Emma Barnett: First this morning, Aimee Challenor is a trans activist who has had to come to terms with discovering her father was responsible for some horrific sexual crimes. David Challenor was jailed for 22 years last summer for charges including sexual assault, false imprisonment and the rape of a girl aged 10. He abused his young victim in something resembling a torture den in his attic. The details of the case are too extreme for us to discuss this morning on the programme.
As David Challenor waited to go on trial Aimee was trying to get her political career off the ground. You might remember this story. She tried to become an MP and a councillor for the Green Party and on both occasions, appointed her father as her election agent even though she knew he was facing sexual offence charges. This all came out into the open after his conviction. Now, an independent report has criticised both the Green Party and Aimee and David Challenor. Aimee spoke to me a little earlier. It's her first interview about the events of the last few years.
Aimee Challenor: At a young age I had a diagnosis of autism and oppositional defiance disorder which sort of framed my childhood in a very limited, narrow way. Special educational needs schools, that sort of thing, where there was a lot of focus on autism rather than necessarily academia. I was in and out of the care system, I've been in a number of care homes in my life ...
EB: Was that from a young age?
AC: Not from a young age but social workers have been involved from a young age. I entered care at age 15 but there's been involvement from the day I was born because of past family history, before my time. I grew up in care at 15 and decided I wanted to come out when I was 16 as trans. I've spoken quite openly about that in the past, the feeling of isolation because I had - I realised I was trans at 10 and ... sort of keeping that in the closet, a secret, because you don't really realise at such a young age that trans is a thing.
EB: But you didn't feel like you were a boy?
AC: I didn't from - I had the realisation at about 10 but there were signs beforehand.
EB: And why did you, from this sort of beginning that you've described, and I know you have spoken in detail in the past about coming out as trans, but we're not really here to actually talk about that today ...
AC: No, exactly.
EB: ... let's talk about why you decided to get into politics.
AC: I came out as trans and started realising more and more issues with the world, and obviously it was the time of the coalition government, mass cuts, obviously the debate over student fees, alternative vote ... and I was thinking, I want to make a difference to my community. I had an interest in law already so I got involved in politics, originally just community activism, and someone said, why don't you think about party politics? So I looked at the manifestos. Coalition government - didn't agree with the Conservatives or the Lib Dems because of what was going on in government, didn't agree with Labour locally, and someone sent me the Green Party manifesto and I found myself agreeing with what I was reading.
EB: You end up trying to run as a councillor and also as an MP and this brings us on to appointing your father ...
AC: Yeah.
EB: ... as your agent. Just to explain, what is an election agent?
AC: An election agent is someone who takes the legal responsibility, largely, for the campaign, making sure that the leaflets are in compliance with electoral law, making sure that expenses are filed correctly, that we don't go over the spending cap.
EB: So it's a position of significant responsibility in relation to what the person ...
AC: Especially when it comes to election law.
EB: So, just to go through this in terms of the sequence of events, your father was charged towards the end of 2016 and what we're talking about, when he becomes your election agent, is about six months later, is that correct?
AC: Yeah, correct.
EB: When he was charged, how did you find out? What did you know at that time?
AC: I wasn't told a lot, I got a - upset message from my mum who was like, your dad's been arrested, there's 22 offences and they're telling me that some of them are sexual. And that's all ...
EB: Because your parents were still together?
AC: Yeah, my parents were still together. That's all I was told at that time, I wasn't living at home because I was a care leaver, I'd been supported into independent living. That's all I knew at the time, and obviously I - there were mental health checks being performed and then I'd be - all I'm told is, your dad's been put out on bail, there are reporting restrictions on the case, if anyone tries to contact you from the press about it you can't talk to them.
EB: But what were you talking about with your father?
AC: Not a lot, it was obviously highly stressful and I wasn't living at home at the time and I didn't know any of the case details, so ...
EB: But most people listening to this will think, well I'd just ring my dad and I'd ask him what he'd done, or what he'd been charged with, certainly.
AC: So I - I - as I said, my mum told me that some of the offences were ... sexual and I was - I was leaving the care system at that time, quite a - a vulnerable point in any young person's life. And there was a lot of me, because of the past several years in the care system, that wanted me to go, I need to build ... this ... relationship with my family because I've came out, I've begun my transition, you know, I need to have their support and that requires me to, if you like, support them. There's a bit of ... you think that you've got to be loyal because it's your family. And so I - I didn't really ask. I knew that the police had put him on bail, I mistakenly believed that they only bail people if they didn't believe there was any risk to other people or society. So in my mind it was a case of, well, the police are now looking into it, there's not a lot I can do as a 18 year old young woman, trying to deal with her own politics, her own transition.
EB: So when you say - I understand what you're saying there about loyalty and trying to rebuild and that particular point in your life - but how would you describe your relationship with your father at that time?
AC: I think we drifted apart a bit because of the care case. Over the next few months, between that point and the general election, there was - building of a relationship, you know, going out, getting coffee with him etcetera, visiting London. We built up our relationship, got closer over those months, and then I was at home one day with my mum and dad and I get a message from a friend, the Prime Minister's about to make a statement on TV. So I flip over to the news channel and [inaudible] I'm going to parliament for a general election. Now, as a spokesperson and - someone who is - I was trying to build my profile and the Greens' profile. I was like, I want to stand in that election and my dad's like, can I be your agent? This was several months on after charging. I hadn't heard any updates on the case, no-one had spoken to me about it. So I was like OK, yeah, it - it's not like we're going to win Coventry South. It was, it is a strong Labour area, the entirety of Coventry. We're not going to be filing many expenses, we did one leaflet round of £110 or thereabouts. So in my mind, I weighed up - there's not that much to be done in this campaign. You know, we're standing so that people have the choice to vote Green, and to ...
EB: And you were how old at this point?
AC: I was 18.
EB: And when your father asked you if he could be your election agent, did you feel pressurised by him?
AC: I guess, to an extent because - you know, like, he - he's my father and I - I'm trying to build my relationship up with him. I think if he hadn't have asked I would have gone with the generic person the Green Party set up.
EB: I suppose what I'm trying to understand is, did you feel in any way - sort of - because he was your father you had to do it? Did you feel controlled in some way?
AC: In some ways, yeah. As you say, because he was my father it - it was like I had to do it, and I guess at the time it was framed in a way that it was the logical choice.
EB: Framed by him?
AC: Yeah, definitely, and the way it was presented to me, it was like - we're literally in the same - family, you know, it's easier enough for him to run my campaign than if I'm just meeting an agent once a week over coffee.
EB: Did he - did he say to you though Aimee, that remember, I have been charged?
AC: No ...
EB: He didn't bring that up as a potential problem?
AC: ... and obviously, at this time, I'd told the Green Party, which no doubt we'll come onto, but no-one around me in the party, when I was like, 'ooh my dad's my election agent,' was like, 'Aimee, hang on a second.'
EB: Didn't the charges against your father, even if you didn't at this point know all the detail, didn't that make you want to distance yourself from them?
AC: I wasn't - I wasn't told the full nature of the charges.
EB: But even if you were aware, just as you said, that some of them were sexual - your mother had told you at least that - you know, was there no alarm bells ringing from your perspective of, I'm trying to get into public life, I'll be at, if I may say, a very young age - but I recognise what you're saying about the realistic proposition of winning the seat - were there no alarm bells ringing?
AC: When I was first told, there would have been some alarm bells, yeah, but ... likewise, I was told that the police have released him on bail, and continued to release him on bail, which I think skewed my perception a bit. And obviously there's the familial skew of, it's my family, I have to stand by my family.
EB: Did it not maybe then, the other way of looking at this, at any point because your father had been charged, did it not make you think, I might want to put my political hopes on hold until this is over?
AC: No, that part comes down to - I'm - I'm not my father and it's not up to him to live my life, and it's not up to me to put my ambitions or my decisions on hold because of something that he's done.
EB: Of course, but by making him part of your political campaign you did link yourself to him, and very strongly.
AC: And that is a mistake which I regret and I've apologised for, because it was the wrong decision.
EB: So do - I mean - who do you blame for that decision, because it sounds like you were coming under quite a lot of pressure?
AC: I was coming under pressure but ultimately I appointed him. Some people have said that I've employed him or I've - and it's not an employed role. I wish that there had been more oversight from the Green Party. I wish that there'd been more, in terms of support and training ...
EB: I mean, other people ...
AC: ... as a candidate I had to reveal any disclosures I had to the party. We didn't require that of election agents. There was not - at this time the Green Party didn't have a formal, complete safeguarding policy or procedure.
EB: Do you feel the Green Party failed you in a duty of care and safeguarding, to check whether it was right for you at the age of 18 to be running, and also who was around you, influencing you at that time, especially considering, as you've described, some of your background?
AC: To an extent. I think there definitely could have been a lot more support and training because even aside from being a political candidate in an election, I was a spokesperson, so dealing with external communications for the party. I think there definitely could have been a lot more training and support for all spokespeople, it was a common issue. Not, obviously, safeguarding necessarily but the lack of training and support, which for the Green Party was difficult because it's - they have a small staff team but it's something difficult that they should have tackled, rather than going, it's difficult, we can't do it at the moment.
EB: You don't win the seat, as we know, and then there's the trial of your father. How much later was that?
AC: That was over a year later, it was summer 2018.
EB: Is it right in saying that you appointed him twice as an election agent?
AC: Yeah, I appointed him in the 2017 general election ...
EB: And then ...
AC: ... and then the 2018 local council election.
EB: Which your mother also stood for ...
AC: Yes.
EB: With him as ...
AC: So both me and my mother were what's called paper candidates. So we're a name on the ballot but we do no campaigning. It's again to provide an option to vote Green.
EB: I think, just to break in at this point if I may, people may be surprised that - you know, you AND your mother are thinking of standing for office in the middle of what was going on with the trial approaching.
AC: My focus was improving the lives of people in Coventry, improving the city. Obviously, late 2017 we had the amazing news of City of Culture, so it was a great time to take a stand and represent people in Coventry.
EB: And your mother?
AC: I can't speak for my mother.
EB: It just seems a bit odd that there's this man in the middle of this who's both of your election agents and you're both running like this, and it sort of begs the question about his level of control at this time.
AC: I can't speak for my mother but we were both paper candidates, we did no campaigning in the area for example.
EB: But did he suggest that you should run for those seats as ...
AC: I wanted to stand for local election. Members of Coventry Green Party besides my father, but also my father, suggested that my mother would stand in as a paper candidate to get the full slate across the city. Obviously my father had some role in that, not all of the role but he did have some role in that. As I say, I can't speak on behalf of my mother, I can speak ...
EB: Can you see why it might seem a bit odd?
AC: To some people I could, yeah. My focus at the time was, you know, making a positive message in the city.
EB: When did the trial happen then? That was ...
AC: That was August.
EB: That was August, OK. And when that began, could you describe, as you started to, is that when you did start to learn the full nature ...?
AC: So I learnt a little bit of detail in July when I was asked to produce a statement for court and to prepare to be a witness. But then obviously at that point I'm a witness for court so they don't want to tell me too much because it might skew what evidence I give. And then I'm on the stand in the courtroom and the prosecution barrister for the CPS presents these details to me and I'm shocked ... heartbroken in a way because this is my father. And ... I - I give my statement for court and, sort of, the judge orders a recess and I sort of slump out of the court and I go off and I cry to ... my mum and I get - how can this ... be? I don't go back to court to watch the rest of the trial, I stay at home.
Then 22nd of August, mum's in court with my dad and ... I'm not hearing much because obviously, court room, you're not on your phone, and a message comes through from a family friend and it just goes, Aimee, I'm so sorry. And at that point obviously I know that he's - he's gone down. And then ... my mum calls me and tells me he's gone down for 22 years - 21 years. And ... I phone up the Green Party press office on - emergency on-call team and I'm like, right, this is what's happened, tell - tell them about, you know, he's been my election agent, the fact that I gave evidence to the court. And they go, all right, I'll call you back tomorrow, type thing.
I then - my priority is then my mother because my dad was my mother's main carer because she was - had a number of disabilities so I had to spend a couple of days trying to get care in place for her. I then go up to spend time with family [inaudible] in Aberdeen and ... that's when it hit the press. I had to turn my phone off because I was just getting hounded with calls from not just reporters but people I didn't know and I - I called the press team and you know, like, this is - this is getting bad, they've just tried to doorstep my mum.
And ... so we put out a - a statement. We had to put out a number of statements in that week because ... originally I was - there was an emergency statement of, we're aware of it, and, you know, Aimee's producing a statement and we've suspended David Challenor's membership. Obviously I didn't - I was standing for deputy leader of the Green Party at the time. I didn't want that ... election, that conversation of the future of the Green Party to be dominated by the atrocities that my father had committed. So I stepped aside from that election which ... upset some people around me because obviously, here's this man who's done atrocious things to a young - young ch- woman - a child. And ... then they sort of go, he's still, even though he's been sent to prison, then having an effect on the women around him because it's affecting, you know, my mother, his wife's care and whether - we weren't sure at that point whether she'd be able to stay at home. It's affecting obviously me and politics and has until last month.
EB: Because you're no longer a member of the Green Party ...
AC: yeah.
EB: ... we'll come onto where you're up to in just a moment, but how were you feeling at this point?
AC: I - I had to take a long time off from anything. I went up to Aberdeen and I sort of crashed because ... it was - it was heartbreaking you know, this ... individual, my father, had done such monstrosities and then obviously the sort of feeling of people left, right, centre, all going - all going, Aimee needs to say this, Aimee needs to say that, and I'm like, I just want to hide my head under a pillow and scream. It was an absolutely devastating time for me, and obviously then my family.
EB: And did you talk to him after the trial?
AC: I didn't, he was sent straight down then.
EB: But did he make a phone call to you?
AC: He couldn't that day.
EB: But since, have you ...
AC: I've spoken to him since.
EB: What was the first conversation like, because if as you say, you hadn't known the nature fully until everything came out in court, what was that first conversation like?
AC: Very ... hard. He was ... put on medi- quite strong medication when he was sent down so he - he wasn't, I don't think, quite with it during our first phone call. It was quite a short one because obviously they had to process us to go through to have longer phone calls with prisoners.
EB: Have you - have you shouted at him? Have you been annoyed with him?
AC: I've cried to him. I wouldn't really say I've shouted at him. I've told him that I'm angry.
EB: And what has he said to you?
AC: He's all - he's constantly saying sorry, sorry, but ... I - I'm still in a place where I'm battling my own internal conflict because there's part of me that's like, he's my dad, you know, I've got to allow him to say sorry, but he has destroyed ... this child's life, he's taken a sledgehammer to things that I've worked hard for and obviously it's deeply destroyed my mum.
EB: Do you have a relationship with him now?
AC: Not a close one, no. Last time I spoke to him, which was just after new year, it was to let me know that he'd been moved to a different prison and that he was calling me because he couldn't get through to my mum. I've not gone to visit him yet because I don't think that I could handle that emotionally and I'm not in a place to - where I could go in there and control my emotions, and not scream at him.
EB: Do you think you will visit him?
AC: I don't know. I just genuinely don't know.
EB: I suppose the other question at this point then is, you say it's like he took a sledgehammer to what you'd worked for, do you feel like you are able to come out yet of the shadows that he has cast over your life because of that connection with your political work?
AC: Slowly ...
EB: Because I know this is the first time ...
AC: ... yeah.
EB: ... that you've - you've spoken today.
AC: So it's the first time I've spoken on this but since then I have spoken on trans related issues.
EB: Yeah, sorry, I meant about what has happened.
AC: I - I have now joined the Liberal Democrats but ... I'll be continuing to speak out because it's the right thing to do, to continue to speak out when I see injustice and to campaign for what's right. I did a lot of amazing things as a Green spokesperson, I've experienced things that I'll never forget - debating at the Oxford Union or, you know, even simple things like changing TfL policy. So I don't think that ... his shadow will cast over me for a while. I've agreed with the Liberal Democrats that I'm not going to stand for councillor or MP for two years at least. That gives me time to ... heal after ... the pain that he's caused, it gives me time to have training, support, mentorship. That ... is desperately welcomed because it was missing in the Green Party.
EB: And perhaps get some other experiences ...
AC: Exactly, you know, it gives me ...
EB: ... as I say, I don't mean this in a patronising way but I'm remembering how I was when I was your age, I studied politics, I was very interested in politics, but I don't think I was at all ready to go through running for office or some of those things. That's not to say we're the same in any way but - and you've got a lot of issues that you feel very passionately about ...
AC: Yes.
EB: ... that you want to contribute on, but it probably would be a good thing, isn't it, to get that training that you're talking about.
AC: It's going to be really great to get that training and ...
EB: And I presume you're not going to work with your family again on politics?
AC: No, god no. God no.
EB: Well I think ...
AC: I think I'll be working with professional teams from the Liberal Democrats if I stand again, obviously if there's going to be a lot of training and support. I have a partner in Michigan in the United States and you know, we're now looking actually, now I'm not so engrossed by British politics, actually is this a time - is this a good time for us to consider our future and the fact that we're currently, you know, several thousand miles apart - is this the time to start looking at closing that distance?
EB: So maybe a bit more on your personal life as well. Aimee, I really do appreciate you taking the time ...
AC: Thank you.
EB: ... to talk to me and to all of us this morning. Thank you.
AC: I just want to finish quickly ...
EB: Please ...
AC: ... by highlighting the fact that I have learnt from my mistakes, from this report and from my experience. Ultimately there's been a lot of tit-for-tat in regards to party politics or trans equality by commenters on this. We shouldn't forget that at the bottom of this there is a little girl who was ... absolutely hurt and whose life will ... always be affected by this and my thoughts continue to be with her throughout what must have been a very traumatic past few months for her as this was splashed all over the press.
EB: Aimee, thank you.
AC: Thank you.
