Addiction - drugs, booze, pills, whatever

[Male Idiot]

What Marvin said. And joint pain, back pain, muscle pain, heart pain....

 

[bacterium]

Like I said, I am getting help soon. I did an inpatient thing before, it was pretty helpful, but I really, really don't have time for it right now :/ if it's essential than idk.
Naltrexone literally cuts my drinking in half. "Half" is still not a healthy amount but it's much, much better, so in that sense I find it extremely valuable.
It seems like what you guys like about AA is the group therapy aspect? If that's the case, I can agree with that; one of the most helpful things I found about inpatient were group sessions. But you can go to non-AA group sessions, you know.

is basically my experience with a non-AA group.

Naltrexone is shit from what I have heard. It increases tolerance, so people drink more to get drunk and thus there is a better chance of OD'ing.

Look into acamprosate, instead.

 

[melty]

Naltrexone is shit from what I have heard. It increases tolerance, so people drink more to get drunk and thus there is a better chance of OD'ing.

Look into acamprosate, instead.

That doesn't seem right- from what I recall it's supposed to decrease tolerance and that's definitely been my experience. ~3 weeks ago my subscription ran out and my drinking immediately went off the the scale so i'd say that's decent evidence as well.

 

[bacterium]

That doesn't seem right- from what I recall it's supposed to decrease tolerance and that's definitely been my experience. ~3 weeks ago my subscription ran out and my drinking immediately went off the the scale so i'd say that's decent evidence as well.

I've never used naltrexone, so my comments are all third party, but I haven't heard good things about it. Having said that, it must work for some people, or it wouldn't be prescribed. If it does work for you, that's great.

But I would still recommend looking into acamprosate (camprol I think?). It reduces cravings, and if you do drink, it tends to be much less.

Best of luck to you. You can do it

 

[Caesare]

Heh, sounds exactly like traditional Judeo-Christian deism, and the deism often espoused in AA. If someone has hardships, it's the person's fault ultimately. If someone has a success, God is to be thanked for it. Far too many in AA have similar views about alcoholism and 12 Step success rates. If AA doesn't work for someone, they weren't honest enough and didn't try the program fervently enough.

You said a lot here, I'll probably respond in more detail later on but I wanted to say that I think you are confusing the steps for the actual fellowship of the AA/NA meeting. Yes, the very first step is to admit you are powerless to your addiction. The second step is believing that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

So in a way, if you want that "power greater than ourselves" that the 2nd step describes to be God, it certainly will become a religious experience for you. I don't want to get into all that right now, too damn early, but AA/NA isn't telling people that their own hard work and struggles aren't their own, that it's all "God's will".

They actually make a really big deal about people's struggle getting straight. They hand out "tokens" in their meetings for people who have been sober for so long. There are 24 hour tokens, a week, 2 weeks, month, year, multiple years, etc. When people get these tokens, there is applause, pats on the back, encouraging words, etc. They don't stop the person and tell them to get down on one knee and thank God for "allowing" them to stay clean. I don't know where you are getting that from.

Yes, a lot of people do "put it all in God's hands" if they so choose, when trying to deal with hardships in life. This happens in AA/NA as well, but that is such a small part of it for these people. The main thing about it is the connections people make with their peers, the therapeutic element of meditation, prayer, and venting your frustration to a completely open and nonjudgmental group who exist outside of your normal circle. A lot of alcoholics/addicts turn into isolated people, so just getting them to break that habit of being isolated and getting them outside the house is a good thing that I'm sure a lot of them would normally avoid.

Thus far, everything written in this thread have been things that I've heard in AA/NA meetings from the most dedicated participates. These are the people who were forced to attend for a variety of reasons, were miserable in them, made it very known just how miserable they were, and basically talked bad about every aspect of AA/NA no matter how benign.

Eventually, instead of trying to do it on their own terms, something occurred in their lives which made them try it differently and take the advice of the program. These are the ones who've had the most success.

I am not one of these people lol, though I have been around addicts all my life and I know how sick and miserable they are and how sick they make everyone around them. Every comment here (for the most part) has been badmouthing AA/NA or knocking them in favor of some alternative method.

I'll not only stick up for AA/NA, but I'll stick up for and promote any and all methods that give alcoholics and addicts satisfaction because I've seen how bad it gets for them. I don't think having a lot of options for addicts seeking help is a bad thing.

 

[Bethari]

Yes, the very first step is to admit you are powerless to your addiction.

I think that part of AA is off-putting for many people. It's hard to try to change something if you think you have no control over it.

I am not one of these people lol, though I have been around addicts all my life and I know how sick and miserable they are and how sick they make everyone around them. I'll not only stick up for AA/NA, but I'll stick up for and promote any and all methods that give alcoholics and addicts satisfaction because I've seen how bad it gets for them. I don't think having a lot of options for addicts seeking help is a bad thing.

I agree with having lots of options. It's just that in America, it seems like it's the only option for people who are struggling. And it doesn't work for everybody.

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

Naltrexone is shit from what I have heard. It increases tolerance, so people drink more to get drunk and thus there is a better chance of OD'ing.

I'm not very familiar with the various pharmaceutical remedies for alcoholism, but I've never heard that about naltrexone. Also, it doesn't increase tolerance so much as decrease the brain's response to booze. It is supposed to turn off what causes alcoholics to compulsively drink endlessly once they start again.

But I would still recommend looking into acamprosate (camprol I think?). It reduces cravings, and if you do drink, it tends to be much less.

Actually, his doctor probably could prescribe both. I don't understand that drug enough to comment much, but if it works in the same manner as the first, it might be what is needed to get him off alcohol completely (assuming it'd be safe for him to be on both). Though, that shouldn't be the only method of recovery, because...

~3 weeks ago my subscription ran out and my drinking immediately went off the the scale so i'd say that's decent evidence as well.

That is one major reason someone should make the necessary internal changes to stay away from alcohol on their own. They might lose access to the medications for one reason or another. I hope you managed to get another prescription since you wrote that.

You said a lot here, I'll probably respond in more detail later on but I wanted to say that I think you are confusing the steps for the actual fellowship of the AA/NA meeting.

Well, yes, that's true. Those programs are not merely the literature and doctrine, but also the people and meetings. A meeting doesn't have to mirror the literature and Steps' wording and attitude precisely. However, the literature and Steps do very massively influence the general fellowship. The core literature is extremely deistic and diminishes the power of people, so as a consequence most in AA also have that general philosophy. Of course, everyone except the lunatics in AA understands that they are not automatons, and they have to rely on their own judgement and strength to live their lives to a large degree. They just don't feel they can succeed at sobriety and happiness in general without the awareness and intervention of God, generally.

They don't stop the person and tell them to get down on one knee and thank God for "allowing" them to stay clean. I don't know where you are getting that from.

I'm familiar with the chip ceremony. I never said they ritualized that in that manner, though a fair number of the blue/year chip takers will assert God and their allegiance to God allows them to remain sober.

The main thing about it is the connections people make with their peers, the therapeutic element of meditation, prayer, and venting your frustration to a completely open and nonjudgmental group who exist outside of your normal circle. A lot of alcoholics/addicts turn into isolated people, so just getting them to break that habit of being isolated and getting them outside the house is a good thing that I'm sure a lot of them would normally avoid.

Oh, yes, I'm not arguing with you at all there. Especially for people who have additional mental illness and are highly estranged from humanity, that kind of camaraderie is extremely important. 12 Step programs very much facilitate service and participation. People who might not readily have any other opportunities to be useful to other people, will always have a clubhouse or meeting to utilize in such a manner, which bolsters their social experience as well as happiness. This is something that the secular alternatives just can't offer, especially at their current sizes.

This human power is very, very powerful. Unfortunately, I think so many in AA don't realize just how strong their fellowship and its various customs are. Such forces are diminished because their own program eschews human strength and will in favor of divine salvation.

Every comment here (for the most part) has been badmouthing AA/NA or knocking them in favor of some alternative method.

Oh, I will be the first one to point out their merits and advantages, as well as the first to point out their defects. I think the 12 Step model (disregarding the God versus human debate) is not intrinsically bad, and those organizations have several customs and cultural traits which make them highly meritorious and well-functioning. The problem at least in AA is its literature and dogma. The rejection of the power of people and their capability to improve their own lives, and the rejection of the validity of anything not God-centered, severely limit its range of appeal and effectiveness. Its overarching message and orientation grievously sabotage it, and they are overall extremely unwilling to adapt and modernize. Would you want your psychotherapist to treat you using 1930's medical texts and theories?

I think that part of AA is off-putting for many people. It's hard to try to change something if you think you have no control over it.

I'm not actually sure what was intended when Bill W. and his contemporaries created the 1st Step and used the word "powerless". To me, it's not really an assertion that one is totally and utterly incapable of helping themselves, but that there will never be such a thing as successful usage of alcohol or whatever else the addiction is. If an alcoholic drinks, alcohol will win every time, and there is nothing which will change that. That's what it means to me and I would imagine most people in such programs.

Since there's ambiguity about that and there's pre-existing friction between some people and 12 Step due to the literature, however, that is indeed another reason people dislike going there, whether it's rightful or not.

 

[bacterium]

Okay. I'm gonna power level quite a bit here. But that's kind of what this thread is about, right?

My addiction is alcohol. Which is why I know about acamprosate and naltrexone (via third party).
I am going to group 3 times a week, one-to-one counseling once a week and meetings when I can.

That said, it's still a struggle. People who don't have the disease rarely understand, and that makes it worse. I could ramble on but...


Tl:dr
I'm an alcoholic. I hung out with my ex today who is addicted to meth.

She originally told me she didn't want to get better, but today she was more open to it. She mentioned marriage and family (I honestly don't know if it was directed at me)

I want her to get better, but I don't want to be forceful. I'm trying to get her to go to meetings with me...

What do?

 

[Caesare]

I want her to get better, but I don't want to be forceful. I'm trying to get her to go to meetings with me...

What do?

That isn't power leveling at all. Don't listen to that nonsense, people overuse that term here. What you are asking is completely relevant to the discussion going on. You aren't revealing embarrassing personal information on a completely unrelated topic, this whole thread has been about alcoholism, addiction, AA/NA, etcetera.

I don't know you or your girl, but I am always happy to hear that someone who suffers from this is doing something proactive about it, getting the help they need.

Maybe try and talk your girl into going to one meeting with you. Tell her they are only an hour long, she doesn't have to speak or anything. Just see if she will come with you and listen. I think a lot of people get intimidated walking into a room of strangers and talking about such personal issues, but she doesn't have to talk.

Once she hears some of the other people's stories and anecdotes, there is a possibility that she will like what she is hearing. Maybe she will want to attend a few more meetings just to listen. She will start seeing familiar faces at the meetings, the people who attend AA/NA are typically (in my experience) very friendly and outgoing, and especially welcome to newcomers. Once she gets comfortable with the people, maybe she will want to share her story too.

Everybody is different, but we aren't as unique as we sometimes think. Most people experience the same exact things and have the same thoughts from time to time. My experiences have been positive because of the wide variety of people that attend AA/NA. You have people just getting out the penitentiary trying to get their mind right. You have police officers, businessmen and women, wealthy people, middle class and poor people, politicians, college kids, educated people. Addiction and alcoholism surely does not discriminate.

Listening to a variety of people's experience and the wisdom they can share can be very helpful. Just try and talk her into attending one meeting with you to see what its all about. After all, its only one hour of her time and she may actual get something out of it. The worst that can happen is she doesn't dig it and she won't want to return, which is fine. Maybe she isn't ready yet.

When I first attended AA and NA meetings, it was a court ordered and a condition of my probation because of an old drug charge from 10 years ago. I didn't know what to expect in there. I thought it was going to be bums and the dregs of society, but it isn't that at all. I found welcoming people who seemed genuinely interested in helping each other out. I've seen people who were a little more well off loan people money, pay members light bills if they were broke, its crazy the generosity you can see in a good group.

These people become like a second family to one another. I will say though, as soon as I fulfilled my 2 meetings a week during my probation period, I never went back for years and years. One day, I felt the need to go back, Idk why, something in my brain or my soul just pushed me in that direction, and I will say this, its a completely different experience going on your own accord as opposed to being ordered to go by a court or a probation officer.

When I attend meetings now, I get much more out of them than I did when I was forced to go, merely attending and going through the motions robotically because I was forced to. It's not easy to explain, but it feels like I understand it better now that its my choice to go.

Anyway, I wish you and your girl the best with your issues, and I hope your girl gives it some thought and attends a meeting with you. You can get well if you work hard at it and seek help every where you can get it. Don't just try one method, give them all a shot. And for the love of God, try not to burn anymore bridges. That was always my problem. I had good friends trying shake some sense in me when I was a dumb youth but I told them to screw off because of course, I knew better lol.

Addiction is a mfer man, but you can overcome it. Good luck!!!

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

I'm an alcoholic. I hung out with my ex today who is addicted to meth.

It can be very difficult when both partners have addictions and have a tenuous grasp on sobriety. I've also heard from multiple people with experience in this general area that meth is the most difficult addiction to deal with, because the drug is so powerful and the effects from abuse of it are so extensive and persistent. Alcoholism is apparently relatively easy to address in comparison to meth addiction.

I want her to get better, but I don't want to be forceful. I'm trying to get her to go to meetings with me...

Even though her DoC is different from yours, it's highly risky for someone early in recovery to have a significant other who is in active addiction. She might inadvertently threaten your sobriety unless she enters recovery as well. I'm not advocating any decision regarding that, but it's a factor you should contemplate, preferably while also seeking the advice of people in recovery alongside you.

On the matter of meetings... I would suggest diplomatically imploring her to attend meetings with you, but only after you ponder heavily the exact wording and such, and after seeking advice from others. Don't be too timid when bringing the matter up, but don't make her feel needlessly defensive or agitated by being too forceful or forthright. Remember that, especially while she's on meth, she's not going to be the most rational and level-headed person. She seems to at least recognize her meth use is problematic, which is a rather critical component in voluntary recovery attempts.

Also, if you two are going to pursue the 12 Step options, remember that each of you can go to the other's primary fellowship generally. If she wants to not drink, she qualifies for membership in AA. If you want to not use alcohol or other drugs, you qualify for CMA membership. You two don't have to attend meetings separately. That said, meetings have varying tolerances of addictions other than their primary focus being mentioned, and are free to discriminate in that regard. I would suggest looking for clubhouses which have a variety of fellowships there. Some meetings/clubhouses are very, very fixated on AA and alcoholism, and will respond badly to a person even mentioning something besides alcohol (it's a terrible attitude, but it does prevail in some corners of AA). Some are fine with all sorts of addicts mixing together and mentioning something besides that meeting's primary DoC.

Also, non-12 Step programs like SMART or LifeRing deal with multiple types of addictions, so both of you could go to those without any fear at all of not "qualifying". If you want 12 Step without God, you might be near a We Agnostics/secular AA meeting or two.

Just try and talk her into attending one meeting with you to see what its all about. After all, its only one hour of her time and she may actual get something out of it. The worst that can happen is she doesn't dig it and she won't want to return, which is fine.

Actually, I suggest several meetings are attended at different times and places. It's very bad if someone bases their attitude and future attendance on one particular meeting due to sheer variances and diversity. A good group/meeting might be mediocre or bad once in a while, or someone might happen to choose a group which is too rigid/liberal for their tastes. Clubhouses and meetings have varying cultures and customs, not just on "primary purpose" issues, but on all sorts of other matters.

 

[Caesare]

Actually, I suggest several meetings are attended at different times and places. It's very bad if someone bases their attitude and future attendance on one particular meeting due to sheer variances and diversity. A good group/meeting might be mediocre or bad once in a while, or someone might happen to choose a group which is too rigid/liberal for their tastes. Clubhouses and meetings have varying cultures and customs, not just on "primary purpose" issues, but on all sorts of other matters.

That is actually really good advice. I only suggested getting her to go to that first meeting with that gentleman to "get over the hump" and find out about what they really are about. Good call though.

 

[aerostar88]

Spoiler: degenerate drug using scum

I like drugs, just rarely. They can be a good time and a bad time. If you're able to do them occasionally, they can be a pretty neutral entity in your life. I went to college, I work in my field, and have a great relationship with my family, who are relatively aware of the way I am with drugs, and how I've been in the past. I somehow managed to get into a comfortable spot in life, and smoking pot really does help me not do other things that are more harmful to me.

It's easy to get addicted to any drug when you're unhappy. They were an actual problem for me when I was younger. I seem to be able to manage doing things occasionally now and leaving it at that. NA is helpful temporarily. The whole do 90 meetings in 90 days thing is a decent tactic. That being said, staying there forever will only hold you back and make you afraid to make all sorts of benign choices. Much easier to get treatment for the underlying reason you use the drug habitually. Support groups are great, I love them. But ones without pseudo-religious messages were better for me personally.

Meetings and treatments don't do it for everyone though. I've seen enough of my old friends practically lose their minds doing cocaine constantly. If drug problems were something simple to understand, they'd be simple to fix. When someone's identity is consumed by their addiction, they can be extremely hard to be around. It's an especially painful situation when it's a close friend.

In an unrelated note, some of the biggest lolcows I went to high school with were the ones who called people "druggies" if they smoked cigarettes or drank. That word still cracks me up to this day.

 

[Field Marshal Crappenberg]

That is actually really good advice. I only suggested getting her to go to that first meeting with that gentleman to "get over the hump" and find out about what they really are about. Good call though.

There have been some meetings I've sat in which caused me to think to myself, "Oh, I really hope no newcomers are here. This would be a horrible first meeting to be in.". And that's happened with many people. They come into a shitshow for their first meeting, and then never come back. That's not reasonable, of course, but people aren't in a good state if they're needing help with drinking/using.

That being said, staying there forever will only hold you back and make you afraid to make all sorts of benign choices. Much easier to get treatment for the underlying reason you use the drug habitually.

While emotional dysfunction definitely can be the direct cause of someone abusing substances or going back to using them, people with genuine and full addiction/alcoholism cannot moderate even when everything is splendid. Some people just have that disease and the only solution is abstinence. Going back to the first part of your comment, I do think some in recovery are overly self-critical or view any of their excesses as a symptom of their disease.

 

[Heimdallr]

I have experienced addicitions. They exist to compensate for something. They fill a hole we have in our lives.

The best way to combat addictions is to find out what your "hole" is and figure out how to fill it.

The hole will be filled one way or another. I have often experienced loneliness and disatisfaction in my relationships. That is one of the reasons I got facebook in the first place, to spy upon and envy those whose lives I envied.

It turned into an addictiong, and for years I have suffered from envy, and lack of satisfaction in relationships. I realize however that facebook is pure, voyeuristic poison and I have permanently deleted it. It is an odd feeling not having it for the first time in 8 years, but I feel it's time has come.

I have now learned to develop the relationships I have, not those I wish I had ( or believe I should have had.)

Find your hole. Fill it with good stuff, not junk

 

[ICametoLurk]

Find your hole. Fill it with good stuff

like cummies.

 

[DirkBloodStormKing]

Isn't it very common for victims of child abuse, especially child sexual abuse and victims of domestic violence and/or rape to have addictions to deal with the emotional pain and even the PTSD they have from the trauma. Of course not all addicts are abuse victims but from what I researched a very large percentage of them have dealt with some kind of traumatic experience as a child or even as an adult. But I do believe most addiction problems can be treated better with more mental health awareness and realizing that child abuse (especially if it is sexual or physical abuse) and other traumatic experiences can be a major factor that can trigger substance abuse and other severe mental health problems.

 

[Caesare]

Isn't it very common for victims of child abuse, especially child sexual abuse and victims of domestic violence and/or rape to have addictions to deal with the emotional pain and even the PTSD they have from the trauma. Of course not all addicts are abuse victims but from what I researched a very large percentage of them have dealt with some kind of traumatic experience as a child or even as an adult. But I do believe most addiction problems can be treated better with more mental health awareness and realizing that child abuse (especially if it is sexual or physical abuse) and other traumatic experiences can be a major factor that can trigger substance abuse and other severe mental health problems.

Yes, I believe that to be the case for many people. Not everybody of course, but I believe a large number of them have had those type of problems as youths or even as adults as you said.

Spoiler

My immediate family is great, I have nothing bad to say about them even though my father and I had some issues when I was younger. Nothing creepy like that, you deviants, but he used to work late most nights, drink (rarely to never inside the home though), and go out on the weekends with his friends throughout my whole childhood. That's not to say that he didn't spend time with us, but the dude drank, had a lot of stress from raising four kids, three with my mother (who is a Saint) and my half-sister he had custody of from a prior marriage.

Sometimes, on a Saturday or a Sunday morning, probably having a hellish hangover, he had to deal with four young, loud kids. I was one of the middle kids (and probably the most eager to please my parents, my oldest biological brother was fucking hell-on-wheels lol. He was the one always failing in school, getting notes home from the teachers, getting in fights with the neighborhood kids, sleeping with the neighborhood girls, breaking shit, breaking laws, doing just about everything you could think of to piss off a parent.

My mother punished him, and the rest of us when we got out of line, but I don't remember her ever really hitting us. Maybe a spanking or something when we were kids, but never anything severe.

All-in-all, I had a very happy childhood and I loved my parents dearly, particularly my mother.

One of my earliest bad memories from when I was about ten years old, my oldest biological brother, who was probably very close to 18 at the time, got kicked out of his school, had a neighborhood girl's parents come over and inform my mother and father that he knocked her up (she was only 14) and that if he didn't pay for the abortion that they were going to press charges for statutory rape (even though her stupid hippy pothead parents were perfectly fine with them dating in the first place and KNEW the fucking age differences (My parents didn't, btw, my brother lied and told them she was 16.

Well, lol, all this happened in a period of about 3 days, and needless to say, my father was PISSED!!!! After the girl's parents left, he beat the shit out of my brother, which, let's be perfectly honest, he deserved.

But this is what fucked me up. After he was finished with my brother, I remember him coming into my room and just start berating me for completely unrelated things that I used to do that were SEVERELY minor compared to the things he was just dealing with like, "you don't do the dishes enough" "You don't eat right" "You should do better in school "etc. etc. but never anything even remotely serious.

I made one smart ass comment to him during the verbal berating and he punched me so hard in the face that it knocked me out cold. He used to beat us before, but never like that. It was painful, sure, but the worse thing about it was the confusion and the fear that I felt around him after that for years and years. Even when I got older and bigger and could probably take him in a fight lol, for a long time, whenever he would raise his voice for any reason, I would feel like that little pissy eyed crybaby again lol. It took me a long time to get over that.

I don't think this singular event turned me to drinking or drugs, but it certainly was memorable. I definitely think a young girl getting abused/molested by an uncle but especially a father would have a MUCH MUCH worse mental effect on her and could very possibly turn her to alcohol, drugs, suicide, severe depression, etc. All that and more. Just based on how long I remembered that seemingly insignificant event in the grand scheme of things... I couldn't even imagine being a female who was taken advantage of by a family member who is supposed to protect them, and to love/cherish them.

What makes those horrible situations worse is the fact that when you hear about such cases in the news, oftentimes the mother sides with the father/boyfriend against her own fucking flesh and blood daughter because she is too afraid to lose her meal ticket. Ugh, that is so enraging. I wouldn't know personally, but that had to be ALMOST as bad as the abuse itself, to have your own mother calling you a lair and taking the predator's side.

That is why I have zero sympathy for sex offenders like that, ESPECIALLY when it's a family member (or anyone for that matter) who abuses a very young girl like that. They deserve all the punishment that the law allows and then some, in my opinion.

TL/DR If you didn't read that incredible embarrassing, incredible long story. I don't know why people turn to drinking/using as adults. My family was pretty solid, we never went hungry, the light bill always got paid, we weren't wealthy but we had all the essentials. But I do truly believe that people don't turn into alcoholics (and I'm not talking about social drinkers. By alcoholics, I mean those people who have to drink every night and often during the day too or they get the shakes) for no reason. I believe something happened in their lives which made them turn into that, whatever that thing is, probably something tragic that they never got over.

Just like drugs, nobody just starts sticking a needle in their arm just because they want to get loaded, something made them that way, made them turn to those things.

But yeah, I agree wholeheartedly what you said, DirkBloodStormKing. Something made these people that way.

 

[keksz]

I'm not sure that abuse is a direct cause to drug use. There's certainly a relationship but I think is indirect: families and societies who let children get abused, by lack of oversight or simply having no one around that really cares and nurture the child are also probably the types of families and societies who will care even less when that child victim grows to become a broken adult, often unable to function properly in society.

A youngster who grows to become an outcast and later on a dysfunctional adult is orders of magnitude more likely to be exposed to drugs, fringe groups, crime and the like while those that had a happy childhood are more likely to grow up sheltered, with healthier hobbies, activities and mindsets that keep them away from the more extreme facets of society.

I don't mean to say abused children grow up to be criminals or that healthy children can't grow up to become serial killers or mass murderers. What I'm trying to say is that the same set of circumstances that will lead to a child to being abused is the same set of circumstances that is likely to lead an adult into an alternative and possibly degenerate lifestyle. That makes much more sense to me than saying that child abuse leads (directly) to drug addiction as a means of coping.

Having said that, I do believe that the ones that are able to beat the odds can certainly become very strong and independent people and often achieve much more in life than most people. Conversely, I've known a lot of sheltered people too that I wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with- the sort of egotistical, oblivious or plain just boring people you'll see come out of private schools or who have had their parents money handed over to them on a plate from birth...

 

[melty]

Okay. I'm gonna power level quite a bit here. But that's kind of what this thread is about, right?

My addiction is alcohol. Which is why I know about acamprosate and naltrexone (via third party).
I am going to group 3 times a week, one-to-one counseling once a week and meetings when I can.

That said, it's still a struggle. People who don't have the disease rarely understand, and that makes it worse. I could ramble on but...


Tl:dr
I'm an alcoholic. I hung out with my ex today who is addicted to meth.

She originally told me she didn't want to get better, but today she was more open to it. She mentioned marriage and family (I honestly don't know if it was directed at me)

I want her to get better, but I don't want to be forceful. I'm trying to get her to go to meetings with me...

What do?

It's really hard to have a discussion about addiction without powerlevelling. Almost everyone knows or is an addict, and very few people know the science behind it, so without personal stories the entire discussion would just be "I think addiction is bad" or "drugs seem pretty cool" over and over.

Two addicts being together, unless you are really stable that just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I would try to encourage her when you can, but as I'm sure you know, you can lead a horse to water, etc.

Find your hole. Fill it with good stuff

Not interested in becoming a sex addict, fam

My biggest issue with being sober atm is just being fucking bored.

 

[bacterium]

It's really hard to have a discussion about addiction without powerlevelling. Almost everyone knows or is an addict, and very few people know the science behind it, so without personal stories the entire discussion would just be "I think addiction is bad" or "drugs seem pretty cool" over and over.

Two addicts being together, unless you are really stable that just seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I would try to encourage her when you can, but as I'm sure you know, you can lead a horse to water, etc.


Not interested in becoming a sex addict, fam

My biggest issue with being sober atm is just being fucking bored.

Well, I saw her again tonight. And it was clear there was nothing between us. Would I like there to be? Yes. But my first priority is my and her sobriety.

We are just friends for now.

She did ask me about going to meetings together, so that is some progress I suppose.

And getting her sober is a good reason for me to stay the course