Alcoholism Support Thread - Down the hatch

[Cougar Pump]

I mean, that's not going to happen. I'm in the UK, if I'm out even on a Sunday night I don't bat an eyelid.

But something has to change. I can't go on like this.

Not to speculate too much on your state of mind but do you think the issue is an addiction to drinking, or are you using drinking to escape the suffocation of your current life situation? Because young kid, work that takes you away a lot, I've been in a similar situation and felt trapped to the point I actively self-destructed in various ways, including drinking to excess.

I only ask because if it's the former, then direct addiction treatment makes sense. If it's the latter, understanding the triggers/causes can help enormously with not falling into the drinking habits when those feelings crop up.

You had a few people (your wife, people at the pub) asking you directly what the issue is and being unable to answer suggests you might not yet know or haven't realized that it might not be the drinking.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Not to speculate too much on your state of mind but do you think the issue is an addiction to drinking, or are you using drinking to escape the suffocation of your current life situation? Because young kid, work that takes you away a lot, I've been in a similar situation and felt trapped to the point I actively self-destructed in various ways, including drinking to excess.

I only ask because if it's the former, then direct addiction treatment makes sense. If it's the latter, understanding the triggers/causes can help enormously with not falling into the drinking habits when those feelings crop up.

You had a few people (your wife, people at the pub) asking you directly what the issue is and being unable to answer suggests you might not yet know or haven't realized that it might not be the drinking.

Thanks for the message, this is really useful to think about. I would say the stress at home has exacerbated it, but it can't just be that - I've been a heavy drinker since before my son was even born. But over the last few years it has definitely slid from being "fun" to some sort of grim obligation - drinking to get drunk, every single time.

I finally told my wife today. She didn't really want to speak to me, but I finally managed to get a minute alone with her. It wasn't as cathartic as I thought it would be. But overall it felt good. I think she could see that I am being sincere. If she doesn't trust me yet regarding getting better then that's fair, completely understandable. But at least I confessed that I'm not in control and that I do need help. By the end I think she felt sorry for me, but could see that I wasn't doing this to wriggle out of the doghouse or to get sympathy. It probably confirms a lot of things she suspected or already knew, but hearing them from me might give her some hope that I can change.

Fuck, I never felt so pathetic as when she asked me where I went last night, and I had to say "the pub". Urgh. What am I doing? Why am I ruining my life?

Start a spreadsheet for the shit and just write sober or not sober, and also better to also measure how much you drink when you're not sober. The importance of writing sober/not sober is purely rooted in the fact that even if you have half a beer, it still counts as a non-sober day

Thanks for this as well. But I think I need a period of complete sobriety, at least for a while. I don't trust myself with half a beer. It's never half a beer. I can tell you without a spreadsheet that sober days have only been one or two per week for the whole year. Just constant drinking, there's always an excuse. Meeting friends, watching sport, celebrating this, commiseratinng that. Drink drink drink. I don't want to do this any more. I wake up every day feeling like shit. I'm so tired.

 

[neger psykolog]

Thanks for this as well. But I think I need a period of complete sobriety, at least for a while. I don't trust myself with half a beer. It's never half a beer. I can tell you without a spreadsheet that sober days have only been one or two per week for the whole year. Just constant drinking, there's always an excuse. Meeting friends, watching sport, celebrating this, commiseratinng that. Drink drink drink. I don't want to do this any more. I wake up every day feeling like shit. I'm so tired.

Yes it sounds like going completely sober would be ideal.

But its also all the more reason to start a spreadsheet/calendar where you can mark down you're sober each day. If you're successful then it will feel good to have a long column of the word "sober". Depending on how your life is if you're not drinking you'll need to find some other things to do instead of it so its useful to keep a journal like that.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Yes it sounds like going completely sober would be ideal.

But its also all the more reason to start a spreadsheet/calendar where you can mark down you're sober each day. If you're successful then it will feel good to have a long column of the word "sober". Depending on how your life is if you're not drinking you'll need to find some other things to do instead of it so its useful to keep a journal like that.

Actually yes, that's a great idea. I'll start keeping a record, just to put "sober" every day as a reminder.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Keep it simple and take it one day at a time. Glad to hear you're taking positive steps.

 

[Jerk Sausage]

It wasn't as cathartic as I thought it would be. But overall it felt good.

A big pattern in my life was:

• Drunkenly or selfishly hurt someone.
• Realize the next day what an asshole I was.
• Desperately want that person to forgive me or tell me everything is okay.
• Forget about it and pretend nothing happened.
• Repeat.

I was lucky in having a lot of forgiving family members or relationships who were capable of telling me what I wanted to hear. Don't worry about it, water under the bridge, you were drunk and didn't mean it, these things happen, don't do it again, etc. Eventually people got tired of that pattern, and disappeared or didn't tell me the things I wanted to hear.

I think she could see that I am being sincere.

This is not your concern. Whether she does or doesn't is not the important factor. I felt the same way. I needed my wife, or my family, or my friends to tell me that all is forgiven and they know I'm for real this time. Then I'd get comfortable once I had their trust back. Then I'd say, ah, things are so good and comfortable now. Then I would repeat the same things.

Consistency is key. People are forgiving, but people get tired of forgiving. You'll never know when you've crossed the last line with someone until after you've crossed it.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

Remember that apologizing and making amends is about cleaning up your shit, not getting sympathy. Do not make promises about changing if you're not going to change. You cannot get sober for your wife, your kids, your friends, your career, or anyone else. You have to do it for yourself.

 

[dick brain]

Yes it sounds like going completely sober would be ideal.

But its also all the more reason to start a spreadsheet/calendar where you can mark down you're sober each day. If you're successful then it will feel good to have a long column of the word "sober". Depending on how your life is if you're not drinking you'll need to find some other things to do instead of it so its useful to keep a journal like that.

This can be a double edged sword. On one hand, having a streak going is a good motivator and more importantly a good barometer of where your body and mind are at in terms of withdrawal and recovery and what symptoms you can expect and what thought patterns to be on the lookout for. On the other hand, if/when you fuck up, it makes it very easy to keep fucking up and turn a lapse into a relapse since you don't have a streak to throw away anymore. It can also incentivize you to lie to yourself or others, telling yourself "that didn't count" or "that didn't happen", which is a slippery slope. And the shame can keep you from seeking help as well. That's not to say it's not a good idea, but be aware of the danger in it, and be mindful of how it affects your behavior.

Remember that apologizing and making amends is about cleaning up your shit, not getting sympathy. Do not make promises about changing if you're not going to change. You cannot get sober for your wife, your kids, your friends, your career, or anyone else. You have to do it for yourself.

I'd dispute this as well. I think you have to reach a point where you're doing it for yourself, partly because doing it for someone else can lead to resentment and partly because you're the only person who can truly hold yourself accountable, but I've seen at least a couple people reach that point by first doing it for someone else. And if that's enough to get somebody started on the right path without having to really hit bottom, I'd call it a positive. There's always the chance that it'll backfire and the sense of deprivation will poison your view of the person you're doing it for, but somebody susceptible to that mindset is probably going to fuck up that relationship either way. At the end of the day recovery is largely about developing a sense of awareness of your thoughts and feelings and behaviors, and I think once you're in the habit of that it's not difficult to get from a place of "I'm doing this for my wife" to "I'm doing this for myself", especially once you start feeling the benefits of sobriety. Whatever gets you through the door.

 

[Jerk Sausage]

I've never kept a sobriety spreadsheet, but private spreadsheets tracking my fitness and finances are highly motivating. If I were being private about my sobriety, I see the value.

That shame you see as a potential drawback of counting days actually stopped me from drinking once. Early in sobriety, I was alone in a room by myself with a fridge full of beer in a completely different country. Nobody would've known, but I pictured the guys who knew me, and imagined having to tell them that I slipped. I didn't want to lie anymore, so I stopped myself from drinking so that I didn't have to lie. Wasn't doing it for myself quite yet at that point, but trusting others who trusted me to be honest did.

And yes, starting sobriety for another person is fine. Inevitably a day will come where you are upset with them or far enough away from them, so you say "fuck it" and don't care about yourself enough to stay sober for yourself. Taking responsibility for yourself doesn't have to happen day 1, but it does have to happen. If I'm doing it for my family and my family all leaves or perishes, do I still have a reason to not drink?

 

[Neighborhood Janny]

Celebrated 4 years clean and serene on July 25th. There's hope out there guys, ya just gotta find it.

 

[neger psykolog]

This can be a double edged sword. On one hand, having a streak going is a good motivator and more importantly a good barometer of where your body and mind are at in terms of withdrawal and recovery and what symptoms you can expect and what thought patterns to be on the lookout for. On the other hand, if/when you fuck up, it makes it very easy to keep fucking up and turn a lapse into a relapse since you don't have a streak to throw away anymore. It can also incentivize you to lie to yourself or others, telling yourself "that didn't count" or "that didn't happen", which is a slippery slope. And the shame can keep you from seeking help as well. That's not to say it's not a good idea, but be aware of the danger in it, and be mindful of how it affects your behavior.

I do see your point but I will also say that change has to start from somewhere and you can hold yourself accountable. You can of course overdo it because no one will be as hard of a judge on you as yourself (unless you're DSP) but it can at least help to start setting targets.

The idea isn't too become a saint, beat yourself up every day or to do nothing and never change, but rather to start with stepping stones in building a better you progressively. You'll probably make mistakes and fall down every now and then and that's ok - the point isn't to destroy yourself but just to measure shit. It took me a lot of measuring (and a long period of giving it up) to come to where I am today.

It's good to balance this kind of stuff with friends/family support networks and the like also. I never really shared mine with anyone so that there was no incentive to lie - I was the only person that would ever see it so I was the only person I could disappoint.

It really depends on your mentality I suppose and isn't a one solution fits all kind of framework though - I do think at the very least for people who have problems with drinking you should measure how much you drink as a baseline so you can actually understand it. There is a big difference in saying "I get drunk too much" vs "I have 12 beers each night" because with the latter option you can at least start to do things like just buy a 6 pack whereas if its just "I get drunk too much" you don't even know where to start.

 

[dick brain]

I do see your point but I will also say that change has to start from somewhere and you can hold yourself accountable. You can of course overdo it because no one will be as hard of a judge on you as yourself (unless you're DSP) but it can at least help to start setting targets.

The idea isn't too become a saint, beat yourself up every day or to do nothing and never change, but rather to start with stepping stones in building a better you progressively. You'll probably make mistakes and fall down every now and then and that's ok.

It's good to balance this kind of stuff with friends/family support networks and the like also. I never really shared mine with anyone so that there was no incentive to lie - I was the only person that would ever see it so I was the only person I could disappoint.

It really depends on your mentality I suppose and isn't a one solution fits all kind of framework though - I do think at the very least for people who have problems with drinking you should measure how much you drink as a baseline so you can actually understand it. There is a big difference in saying "I get drunk too much" vs "I have 12 beers each night" because with the latter option you can at least start to do things like just buy a 6 pack whereas if its just "I get drunk too much" you don't even know where to start.

I log the day count on all my vices every time I journal. Like I said, I'm not telling anybody to not do it, just to be aware of the traps you can fall into because of it.

 

[neger psykolog]

I log the day count on all my vices every time I journal. Like I said, I'm not telling anybody to not do it, just to be aware of the traps you can fall into because of it.

By the way, once you've done it long enough you can just hide (not delete) the earlier entries so you don't have to see them all the time.

 

[dick brain]

By the way, once you've done it long enough you can just hide (not delete) the earlier entries so you don't have to see them all the time.

idgi

 

[neger psykolog]

idgi

On a lot of calorie/exercise/health apps you'll only see today or the last week at most unless you go into a zoomed out/trend view.

So basically you don't need to be confronted with the fact you fucked up and had a drink last week every time you open your spreadsheet, you can just hide the most recent month or whatever and then in the grand scheme of things your internal mentality is "in the last month I was sober 97% of the time, what a great achievement" instead of shitting yourself out for having a single "non sober" day.

TLDR: its psychology. I'm sure there are apps that do the same thing as the spreadsheet thing I proposed by the way, it is just that I personally found an entirely custom system/approach was what ended up working best for me - there were many things besides alcohol I measured and it is one of the reasons I fully came to understand that my depression/anxiety levels were somewhat heavily correlated to alcohol intake.

edit: when you first start something like this you're going to be putting things in for a week or two - but once you've done it for 1000+ days the way you look at things starts to change.

 

[Clem Fandango]

I downloaded the AlcoDiary app, and made a custom drink called "Sober Day" (500ml, 0% alcohol) that I'm going to add every night before bed. Aiming to do 100 days completely sober, just as a reset and get some feeling of control back. After that hopefully I can use it to track and set limits per week.

I don't plan on being 100% sober for the rest of my life, but right now I don't trust myself to "just have one". But that's the ultimate goal for me - I used to love going out for a couple of pints after work with my missus. It was so much fun, and it didn't turn into an all evening bender. We'd go home after and cook our dinner together. I want to get back to that level.

I also told a few people. Like my mum, and my drinking buddy in London. I get what you guys are saying about doing it for yourself. But personally I like the idea of being accountable to others. The idea of letting someone else down motivates me (and frankly it was important to let my mate know what I'm doing since he'd be texting me about meeting up for drinks).

Day one was yesterday, hopefully I'm back in this thread on November 12 telling you that I did it.

 

[Taki Supremacy]

just as a reset and get some feeling of control back

Even if you do manage to make it one hundred days, you will revert back to how you are now within a week, maybe a month if your lucky.

I don't plan on being 100% sober for the rest of my life, but right now I don't trust myself to "just have one".

Your very close to figuring this out. This statement is a little sad to me.

I used to love going out for a couple of pints after work with my missus. It was so much fun, and it didn't turn into an all evening bender. We'd go home after and cook our dinner together. I want to get back to that level.

It's over buddy. This path to achieving nirvana is closed off to you, find new ways to get there.

I get what you guys are saying about doing it for yourself. But personally I like the idea of being accountable to others. The idea of letting someone else down motivates me

You will let them down. And when you do you will not be insane. You will be you. Your decision to throw them away will make perfect sense, as normal as the sun coming up in the morning.

Just stop.

I promise you, after 21 years of drinking, I'm saving you a lot of trouble, heartache, health problems, mental problems.

Just stop.

 

[trent]

Even if you do manage to make it one hundred days, you will revert back to how you are now within a week, maybe a month if your lucky.

Your very close to figuring this out. This statement is a little sad to me.

It's over buddy. This path to achieving nirvana is closed off to you, find new ways to get there.

You will let them down. And when you do you will not be insane. You will be you. Your decision to throw them away will make perfect sense, as normal as the sun coming up in the morning.

Just stop.

I promise you, after 21 years of drinking, I'm saving you a lot of trouble, heartache, health problems, mental problems.

Just stop.

Literally everyone i know that had/has a drinking problem says exactly that.

If your drinking gets to the point where it is ruining your life and you either have to stop or lose everything then you are never going to get back to "just a few" or "only on special occasions".

You'll start out small with all the good intentions in the world but you'll end up as bad (if not worse) as you were within a few weeks.

 

[Clem Fandango]

Even if you do manage to make it one hundred days, you will revert back to how you are now within a week, maybe a month if your lucky.



Your very close to figuring this out. This statement is a little sad to me.



It's over buddy. This path to achieving nirvana is closed off to you, find new ways to get there.




You will let them down. And when you do you will not be insane. You will be you. Your decision to throw them away will make perfect sense, as normal as the sun coming up in the morning.

Just stop.

I promise you, after 21 years of drinking, I'm saving you a lot of trouble, heartache, health problems, mental problems.

Just stop.

You may well be right, depressing as it is to read that. Maybe there's no path back to moderation for me. Where I am right now, I certainly can't tell you you're wrong.

All I can do is take it one day at a time. I figure even if I relapse on day 101, it's still worth doing this. Hell, even if I fail, it's still worth trying.

Im not going to trot out all the platitudes about self-improvement and changing. We've all heard them a thousand times before from a thousand different addicts. Right now I'm at the bottom and I need to climb my way back to the top. I don't want to get this low again.

 

[neger psykolog]

Even if you do manage to make it one hundred days, you will revert back to how you are now within a week, maybe a month if your lucky.

If your drinking gets to the point where it is ruining your life and you either have to stop or lose everything then you are never going to get back to "just a few" or "only on special occasions".

These are totally not true and to be frank fucking retarded. This is a totally bizarre thing to claim and I believe comes from the AA school of thought were only totally abstaining forever is seen as the only option and although my words may sound heated, I think this mindset is frankly fucking stupid because it basically says to people directly or indirectly: "improving yourself doesn't count unless you totally stop doing [bad thing], even if you cut it down by 80% and only do it on weekends you're a total failure unless you cut it off 100% - you may as well not even bother unless you're going for 100%"

You can feel free to believe that but there are other schools of thought out there that do not work on this basis and I personally know several people (including myself) who have taken breaks from alcohol and/or successfully lowered their alcohol intake without completely stopping and at least found some better balance from doing so.

On top of that many people who aren't completely out of control alcoholics take successful breaks from alcohol for reasons of mental health, diet and general health/wellbeing or just plain discipline and some of them drink less or stop drinking after doing so.

"you will revert to failure" or "Even if you do manage" is a totally absurd position to take or even tell someone - you're basically saying "don't even try" with that stance so I really don't understand it. You don't know if they will revert or if they won't.

It is up to an individual person to be able to measure the problem and how it relates to their life and set goals on how to try and fix it and to also develop a relationship/better understanding of what they get and don't get out of alcohol.