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Didn’t Lee lose precisely because while he was probably the best general in the states, his tactics were rather antiquated?
The key was to throw as much men into the meat-grinder, as possible. And Grant had far more men.
Trump Enslavement Syndrome - Orange man good. /r/The_Donald and any public demonstration of rabid pro-Trump enthusiasm in spite of all reason.
- Thread starter Mr Zero
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The key was to throw as much men into the meat-grinder, as possible. And Grant had far more men.
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Lee was at his best on the defensive, or when he could delegate more offensive actions to his subordinates. Pickett’s Charge is Lee’s fault, 100%. Lee was a high priority for Lincoln’s command mostly because he was a local and because his reputation as an officer was basically unassailable. It would also have politically undermined the “abolitionist plot” narrative that a lot of the Confederate leadership was trying to use to justify attempting to create a pseudo aristocratic slave state to preserve their political influence in southern life. Lee was in charge of the forces that put down John Brown’s raid on Harpers Ferry.
As an operational and strategic planner, Lee was a gambler. The only reason he didn’t lose his entire army at Antietam was McClellan vastly overestimating his available forces - which he did consistently and would lead to his removal after a disaster of a campaign because he saw confederate armies everywhere and WITHDREW WHEN HE COULD HAVE FORCED SEVERAL MAJOR BATTLES WHERE HE HAD AN ADVANTAGE. Fucking McClellan.
Lee was very skilled, yes, but he was a gambler and bluffer without a great hand to play. His entire Gettysburg campaign was a great example of a major gamble that from the start wasn’t a great idea.
Grant consistently outmanuvered Lee. Grant was a fantastic general because he knew when to spend lives, and exactly how much to bet. Lee would go all in, and it worked out often enough, but it also could be just catastrophic - Pickett’s charge is again, a great example of this. He threw his reserves against a position he KNEW was going to be heavily defended, assuming that the enemy had to be as tired and beaten down as his own forces. Rather than fold, pull back, and accept he couldn’t break the line, he gambles and ruins his army because of it. And he KNEW that even if this gamble did work, he was basically wasting lives.
“Bloody” Grant knew how hard he could push his men and spend their lives. Shiloh is a great example, the first day? Almost a disaster. Grant though, had the ferry and naval support coming from the river. He had reinforcements incoming. So he takes the slugging from the confederates, salvages what could be a fucking complete destruction of his command and makes a defensive position that won’t be overrun without a serious fight and tells his men to rest up. The confederates decline a night attack because they’re exhausted and suddenly facing stiff resistanceAnd Grant *has* to be considering surrender or retreating after losing so many men right? With a smaller force?
Grant instead plans going on the attack.Why? His reinforcements arrive in the night, tip the balance and the enemy has no defenses prepared and has no reason to expect a counterattack is coming with artillery support from the river. Grant gives just as good as he took the last day and sends the confederate army packing. Full withdrawal. He secures what he needs to and the Union doesn’t stop advancing until he reaches the lynchpin of the entire west of the Confederacy - Vicksburg. Grant arguably wins the war in the west at Shiloh. Why? From here on out, the Union has the numerical advantage, the momentum, and their armies are fully linked up. And crucially, Grant salvages a victory from what could easily be a defeat, and makes it a victory worth the cost.
Lee? Lee really never can pull this off. Lee is a good general. Lee is easily one of the best the confederates have, especially when on the defense. Grant? Grant turns defense to attack, spends lives where they’re needed and crushes you. Clever maneuvers? Sure, Grant makes them. Are they as famous as Lee’s? No, because Grant gets a reputation as a drunken butcher instead of hands down the best operational and tactical commander in the Union.
EDIT: I want to note that Grant did bungle a bit at Shiloh by not expecting an attack and not ordering defensive works be constructed. But, Grant also was the one who ordered regular patrols, one of which did stumble onto the advancing confederates. Grant honestly is a real character in the early stages of the war in the west, and fought the second day of Shiloh on no sleep on account of having (unusually for him as he was a famously good horseman) sprained his ankle after his horse slipped and fell on him, and simply smoked a cigar out in the rain to help manage the pain. He fought the battle with a crutch, and wasn’t there for the initial stages.
On a funnier note as well because civil war history can be quite funny, does this make Mike Lindell the new General Pillow?
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- Feb 15, 2015
The usual suspects are apparently very salty over Biden's new vaccine EOs.
Biden mentioned a lot of places have a vaccine mandate, "even Fox News"... which led to this.
Biden mentioned a lot of places have a vaccine mandate, "even Fox News"... which led to this.
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My Governor is planning on trying to sue and block this, which is going pretty much nowhere.
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- Dec 28, 2014
The executive branch can condition employment on anything that isn't illegal, like any other employer. They could demand you show up in a gorilla suit and dance around like a fairy. If you don't like it you can take a hike like anywhere else.
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TherapyMan
kiwifarms.net
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Ultimately, Grant effectively utilized what was the Union's greatest advantage, which was superior manpower and resources, against the Confederates, which prior Generals like Hooker, Burnside, and especially "I Merely Failed to Win" McClellan failed to use. Grant started as a quartermaster in the Mexican-American War, which perhaps lead him to be more conscientious of supplies and resources than other generals of the time. Grant's keen pragmatism isn't as sexy as being the daring underdog with an increasingly dwindling army like Lee, but Grant was among the best generals in the war, if not the best. Grant crushed every theatre of war he occupied.
Lee was a good, borderline great general, but his cleverness has been exaggerated due to a combination of charisma, propaganda, facing mostly mediocre opponents, and his legacy as a one of the most prominent facilitators of reuniting the country from the confederate side. He wasn't even the best general of the Confederacy: that honor would likely go to Nathanial Bedford Forrest, who has a much more checkered history.
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@TherapyMan
Lee honestly would hate most (If not all) of his statues. He didn’t want any memorials to the confederacy. He didn’t want that to be his lasting legacy, as a general of a failed cause who quite honestly? Really didn’t want to fight for either side. He went with his state and I have a feeling he did regret that. He wanted to put the confederacy in the past as a footnote. The only legacy he’d probably be happy with was his long term effects on Washington College, revitalizing, expanding, and giving it recognition on a national level. The man was a very good administrator.
Lee honestly would hate most (If not all) of his statues. He didn’t want any memorials to the confederacy. He didn’t want that to be his lasting legacy, as a general of a failed cause who quite honestly? Really didn’t want to fight for either side. He went with his state and I have a feeling he did regret that. He wanted to put the confederacy in the past as a footnote. The only legacy he’d probably be happy with was his long term effects on Washington College, revitalizing, expanding, and giving it recognition on a national level. The man was a very good administrator.
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Most of the statues of Confederate generals weren't even about honoring the people who fought in the war. They were set up in the 1950s and 1960s as a middle finger to the Civil Rights Movement.
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I only ever saw genuine Confederate statues that were actually mourning the dead soldiers (on both sides) when I visited Gettysburg and Antietam. Everything else I've seen was a generic man-on-a-horse statue with a plaque bearing his name.
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9/11 is tomorrow, do you guys have any predictions on the reactions from trump supporters?
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Well Trump is commenting on a boxing match while the other living presidents are visiting the 9/11 memorials.
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- Feb 15, 2015
They're going to keep whining about the vaccine mandates, especially now that the doors are closing on them.
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They’ll talk about how Trump is the most peaceful president ever and is American Ghandi or whine about vaccines or election fraud again
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It will be interesting to see how many will really quit their jobs. I’m guessing Patriots.win is going to be exposed as a giant r/thathappened board more than it already is.
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Same things that conservatives has always said about 9/11, about how we need to be strong against the terrorists and the Democrats are selling us out.
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Virtually every large business has good COVID policies in place already. This is only going to realistically affect medium businesses (100-250 people)
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- Jul 31, 2020
I’m more concerned about next Saturday when they’re planning a DC rally in support of the rioters who are in jail.