Addiction - drugs, booze, pills, whatever

[melty]

It might be bullshit for you but plenty people seemed to have gotten satisfaction from it. Some people attend meetings in order to learn how to "move the fuck on". Lot of them never grew up past the point they started drinking/using and needed to spend time with people who have actual experience dealing with the day to day issues of addiction. Not a doctor, not a family member who means well and will do anything for you but has never lived that life, but an actual person who survived it and can maybe show you a few ways to deal with that part of it and convince you to stay clean another few days, maybe just a day if you're just starting out.

You seem to be implying that drugs that get you over the DT's and some therapy is all that lifestyle is about. You're an alcoholic, you know that there is more to it. What about when you start feeling better? What's to stop you from going to get on that dope again? Therapy is just fine, its a good step to take. Maybe there will be a real live recovering addict as a counselor who can help you out with your issues, though he will probably just tell you to go get in some AA/NA meetings and get a sponsor before you come back to see him lol.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
I can't find the study, but AA ranks very, very low in the most effective treatments available. It's a holdover from the 30s when people didn't understand addiction as they do now.
Talking to people is fine. Having a sponsor isn't a bad idea. What's wrong is when it's the first thing people are told to turn to or when you are ordered by a court to go to AA (I have not personally been through this because I don't drive drunk). iirc AA has an efficacy rate of about 12%, while drugs for addiction combined with modern therapy are more like 70% or higher.

 

[Mesh Gear Fox]

You could very well live 50 more years nursing that dope habit which has ceased to give you any pleasure but you have to do lines to feel normal, or as a quadriplegic after a drunk driving accident where bleeding hearts refuse to let you die no matter how much you want to because it's against God's plan.

God damn, calm down. I never said I was a full blown junkie. I smoke cigarettes, drink and use drugs probably more than I should, don't really excersice as much as I should, and eat pretty much anything that tastes good. I am gainfully employed and meet all my obligations. All I was going for is that I'm against this "you have to be healthy!!" shit that gets shoved down my throat. Yeah these things definitely not great but I do them anyways. Geez...

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

Holy crap. I saw this thread around noon and meant to respond to a few things, but so much more was said after that.

(I don't give a shit if I make a lolcow out of myself. I'm terrified of becoming what my aunt was.

Lolcows typically lack self-awareness and the desire to improve. You seem to have a fair amount of both.

That's rough, OP. As long as you learn from their mistakes and have the conviction not to go down the same path, chances are you'll do much better.

A friend of mine who was pretty hardcore at an young age told me back then: drugs are not the issue, the issue is whatever keeps brining you back into drugs. May sound cheap but it's so true.

Also a lot of illegal drugs out there are infinitely safer than tobacco and alcohol, in the least as far as addiction goes. Mushrooms and ganja, for example.

I just wanted to endorse this one. Excellent comment.

But you can't claim it's scientific or even that it's secular when every damn meeting begins and ends with a prayer.

Depends on the meeting and part of the world it's in. My understanding is the prayers (or at least the one at the end, the Lord's Prayer) don't generally happen outside of America, and it happens less in the more liberal parts of America. In the Southeast they're rather ubiquitous. Some meetings opt not to have that prayer at the end, or at all. There are a few but growing number of so-called "We Agnostics" meetings which are completely secular and prayerless.

I called a local chemical dependency center because I was having withdrawal symptoms if I didn't drink for several hours. I wanted to see a doctor for tapering advice and to possibly renew my naltrexone prescription because I'm kind of going off the rails for it.

I have constant health issues. my stomach hurts all the time. I shake when I wake up. sometimes I puke for no good reason.

I strongly recommend you forget about naltrexone and tapering and check yourself into a psychiatric hospital for detoxification. You obviously are incapable of weening yourself off of it, and if you tried or went cold turkey, you're at risk of delirium tremens. Many people who get that die from seizures or heart attacks. If you're inpatient they'll keep you from alcohol and sedate you at least enough to prevent DTs and seizures.

I worry constantly about getting fired.

That's a very reasonable fear. I suspect you're close to it already. You better go for recovery full throttle now and salvage what you have before you have no income or insurance to rely on.

AA though, I don't understand why anyone would talk shit about an organization that gets people together to socialize, get's them to do some self-reflection, and condone's sobriety. I don't have any strong feelings for them one way or the other, but calling them a cult is pretty fucking silly

What you say is very true. It is a very nurturing and supportive place, and various traits which would take too much space to adequately articulate. The problem is, AA as a whole, doctrinally, is extremely inflexible and arrogant. The literature is very condescending to atheists and non-deists, and professes to be the only realistic path to recovery for the vast majority of people. This causes a great part of its membership to also be anti-atheist and anti-other than 12 Step. They are on the path to obscurity and irrelevance, and that's a damn shame.

Also, I do agree they're not a cult, but they very much come across like one to an untrained observer.

Maybe there will be a real live recovering addict as a counselor who can help you out with your issues, though he will probably just tell you to go get in some AA/NA meetings and get a sponsor before you come back to see him lol.

I really hope not. A lot of counselors are useless or worse, but they're not supposed to refuse to see someone who doesn't attend 12 Step meetings for whatever reasons, or act condescendingly to them.

 

[melty]

Like I said, I am getting help soon. I did an inpatient thing before, it was pretty helpful, but I really, really don't have time for it right now :/ if it's essential than idk.
Naltrexone literally cuts my drinking in half. "Half" is still not a healthy amount but it's much, much better, so in that sense I find it extremely valuable.
It seems like what you guys like about AA is the group therapy aspect? If that's the case, I can agree with that; one of the most helpful things I found about inpatient were group sessions. But you can go to non-AA group sessions, you know.

It is a very nurturing and supportive place, and various traits which would take too much space to adequately articulate.

is basically my experience with a non-AA group.

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

Like I said, I am getting help soon. I did an inpatient thing before, it was pretty helpful, but I really, really don't have time for it right now :/

Sounds like you're currently spending a lot of time and stamina drinking, recovering, and trying to find help for it.

Naltrexone literally cuts my drinking in half.

At the risk of sounding preachy, it needs to be cut to zero. Half is not close to enough, though I'm not advocating you give up on the Sinclair Method.

It seems like what you guys like about AA is the group therapy aspect? If that's the case, I can agree with that; one of the most helpful things I found about inpatient were group sessions.

I wouldn't equivocate AA meetings with group psychotherapy. There is indeed therapeutic value in being able to voice one's own experiences and beliefs to a group of people, but it's quite different from group psychotherapy in some ways.

But you can go to non-AA group sessions, you know.

Oh, yes, of course. SMART meetings are more similar to actual psychotherapy groups and their doctrine is rooted in a form of CBT. There are a couple of other non-12 step organizations as well, and there are also the secular AA meetings which are being more rapidly proliferated these days. The regular AA meetings are also very varied. People generally have options.

 

[Caesare]

You're not forced to pray at church either, but at the end

Unfortunately that's all too common.

A small portion of people are actually helped by AA. But most people aren't, and this is specifically because of deficiencies in AA's approach. AA is a lot like abstinence-only sexual education. If anyone is looking for help with their drinking, harm reduction programs like HAMS are much, much more effective.

Only thing I really want to say this morning is that nowhere in any group will they tell you to be abstinent only or say that their method and approach is the only method. You wouldn't know this unless you have experience with the actual organization and its members.

The internet, being what it is, naturally is going to bring out the most antisocial and radical members of the antis and the pros of the AA/NA argument. This is one way to find out what the diehards are saying, but I'd say that what you read online from those people probably accounts for maybe 1% or so of people with addiction experience or AA/NA experience. I don't have any hard numbers, this is just my opinion from experience with most things you read about online as opposed to the reality of the situation. You know how that goes, its just never that serious in real life.



↑
You're not forced to pray at church either, but at the end of the day, church is still a religious organization. The claim that AA is not religious is false.

Its methods are ineffective yet people keep recommending it over much more effective treatments. I say this as an unbiased outsider who's never had to attend AA. I've just looked into the subject online and I've found the clash between what AA proponents say and the reality of the situation shocking.

AA has the same problem that all cults have, really, in that most people aren't persuaded by its teachings, but the people who have been persuaded turn into devout recruiters. It gives people an inflated view of AA and its efficacy.
Click to expand...

The reason that this doesn't fly is due to the fact that AA/NA recruiters aren't doing so for any kind of monetary gain. Having people in their organization does absolutely nothing for them besides possibly give them a good feeling for helping someone else.

Someone said, I think @melty that other programs can "cure" 70% of addictions/alcoholics whereas AA/NA sometimes "cures" 12% To this I say fucking awesome. If any method can "cure" this, and has stats backing it up, I say that this is a good thing. Even if a method only can "cure" 2% of its followers, that's still a good thing. The ones who weren't "cured" might have a better understanding of themselves and their problems even if they are still doing wrong. Maybe down the line they will find the method that works for them.

Any positive numbers are good. Now if you came in here and told me that because of AA/NA, that people were turning to drinking/shooting dope, lol, first I'd probably call you a liar, then I'd have to really think about the situation and my opinion on it because that would be some shit lol.

As long as the numbers are positive, and heck, if AA/NA is responsible for "curing" 10% or more that is fucking incredible. It's doesn't cost a penny. That's why the courts recommend that along with other treatments for alcoholics/addicts because its free to them. They can tell you that you need an impatient treatment and you are going to have to wait for that if you don't have the money/insurance for room to open up. Their sure is a lot of alcoholics/addicts out there that have insurance. If you don't even have a pot to piss in, you aren't going to get preferential treatment because your problem is worse. They're going to accept the paid people first. What we have to say about this doesn't matter because that is going to be the reality of the situation.

You know how they say "you get what you pay for"? That's going to be the case for most things. A treatment center that costs a lot of money with doctors, nurses, and counselors is probably going to work better. Like I said, I'm not a diehard, I know this much. But when you stop paying them, the treatment stops.

They can put you on a great path and they should, they are being paid well to. Once all is said and done, the choice to remain sober falls into the hands of the individual, not the paid group or the unpaid group.

A lot of people find it easier, cheaper, more accessible, and less restrictive to use what they learned in that expensive treatment center and supplement it with AA/NA meetings. They help people stay on the right track, that is a fact. If you aren't getting what you need out of a meeting than find another meeting. You know that they all aren't going to be the same.

It's just like doctors. If you don't like your doctor you aren't going to keep going to him, you are gonna find a new one. Same principle with this.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

As a fairly new smoker of tobacco (not cigarettes, pipes and cigars sometimes), I always wonder if I'm smoking because it's a subconscious need, or because I really enjoy the process.

It's a bit of an existential or epistemological quandary, I guess, and it makes you second-guess your own brain. It certainly makes me second-guess myself. Am I actually getting pleasure from smoking or is it just my brain telling me I am getting pleasure because of some chemical reaction bullshit?

I don't feel "cravings" nor do I suffer from not smoking days at a time... but I do like to smoke and if it's not too much hassle, I will do it once or rarely twice a day. However, sometimes I just can't be bothered to. I guess it's not much of an addiction if you can say "man, putting on pants and shoes is too much work, fuck it".

 

[Marvin]

Only thing I really want to say this morning is that nowhere in any group will they tell you to be abstinent only or say that their method and approach is the only method.

AA's methodology says you must be abstinent. Drinking is entirely out of your control, which is why you must seek a higher power, and any drinking will set you right back to being an alcoholic. One drink, one drunk. It's been observed that AA might indirectly cause high rates of binge drinking in its dropouts. "Welp, I had a drink, might as well go whole hog."

When people do fail with AA, they put the blame on the individual for not sticking to the party line closely enough, instead of investigating flaws in AA's methodology.

You wouldn't know this unless you have experience with the actual organization and its members.

Pfft, that's nonsense. That's like saying I can't criticize the government unless I work in the government.

The internet, being what it is, naturally is going to bring out the most antisocial and radical members of the antis and the pros of the AA/NA argument. This is one way to find out what the diehards are saying, but I'd say that what you read online from those people probably accounts for maybe 1% or so of people with addiction experience or AA/NA experience. I don't have any hard numbers, this is just my opinion from experience with most things you read about online as opposed to the reality of the situation. You know how that goes, its just never that serious in real life.

No, I'm talking about stats, not stories. Experience is a terrible source because it's saturated with bias.

The reason that this doesn't fly is due to the fact that AA/NA recruiters aren't doing so for any kind of monetary gain. Having people in their organization does absolutely nothing for them besides possibly give them a good feeling for helping someone else.

Same thing with a cult. Cult members aren't doing it for any sort of monetary bias. Only the higher ups cash out. The lower level recruiters have just drank the koolade.

Someone said, I think @melty that other programs can "cure" 70% of addictions/alcoholics whereas AA/NA sometimes "cures" 12% To this I say fucking awesome. If any method can "cure" this, and has stats backing it up, I say that this is a good thing. Even if a method only can "cure" 2% of its followers, that's still a good thing. The ones who weren't "cured" might have a better understanding of themselves and their problems even if they are still doing wrong. Maybe down the line they will find the method that works for them.

The problem is that AA is being recommended in lieu of effective treatments.

That's why the courts recommend that along with other treatments for alcoholics/addicts because its free to them. They can tell you that you need an impatient treatment and you are going to have to wait for that if you don't have the money/insurance for room to open up.

But they don't. There actually exist free treatments that work. Like HAMS, like I mentioned above. But frequently AA is the only free option mentioned, and that's terrible.

Like @melty mentioned, AA was developed back when addiction science was woefully underdeveloped. It's essentially superstition applied to a societal problem. Its continued popularity is because of its dedicated adherents, and general ignorance about the subject among people. It's basically a pop culture phenomenon among addicts (and the families of addicts, and the courts/legal system).

 

[Caesare]

Pfft, that's nonsense. That's like saying I can't criticize the government unless I work in the government.

When did I say you couldn't criticize? I'm just saying you wouldn't understand the situation unless you've been there. That's just life. You can read about it all you want, study it, quote people. You can be a counselor with a good education and still not understand what motivates people until you start working it.

That's not saying the counselors have to come from a place of having these fuckups, but that is why schools do make nurses and counselors attend AA/NA meetings and investigate the situation, its not all books and stats, they want the students to have actual experience dealing with people and their problems.

I've been saying since the beginning, the ONLY reason why courts recommend AA/NA is because its free. They tell people who suffer from addiction and alcoholism who are currently in the throes of their addiction to get in inpatient rehab. They don't say go sit in some meetings lol.

If you think a cult recruiter isn't getting anything from recruiting that is quite naive. The higher ups are going to toss them a bone if they are getting members and their money. This isn't even existent with anything in AA/NA because there is no money. It's all people trying to help people. They will tell you to read the literature and work the system, it worked for some of them, so they promote it.

If that doesn't work for you, though, none of them are going to be unhappy about it, if they are, you are just around a bad group. Like anything else you will have this. You have to find a good group of people to be around.


And again, we can talk about what is good and what is right all day. It's not going to make it real. We can bitch or we can offer alternatives. I'm saying that AA/NA isn't superstition, its much too basic for that. All it does is get problematic people to try and get out and socialize with their peers. Have some introspection, meet people, make connections. Nothing bad is going to come out of this.

Even if it only works for 1 out of 10 people as a end all means to stop drinking/getting loaded, that's pretty goddamn good.

 

[The Janitor]

I mentioned this in the "Food Allergies" thread, but this is also a decent place to talk about it:

I'm sensitive to Wheat, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Dairy, and Soy. I won't go over what happens with each one. I already did in detail over on the other thread.

The reason why I bring these up is because it's lead to a food addiction. Now, I'm not scary-fat (I'm about 20 lbs over what the charts recommend in regards to BMI), but I'm not the poster-child for the paleo diet either (I legit can't do the paleo diet because of how restrictive it is). Add on that I have a family history of addiction, and it's turned rather ordinary snacks like donuts, candy, cake, etc. into a literal drug for me. The worst part? Said drug isn't illegal, and is pushed down our throats as American citizens.

 

[Marvin]

When did I say you couldn't criticize? I'm just saying you wouldn't understand the situation unless you've been there.

That's a distinction without a difference. You're saying that my criticism is invalid unless I've been there. So, OK, I'll be more clear: you're right, it's not that I can't criticize, just that my criticisms allegedly have no validity, immediately out of the gate.

I've been saying since the beginning, the ONLY reason why courts recommend AA/NA is because its free.

There are other free programs that are effective.

If you think a cult recruiter isn't getting anything from recruiting that is quite naive. The higher ups are going to toss them a bone if they are getting members and their money. This isn't even existent with anything in AA/NA because there is no money.

Ok, then how about the Jehovah's witnesses. Or Mormons. Or any group that proselytizes. I think it's more naive to think that money is the only motivation people have. That when you remove money, you remove bias. That simply isn't true.

It's all people trying to help people. They will tell you to read the literature and work the system, it worked for some of them, so they promote it.

Oh, I know it works for some people. But other things work a lot more reliably, for more people. We shouldn't let AA proponents dominate the conversation, when all evidence shows that it's really quite ineffective most of the time.

My whole point is that the bias regarding AA is that individuals get blamed for AA's failure, but the system gets praised for its successes. When it does work for someone, they frequently become ardent promoters. Everyone knows someone whose uncle or cousin was helped by AA, so they spread it. But the failures don't really speak up. You haven't acknowledged this point.

Twelve step programs are treated as the standard by society. That's a serious problem.

And again, we can talk about what is good and what is right all day. It's not going to make it real. We can bitch or we can offer alternatives.

Like I said, there are indeed alternatives, like HAMS.

 

[Caesare]

Lol @Marvin, you're not saying anything bad, I can't get mad at ya.

The only reason AA/NA dominate the discussion is because its most likely the first big one. People trust it for those reasons, including the court systems. But regardless of what their online literature says, which I'm sure you've read up on thoroughly, as well as the chatroom discussions with the proponents and enemies of it, which I'm sure you've taken part in: they don't actually follow their own rules very well, if abstinence only is what it says then I'm sure you're correct about that.

Every group I've ever taken part in will recommend something besides AA/NA to someone that is still in the active throes of their addiction. They might even say that AA/NA isn't for you. No cult or evangelical church is ever going to tell a prospect that their alternative lifestyle/church isn't for them. Naturally there are other things besides money in this world, but what motivates the majority of people most of the time? That's right.

All I'm saying is that no one treatment works for everyone. It generally takes multiple at the same time and even doing that isn't foolproof. Most people don't get over their problem, sadly enough.

What I'm saying is that all these programs and more are needed, and they still won't be enough. AA/NA is one option that should be taken with several others and is a most affordable option because it costs nothing but a little bit of time.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Naturally there are other things besides money in this world, but what motivates the majority of people most of the time? That's right.

Being right. That motivates people more than money every time.

 

[Bethari]

Everything physically enjoyable erodes your physical health.

Not sure if I can agree with you there. There are lots of things that can be good for you that feel good as well, such as talking with friends, exercise, and, if you stick with it long enough, eating healthy. A lot of these, though, take time to become enjoyable. For what it's worth, it can be really hard to do these things while dealing with other stressful parts of life.

 

[Male Idiot]

Not sure if I can agree with you there. There are lots of things that can be good for you that feel good as well, such as talking with friends, exercise, and, if you stick with it long enough, eating healthy. A lot of these, though, take time to become enjoyable. For what it's worth, it can be really hard to do these things while dealing with other stressful parts of life.

Exercise and eating healthy feeling good? What type of crack are you smoking man, I want to smoke two kilos of it.

 

[Bethari]

Exxercise and eating healthy feeling good? What type of crack are you smoking man, I want to smoke two kilos of it.

I know it's not a scientific paper, but here's a few sources that report that exercise can help alleviate depression:
WebMD
How Stuff Works
Scientific American
Anecdotally, (although it's worth absolutely nothing) every psychiatrist I've had has told me that exercise makes you feel better. As for eating healthier, you get used to certain types of foods the more you eat them.
EDIT: Anyway, sorry, didn't mean to fftopic:

 

[Male Idiot]

Hey it could be true, it may take your mind of depression. But since I'm not depressed, medically speaking, it doesn't really help anymore!

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

I've been saying since the beginning, the ONLY reason why courts recommend AA/NA is because its free.

I suspect the two reasons the courts routinely recommend 12 Step meetings besides the one you listed are:

1.) The American psych profession heavily endorses this as the primary method of aftercare after rehab.
2.) It's very often the only such program available. The number of non-12 Step meetings are miniscule compared to 12 Step, especially AA. To put this in perspective, SMART Recovery might by now have something around 1,100 face-to-face meetings per week throughout the world (many of them not open to everyone). AA has approx. 1,100 meetings per week in the Metro Atlanta area.

And again, we can talk about what is good and what is right all day. It's not going to make it real. We can bitch or we can offer alternatives. I'm saying that AA/NA isn't superstition, its much too basic for that. All it does is get problematic people to try and get out and socialize with their peers. Have some introspection, meet people, make connections. Nothing bad is going to come out of this.

I would postulate that deism in general is superstitious, and that generally is the mode of recovery in 12 Step programs. While people are allowed to be atheists or otherwise non-deistic and to use something besides God as their "Higher Power", in AA especially, there is a great level of disdain for that methodology. It is also true that AA brings people together and facilitates socialization, and this is invaluable for certain people. However, that's counterbalanced when someone who doesn't use God as their HP repeatedly hears from literature and from people in meetings that non-deism is bad, and self-reliance is bad. AA and other 12 Step programs inadvertently does a fair amount of harm to these people despite its many redeeming qualities. There are some We Agnostic meetings now, but probably most of those who are atheists and who have/had drinking problems have already left AA because they were fed up with all of that arrogance.

There are other free programs that are effective.

They're very uncommon relative to AA/12 Step, at least in America. There might be a few SMART meetings if one lives in or near a city, maybe one or two LifeRing or SOS meetings. The online equivalents are pretty few in number, too.

What so many people actually don't realize is, some don't need any intervention at all and just on their own elect to stop. They have greater self-awareness and emotional intelligence, and they stop relatively early on. Many more will use some program for support for a while, but either leave entirely or downgrade their involvement and not really need it to stay sober.

Oh, I know it works for some people. But other things work a lot more reliably, for more people. We shouldn't let AA proponents dominate the conversation, when all evidence shows that it's really quite ineffective most of the time.

My whole point is that the bias regarding AA is that individuals get blamed for AA's failure, but the system gets praised for its successes.

Heh, sounds exactly like traditional Judeo-Christian deism, and the deism often espoused in AA. If someone has hardships, it's the person's fault ultimately. If someone has a success, God is to be thanked for it. Far too many in AA have similar views about alcoholism and 12 Step success rates. If AA doesn't work for someone, they weren't honest enough and didn't try the program fervently enough.

Like I said, there are indeed alternatives, like HAMS.

I actually had never heard of this one, and intend to peruse their site when I have some free moments. I will say, for those who are bona fide alcoholics/addicts, anything short of total abstinence is not feasible.

They might even say that AA/NA isn't for you. No cult or evangelical church is ever going to tell a prospect that their alternative lifestyle/church isn't for them.

The ones who are more enlightened on the subject will indeed tell someone that. I am not familiar with the core literature of the other 12 Step fellowships, but, the literature and dogma of AA clearly espouses the belief there is no other viable way besides a "spiritual solution" (i.e., 12 Steps and God) for virtually everyone. Those who recover through other methods are virtually non-existent. This is why so many people are fed up with AA. They're like the Catholic Church: they refuse to modernize or adapt to new information.

 

[meatslab]

I know it's not a scientific paper, but here's a few sources that report that exercise can help alleviate depression:
WebMD
How Stuff Works
Scientific American
Anecdotally, (although it's worth absolutely nothing) every psychiatrist I've had has told me that exercise makes you feel better. As for eating healthier, you get used to certain types of foods the more you eat them.
EDIT: Anyway, sorry, didn't mean to fftopic:

This is absolutely true. Exercise makes your brain release certain chemicals that make you feel good. The more you exercise the more your brain chemistry changes for the better. Another thing it does is make you have more energy all the time, which fatigue is a big problem for people with depression. Some have it so bad and are so fatigued they don't even get out of bed. Exercise also releases chemicals that keeps you from wanting to eat all the time. So keeping yourself from binge eating your sadness away would be good for anyone.

Eating right makes your cells healthier so your body functions regularly. That and eating and cooking at certain times helps with putting people who's lives are in total chaos establish a better routine and gives them a step towards structure.

This absolutely ties into addiction because addicts often have depression and a chaotic life. They need structure and routine and normality.

 

[Marvin]

Not sure if I can agree with you there. There are lots of things that can be good for you that feel good as well, such as talking with friends, exercise, and, if you stick with it long enough, eating healthy. A lot of these, though, take time to become enjoyable. For what it's worth, it can be really hard to do these things while dealing with other stressful parts of life.

Well, I'm talking physical pleasures. Real base ones, like eating, doing drugs, fucking, etc. And with eating, I am emphasizing fat, salt and sugar. Again, really base, addictive pleasures. There's an incentive to consume more and more, hence obesity.

While it's true dopamine gets released when you exercise, it's not a very accessible source of pleasure for most people. Boredom is a big disincentive for exercising. It's probably the primary disincentive keeping most people from exercising regularly.