Opinion Afghanistan Is Your Fault - The American public now has what it wanted.


By Tom Nichols

Kabul has fallen. Americans will now exercise their usual partisan outrage for a few weeks, and then Afghanistan, like everything else in a nation with an attention span not much longer than a fast-food commercial, will be forgotten. In the meantime, American citizens will separate into their usual camps and identify all of the obvious causes and culprits except for one: themselves.

Many Americans will bristle at the idea that this defeat overseas can be laid at their feet. When U.S. forces had to endure the misery of the retreat from North Korea back to the 38th parallel, no one made the argument that it had happened because of the voters. No one turned to the American people during the fall of Saigon and said, “This is on you.”

So why would I do that now?

Much of what happened in Korea and Vietnam—ultimately constituting a tie and a loss, if we are to be accurate—was beyond the control of the American public. Boys were drafted and sent into battle, sometimes in missions never intended to be revealed to the public.

Afghanistan was different. This was a war that was immensely popular at the outset and mostly conducted in full view of the American public. The problem was that, once the initial euphoria wore off, the public wasn’t much interested in it. Coverage in print media remained solid, but cable-news coverage of Afghanistan dropped off quickly, especially once a new adventure was launched in Iraq.

In post-2001 America, it became fashionable to speak of “war weariness,” but citizens who were not in the military or part of a military family or community did not have to endure even minor inconveniences, much less shoulder major burdens such as a draft, a war tax, or resource shortages. The soldiers who served overseas in those first years of major operations soon felt forgotten. “America’s not at war” was a common refrain among the troops. “We’re at war. America’s at the mall.”

And now those same Americans have the full withdrawal from Afghanistan they apparently want: Some 70 percent of the public supports a pullout. Not that they care that intensely about it; as the foreign-policy scholar Stephen Biddle recently observed, the war is practically an afterthought in U.S. politics. “You would need an electron microscope to detect the effect of Afghanistan on any congressional race in the last decade,” Biddle said early this year. “It’s been invisible.” But Presidents Obama, Trump, and Biden all ran on getting out of the war, and now we’re out.

What the public does care about, however, is using Afghanistan as raw material for cheap patriotism and partisan attacks (some right and some wrong, but few of them in good faith) on every president since 2001. After the worst attack on U.S. soil, Americans had no real interest in adult conversation about the reality of anti-terrorist operations in so harsh an environment as Afghanistan (which might have entailed a presence there long beyond 20 years), nor did they want to think about whether “draining the swamp” and modernizing and developing Afghanistan (which would mean a lot more than a few elections) was worth the cost and effort.

Maybe it would have been worth it. Or maybe such a project was impossible. We’ll never know for certain, because American political and military leaders only tried pieces of several strategies, never a coherent whole, mostly to keep the costs and casualties down and to keep the war off the front pages and away from a public that didn’t want to hear about it. Today, many claim that they did not know what the military or the government were really up to, and they point to The Washington Post’s attempt to create a Pentagon Papers vibe around a set of revelations that were not nearly as shocking as the secrets of Vietnam—or should not have been, anyway, to anyone who read a newspaper during the past two decades.

Nor did Americans ever consider whether or when Afghanistan, as a source of terrorist threats to the U.S., had been effectively neutralized. Nothing is perfect, and risks are never zero. But there was no time at which we all decided that “close enough” was good enough, and that we’d rather come home than stay. Obama made something like this case during the 2011 surge, and Donald Trump tried to make a similar argument, but because Trump was too stupid or too lazy to understand anything about international affairs (or much else), he made it purely as a weaponized political charge and, as with his inane attempts to engage North Korea, in a search for a splashy and quick win.

Biden’s policy, of course, is not that different from Trump’s, despite all the partisan howling about it from Republicans. As my colleague David Frum has put it: “For good or ill, the Biden policy on Afghanistan is the same as the Trump policy, only with less lying.”

But as comforting as it would be to blame Obama and Trump, we must look inward and admit that we told our elected leaders—of both parties—that they were facing a no-win political test. If they chose to leave, they would be cowards who abandoned Afghanistan. If they chose to stay, they were warmongers intent on pursuing “forever war.” And so here we are, in the place we were destined to be: resting on 20 years of safety from another 9/11, but with Afghanistan again in the hands of the Taliban.

A serious people—the kind of people we once were—would have made serious choices, long before this current debacle was upon them. They would today be trying to learn something from nearly 2,500 dead service members and many more wounded. They would be grimly assessing risk and preparing both overseas and at home for the reality of a terrorist nation making its way back onto the international map.

Instead, we’re bickering about masks. We’re holding super-spreader events. We’re complaining and finger-pointing about who ruined our fall plans. (I’m part of that last group. Spoiler: It’s the people who refused easily accessible vaccinations.)

Biden was right, in the end, to bite the bullet and refuse to pass this conflict on to yet another president. His execution of this resolve, however, looks to be a tragic and shameful mess and will likely be a case study in policy schools for years to come. But there was no version of “Stop the forever war” that didn’t end with the fall of Kabul. We believed otherwise, as a nation, because we wanted to believe it. And because we had shopping to do and television to watch and arguments to be had on social media.

But before we move on, before we head back to the mall, before we resume posting memes, and before we return to bickering with each other about whether we should have to mask up at Starbucks, let us remember that this day came about for one reason, and one reason only.

Because it is what we wanted.
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Why would Americans do this? How could we be so selfish?
 
As fucked as it is Biden unilaterally pulling out knowing the consequences is probably the most principled stand anybody in our government has taken in decades.
He wasn't the one who made the decision. Matter of fact, he fucked up the plan to withdraw.
OP of Happenings thread said:
Background: In 2020 the Taliban came to an agreement with US President Donald Trump to halt attacks while the American military withdrew from the country, the deadline being May 1st 2021. The Biden administration found itself unable or unwilling to complete the withdraw in this timeframe and set a later date of September 11th, the twenty year anniversary of the attacks on NYC and D.C. The Taliban rebuked the American government and has begun an offensive starting on May 2nd 2021 with a declaration that the American government broke the terms of the treaty. The attacks have only intensified since and the Taliban have begun to rout Afghan National Army forces whom have begun surrendering en masse in a similar fashion witnessed during the ISIS expansion of 2015.
Link to the post. The blame for this lays at the feet of Biden and his administration.
 
Trump said we needed to leave, so did Obama. Biden finally made the call to pull the plug. Staying anymore wouldn’t have changed a god damn thing since the Afghan army tucked tail and ran immediately. The Afghan army was better equipped and had 300k troops to the tali’s 80-100k. Complete fucking disgrace.

From what I've read it seems like part of the problem was that the ANA's air power- which the Taliban would have been hard-pressed to counter- wasn't really in working order. I'm actually in agreement that we shouldn't stay there, but it seems like this admin just shrugged and let the Taliban have the place. once the Taliban started ignoring the ceasefire we could have at least broken the blitz from the air before we fucked off for good, but they were allowed to form giant convoys of technicals to sweep the entire nation. after that the country fell in a matter of weeks, and to make things worse we look like retarded cucks to the point that china is publicly gloating that this proves we won't honor treaties or save our allies. seems like in the wake of this they're eyeballing Taiwan harder than ever before, judging by the flurry of state media posts talking about they'll be unopposed "once war starts"

Hell, Biden really hasn't even remotely "pulled the plug" because we're now in the process of moving thousands more troops back into the godforsaken country. He just ordered 1,000 more troops there today, which brings the total he's deployed up to what... 6000ish? everyone is talking like we've left, but really we just sorta left for a minute and then immediately sent thousands of soldiers back into to a worse situation than before, which is the worst possible outcome
 
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As if that hive of desert rats was going to have anything resembling normalcy. The US should have stopped babysitting them years ago. Would have been the same result.
 
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judging from his comments in the prior months that he was confident the ANA and govt would hold the Taliban at bay and there was nothing to worry about? I'm pretty sure he was completely blindsided by the country folding and is just pivoting to "y-y-yeah we knew it was going to instantly implode all along" as a giant cope because it's all they have

i mean either that or he took the ~~principled stand~~ of spending half a year lying to everyone about how everything was going to be great, while knowing collapse was inevitable but not warning anyone or doing anything about it because reasons, lol
Nobody really expected the government to last. Politicians always give rosy or optimistic analysis of shit in public because "it's all fucked" doesn't play well with people, but what they're saying when the cameras are off is usually totally different. Biden knew damn well that the Afghan government couldn't survive. I think what surprised him and everybody else in the government though was the speed at which it happened.

Biden has been saying for years that America shouldn't be fighting another country's civil war. This is what it looks like when he sticks to that even knowing the consequences.

Also, there was 20 years of "warnings" that the Afghan government couldn't survive and we had 20 years of trying to "do something about it". Nobody who wasn't terminally retarded ever thought this would end in anything other then a humiliating defeat for America.
 
I agree with pulling out of Afghanistan. If I wasn't a child in 01, I'd probably have hated the idea of invading then. But Biden's "how many generations of sons and daughters do you want me to send" sounds so hollow coming from a guy who voted to go in and kept troops in as VP. Rumsfeld knew in 2003 that we had no clue what we were doing. So Biden had that information as VP and kept funneling money to Raytheon and Boeing.

Edit: im sure the Northern Providence appreciates us leaving the Taliban a metric fuck load of 249's and m4's. Itll be much more challenging holding off against technicals with mounted m2's.
 
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Nobody who wasn't terminally retarded ever thought this would end in anything other then a humiliating defeat for America.
Are you back on this again?

Holy shit, you're basically either trolling or terminally retarded.

Here's a hint: Biden's withdrawal was so fucking shitty that 30 years ago if you'd put forward that kind of plan you'd have probably gotten an official reprimand in your jacket.

Any leader (Milley, I'm looking at you) who oversaw some shit like that would have been fucking crushed.

Once again: IT ISN'T THAT THE TALIBAN TOOK OVER! THAT WAS A GIVEN BY 2004! IT'S HOW THE WITHDRAWAL HAPPENED.

A fucking crayon eating jarhead could have come up with a better plan, but your guy shit the bed because he didn't want the Trump administration to get any credit and he wanted an 11 Sept photo op, so he screwed everything up, broke the deals, and now we have this.

Biden has been saying for years that America shouldn't be fighting another country's civil war. This is what it looks like when he sticks to that even knowing the consequences.

Well, why did he vote for it?

And as VP, why didn't he push for us to leave?

Why is he looking at Syria and Somalia and Iran?

He fucked up the withdrawal plan out of hubris and you're trying to make it about which cabal of goat fuckers is in charge of the other goat fuckers.
 
Politicians always give rosy or optimistic analysis of shit in public because "it's all fucked" doesn't play well with people,
Actually this is exactly what Churchill would do, he would forecast heavy strife and pain in advance to temper any reactions during the war. If Biden was an intelligent President he would have done an oval office briefing on national television declaring the pullout and make it clear that Afghanistan truly needed to stand on its own and explicitly state that there is a chance for failure and that the American public should prepare for such an eventuality.
 
I agree with pulling out of Afghanistan. If I wasn't a child in 01, I'd probably have hated the idea of invading then. But Biden's "how many generations of sons and daughters do you want me to send" sounds so hollow coming from a guy who voted to go in and kept troops in as VP. Rumsfeld knew in 2003 that we had no clue what we were doing. So Biden had that information as VP and kept funneling money to Raytheon and Boeing.
Biden was a big supporter of invading Iraq also.

After 9/11 the country lost its fucking mind, including our leaders. I think the major mistake the US made was it decided to occupy Afghanistan after it deposed the Taliban and remake it as some sort of retarded shortbus version of America. That was always a doomed project.

Are you back on this again?

Holy shit, you're basically either trolling or terminally retarded.

Here's a hint: Biden's withdrawal was so fucking shitty that 30 years ago if you'd put forward that kind of plan you'd have probably gotten an official reprimand in your jacket.

Any leader (Milley, I'm looking at you) who oversaw some shit like that would have been fucking crushed.

Once again: IT ISN'T THAT THE TALIBAN TOOK OVER! THAT WAS A GIVEN BY 2004! IT'S HOW THE WITHDRAWAL HAPPENED.

A fucking crayon eating jarhead could have come up with a better plan, but your guy shit the bed because he didn't want the Trump administration to get any credit and he wanted an 11 Sept photo op, so he screwed everything up, broke the deals, and now we have this.



Well, why did he vote for it?

And as VP, why didn't he push for us to leave?

Why is he looking at Syria and Somalia and Iran?

He fucked up the withdrawal plan out of hubris and you're trying to make it about which cabal of goat fuckers is in charge of the other goat fuckers.

See above. Also he did push for us to leave as VP. And on the campaign trail.

Anyway, I want a step by step for how you'd cleanly withdraw from Afghanistan, geopolitical genius you are.
 
Anyway, I want a step by step for how you'd cleanly withdraw from Afghanistan, geopolitical genius you are.
Fine.

Abide by the treaty first.

Move everyone who will be going back to the States to the FOB's (Oh, wait, the Biden administration abandoned any FOB that had gunfire near it because MUH OPTICS)

Once the area is cleared, move the convoys with heavy security and CAS back to the next line. Have infantry provide cover while the REMFs destroy everything.

Take the planes and stop moving illegal aliens with them, divert to Kabul airport with fighter support. Move the aircraft carrier back to provide immediate support.

Arrange with Pakistan, our ALLY, to use their airspace for refuelers.

Keep moving back.

Evacuate embassy personnel by March 1st. Use the embassy and the C&C TOC.

Keep pulling back and repeating. Any hit against the convoys or lines are returned with fucking napalm and MOABs.

Once the civilians are out, keep moving back.

At the airfield, throw a satchel charge in the vehicles, run for the Chinooks, have Apaches and CAS aircraft. Fly to Pakistan. Refuel, head back to carrier.

Everyone gets home.

Taliban can have the fucking shithole.

GEE! HOW FUCKING HARD WOULD THAT BE?

Compare that, a BOG FUCKING STANDARD pull out plan, to what Biden did.
 
Anyway, I want a step by step for how you'd cleanly withdraw from Afghanistan, geopolitical genius you are.
Step one: Follow the agreement your predecessor already made.
Step two: Do it.
Step three: Smile for the camera and take credit, memory hole the fact your predecessor is the one who made the deal.
Step four: Profit.
 
Biden was a big supporter of invading Iraq also.

After 9/11 the country lost its fucking mind, including our leaders. I think the major mistake the US made was it decided to occupy Afghanistan after it deposed the Taliban and remake it as some sort of retarded shortbus version of America.
Biden was a politician for the fall of Saigon. He was a politician for the release of the pentagon papers. He stood as VP while we made the exact mistakes we made in Vietnam. He was VP for the first Lessons Learned reports from SIGAR illustrating that point. He wasn't VP until the war was 8 yrs old. He didnt "lose his mind" he just didn't care until the sack of shit fell in his lap.
 
Fine.

Abide by the treaty first.

Move everyone who will be going back to the States to the FOB's (Oh, wait, the Biden administration abandoned any FOB that had gunfire near it because MUH OPTICS)

Once the area is cleared, move the convoys with heavy security and CAS back to the next line. Have infantry provide cover while the REMFs destroy everything.

Take the planes and stop moving illegal aliens with them, divert to Kabul airport with fighter support. Move the aircraft carrier back to provide immediate support.

Arrange with Pakistan, our ALLY, to use their airspace for refuelers.

Keep moving back.

Evacuate embassy personnel by March 1st. Use the embassy and the C&C TOC.

Keep pulling back and repeating. Any hit against the convoys or lines are returned with fucking napalm and MOABs.

Once the civilians are out, keep moving back.

At the airfield, throw a satchel charge in the vehicles, run for the Chinooks, have Apaches and CAS aircraft. Fly to Pakistan. Refuel, head back to carrier.

Everyone gets home.

Taliban can have the fucking shithole.

GEE! HOW FUCKING HARD WOULD THAT BE?

Compare that, a BOG FUCKING STANDARD pull out plan, to what Biden did.
Lol you just described a call of duty mission you neckbeard.
 
Biden was a politician for the fall of Saigon. He was a politician for the release of the pentagon papers. He stood as VP while we made the exact mistakes we made in Vietnam. He was VP for the first Lessons Learned reports from SIGAR illustrating that point. He wasn't VP until the war was 8 yrs old. He didnt "lose his mind" he just didn't care until the sack of shit fell in his lap.
You know the more I learn about US foreign policy the more I learn one thing: our politicians are full of shit, but they believe they aren't. No, most of these idiots really do think they're doing the right thing.
 
Step one: Follow the agreement your predecessor already made.
Step two: Do it.
Step three: Smile for the camera and take credit, memory hole the fact your predecessor is the one who made the deal.
Step four: Profit.
The only thing Biden changed about Trump's agreement was the timetable, and the Taliban don't give a fuck because they're getting what they want anyway. The US had nothing to do with this, we announced we were leaving and the ANA defected. This was always going to happen. If we followed the original timeline that would have happened. The moment we said we were leaving they were going to take over the country.

Anyway this is the second thread this gay argument has happened in. America has no power here, never did, and never could. I'll leave it at that.
 
The only thing Biden changed about Trump's agreement was the timetable,
Not even going to bother reading past this because Biden changing the timetable is equivalent to reneging on the deal, which is what pissed the Taliban off. Literally the entire reason why this shitfest happened.

A fucking ceasefire agreement with an opposing militant force isn't a dinner date. You can't just go "oh hey guys, can you wait a few more months?". Especially when they wanted your ass gone over a decade ago.
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This was always going to happen. If we followed the original timeline that would have happened. The moment we said we were leaving they were going to take over the country.
Nobody is upset they took over the country. The withdrawal being a massive shitfest instead of an orderly affair with zero casualties and a lot less materiel being left behind is what people are pissed about. Had Biden gone with the original deal, you wouldn't have had U.S. citizens being airlifted off the top of the embassy roof in Kabul amidst a hostile takeover. People falling off of the landing gear of airplanes from 500+ feet in the air. Etc.
 
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You know the more I learn about US foreign policy the more I learn one thing: our politicians are full of shit, but they believe they aren't. No, most of these idiots really do think they're doing the right thing.
They watched us step in our own footprints towards a desert-skinned Saigon. No accurate criteria to win, no proper illustration of the opposing force, no detailed battle plans beyond "take this city next." The only way you stumble into that a second time is through either complete apathy towards the 775,000 troops you've sent in over the last 20 yrs, or the desire to continue the war regardless. Either way, he is at fault for today.
 
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Outright trying to take credit of innocent Afghanis getting killed because a group like Kabul did the job that our American military could not do.

I’m sure this is not what Dwight Eisenhower envisioned when D-Day started on his watch.
 
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