Alternate History - Thing happened in real life, so what if thing NOT happened?

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.

Karakhalkin-Gol

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
ATTN: Do not confuse this thread for the Shitty Alternate History Thread. That thread serves more to house and showcase low quality alt. History content.

Alternate history is an interesting topic that much of this forum has a taste for. Discuss what never was and what could've been. Or just ramble on about your preffered series to your hearts content.

Heres a starter to get the thread going: What if Mexico's war for Independence failed?
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Romeo
If Mexico's war for independence failed, I suspect the Spanish Empire would have retained some level of control over the region for a few more decades, but Spanish rule in Mexico would evaporate by 1850-1860 unless they restructure the colony to prevent another war. After the Spanish-American War it would be pretty much entirely independent, unless the war doesn't happen because of a Spanish satellite state being just south of the US. Texas might not be annexed by the US depending on the political climate.
 
Ahhhh.... I love alternate history. I love thinking about the many different ways humanity could have gone, so many possibilities.

My two favorite alternate history scenarios are the 1938 A Very British Civil War wargaming and the 1983: Doomsday.
 
What if... no religion has ever been made?

No egyptian gods, or greek gods, christianity judaism, or atheism
 
What if the USA managed to get all the British possessions in North America, either on the revolution itself or by getting what would become Canada in the war of 1812?
It would probably fast-forward the tensions over slavery. The southern, slave-holding elite would be compelled to push for expansion in the South faster so that the number of slave and free states isn't too far out of equilibrium, while the northern states would probably be more interested in hunkering down with Canada. This might actually be good, as with less time for attitudes over slavery to calcify, the southern elite might be able to be brought to the negotiating table.

Catholics might end up in a better position ITTL as well. The presence of a large Catholic population in the USA, and said population not leading to Catholic theocracy might see a warming of relations between Protestant and Catholics.
 
I like that there is an entire genre of French fiction based around the premise of "Si la France avait continue la guerre" in 1940.

The armistice left such an enduring scar upon their national psyche that to this the French are fantasizing about how it could have gone differently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EpicGamerMoment
Ahhhh.... I love alternate history. I love thinking about the many different ways humanity could have gone, so many possibilities.

My two favorite alternate history scenarios are the 1938 A Very British Civil War wargaming and the 1983: Doomsday.

1983 Doomsday is pretty good but I am also a sucker for Protect and Survive as another amazingly written Nuclear War TL. It really is a miracle we did not destroy ourselves with nukes during the 20th century. That luck might not hold for the 21st.
 
What if Marquis de Sade got his wish and the French implemented sexual communism
Every citizen's needs must be fulfilled by every other citizens' means

What if the USA managed to get all the British possessions in North America, either on the revolution itself or by getting what would become Canada in the war of 1812?
I'm curious about scenarios where more British possessions in the Caribbean (instead of Canada) revolt. As I understand the Bahamas had revolutionary activity that nearly boiled over but it was quelled, and not long before the Revolution Jamaica (Barbados? Bermuda? one of them) gained the distinction of being the only British colony to ever have its governor murdered by a public mob (because he was fucking other men's wives).
 
I'm curious about scenarios where more British possessions in the Caribbean (instead of Canada) revolt. As I understand the Bahamas had revolutionary activity that nearly boiled over but it was quelled, and not long before the Revolution Jamaica (Barbados? Bermuda? one of them) gained the distinction of being the only British colony to ever have its governor murdered by a public mob (because he was fucking other men's wives).
You could tie revolutionary activity in British possessions in the Caribbean with pirates. The Republic of Pirates, lead by the Flying Gang which has such famous leaders such as Benjamin Hornigold and Blackbeard himself, operated from 1706 all the way to 1718.

In a scenario where that revolutionary fever spread beyond the Bahamas to other colonial possessions, be they other British territories like Jamaica or other colonial empires in the Caribbean like France and Spain, I could see many different scenarios.

Most realistically is that the pirates become bickering warlords of their various domains, with some taking a crack at establishing a proper nation while others decide to make thief states whose sole purpose is to be plundered and lorded over by pirate crews.

More idealistically, you could see the pirates unite under a common ideal, like the famous Pirate codes except elevated to the role of the American Constitution. You could have a proto United States established in the Caribbean decades earlier with each ship crew and island operating like a distinct American State.

Or you could see a more powerful and famous Pirate, Blackbeard or Black Bart for the more famous figures, unite the revolution into a more centralized authority where the pirates collectively reign over their new nation as the new nobility and elites, providing a more centralized resistance to the far away colonial empires.

However the revolution is started, the effects of an earlier revolution against a colonial empire succeeding could see interesting outcomes.

Do the colonial empires change how they treat their other colonies to discourage additional revolution, like the British did with Canada, only this time applied to all North America and other holdings?

With an earlier revolution, do the European states react differently? Maybe Ancien Regime France averts the French revolution because effects of the Sun King Louis XIV and Louis the Beloved are there with more effective administration and suppression to keep royal France in place.

The possibilities one can do with such a scenario are indeed numerous.
 
One scenario that's piqued my interest from time to time is from the Sengoku Jidai period for Japan. What would have happened if Oda Nobunaga lived long enough to unite Japan under his boot rather than Hideyoshi or Tokugawa?
 
Well, I came to the realization that being on KF, we don't need to pussyfoot around with Nazis. I'm not going "Hitler did nothing wrong," mind you, I'm more glad that they don't need to be the caricatures of ultimate evil they are on ah.com; simultaneously so evil that they can't be taken seriously, and yet so incompotent they couldn't pose any real threat. I like the idea of doing a Nazi victory timeline where the Reich isn't the cartoon villains of Anglo-American Nazi War or In the Footprint of Mussolini, nor doomed to something like The New Order or Thousand-Week Reich where they're bound to implode in a decade or two. The Nazis can be human, which IMO is more horrific.

I also don't care as much for following strictly with the "realism" of ah.com to be honest. I know the Nazis winning is exceptionally unlikely, but that isn't really an answer to the question of "What would it be like if they did win?" Yet you can't seriously discuss it on ah.com anymore, with most of them seemingly just going "lol not possible" and dismissing the actual discussion. I think the actual possibilities of what Germany would do in a victory scenario are fascinating beyond belief, and rarely given the serious thought they deserve.

Anyways, I chugged a few energy drinks and banged out a quick sketch for an actual timeline. Seeing as the prior discussion in the SAH Thread proposed the idea of escalating this discussion up to sub-forum status, I figure we'll need a few actual timelines at some point. Might as well try and get the ball rolling. Please be as cruel and harsh as possible, I spent exactly zero time researching this and haven't really given it enough thought. I'm bound to have fucked up somewhere, so additional information would be nice.

On September 8th, 1935, Carl Weiss takes aim at and attempts to kill Senator Huey Long, the controversial State Senator of Louisiana. Weiss is gunned down, dying on the scene. By some miracle, Weiss’ shots at Long missed and the Senator lives. An investigation of Weiss eventually leads to the discovery of a conspiracy involving President Roosevelt, Wall Street, and Standard Oil to have Long assassinated.

Roosevelt is impeached and arrested. John Garner becomes President, Garner's reputation remaining intact due to his carrying the torch to prosecute several of the businessmen also involved. Long manages to win the 1936 Democratic nomination for President, and despite most conservative Democrats rallying behind Garner for a third candidate, Long wins the 1936 election. Long’s Presidency sees him repeat his process in Louisiana on the Federal level, with Long stacking many political positions. Portions of Long’s Share Our Wealth program are passed, however opposition to Long rapidly grows and becomes increasingly radical. Militant organizations like the Klan, Black Legion, Silver Legion, Anti-Fascist League, and the newly founded “American Protection Society” grew rapidly in opposition to Long. The anti-Long Democrats also officially break with the Democratic Party to form the States'-Rights Party.

Political tensions across the USA escalate, and by July, 1938, an estimated three million Americans are participating in one or more radical opposition group. The Klan alone rebounded to north of half a million members. Long however has also assumed more or less total control over the Federal government, even successfully passing a bill that packs the Supreme Court. Then, during Independence celebrations on July 4th, Long is assassinated by Anarchists.

Burton K. Wheeler, Long's VP who was largely chosen to smooth over fears in the DNC, becomes President. Wheeler was not particularly pro-Share Our Wealth, but continues to push for a more moderate set of reforms. The United States remains polarized, but Wheeler is successfully able to reduce tensions somewhat, and the ongoing crackdown keeps the violence under control. Wheeler is able to successfully rally enough people to keep the Democratic Party in control of Congress in the 1938 midterms. When WW2 breaks out in 1939, Wheeler signs the American Neutrality Act which forbids the sale of war material or loans being given to the governments of the belligerents. Wheeler's government also cracks down on many of the militant groups in the United States without significant success.

WW2 continues relatively unchanged until 1940 during the fall of France where there is no miracle at Dunkirk, and the BEF is annihilated. The subsequent political crisis brings down the government of Churchill, and snap elections are called in August. A pro-peace government is brought into power and Britain signs an armistice with Germany. Despite Barbarossa beginning during the peace negotiations, Britain quickly loses any appetite to resume the war and (temporarily) accepts German hegemony in Europe.

Japan still seizes Indochina as per OTL, but no sanctions are placed upon Japan by the United States as President Wheeler, reelected in 1940, vetoes proposed sanctions. Britain also begins to seek rapprochement with Japan, seeking an alliance with Japan for a hypothetical resumption of the war with Germany. With trade upticks from Britain, and America not cutting off oil, Japan is able to continue its war with China unabated.

The German invasion of the USSR begins much like OTL, however with one massive difference. Stalin, fearing that he is going to be arrested (as per OTL) drinks himself into a stupor and chokes on his own vomit. In the aftermath, the USSR undergoes a period of internal strife even as the Wehrmacht storms into the country. The Germans successfully seize Leningrad and Moscow during 1941, with the defenses of both having been thrown into disarray by the ongoing internal struggles. Stalingrad and Kuybyshev fall in 1942, and by 1944 organized Russian resistance collapses entirely. The Greater Germanic Reich is proclaimed as German troops begin to secure the southern Urals. A rump Soviet regime holds on in Omsk, with Lavrentiy Beria emerging as General-Secretary.

The implementation of Aktion (Generalplan Ost and the Hunger Plan) in the eastern RKs begins to leak out into the broader world by 1943. In the United States, horror at the atrocities starts to break America out of its isolationist shell. Britain speeds up rapprochement with Japan, and pursuing friendly relations with America. With Hitler also engaging in a degree of saber-rattling in response to American condemnation, Americans begin to panic, fearing the possibility of a German invasion. This would lead to the 1944 election seeing the defeat of Wheeler and the isolationist Democrats by a Republican and States'-Rights coalition. Republican Harold Stassen became President, while States'-Rights Theodore G. Bilbo became VP.

The new interventionist government signs an alliance with Britain, Cuba, Brazil, Ireland, and Columbia in 1946. This alliance, informally dubbed the Havana Accords, positions itself in quasi-opposition to the Triparte Pact. Over the next two years several more nations sign to the Accords, while Spain and France officially join the Pact. Tensions between Germany and America continue to degrade, with both going though internal struggles during the late 1940s. Germany struggles to maintain order over Europe, with the ongoing guerilla resistance to Generalplan Ost being an ever malignant ulcer while the United States struggles to maintain political unity.

1947 sees the first major post-WW2 conflict as tensions between the increasingly left-wing Mexican government and the United States finally spills over into outright war. Germany intervenes by sending material, while Spain serves as a front for small groups of “volunteers” to assist the Mexicans. The Second Mexican-American War both provides justification for the United States to bulk up its army, and escalates the militancy of the isolationist elements within the United States. German aid to the Mexicans also escalates the tensions between the United States and Germans, and as 1948 draws to a close, both nations look on the verge of war.

On October 14th, 1948, events took a sudden and unexpected turn. Just after giving a speech to a group of veterans from RK Caucasus, Adolf Hitler collapses. He is pronounced dead two days later, a victim of a fatal brain hemorrhage. The Reich totters on the brink of crisis over the next several months as the risk of putsch or civil war looms. Despite the odds, Hitler’s successor Hermann Goering holds onto the reins of power, becoming the new President of the Reich with Joseph Goebbels as Chancellor.

Under Goering’s leadership, relations between the Reich and America improved somewhat, at least at first. However the Reich’s increasing influence in South America, and the Americans’ support for anti-German resistance in the Reichskommissariats and vassals leads to relations declining once again. Relations only further degrade as the two nations fight proxy conflicts in Indonesia, Peru, and Iran against each other.

In 1951, Alfred Rosenberg replaced Joseph Goebbels as Chancellor. This is largely in response to the latter’s disagreement with President Goering’s “Pragmatismus” campaign in regards to Generalplan Ost. Rosenberg, who sees the Slavs as not needing outright annihilation, is able to begin stabilizing the Reich’s eastern territories. This stabilization being the critical event by which the Reich is able to adopt an ever-increasingly confrontational attitude with America.

The 1952 elections in the USA prove somewhat contentious, but with the looming threat of Germany, both the Democrats and the Republican/States’-Rights coalition hold back on the more contentious tactics. Claude Pepper, a Democrat Senator from Florida, is elected President. Pepper brings back much of the old Share the Wealth programs albeit moderated, but in contrast to Long and Wheeler, Pepper is a solid interventionist.

The revitalized Reich, and the more oppositional America spell disaster for world peace. Both Reich and America begin to square up their political spheres in preparation for a showdown. Most of the British Empire is drawn into American orbit, although India once again revolts in 1953 which drags on the British effort. Italy was now led by the newly appointed Duce, Alessandro Pavolini, following Mussolini’s death by cancer and would renew its alliance with Germany in 1953 as well. Japan kept public neutrality during this period, although curiously their puppet regime in China nominally signed an agreement with Germany. The rest of the Americas nominally aligned with America while portions of the Middle East sided with Germany.

By mid-1954, the Reich and America formally broke relations. Across the planet, millions waited as catastrophe played out in slow motion; unstoppable and inevitable, the Letzterkampf approached. Every incident was screamed by the papers to be the final straw, the final outrage by the other party. Despite this, it took nearly a year for the actual incident to start the shooting.

On June 14th, 1955, a German U-boat accidentally strayed into British waters. Upon rising, the craft was sunk by the British. Germany accused Britain of hostile actions, the British claimed likewise, and after a week of ever-escalating demands, Germany sent one final ultimatum to Britain. Twenty-four hours later, it would be rejected by unanimous decree of Parliament.

The Reich responded by declaring war on Britain. The Third World War had begun.


You could tie revolutionary activity in British possessions in the Caribbean with pirates. The Republic of Pirates, lead by the Flying Gang which has such famous leaders such as Benjamin Hornigold and Blackbeard himself, operated from 1706 all the way to 1718.

In a scenario where that revolutionary fever spread beyond the Bahamas to other colonial possessions, be they other British territories like Jamaica or other colonial empires in the Caribbean like France and Spain, I could see many different scenarios.

Most realistically is that the pirates become bickering warlords of their various domains, with some taking a crack at establishing a proper nation while others decide to make thief states whose sole purpose is to be plundered and lorded over by pirate crews.

More idealistically, you could see the pirates unite under a common ideal, like the famous Pirate codes except elevated to the role of the American Constitution. You could have a proto United States established in the Caribbean decades earlier with each ship crew and island operating like a distinct American State.

Or you could see a more powerful and famous Pirate, Blackbeard or Black Bart for the more famous figures, unite the revolution into a more centralized authority where the pirates collectively reign over their new nation as the new nobility and elites, providing a more centralized resistance to the far away colonial empires.

However the revolution is started, the effects of an earlier revolution against a colonial empire succeeding could see interesting outcomes.

Do the colonial empires change how they treat their other colonies to discourage additional revolution, like the British did with Canada, only this time applied to all North America and other holdings?

With an earlier revolution, do the European states react differently? Maybe Ancien Regime France averts the French revolution because effects of the Sun King Louis XIV and Louis the Beloved are there with more effective administration and suppression to keep royal France in place.

The possibilities one can do with such a scenario are indeed numerous.
The idea of "Pirates of the Caribbean" not being a decent-to-mediocre movie series, but a series of revolutionary republics rising against their European masters is amazing.

The biggest trouble, I would have to imagine, would be slavery. Some of the Caribbean islands were majority slave, I'm not sure how well a pirate republic could be established among such a class. I know pirates recruited from slaves on occasion, but AFAIK they never pulled a majority of their crews from such a source. In a revolutionary state, the slaves might start getting some ideas, and we'd see little Haitis start popping up where you have slave rebels, pirates, and the colonial governments all waging a three way clusterfuck for control.

Still sounds pretty fun TBH, the idea of the sheer chaos trashing one of the most valuable set of colonial holdings in the early 18th century is cool.
 
If Mexico's war for independence failed, I suspect the Spanish Empire would have retained some level of control over the region for a few more decades, but Spanish rule in Mexico would evaporate by 1850-1860 unless they restructure the colony to prevent another war. After the Spanish-American War it would be pretty much entirely independent, unless the war doesn't happen because of a Spanish satellite state being just south of the US. Texas might not be annexed by the US depending on the political climate.
If I recall correctly, Mexico was one of the most monarchist regions of Latin America - certainly it was the only to even try homegrown monarchy - and could have easily wound up the Spanish equivalent of Canada.

i also like the idea of something happening with the Spanish Conspiracy (Spanish attempt to seduce Tennessee and Kentucky to becoming Spanish protectorates to kneecap pre-Louisiana Purchase America).
 
@Skeletonized Cow

I agree with your complaints about how AH seems to treat the Nazis as being so incompetent in their stories that it boggles the mind that they could even win the the Second World War in their stories without collapsing into a civil war the second Hitler coughs too long.

For your story, I enjoyed it and it is fairly compact. The affects of Long being president do indeed cause massive differences (like being neutral in ww2) but I feel like more minor differences should also show up.

Long during his time as Louisianan governor showed a proclivity to using soldiers to get his way, such as using national guard units to bust gambling dens without invoking martial law and encouraging soldiers to shoot first, ask questions later. Thus, I feel that he and future presidents should be seen more encouraged to use soldiers to get their way, creating a far more authoritarian presidency earlier that's not afraid of sicking soldiers on Americans. Also after successfully packing the Supreme Court, I imagine that with that cat out of the bag that other parties would follow suit to "correct" Long's packing with their own Court packing.

Another criticism would Beria taking power after Stalin as Beria was so unpopular that it didn't take long before every power player in Moscow ganged up to depose Beria and have him shot. This was despite Beria basically being part of the triumvirate group to succeed Stalin in power.

Other than these nit-picks, good story.
 
There is a more extreme version I like of Alternate history where you take X people from there place and time and move them to another, there is a great book shared universe called "The Ring of Fire" where a town called Grantville (based on Mannington West Virginia) is sent back in time to the year 1632 Germany and all the changes that would happen Political, Societal, Technological, Religious Doctrines, etc

It's written with a lot of attention to detail and historical accuracy i.e. it's very had to make brass in the grade used in cartridges so the USE troops who get issues uptime guns have young lads with them acting as brass catchers, they have a problem expanding the town because they don't have many brick makers locally and no prepaird an seasoned clay so they have to resort to mixing downtime and uptime building techniques, the problem of combining uptime education with downtime education systems, change in social attitudes i.e. The Women in Grantville can do that why can't I? The farmers who are parts of Granges (a type of co-op) work better and grow more maybe we should look at setting one up? acts of philanthropy being done not just through the church but directly to the people, Introduction of Paper Money, basic radio sets being created......


It really goes on but there is a few story groups that stand out, KudzuWerks a guy who's Dellboy on steroids who does manage to get a big win finds a down on his luck Journyman Blacksmith who he talks to and get's really friendly with who sets him up in his own shop and they make some of the best tools based on Uptime knowledge but constantly expand into furniture, bikes and even lead a hand to the early days off...

... The Higgens sewing machine Company, a bunch of kids get together to make a sewing machine based off the treadle one one of there grandparents have, and get some financial support from some older girls called "The Barbie consortium" who got rich by selling there Barbie Dolls to rich families that let's them end up opening an investment Bank... who secretly fund the work of "The Committees of Correspondence"...

Started by a former (forced) camp follower in the Grantville McDonalds days after the battle of the crapper and use the Golden Arches of the M as there logo who step in where governments can't or wont, so things like Public Sanitation work, hunting Rats, getting working women off the street and into good honest work by giving them sewing machines, access to help and education, basic doctors services, they also set up Orphanages up in areas effected by the War... They also sell Freedom Fries after the Uptimers introduce the idea that Potatoes where not just pig food or an aphrodisiac....

The leads me to The Celebrated Doctor Gribbleflox, a early modern scientist and scholar who's a descendant of a Great Alchemist who wants to live upto his ancestors reputation but is down on his luck - the uptimers need someone to help them make Baking Soda and he reluctantly agree's - and he becomes a millionaire over night and starts dressing like a Pimp from the 70's, ends up marrying a woman 20 years younger (who does genuinely love him) and he's then asked to make Asprin (he already does this for himself) and charges them $20 a pill (they are selling them for $300 a pill) and insists that he makes them blue because its a calming colour and one of his uptime patrons calls them "Little Blue pills of Joy" this get's him curious and he finds out about Viagra and can't reproduce the results but ends up inventing a pair of Sex Pants....

On the subject of Pant's - Jeans have become a high status fashion item and one former Mine Worker gets notorious and famous for essentially becoming the USE's James Bond - Harry Leffarts, and two fashion styles are in vouge because of him the Lafferti and Lefferto, the former are really flamboyant and have and embroidered style of Frock Coats made from Blue dennim and wide brimmed flat caps, the others are more classic and have tailored jacket and jeans and a flat cap with a Deer on it - Both carry short Swords based off his Bowie Knife and a Copy of a Revolver, but Jeans become a real social sticking point very popular with Farmers, Miners and Other workmen but Women start wanting them too because the Grantville women do and the men see no wrong in it and it goes as far as being on the meeting schedule in the Vatican, Where Harry and his Friends had to help Rescue the Pope...


Yea there is way over 50 mainline books now and thousands of short storys that are part of the official canon. You will find something to scratch your itch in that series.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Capsaicin Addict
Those are called "ISOTs" named after the book "Island in the Sea of Time" by S.M. Stirling. It pretty much created the genre, though the Ring of Fire series would be the one to really catapult it into mainstream and popularize the way things tend to be done in such settings. It also named the forum on AH.com for fantastical timeline, the ASB forum, as in 1632 and the Ring of Fire series the time travel transport is caused by a race of "alien space bats" who keep autistically making space-time anomalies as "art" and when their shitty modern art breaks it sends a blast towards Earth that causes it.

The Ring of Fire series has some real good stuff on them. The people feel real and nice. Loads of good plots and plenty of fun. I am a big fan of it, and a lot of the side stories are plenty fun. A good somewhat less well known book in the series is the Josheph Hanauer story, originally published as a serial in 3 parts. It is about a jew and his family making their way out of Germany and into Poland just before the Ring of Fire happens, and how they react to it and eventually come to Grantville. Them being jews provides a really cool contrast to both the downtime germans and the uptime americans. Almost feels like a first contact story but from the perspective of the alien which is pretty kino to me.

Quite a few good timelines and stories to be had with such scenarios. However like most of alternate history nowadays political sperging has been taking over and making such stories very boring. They tend to devolved into "le Enlightened modern progressives enlighten the backwards downtimers and get us to modern day morals in a pinch while owning chuds and bigots" which is hilarious and insane. As if you would be able to convince say, 1940's USA to legalize gay marriage or say trans rights just because some 2020 city of 10k people shows up. Actual published ISOTs tend to be less egregious about it but may end up still falling for it.

Axis of Time was another of such ISOT stories, where a UN task force navy operation gets sent back from 2022 to 1942 from Indonesia to Midway. It was however written in 2004 so it doesn't have too much "le LGBT progress" to interfere but it does make some hilariously wrong and retarded predictions about what 2022 would look like where the writer basically expected the 2003-4 enthusiasm for the War on Terror to be going on non stop, far more Muslim sperging (they were in Indonesia because a huge radical islam revolution had taken place sorta like Iran in the 1970's and to try and deal with it) while also predicting some insane tech we are not even close to getting. (Spec ops people with G-11s, warships with rudimentary AI and special hull plating to let them pump air out to reduce friction with water so they could do 0-100kph in 20 seconds, liquid oxygen powered aircraft carrier catapult systems, "USS Hillary Clinton, named after her murdered name sake who is regarded as the fiercest wartime president the US ever had" has become infamous in AH circles) though the writer does have a hate-boner for J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI which kinda goes too far in places.
 
@Skeletonized Cow ,

interesting take as insofar as that Goebbels gets the spot light, at least for like three years, before being sidelined by the quite obscur Rosenberg and his arcane autism. Would definitely like to read a story about the internal mechanisms and power struggle in a post-war Reich that has largely won everything it set out to do in 1933. In particular the particularism of the Gau-system is something not ONE writer in the AH-segment that does a story about an alternate Third Reich gets right. These people either never showed up as an integral part of the political system of the Reich (which they were) or they're rolled into Bormann who serves as a stand-in for the pedantic, "boring" bureaucrat (which he most definitely wasn't - if anything, Lammers deserves that role) or grey suit without any personality or goal. Seriously, without the Gauleiter, Hitler wouldn't have had near-total control over Germany, at all.

Or the writers go into the absurd territory, aka Himmler becomes Führer for whatever reason. I bet a hundred shitcoints Himmler would be shitcanned/sidelined/conned out of power by Heydrich or Pohl the second Hitler croaks, because he was feared and loathed by nearly everybody of importance. "Meine Ehre heißt Treue" my ass - the SS, as every Nazi-organisation was a crabs-in-a-bucket type of deal. Everyone who had the will and resources to do it craved for more power and maneuvered over the bodies of everyone else to get it.

Anyway, my personal thoughts on a post-war Reich: it basically creates a vast modern consumer society built on the backs of slave labour gathered in the conquered eastern territories. The internal politics and policies continue to be an incoherent autistic mess, with Hitler actively pushing for even more factionalism and rivalries, so that he continues to have the last laugh/say. With the war won, Speer and his ministry loses a lot of power, the only reason why he's still of significance post-war is his contribution to victory and the OT, which will build all the stuff the Germans need in the east. The real power lies either with Göring who continues to head the labyrinthic Luftwaffe and other obscure organisations (4 Year Plan), the various Gauleiter (Hanke, Ley and Sauckel and whoever is in charge of the east in particular), Bormann as de-facto party leader and maybe, just maybe the Wehrmacht, if Hitler doesn't decide to merge them with the SS (which me might do, at least in the east). And yes, the Reich has nukes and is the only country with a working nuclear triade, at least for five odd years.

>FoM
I enjoyed it, for the hilarious batshit insane stuff Stalin and the communist Chinese did. Also, Kim-il-Sung-resort for ex-commie leaders, lol, lmao. Fake moon landing and angery as fuck Patton. It's worth a read or three, seriously. Interesting take on Malenkov.
 
Back