- Joined
- Jul 29, 2024
It's like talking to the Wailing Wall.
Alcoholism Support Thread - Down the hatch
- Thread starter George Lucas
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- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
Just writing this in the hope that it maybe resonates with someone else out there. It kind of outlines the relationship that I had with alcohol and why it worked so well for me - its a bit unstructured but whatever:
Before I became sober I didn't really seek out information personally about the benefits of it but often came across people on my timelines and in my personal life who said it had worked out for them and why - there certainly wasn't any one single thing that pushed me over the edge or made me believe "hey this single thing this one person is saying makes sense and I'm going to become sober" and I also fought against the advice of professionals (therapists + doctors) who said I should become sober not because I was stubborn but simply because the world that they proposed (one of sobriety) would also mean a world devoid of opportunity. Getting drunk is fun.
When I was sober I would retreat into being a highly introverted person - there is a strong selling point that when you're black out drunk you can at least message and ask out chicks on dates and some of them will even say yes. Unfortunately, at least in my situation I was so unstable with alcohol that I would implode and go off the deep end once I'd gone on a date or two with someone. I'd use getting blackout drunk to apply for jobs, career stuff and other life stuff and if I didn't get blackout drunk then I just wouldn't do anything.
The therapists/doctors proposal was that I should become sober, work on myself first and only then get into dating and other stuff - I battled against this line of thinking because I knew at the speed they were proposing things would take another 10 years to happen, I had already been trying for the past 10 years and had got nowhere. And it wasn't that I was close minded, I researched AA when they suggested it (I didn't like the concept), I took the medications they prescribed to help with it and I went sober for a long time based upon their advice but didn't magically become happy or start achieving the things I wanted to.
I followed their little instruction book and joined a gym and some other shit but becoming sober didn't magically turn me into the person I wanted to be - it took quite a lot of learning and failure to realize that the "ideal life" I had envisioned simply wasn't "me" and was actually the idea of being someone else entirely. I of course knew the things that I wanted and what everyone wants in life - stability, money, friendship, companionship but the idea that stripping away my "superpower" of alcohol and that those things would magically materialize wasn't reality. When I first became sober I actually had many of the things that people desire including tons of money and friends but I didn't have an appreciation of them and instead found myself in the situation of wanting something else - not really "more" (in terms of "more money"). I avoided or glossed over the most simple thing possible which was to look at myself in the mirror and love myself for who I am and to love the people around me. It wasn't that I disliked the people in my life, I just was stupid and didn't appreciate them fully because I never appreciated myself.
The therapists/doctors simply didn't understand fully how severely how difficult it was for me to navigate the world while sober - there is no AA/support group that is going to fix that part of you. Its difficult to articulate something like that to anyone and even good doctors don't always listen to the actual problem at hand. They will see the most obvious problem which is alcoholism but to get them to understand the deep seeded issues isn't going to be easy and the playbook they have (based upon their education and life experience) may not necessarily match with your life.
The problem with all this is that working on yourself takes time and effort and the pace of it is going to be uncertain. Placing value in yourself is something only you can do at the end of the day - other people can help guide you but you have to pick up the mantle.
If you're already in your 30s and frustrated by a lack of progress, then getting blackout drunk unfortunately actually works way better than exposure therapy or any other bullshit, better yet you can let it become your entire personality because being drunk is fucking awesome - if you're extremely anxious and incredibly shy in the first place then getting blackout drunk, taking drugs and all of that will actually let you explore far more of the world and meet more people and go through more situations where you actually take risks like asking out a chick on a date than not.
When you consider this there is actually very sound reason why so many historical writers, musicians, actors and personalities were alcoholics - there are those people who can do one or two glasses of wine and call it a night but there has always been another class of people who either use substances like alcohol to deal with their dysfunction and hide away the habit from the world or those who use if wildly and publicly to deal with stress, life and most of all so they can access an alter-ego that only comes out once they're 20 drinks deep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Moon#Destructive_behaviour
I never drank or took drugs under peer pressure, rather my friends had them and if I took them I could escape being me and turn off my brain and go and do things I would never otherwise be able to do - I had people who thought my friends were boozehounds and were pushing me to drink when in reality I was always the one pushing to go out for a drink and once I pushed the drink button I would not stop. A friend of mine once described the way I was with alcohol as being "like a hand grenade" and she made perhaps the most accurate description of me when I would go out.
Away from friends and at home I would also drink non stop late into the evening and on the internet - sort of like the famous quote that is sometimes shown on the k-farms header: "I AM OFF MY MEDS AND I AM ONLINE!!!" except I would be on my meds, half way through several bottles of whatever alcohol I could find and fucking around online.
So it does actually work for a time... alcohol is your superpower! you can be anyone, you can go anywhere, you can be the life of the party! but it is of course totally unsustainable in the long term and if you use alcohol as your crutch and cudgel to deal with the real world then your personal faults will always end up shining through. Although you will get closer to people, it won't take long for them to see someone they don't want to be with fairly quickly - and if you do meet someone that does want to stay with you in that state it will be a recipe for surefire disaster. It's also the case that the kind of people you meet when you're like this may not be the best life partners.
If you're the life of the party and "like a hand grenade" then you'll gradually burn through the valuable relationships with your friends and people who care about you and whatever you were before drinking will go away - in my case I certainly wore out my welcome but earned forgiveness sorting my shit out and stopping drinking and became someone that my friends would hopefully actually respect and want to once again be around.
I just say all of this because depending on your reasons for drinking and whether you're even considering becoming sober or controlling your drinking then you should have an honest discussion with yourself about what you want in life, who you want to be and where you want to go and how you're going to get there.
I'm sure some lazy faggot is gonna say this shit is too much effort and they can't possible do it, but the best part about this is that you can do it, right now, while you're blackout drunk and perhaps that is the ideal state to be in because you'll have those creative juices flowing and be able to shit on yourself more honestly because of your self-hatred. I often did this exact thing in the form of writing where I would lay out what I wanted for myself (I just came across one of many of these that I wrote like 6 years ago).
You and you alone are always going to be your best advocate and while you're blackout drunk tonight instead of just fucking around you can spend some time with yourself and start laying the groundwork for becoming the best version of yourself you can be - even if that doesn't include becoming completely sober. No one else is going to turn up and do it for you - you can ask your friends, family and doctors for advice but you have to be the person who starts the change.
Here is a video I watched a while before becoming sober - it wasn't the sole reason that I did, but Rusty Cage is pretty relatable in this video and honest about his drinking - it goes without saying that's a pretty integral part of it.
Before I became sober I didn't really seek out information personally about the benefits of it but often came across people on my timelines and in my personal life who said it had worked out for them and why - there certainly wasn't any one single thing that pushed me over the edge or made me believe "hey this single thing this one person is saying makes sense and I'm going to become sober" and I also fought against the advice of professionals (therapists + doctors) who said I should become sober not because I was stubborn but simply because the world that they proposed (one of sobriety) would also mean a world devoid of opportunity. Getting drunk is fun.
When I was sober I would retreat into being a highly introverted person - there is a strong selling point that when you're black out drunk you can at least message and ask out chicks on dates and some of them will even say yes. Unfortunately, at least in my situation I was so unstable with alcohol that I would implode and go off the deep end once I'd gone on a date or two with someone. I'd use getting blackout drunk to apply for jobs, career stuff and other life stuff and if I didn't get blackout drunk then I just wouldn't do anything.
The therapists/doctors proposal was that I should become sober, work on myself first and only then get into dating and other stuff - I battled against this line of thinking because I knew at the speed they were proposing things would take another 10 years to happen, I had already been trying for the past 10 years and had got nowhere. And it wasn't that I was close minded, I researched AA when they suggested it (I didn't like the concept), I took the medications they prescribed to help with it and I went sober for a long time based upon their advice but didn't magically become happy or start achieving the things I wanted to.
I followed their little instruction book and joined a gym and some other shit but becoming sober didn't magically turn me into the person I wanted to be - it took quite a lot of learning and failure to realize that the "ideal life" I had envisioned simply wasn't "me" and was actually the idea of being someone else entirely. I of course knew the things that I wanted and what everyone wants in life - stability, money, friendship, companionship but the idea that stripping away my "superpower" of alcohol and that those things would magically materialize wasn't reality. When I first became sober I actually had many of the things that people desire including tons of money and friends but I didn't have an appreciation of them and instead found myself in the situation of wanting something else - not really "more" (in terms of "more money"). I avoided or glossed over the most simple thing possible which was to look at myself in the mirror and love myself for who I am and to love the people around me. It wasn't that I disliked the people in my life, I just was stupid and didn't appreciate them fully because I never appreciated myself.
The therapists/doctors simply didn't understand fully how severely how difficult it was for me to navigate the world while sober - there is no AA/support group that is going to fix that part of you. Its difficult to articulate something like that to anyone and even good doctors don't always listen to the actual problem at hand. They will see the most obvious problem which is alcoholism but to get them to understand the deep seeded issues isn't going to be easy and the playbook they have (based upon their education and life experience) may not necessarily match with your life.
The problem with all this is that working on yourself takes time and effort and the pace of it is going to be uncertain. Placing value in yourself is something only you can do at the end of the day - other people can help guide you but you have to pick up the mantle.
If you're already in your 30s and frustrated by a lack of progress, then getting blackout drunk unfortunately actually works way better than exposure therapy or any other bullshit, better yet you can let it become your entire personality because being drunk is fucking awesome - if you're extremely anxious and incredibly shy in the first place then getting blackout drunk, taking drugs and all of that will actually let you explore far more of the world and meet more people and go through more situations where you actually take risks like asking out a chick on a date than not.
When you consider this there is actually very sound reason why so many historical writers, musicians, actors and personalities were alcoholics - there are those people who can do one or two glasses of wine and call it a night but there has always been another class of people who either use substances like alcohol to deal with their dysfunction and hide away the habit from the world or those who use if wildly and publicly to deal with stress, life and most of all so they can access an alter-ego that only comes out once they're 20 drinks deep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Moon#Destructive_behaviour
I never drank or took drugs under peer pressure, rather my friends had them and if I took them I could escape being me and turn off my brain and go and do things I would never otherwise be able to do - I had people who thought my friends were boozehounds and were pushing me to drink when in reality I was always the one pushing to go out for a drink and once I pushed the drink button I would not stop. A friend of mine once described the way I was with alcohol as being "like a hand grenade" and she made perhaps the most accurate description of me when I would go out.
Away from friends and at home I would also drink non stop late into the evening and on the internet - sort of like the famous quote that is sometimes shown on the k-farms header: "I AM OFF MY MEDS AND I AM ONLINE!!!" except I would be on my meds, half way through several bottles of whatever alcohol I could find and fucking around online.
So it does actually work for a time... alcohol is your superpower! you can be anyone, you can go anywhere, you can be the life of the party! but it is of course totally unsustainable in the long term and if you use alcohol as your crutch and cudgel to deal with the real world then your personal faults will always end up shining through. Although you will get closer to people, it won't take long for them to see someone they don't want to be with fairly quickly - and if you do meet someone that does want to stay with you in that state it will be a recipe for surefire disaster. It's also the case that the kind of people you meet when you're like this may not be the best life partners.
If you're the life of the party and "like a hand grenade" then you'll gradually burn through the valuable relationships with your friends and people who care about you and whatever you were before drinking will go away - in my case I certainly wore out my welcome but earned forgiveness sorting my shit out and stopping drinking and became someone that my friends would hopefully actually respect and want to once again be around.
I just say all of this because depending on your reasons for drinking and whether you're even considering becoming sober or controlling your drinking then you should have an honest discussion with yourself about what you want in life, who you want to be and where you want to go and how you're going to get there.
I'm sure some lazy faggot is gonna say this shit is too much effort and they can't possible do it, but the best part about this is that you can do it, right now, while you're blackout drunk and perhaps that is the ideal state to be in because you'll have those creative juices flowing and be able to shit on yourself more honestly because of your self-hatred. I often did this exact thing in the form of writing where I would lay out what I wanted for myself (I just came across one of many of these that I wrote like 6 years ago).
You and you alone are always going to be your best advocate and while you're blackout drunk tonight instead of just fucking around you can spend some time with yourself and start laying the groundwork for becoming the best version of yourself you can be - even if that doesn't include becoming completely sober. No one else is going to turn up and do it for you - you can ask your friends, family and doctors for advice but you have to be the person who starts the change.
Here is a video I watched a while before becoming sober - it wasn't the sole reason that I did, but Rusty Cage is pretty relatable in this video and honest about his drinking - it goes without saying that's a pretty integral part of it.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2024
All I'll say is sobriety is a team sport. When you find a good AA group with winners, guess what? They'll turn you into a winner.
CAPTAIN HAPPY
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2021
Godspeed.
I grew up among A LOT of alcoholics and saw what that shit does to people and their families.
It takes a lot of guts to cut loose, but it's always worth it.
I grew up among A LOT of alcoholics and saw what that shit does to people and their families.
It takes a lot of guts to cut loose, but it's always worth it.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
Yes this is totally true. Not just in the context of AA but your friends and family too - you can't choose your family but you can choose your friends. If you hang out with dumbasses who have no ambition in life then you'll end up the same. If you hang out with people who have goals, structure and stability you will also end up with that.
ASCHQ
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2023
I was never a hardcore drunkard, but I mask with the best of them and needed to regain my perspective. I stopped about four weeks ago and I'm already noticing faster/better quality in my work, albeit with more hysterical behavior in the presence of certain company.
It's getting difficult to pretend I don't hate these people, and they are beginning to notice. The fact that my brain activity could drop around their level without them noticing gave a satisfying "I don't have to give a f*ck about these niggtard scum" feeling but now that's transitioned into "I'm glad you've finally begun to realize I consider you to be trash" which is better for me but not for my network. Has anybody else replaced their friend group after healing or is the proper mindset: "patience, Monty... climb the ladder"
It's getting difficult to pretend I don't hate these people, and they are beginning to notice. The fact that my brain activity could drop around their level without them noticing gave a satisfying "I don't have to give a f*ck about these niggtard scum" feeling but now that's transitioned into "I'm glad you've finally begun to realize I consider you to be trash" which is better for me but not for my network. Has anybody else replaced their friend group after healing or is the proper mindset: "patience, Monty... climb the ladder"
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- Joined
- Jul 29, 2024
I'm glad you're getting sober but don't character assassinate people. Ego like that isn't healthy and is usually a component of many people's drinking. If you start thinking "man, these people suck, I'm better than them," you can easily justify drinking again and getting back into that habit. Not trying to lecture you or anything, but it's something to consider.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2022
Sometimes you really need someone tk be mean to you to unfuck your shit. I think people really hype up getting sober and how long they've been sober to a degree it makes it gay.
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2024
I know guys with 20+ years of sobriety and, if you ask them, they always say "I have today." You have to stay humble because Mr. Drinky McGillicutty is always waiting for you around the corner to knock you on your ass.
Jerk Sausage
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 5, 2025
Counting days/months/years is part of the team sport aspect. On a baseball team, the veterans aren't asking the rookies for advice. In a room full of drunks, you don't seek counsel from the guy with 24 hours, though you might approach him to offer support/fellowship. It's not a dick measuring contest, even if some perceive it that way.
Sobriety time is just a reference point that's not a useful metric on its own. Let's say you have 2 different old guys, both with 40 years sober. One is miserable, divorced 5 times during sobriety, complains, is fat, estranged children, and just generally a grumpy old man. The other is someone who is happy, has grandchildren, retired but still actively working at his own leisure, etc. Which old guy would you rather take advice from? Are they both the same level of experts in sobriety? Is it possible one is following principles in life that the other isn't?
That's one of the cool things about AA is you get to see people at all stages of life, and you can discern what works for people and what doesn't. I've often seen that the difference in levels of misery is a spiritual problem, which is why it's a fundamental part of AA.
Sobriety time is just a reference point that's not a useful metric on its own. Let's say you have 2 different old guys, both with 40 years sober. One is miserable, divorced 5 times during sobriety, complains, is fat, estranged children, and just generally a grumpy old man. The other is someone who is happy, has grandchildren, retired but still actively working at his own leisure, etc. Which old guy would you rather take advice from? Are they both the same level of experts in sobriety? Is it possible one is following principles in life that the other isn't?
That's one of the cool things about AA is you get to see people at all stages of life, and you can discern what works for people and what doesn't. I've often seen that the difference in levels of misery is a spiritual problem, which is why it's a fundamental part of AA.
ASCHQ
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2023
Unfortunately ego was the motivator then as much as it is now. It is safe to say I gave them a chance, got along as well as I could, and am very close to moving up. Things will be much nicer when I'm spending the bulk of my time with people I actually like. Until then then I continue to thank the Kiwis who keep me grounded during my decent into the center of clown world.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
When you become sober it can destroy the illusion of people you hang out with. So they were maybe shit the entire time and alcohol just helped you to put on act.
It's ok to want better but also important to keep healthy perspective on things. A lot of people out there really are trying their best.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2021
- Joined
- May 29, 2024
I know. I can't. I don't have any fucking money. I'm $8k+ in debt. I have debt collectors crawling up my ass. I could only go to detox before because I was still on my dad's insurance. I can't afford it. It's a pipe dream. I dug myself straight down into a fucking hole and I'm stuck, look at the retard and laugh
This morning I was like "pffff I don't even fucking drink that much god see I'll even measure it out for once" and 1 standard drink in delulu land is 8 ounces of vodka so I have no fucking idea how much I've actually been drinking
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
Well then you figured out your starting point - put a black pen marker on a bottle when you start then put a black pen marker the next morning or whenever you wake up.
Put it this way: your doctors told you to cut down drinking by x amount - but to even do that you have to understand how much you're drinking in the first place. So measure it and then start working towards trying to drink less gradually.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2017
RustyCage my nigga.
This is basically me. I drink when I know I won't have shit to do the next day. It has replaced snacking, which in itself is a replacement for feelings such as happiness or even being entertained. I used to get drunk and play TF2 every friday, meaning I'd wake up with friends and having been social and fun. "Friends" I'd later remove en masse, not having made more than a few actual friendships based on a person I'm not; loud and outgoing. Recently I started playing TF2 sober and enjoyed it, but quickly I realized it was the same as before I started drinking: Be the loudest and most fun to make any 'friends'. It immediately turns me off the game, cause that's not what I wanna be like.
It's entirely FOMO based to me: "Oh man what if I didn't get drunk and didn't meet her and-" meet your wife shitfaced in a club? Yeah, that's very unlikely. Would I date someone who goes to bars for fun? Not really. Do I enjoy being drunk, or even talking to other drunk people? Fuck no, it's embarrasing. I just watched a documentary on the European culture of sending young people to Ibiza etc, and that shit is fucking sad. Pay money to go get drunk, finding any excuse to, so you can get laid with people you'll never meet again. I've spoken to even the most stoic and respectable friends of mine drunk and it's.. not pretty. What I actually wanna be? The semi-boring guy who can drive people home. That's fucking based. Or to tardwrangle a girlfriend who gets drunk twice a year and can't handle it.
I relapsed friday, thankfully didn't throw up friday, and I still feel it now monday. I went all of sunday from 5AM, thinking of all the things I could be doing: Biking, cleaning, shopping, if not the fact I felt semi-ill and wouldn't trust myself outside for more than 30 mins.
A coworker of mine suggested salsa dancing for another. He said "sure why not", a week later he had two dancing partners of his own AND joined choir. Suddenly he had 3 days a week occupied by respectable physical activities that weren't just hitting the gym. I could 100% steel myself and join the local bike club, but I prefer biking on my own whenever I want as that's the freedom joining a club would rob me of. But I also see people riding around in clubs and think "damn that must be so validating". I'd love to bike with other people but who'd actually -seek out- this if not through a club? Stalkers and freaks?
Our club culture is for ages 8 to 18 and 50 to 70. Being in a club in your mid-30s means drunk soccer saturday morning. I'd like to join something for adults to meet other adults, but it has to be mainstream enough that you'll be exposed to any given kind of person. Outside school and church, few times do you get thrown in with 'literally anyone else'. Even the workplace is obviously very coded towards a certain kind of education or personality. I'd wanna make friends with people completely different from me, but where? Booze-enabling venues? No thanks.
It's a tough nut to crack and it stems entirely from boredom. It's why I have friends my age making a lot of money working 24/7. As long as they're making money you can't fault them for having no social life or future. And that's valid to most people. You'll see women on dating apps who are clearly itching to find purpose and have kids (sometimes literally saying so), but behind that painful fake smile is that sense of 'yup just a #bossbitch nobody can bully me now that i make money and supervise people".
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2022
- Joined
- May 29, 2024
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
There's actually tons of non-alcohol social clubs and stuff out there. I would mention some stuff I've recently done but it would be too detailed for here but there really is shit out there happening most days of the week that doesn't cost money, is just people having fun and doing nerdy shit. It's a great way to meet people and to escape the trap that the only way to socialize must involve alcoholism.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2017
Thing is that going to social functions for the sake of being social attract a certain kind of person that I'm not. I don't consider myself above 48 year old alcoholics who partake in 3 volunteer projects a week, but I do consider myself respectable enough that I'd vibe with people my age in a slightly more goal-oriented setting, ie. sports. And even if you're around 48 year old alcoholics then? You get to enjoy your sport. I've seen people suggest "oh we meet here and go boating and then next week we-" and it just sounds like a super fabricated friend group.
I don't know. I take after my dad: I like to help behind the scenes of a social function only to bow out before I get any recognition. I played 6v6 TF2 for years yet I'd rather enable tryhard sweats than be one myself. Help organize. At least if you show up at the archery club twice a week, you can be the one putting up chairs and cleaning. That's the vibe I want: People hanging out but subtly hiding it behind "uhh I love archery!". Sure, it's probably sweet to partake in an ironic chess club in downtown Stockholm or whatever, but there's no longevity in it.
I think I'm just skewed by a teenage idea of socializing and friendships. Watch 5 mins of any tiktok compilation and behind the wacky hanging out, it's 3 bottom wagies who've been friends their entire life. They didn't spend a week in hong kong and make friends for life. Sure, it's the simplest shit in life to go look up a club and do a trial, but unless it turns out to be your complete calling.. eh? Being one of 3 adults, 20 in total, basically secondhand parenting a bunch of kids to tournaments. Compare that to biking, hitting up a lycra bae and arranging private trips or what have you.
Shit, you got better chances at meeting people in church at this point. If I met a practicing 31 year old in church I'd gladly sit down to ask about it for half a day. That's the power of actual interest versus "I came here to make friends".