4X Games Thread. Expand Explore Exploit Exterminate.

[eternal dog mongler]

Is the Civ I city spam anything like Imperator: Rome? In that rural tiles are absolutely useless except for the five or six strategic resources you can import anyways.

It had to do with the bonuses you got for establishing trade routes between cities. Small, shitty cities that were linked to your capital were much more useful than a city you actually tried to develop, especially in terms of research points.

So optimal gameplay was stay in Despotism, build cities every other map square and just mow over anyone who looked at you funny.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

Galactic Civilizations IV is available to pirate. Consider it... because so far it seems really... hm. I dunno. I think I like it? But I don't know. Feels like the series is on the decline. GalCiv III was alright. II was better.

 

[Bush King]

Galactic Civilizations IV is available to pirate. Consider it... because so far it seems really... hm. I dunno. I think I like it? But I don't know. Feels like the series is on the decline. GalCiv III was alright. II was better.

I'm not paying $100, especially not on Epic. Far as I'm concerned it hasn't been released. I'll buy it for $45 with the first expansion during the Steam release sale. How much has been ripped out of III content wise? I started with III, sort of played II after, but I know III was made as bare-bones supposedly to create a new, infinitely moddable platform which never happened anyway.

 

[Kane Lives]

Galactic Civilizations IV is available to pirate. Consider it... because so far it seems really... hm. I dunno. I think I like it? But I don't know. Feels like the series is on the decline. GalCiv III was alright. II was better.

Yeah, II was fun, but when I got around to playing III it lacked a certain... charm. Plus I feel like the game's system is so unnecessarily obtuse it felt like I was fighting the UI as much as the AI (which admittedly, were a cut above average).

 

[Just_Somebody]

Galactic Civilizations IV is available to pirate. Consider it... because so far it seems really... hm. I dunno. I think I like it? But I don't know. Feels like the series is on the decline. GalCiv III was alright. II was better.

I'm in the same boat here too. Got a good game with the Terrans going, but I think the biggest issue for me is movement takes so damn long.

Also, the core world/feeder concept is cool.... Except you can't control which colony feeds which core world. So if you have two excellent planets, but one's closer to the edge of the sector, that one is going to develop so incredibly slowly as colonies feed the other world.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

I'm in the same boat here too. Got a good game with the Terrans going, but I think the biggest issue for me is movement takes so damn long.

Also, the core world/feeder concept is cool.... Except you can't control which colony feeds which core world. So if you have two excellent planets, but one's closer to the edge of the sector, that one is going to develop so incredibly slowly as colonies feed the other world.

I am really enjoying the whole sector thing. It looks cool and being able to have proper choke points on such large maps is also nice. However the AI needs some work. It seems like they are coming to my sector on order to give me problems and not for any real strategic or beneficial purpose. Core and feeder planets are cool. The way tech research works is... something. You are given options to research and some choices will vanish if you pursue certain paths. Neat idea but... well, I didn't choose starbases on turn 3 and 40 turns later I would really like to research starbases... please.

@Bush King they removed a lot. The game feels very very basic for GalCiv. And yet you can very clearly see and feel GalCiv III under the new coat of paint. They are going to Paradox Games the shit out of this with DLC and expansions, I can feel it. The way the devs have been acting during the alpha/beta has upset a lot of longtime fans from what I have been reading. A lot of "the game is great we know what we are doing" being thrown around by the devs as they ignore thoughtful criticism and ban their ardent followers.

 

[Bush King]

I am really enjoying the whole sector thing. It looks cool and being able to have proper choke points on such large maps is also nice. However the AI needs some work. It seems like they are coming to my sector on order to give me problems and not for any real strategic or beneficial purpose. Core and feeder planets are cool. The way tech research works is... something. You are given options to research and some choices will vanish if you pursue certain paths. Neat idea but... well, I didn't choose starbases on turn 3 and 40 turns later I would really like to research starbases... please.

@Bush King they removed a lot. The game feels very very basic for GalCiv. And yet you can very clearly see and feel GalCiv III under the new coat of paint. They are going to Paradox Games the shit out of this with DLC and expansions, I can feel it. The way the devs have been acting during the alpha/beta has upset a lot of longtime fans from what I have been reading. A lot of "the game is great we know what we are doing" being thrown around by the devs as they ignore thoughtful criticism and ban their ardent followers.

Is the research similar to Stellaris? It doesn't lock off techs ever but it only gives you a base selection of three which constantly rotate out, even if you have 50+ able to be researched. You might want a laser upgrade then a fusion reactor upgrade to power it but nope! Wait two more techs for it to pop up again. Stellaris is love/hate, lots of nice stuff, then shit like that makes you realise they are unironically making grand strategy games for Xbox now

Banning forum members works (now anyway) for Paradox because they have a massive audience elsewhere. Interesting strategy for tiny Stardock. Small reprieve that talking about how Drengin eat people won't get you banned yet I guess.

 

[Kane Lives]

Is the research similar to Stellaris? It doesn't lock off techs ever but it only gives you a base selection of three which constantly rotate out, even if you have 50+ able to be researched. You might want a laser upgrade then a fusion reactor upgrade to power it but nope! Wait two more techs for it to pop up again. Stellaris is love/hate, lots of nice stuff, then shit like that makes you realise they are unironically making grand strategy games for Xbox now

Banning forum members works (now anyway) for Paradox because they have a massive audience elsewhere. Interesting strategy for tiny Stardock. Small reprieve that talking about how Drengin eat people won't get you banned yet I guess.

Why are devs so enamoured with this random tech unlocking thing? It makes individual games frustrating if you happen to not roll the tech you need RIGHT NOW. This isn't a rogue-like, fuck off with this tech RNG from my strategy games.

(Although I am partial to how SOTS did it. The tech tree is static and certain techs are always available. Then depending on the race, you may also get a chance to have additional tech unlocked down a certain category. It's suitably random while guaranteeing you wont be screwed out of key techs.)

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Galactic Civilizations IV is available to pirate. Consider it... because so far it seems really... hm. I dunno. I think I like it? But I don't know. Feels like the series is on the decline. GalCiv III was alright. II was better.

II was fun as long as you resisted exploiting the AI, like waiting for someone to declare war on a minor civ and then gifting the minor civ half your ships like you're arming the mujahideen

 

[Stoneheart]

Is the research similar to Stellaris? It doesn't lock off techs ever but it only gives you a base selection of three which constantly rotate out, even if you have 50+ able to be researched. You might want a laser upgrade then a fusion reactor upgrade to power it but nope! Wait two more techs for it to pop up again. Stellaris is love/hate, lots of nice stuff, then shit like that makes you realise they are unironically making grand strategy games for Xbox now

you might want something, but its not a bad design that you cant always get what you want.

 

[Bush King]

you might want something, but its not a bad design that you cant always get what you want.

That's fine, but it completely fucks the gameplay. If I'm a dumb ass swarm trying to devour the galaxy, I don't want anything to do with the ten +5% research techs or trade companies, I want weapons and engines. I have to hyperfocus to stay relevant. Instead, I'm forced to generalise and not play to my strengths because the RNG decided in it's infinite wisdom I needed to unlock three more techs that boost edicts I never use.

It's fine if they want to simulate how technology IRL isn't a streamlined tree, but then have it give you a set of randomised technologies where you can choose which area to fund more than others (and have lasers be a random result of finding crystals or something).

 

[Stoneheart]

That's fine, but it completely fucks the gameplay. If I'm a dumb ass swarm trying to devour the galaxy, I don't want anything to do with the ten +5% research techs or trade companies, I want weapons and engines. I have to hyperfocus to stay relevant. Instead, I'm forced to generalise and not play to my strengths because the RNG decided in it's infinite wisdom I needed to unlock three more techs that boost edicts I never use.

just bump up the number of alternatives you have.

 

[Dammit Mandrake!]

You can reroll your tech options and incur a penalty of 10% longer research time on whatever you end up choosing. So it isn't terrible. I don't hate the tech setup but I don't love it. But the limiting factors it creates are appealing to me.

 

[Shining Wit]

Yes and no, the AI has never been great in any 4X game outside of maybe GalCiv. You cannot program a strategical process for it, only immediate reactionary options. It just comes out more in VI because of things like 1UPT. The AI in IV can seem very cunning at times but it helps that they can doomstack and don't have fifty units backed up halfway across the map because of mountains and choke-points.

I think the civ AI could be improved if it felt like they were focused on goals. Like wiping an initial wave of units out, often their military is just non-existant as you waltz in, while they desperately rush Macchu Picchu.
Maybe have a bunch of set paths to follow based on their goals like science rush, wonder rush, defensive war, offensive war. You'll never get a perfect recreation of a human that can adapt on the fly but having the computer recognise the situation changing and running a different built in tactic would massively improve it

Also, somehow make them learn to use naval units, in aquatic maps you have more danger from bandit Quadriremes than enemy civs

 

[Breadbassket]

Thoughts on the Dominions series? It seems like an underrated set of 4X games.

 

[Bush King]

just bump up the number of alternatives you have.

Still requires wasting two years on a tech slot when I'm in the middle of war and need better weapons.

 

[Kane Lives]

Thoughts on the Dominions series? It seems like an underrated set of 4X games.

Incredibly autistic, incredibly thematic and incredibly broken. It's one of a kind and I encourage everyone to give it a try.

Very fun if you like roleplaying as literal gods slinging shit across the fields but the dated interface and unnecessary micro pretty much holds it back.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Very fun if you like roleplaying as literal gods slinging shit across the fields but the dated interface and unnecessary micro pretty much holds it back.

The weird thing is that it's not the number of clicks for the micro itself, it's remembering everything you need to be doing during the hour-long lategame turns. Site searching, equipping your researchers, summoning, scripting your army, swapping gems around, etc. Even most veteran Dominions players will start to give up because it gets exhausting.

This is unfortunate because late-game blood magic nations are hilarious, but most players will just give you the win once you've got vampires going (it's a feedback loop where you can summon vampires to look for blood slaves that you can use to summon more vampires.)

Thankfully you can still beat up on the AI with very little micro (it's dumb) so you can check out a bunch of late-game stuff, but playing against other players is more fun.

 

[Spunt]

Going back to Civ5 again as a result of this thread. I read Sulla's criticisms of it, and they're valid, but I think he plays Civ games for different reasons than I do. He's a systems and ultra-high difficulty guy, whereas I prefer immersion and roleplay, and Civ5 kicks Civ6's ass in that respect because you don't have to play optimally to beat the AI, you can do wacky builds and have gimmick strategies - today I will be play mercantile empire, tomorrow I will play an all-conquering horse horde, I can play tall, I can play wide, whatever. Civ6 punishes you for specialising and there'a a very clear optimal way to play - you have 7 cities, each with a different advisor and specialising in something else. The systems lead to absurd things, like building military units you don't need to avoid penalties to researching key techs. It's a board game, it's all systems and optimal play and all the Civs feel the same to play (except the ludicrously overpowered Aztecs). It's clearly a very good game if you're Sulla and play it only for the challenge, but it's not pretending to make you feel like you're running a real empire any more. Ripping Civs out of the base Civ5 and selling them back to you as DLC pissed me off too.

I just got Before We Leave on sale. Looks like a lot of fun, a hybrid 4x/Citybuilder without combat, just production chains, trade and diplomacy. I like slow-paced, chill games like the early Settlers games so this might scratch my itch.

I'd also recommend Songs of Syx. It's an early access game that's made by just one dude. It's a weird citybuilder/4x/Total War game where you build a city state then raise armies to conquer your neighbours and make them hand over their resources to you. Ngl, it's the ugliest game I've ever played and has a horrible interface, but the depth of the mechanics is incredible, at least in the city-building mode. The strategic mode is a bit light on things to do and the battles are basic AF (he only just introduced ranged units in the last update) but future updates are due to work on the combat.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

He's a systems and ultra-high difficulty guy, whereas I prefer immersion and roleplay, and Civ5 kicks Civ6's ass in that respect because you don't have to play optimally to beat the AI, you can do wacky builds and have gimmick strategies - today I will be play mercantile empire, tomorrow I will play an all-conquering horse horde, I can play tall, I can play wide, whatever

Yeah, I've always thought 4X games should basically just have two difficulty modes. One where the AI plays optimally and the other where it's just fucking around.

The fan-made AI Growth mod for SMAC is in the former territory. They'll look at their huge cheaty resource bonuses on Transcend and just go Fundamentalist/Planned/Power (aka the full militaristic social engineering options) and grind you into dust. Is that fun? I don't know. I prefer fucking around while playing 4X games usually.