who join in but aren't big time fans, they're tourists for lack of a better term. They might like D&D, but they don't talk about character builds with each other after the session, they talk about sportsball and which whore they would like to fuck if they could.
And then you get your sociopaths. They're your cultural parasites, who see an easy mark: the nerds. Nerd shit is cool. Cool can be SOLD to the normies. So they leech off of the creators, either taking over the hobby as they can. This is your WoTC and more importantly: your Critical Role. It's literally what Critical Role did.
The creators get sidelined and pushed out and the hobby becomes creatively stagnant as all the creative people are gone.
The big time fans might stick around because they're invested but the sociopaths don't give a shit about them, they care about selling the nerd shit to normies.
And the normies don't care because they were never invested, not really -- they're tourists, and now the hotel is pandering to them and selling them fancy drinks with umbrellas. And those creepy guys creating the nerd shit are gone and they don't have to talk to them anymore while they're at the hotel bar.
Sound like how say, Blizzard and WOW has turned out over the years? Or how D&D, Pathfinder, and Vampire: The Pandering have turned out in recent years?
Tabletop has a gatekeeping problem. They didn't keep these fuckers out, and now the existing franchises are in a death spiral because of it.
4chan has a well known comic about it:
And this simple version:
And GPrime85 has his own take:
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