Chris - The Legal Issues - A Prosecutor's Perspective

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
Is there any possibility that Chris will be deemed incompetent, and either institutionalised or placed under supervision for the rest of his life? It seems to me that he is a good case for those measures at this point, as he really cannot take care of himself and he apparently does awful shit when he's not supervised.

Incompetent? Quite possible. But that would be incompetent to stand trial/assist in his own defense and that simply means sent away to an institution for competency restoration then brought back and tried.

If you mean in the sense of, separately from criminal proceedings, having a guardian appointed and put into some sort of assisted living situation? Maybe. I don't know enough about the criteria for how we decide someone needs a financial guardian, or to be in an assisted living home, or what have you, to deeply speculate. It's not my area of law.
 
Do you think Chris will be removed from the home permanently?
Not OP, but:

This is an issue for the civil rather than the criminal proceedings. It's the civil proceedings that have given rise to the EPO.

I would be certain that Chris and Barb are not going to live together again and that will be done via a court order. The form and nature of the court order depends on how VA handles its incapable adults legislation. My incapable adults experience is all in a non-US jurisdiction and I am uncertain to which extent the fact that the house is jointly in Chris' name weighs in VA law. I would tentatively posit that if Barb has been removed to safety, Chris' right to enjoyment of his property means that the court will not make any order preventing him from returning to 14BC.

However, if Chris himself becomes the subject of incapacity/social work proceedings after all this, fuck knows. The custom and practice of tard wrangling and housing in VA is well outside my wheelhouse.

I am reluctant to predict that Barb will go home, ever, even with social work support and carers going in and suchlike. Especially if the sexual abuse is found proved in the civil proceedings. It's expensive to keep someone at home with a lot of support, and someone who is provably that vulnerable is probably best cared for in a setting where (at least in theory) it should be more difficult to abuse her.
 
Incompetent? Quite possible. But that would be incompetent to stand trial/assist in his own defense and that simply means sent away to an institution for competency restoration then brought back and tried.

If you mean in the sense of, separately from criminal proceedings, having a guardian appointed and put into some sort of assisted living situation? Maybe. I don't know enough about the criteria for how we decide someone needs a financial guardian, or to be in an assisted living home, or what have you, to deeply speculate. It's not my area of law.
Well, he's definitely building a case against himself by stealing Barb's money and spending it like junkee on skid row.
 
I find it a bit disturbing how often this comes up on this forum, but I am an investigative agent for a large state agency. I do not work in Virginia, although my work has taken me to Virginia many times. My specialization is sex crimes. In a past life I was a parole officer, also not in Virginia, but my specialization there was also with sex offenders. I supervised many sex offenders who were convicted in Virginian courts. Virginia has relatively strict supervision terms but a very low interstate transfer fee, and they greatly neglect their out of state offenders, so many, many Virginians who are under supervision transfer out of state if they are able. I have actually been to the jail where it is likely Chris will be detained if charges are brought. I have testified in Virginian courts in sex offense cases.

My perspective on Chris as an offender, if his claims are true, are that he is almost certainly an opportunistic offender. That cuts both ways. He (possibly) fucked his mother. He (possibly) did this because of his proximity to her, his constant contact with her, and her inability to resist effectively. Chris is mentally unwell (this may be the understatement of the century). Ever wonder why so many grandpas fuck their grandkids and end up on the registry? Its unfettered access and sexual frustration. The upshot of this is that he isn't likely to ever be a threat to the general public, in that he won't grab a kid off a playground and haul them off. The downside of this is that literally anyone or anything in Barb's position was also fair game- someone so sexually stunted but with such a focus on sexuality as Chris could have easily fucked a child, a mentally incapable person, or even just an animal. An ability or inclination to resist would likely reduce the odds of such a thing to near zero, but some kids or mentally infirm do not have that ability or inclination, and opportunistic offenders will use bribery or shame their prospective victims.

Now, how will the following events go?

For one, some of this hinges on what comes of Barb's medical evaluation. We may find that Chris is simply saying crazy shit. He may have never sexually abused her, or done so in a manner that would not be consistent with injuries, abrasions, or a sample being left behind. If this is found to be the case, it makes prosecution much more difficult if they even attempt to pursue it.

Absent the possible sexual abuse, the conditions Chris lives in with Barb will not rise to the level of elder abuse. Although filthy and verging on being a hoarder, their environment is nothing compared to many others out there, and as crazy as Chris is, there is much worse out there- perhaps not so many as entertaining, but there is a lot worse.

How will the interview with Chris go? Well, depending on the findings of the examination, there may not be one. Being known as crazy- and there is an overwhelming body of evidence that although he likely will be held as mentally capable he is certainly prone to saying untruths- there is a strong defense to any claims made in an interview, even if Chris declines to have a lawyer present. Interviewing the mentally ill is often fruitless. I've had random nutjobs with naught but trespassing and vagrancy offenses claim to have killed people on vivid detail, and I've had unrepentant serial child rapists tell me extremely detailed lies. Chris will receive pretrial mental health examinations, he will speak to a psychiatrist, and his attorney and pretrial services will attempt to enroll him in mental health care if he is allowed pretrial release (which he probably will be).

As a general rule, Virginia is strict in sentencing but tends to suspend much of the sentence if not the entirety if the offender is not a recidivist. Much to my irritation, I have charged and successfully had many felons convicted with new offenses up to and including armed robbery only to see their Virginian cases of supervision partially revoked or not even be retaken by Virginia (which is illegal under the interstate compact agreement but Virginia does it anyway)

Chris does not have a major record and his past offenses are far enough distant, and of a substantially different nature, that they are not likely to have him remanded or have him receive active time. Chris's documented absurd behavior and internet antics, coupled with him coming out to admit everything, provide the defense with excellent material to argue mitigating circumstances, and if no physical evidence is found perhaps even dismissal with a new social worker checking up on him regularly. But we really need a few more pieces of this puzzle to get a great idea of where we're going.

Depending on Barb's state of mind, she may be going to a group home. I don't think we really have a great idea of where she is at mentally nowadays or how incapacitated she is.
 
Standard Lawyer Disclaimer: I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer.
That's right. Thomas Jefferson is my lawyer.

And remember, by the time we're going to trial there's been at least one, maybe more, interrogation/interview. And there's no way Chris doesn't spill his guts, especially when faced with the texts and the call and everything the police tell him they have - he'll do what criminals have always done, and attempt to explain his way out of it.
I was just saying in another thread that if the police question Chris that he'll instantly incriminate himself. He's incapable of outwitting 13 year old trolls over the phone. There's no way he's going to survive an interrogation interview.
 
How do you personally feel about the situation thus far? Any particular legal hurdles stand out to you when attempting to acquire evidence towards these alleged crimes?

Personally? I think it's pretty likely this happened. The evidence we have is mostly circumstantial, plus a few confessions. And it's awful. But sadly not really surprising.

Legal hurdles in terms of evidence? So, as I suggested above, texts and computer messages from Chris can be acquired and authenticated without getting other people involved. The financial stuff, same thing. But in terms of the calls, we're talking about tracking down and talking to a bunch of people on the internet who could be anywhere.

So a lot depends on how interviews with Chris go. But I think getting warrants is possible, and I don't see Chris not wanting to talk and explain everything away or rant and rave.
 
My perspective on Chris as an offender, if his claims are true, are that he is almost certainly an opportunistic offender. That cuts both ways. He (possibly) fucked his mother. He (possibly) did this because of his proximity to her, his constant contact with her, and her inability to resist effectively.
The thing that scares me is that young children can also be taken advantage of similarly. Like early preschool and toddler age. I hope Chris' "Friends"...the friends that Marvin mentioned in the past who have kids never have them around Chris ever again. I noticed Chris' MO seems to be more about trying to groom and test limits. Like when he tries to touch women, kiss men, and give out back massages. I can easily see how Chris groomed Barb into doing this with "friendly kisses", touching, stroking, massaging, pet names, and eventually the dirty deed. I can also see Chris thinking, well, I didn't beat her or call her bad names while doing it, so it's not sexual assault.
 
Even on the off chance this could go to trail, Would Chris' past convictions be a factor?

Not in the initial trial. There are fairly strict rules about using past convictions, because we don't want people getting convicted based on the jury going 'Oh wow this guy is a habitual criminal he must have done this too'

Generally, prior convictions only come in during the sentencing phase of bifurcated trials where they are admissible as relevant to how much punishment someone should get.

There are some, very few, exceptions.

Also it will depend on whether they were truly convictions, or deferred adjudication probations and so forth.

The thing that scares me is that young children can also be taken advantage of similarly. Like early preschool and toddler age. I hope Chris' "Friends"...the friends that Marvin mentioned in the past who have kids never have them around Chris ever again. I noticed Chris' MO seems to be more about trying to groom and test limits. Like when he tries to touch women, kiss men, and give out back massages. I can easily see how Chris groomed Barb into doing this with "friendly kisses", touching, stroking, massaging, pet names, and eventually the dirty deed. I can also see Chris thinking, well, I didn't beat her or call her bad names while doing it, so it's not sexual assault.

Generally, any time you're talking about sex offender treatment, they use a lot of diagnostic tools to figure stuff like this out. So if it gets that far, they'll definitely have experts figuring out what kind of sex offender he is and what comes with that, so to speak.

Also if he becomes a registered sex offender most jurisdictions that I'm aware of don't make a lot of distinctions between types of sex offense. It's one of the gripes sex offender advocacy groups (yes, sadly, such things exist) have with the registry. So even though he didn't offend against a child, a lot of the restrictions relating to kids would probably still apply to him as a registrant. Depending, of course, on the exact details of how Virginia's sex offender registry works.

That's right. Thomas Jefferson is my lawyer.

Somehow fitting for a thread discussing Virginian white men with questionable sexual habits.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Excellent posts, thanks.

I have to imagine it's likely the county police will want to at least ask a few questions, and with Chris... that could go a number of loony ways, not least of which would be a full confession.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: Hogar Grupal
and restitution (making the victim whole - so every month he's gonna give us a set amount to put back in her pocket until all the money he took is paid back) would be some of the conditions.
How can Chris be expected to make a stable income sufficient to take care of himself, much less pay restitution on top of it?

Why bother with a plea deal with probation conditions that, you say, he is destined to fail within six months? Why set him up to fail? What's the point?

The best-case scenario for everybody is for Chris to be placed in an institution that can give him the care he needs.
 
What can the state do if Barb refuses to play ball, and they find nothing with a rape kit? Is that even mandatory or can she refuse it?

So, no, a rape kit isn't mandatory. But that's assuming she's competent/of sound mind enough to even make that call/understand what's being asked of her. I don't know about Virginia law on who gets to make that call if she's not.

I suppose you could get a warrant for it, similar to the blood draw warrants you can get for suspected drunk drivers who won't consent. But that feels icky.

As a general rule, a victim never /has/ to play ball. But the common idea that a victim gets to press or drop charges is also wrong. The State does.

So if she won't play ball? Proceed with what we have. Seek a warrant for Chris' electronic devices. Seek a warrant for Chris' texts. Seek a warrant for Barb and Chris' financial information.

And the big one, interview Chris.

How can Chris be expected to make a stable income sufficient to take care of himself, much less pay restitution on top of it?

Why bother with a plea deal with probation conditions that, you say, he is destined to fail within six months? Why set him up to fail? What's the point?

The best-case scenario for everybody is for Chris to be placed in an institution that can give him the care he needs.

Great questions.

As to the income issue - well, restitution is typically set based on an individual's income. And frankly Chris is capable of working many minimum wage jobs, but just won't. At least that's my suspicion.

Why bother? Well, that's very case dependent, but here are a few reasons we might do it even believing the Defendant will fail.. One, it still gives him a chance to succeed. It's not a rigged game, I just suspect he wouldn't be able to manage it. Sometimes it's the right thing to do. And sometimes it's a way to get a plea, avoid a trial (which are huge resource sinks and you never know what the jury will do), and still end up in the same place down the line as you would have been had you said 'Our offer is X years' and they rejected it and you won at trial.

Plea-bargains are what make the system work. For better or worse (and a lot of people think for worse, but that's a whole separate discussion), our system is built on the idea of the plea-bargain. I forget the exact statistics but upwards of 90% of criminal cases end in a plea-bargain of some type. Contrary to popular perception, trials are rare. If everyone in a given year went to trial, the system literally couldn't handle it. There's not enough money, not enough lawyers, not enough courtrooms and not enough time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I find it a bit disturbing how often this comes up on this forum, but I am an investigative agent for a large state agency. I do not work in Virginia, although my work has taken me to Virginia many times. My specialization is sex crimes. In a past life I was a parole officer, also not in Virginia, but my specialization there was also with sex offenders. I supervised many sex offenders who were convicted in Virginian courts. Virginia has relatively strict supervision terms but a very low interstate transfer fee, and they greatly neglect their out of state offenders, so many, many Virginians who are under supervision transfer out of state if they are able. I have actually been to the jail where it is likely Chris will be detained if charges are brought. I have testified in Virginian courts in sex offense cases.

My perspective on Chris as an offender, if his claims are true, are that he is almost certainly an opportunistic offender. That cuts both ways. He (possibly) fucked his mother. He (possibly) did this because of his proximity to her, his constant contact with her, and her inability to resist effectively. Chris is mentally unwell (this may be the understatement of the century). Ever wonder why so many grandpas fuck their grandkids and end up on the registry? Its unfettered access and sexual frustration. The upshot of this is that he isn't likely to ever be a threat to the general public, in that he won't grab a kid off a playground and haul them off. The downside of this is that literally anyone or anything in Barb's position was also fair game- someone so sexually stunted but with such a focus on sexuality as Chris could have easily fucked a child, a mentally incapable person, or even just an animal. An ability or inclination to resist would likely reduce the odds of such a thing to near zero, but some kids or mentally infirm do not have that ability or inclination, and opportunistic offenders will use bribery or shame their prospective victims.

Now, how will the following events go?

For one, some of this hinges on what comes of Barb's medical evaluation. We may find that Chris is simply saying crazy shit. He may have never sexually abused her, or done so in a manner that would not be consistent with injuries, abrasions, or a sample being left behind. If this is found to be the case, it makes prosecution much more difficult if they even attempt to pursue it.

Absent the possible sexual abuse, the conditions Chris lives in with Barb will not rise to the level of elder abuse. Although filthy and verging on being a hoarder, their environment is nothing compared to many others out there, and as crazy as Chris is, there is much worse out there- perhaps not so many as entertaining, but there is a lot worse.

How will the interview with Chris go? Well, depending on the findings of the examination, there may not be one. Being known as crazy- and there is an overwhelming body of evidence that although he likely will be held as mentally capable he is certainly prone to saying untruths- there is a strong defense to any claims made in an interview, even if Chris declines to have a lawyer present. Interviewing the mentally ill is often fruitless. I've had random nutjobs with naught but trespassing and vagrancy offenses claim to have killed people on vivid detail, and I've had unrepentant serial child rapists tell me extremely detailed lies. Chris will receive pretrial mental health examinations, he will speak to a psychiatrist, and his attorney and pretrial services will attempt to enroll him in mental health care if he is allowed pretrial release (which he probably will be).

As a general rule, Virginia is strict in sentencing but tends to suspend much of the sentence if not the entirety if the offender is not a recidivist. Much to my irritation, I have charged and successfully had many felons convicted with new offenses up to and including armed robbery only to see their Virginian cases of supervision partially revoked or not even be retaken by Virginia (which is illegal under the interstate compact agreement but Virginia does it anyway)

Chris does not have a major record and his past offenses are far enough distant, and of a substantially different nature, that they are not likely to have him remanded or have him receive active time. Chris's documented absurd behavior and internet antics, coupled with him coming out to admit everything, provide the defense with excellent material to argue mitigating circumstances, and if no physical evidence is found perhaps even dismissal with a new social worker checking up on him regularly. But we really need a few more pieces of this puzzle to get a great idea of where we're going.

Depending on Barb's state of mind, she may be going to a group home. I don't think we really have a great idea of where she is at mentally nowadays or how incapacitated she is.
I’m a Registered Nurse who used to work closely with many clients in group homes, adult family homes and the like.

I have always thought that something like that would make an excellent fit for Chris, insomuch that it would give him structure, meals etc. In my state, when a client enters into one of these, their SSI or whatever is taken by the state (save for a small amount per month for discretionary) which makes sense as room/board/utilities/hygiene items are completely provided for.

With Chris potentially having stipulations placed on him, I wonder if VA could impose something like this…..? Especially given that he wouldn’t be able to support a house in any way shape or form without Barb.
 
I’d also say as far as the insanity point, there are states that don’t allow an insanity defense, not sure if VA is one of them. Also, being criminally insane doesn’t mean you are off the hook as far as going to trial and being convicted. This is currently happening in the Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell case in Idaho. Lori was found to be unfit to stand trial and sent to a mental health facility in order to be rehabilitated. They’ll do regular tests and evaluations and when the psychologist or whoever finds her to be improved enough to be considered competent, her trial will continue.

So even if Chris’s lawyer tried to argue insanity, say his autism didn’t allow him to think rationally or that he was coerced by trolls, they’d still have to work hard as fuck to prove it. Being insane or mentally disabled doesn’t absolve someone of breaking the law. They would have to go through a lot to prove that Chris’s condition made him unable to make the right choices. I think the fact that he has essentially been running a business online for years and a lot of other things (like stealing money from barb’s account) show that he’s not incapable of normal thought processes and that he is aware of the choices he’s making. Many of those choices are for his own benefit.

I think his legal representation will try to lean on competency pretty hard in order to try to explain some of his decisions which is why I singled out this part of the OP. It’s really the only defense he has and I think he’s used his autism as a crutch to excuse away a lot of stuff he’s done in the past. Unfortunately for him, I think the evasive language he used in those text screenshots will be damning. “Strictly confidential, just between you and I” implies that he knows how other people would react to the information. Using “romp in the hay” to describe the sexual assault shows that he’s trying to avoid phrases that outright admit what he did. I can’t remember if he did this in the audio recordings, I’d have to listen again, but I think that even just those two phrases say a LOT about his ability to make rational choices and his awareness of right and wrong.

There’s always the possibility of him being considered fit to stand trial but sentenced to a mental health facility rather than prison due to the circumstances as well.
 
Last edited:
Back