Alcohol debate thread. - Is Alcohol necessary?

Alex Hogendorp

Pedophile Lolcow
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
There has been arguments regarding Alcohol. Many people often become addicted to it. Others say it's a good drink to pass the time while others say It's not good for anyone as it takes away their agency when they get drunk. This is a debate thread regarding the necessity of Alcohol.
 
My only opinion on alcohol is that it's a very destructive drug and should be drunk in a very conscientious manner (barring religious usage which often involves very weak wine). It made me realize how insane societal rules and expectations are. I'm not cosigning marijuana at all and it makes you a retarded slacker and can trigger schizophrenia and mental illness if you have a family history of that, but it is objectively a safer drug than alcohol in pretty much every metric. You can't really overdose on weed and like I said before, it can fuck with your head, it can't induce dementia like alcohol can. Not to mention, your lungs won't shut down with prolonged usage like your liver will with alcohol. Yet, it's still looked down upon due to gay laws that a bunch of paper manufacturers lobbied for in the early 1900s.

All that being said, I don't mind it existing. In fact, I drink a couple beers causally from time to time with friends. I just don't hang out with people that think getting shit-faced all the time or drinking alone is a proper use of their time on Earth. Like I said, it's good in moderation but people either stigmatize it to an absurd degree or think getting drunk on a regular basis is a necessary part of life (specifically college), so I've just learned to follow my own philosophy and it's consequences to their logical end.
 
Alcohol is fine in moderation but most people these days also lack the discipline to stop at just 1 or 2 drinks before they lose themselves. Anyone constantly drinking themselves into a mess despite knowing that they're in this latter camp, either because they don't care or because they're delusional, is the real problem with the stuff.
 
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Hell we owe booze everything we have right now as modern humans. When ancient humans discovered the intoxicating effects of booze it was part of the reason why they transitioned from hunter gathers to agriculture. It's also a large part of why human were able to stave off infections of parasites and bacteria from unclean water. Fermentation kills them when you make beer or other spirits.

As for me personally, I don't partake in any drugs apart from the occasional caffeine, but like everything the key is moderation. I don't really see the issue with booze if you have a glass or two, or you pull a Hank Hill and have a beer with a few friends. Hell even if you get black out drunk once in a blue moon when you're with friends at a party or something I don't see the issue.
 
Alcohol in current day is pretty great for maintaining the status quo because, as I'm sure many kiwis can attest, drinking winds up being a way for bored or dissatisfied people to pacify themselves.

I'd guess the percentage of drinking done alone nowadays has skyrocketed compared to the old days, when a lot of pretty important social/political/intellectual stuff happened at drinking establishments.
Weren't beer halls an element of the Hitler origin story for that very reason? Idk I'm not going to look it up.

Also, once upon a time alcohol was kind of an important foodstuff.
They'd drink (lower abv) beer in the mornings, because it's fairly energy dense. You can make some alcohol out of your excess organic materials (fruits, grains, etc) and it'll keep much longer than the substrate (?) itself will.

In fact alcohol itself has gone hand in hand with humanity since agriculture and human civilization came about, as people started growing large amounts of crops. Some athropologists have even suggested that making booze was a major driver in encouraging earlier humans to settle down and stop hunting gathering.


So the gist here is that booze has been a formative element, but unfortunately a whole lot of the positive effects associated with drinking/drinking culture in the past have been stripped away in lieu of its effect in self-medication and pacification, and our relationship is much more pathological. A little sad tbh.
 
Sometimes I wish I could drink alcohol like a normal person. For some reason if I start feeling tipsy, within 10-15 mins that warm fuzzy feeling abruptly stops and I start feeling sick and really uncomfortably tired. Probably something to do with my liver, or the various brain parasites vying for control amidst my inebriated state.
 
The campfire was burning brightly, the coals were glowing red,
The crackling sparks flew upwards as they vanished overhead.
The stockman’s evening meal was o’er, the damper stowed away -
To rest our weary limbs - around the fire we lay.

Put on another log my boys, a good large one; that’s right!
And make us a bully fire for I fear it will be cold tonight.
Before you light that pipe of yours look here in my valise
You’ll find a flask of good three star, there’s just a nip apiece.

Come mate pass up your pannikin, there’s plenty here you see.
No thank you sir, I’d rather not. No brandy sir for me.
How is it ned you never drink I’ve seen you tempted oft
But when you’ve a chance to take a drink it’s always something soft.

I once was wild the stockman cried as any man could be
And many a hard earned cheque I’ve knocked down in a drunken spree.
But times have changed and now on drink I look with dread and fear,
Were I my story to relate ’twould move you all to hear.

To tell the story of his life on him we did prevail -
And gathered closely round the fire to hear the stockman’s tale.
The hardy stockman heaved a sigh his face was sad and wan -
He knocked the ashes from his pipe and thus the tale begun.

“Three years ago, or nearly so - how fast the time rolls by.
We were droving on those western plains my brother Ben and I.
It is of my brother Ben I wish to speak the most
A gay and manly lad was he - as the country round could boast.

But for all his manly virtues he one great failing had -
And that was drink. Through cursed drink I’ve seen him raving mad.
But soon as he had sober grown a steady chap was he,
He earned his cheque and sent it home not knocked it down like me

We were in charge of a mob of cattle with other stockmen three.
And droving through those summer months right merry times had we.
One night we camped the cattle mob upon some rising ground
And when they steadied for the night we built the fires round.

And then to have a merry time I for the grog did call -
And soon I was myself , the merriest of them all.
My brother Ben joined in the fun and many a song we sung -
We made those flying curlews scream and the woods with echoes rung.

But Ben, he would not touch a drop although we pressed him hard,
To all our soft entreating he paid not the least regard.
Come Ben don’t be so mean to stand the odd man out
You know I’ve seen you drink your share when the liquors been about.

‘But Ned! I have not touched a drop these three long years’ he said
‘And you know how crazed I go when the stuff goes to my head’.
Nonsense man the night is cold you need only have one glass
‘One, one only one’ the chorus chimed, as around the grog they passed.

He yielded to that fatal glass which makes me sad to think
That I’m the only man in this world could make my brother drink.
Hour on hour, glass on glass we brothers sat and drank
Till weary in the nights caress into a drunken sleep I sank.

How long I slept I do not know I woke to sleep no more -
The distant thunder broke my rest a storm was gathering o’er.
I rose to stir the dying fire and tried to rouse the men -
When looking round with beating heart I missed my brother Ben

Just then a vivid lightning flash lit up the gloomy plain
I saw Ben riding madly by then all was dark again.
I cried aloud hold hard awhile his voice came hoarse and hollow,
“Ha-har!” he cried, “to death I ride come on! you dare not follow.”

I snatched my whip from off the ground my horse was standing near
And as I to the saddle sprang my heart stood still with fear.
He headed for the timberland with dark and gloom ahead
And as I spurred with rapid stride his maddened stock-horse fled.

I tried to grasp Ben’s bridle rein, his horse veered from the track
And went plunging through the midnight with a madman on his back.
His horse not being used to this tried hard his head to free
And rearing back he struck poor Ben against a leaning tree.

Dismounting I was on the ground and raised his drooping head -
And as I looked in to his eyes I could not think him dead.
But what a sight to me alas the coming dawn revealed
His blue eyes were forever closed his lips with blood were sealed.

Hah! Who will take the message home and tell his poor aged mother
The loss of her beloved son - my one, my only brother.
And to think that I the murderer was, from the ghastly thought I shrank,
Killed by lack of intellect through the cursed demon drink.

On yonder sloping mountainside a lonely grave you’ll see
All covered in with grass and moss beneath a cedar tree.
No marbled cross or monument this lonely grave doth mark
But we rudely carved my brother’s name deep in the growing bark.

And now my boys take warning all before it is too late -
Think of the stockman’s awful tale and his poor young brothers fate.
Save with a will I will not drink nor you with others tempt
I’ll pass it by as I’ve always done with silent cool contempt.
 
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With anything, moderation is key. There's a reason why it's been around for so long. It's a social ritual in some places. When I lived in South Korea, it was very common to drink with a boss or coworkers. It was a means of forming ties with others. When I was in China, same thing. Alcohol was also used to preserve things or to reduce wasting food. When you really think about it, anything can become an addiction or be abused. I think it's about personal responsibility though.
 
Is it necessary? No. Is it fine in moderation? Yes.

As someone who drank quite frequently and is now sober, my bit of advice for anyone thinking about getting sober is that you don't need alcohol for anything. There were things that I thought I needed to have alcohol for in order to have fun or even things I thought I did better while drinking. Once I stopped drinking though I realized I didn't need alcohol for anything and there wasn't one thing I did better while drinking than not.

Occasionally having a few drinks in a social setting is fine if you're someone that can do that. But when you find yourself drinking just to get drunk while playing vidya or something then I think you should cut it out before it becomes a lifelong habit and you go the Lady Di route and end up with wernicke-korsakoff.
 
go the Lady Di route and end up with wernicke-korsakoff.
I have never heard this one before - really?
My view on booze is that it’s fine in moderation. If you can’t do moderation, don’t do it at all.
I barely drink, not teetotal, I’d have one if I wanted or was at a party but I think it’s been over a year since I was in such a situation. Just can’t really be arsed with it these days.
 
Alcohol (ethanol, specifically) is pretty much impossible to ban because brewing it is pretty easy. Stone Age people figured it out and inmates are sometimes able to manufacture it in prison with *very* rudimentary materials. If you do ban it, then you get more problems: organized crime starts controlling the underground booze trade, people sell bathtub gin contaminated with methanol, so you'll go blind if you drink it, meanwhile, everybody who likes alcohol will set up their own little brew rigs in secret.
Also, it makes you feel pretty good if you don't overdo it.
 
As others have said it's fine in moderation, but I personally don't understand why you'd drink it in moderation. It's a drug and people generally take drugs to feel some altered state, but having only 1-2 beer isn't going to get you there. If you're going to have a beer or two, why not simply have soda that will taste better?

It's extremely annoying how much people on the internet teetotal these days while cheering for weed. They make alcohol out like some evil drug and refuse to admit there are legitimate issues that come with weed too. In a perfect would no one would use, or feel the need to use either.

I both love and hate alcohol. I love how it makes me feel better, how it allows me to forget bad thoughts, and how it allows me to basically fast forward time. I hate how it affects your skin, the heartburn, and I'm also not fond of waking up in my own vomit.

I think most of what people actually hate isn't the alcohol, it's how absolutely retarded some people get on it...usually weekend warriors at bars and people who almost never drink, but end up at events and don't understand what their limit is or how to pace themselves. The type of people who intentionally use the alcohol to be idiots and as an excuse for their bad behaviour.
 
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