Alternate History - Thing happened in real life, so what if thing NOT happened?

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What if Japan kept Taiwan and Sahkhalin post WW2? How would USSR respond? Where does the KMT retreat? Do they keep Tibet with the help of foreigh powers albeit begrudgingly? Do they take over an island in Southeast Asia or do they keep Myanmar against the UN's wishes?
What if Marquis de Sade got his wish and the French implemented sexual communism
Every citizen's needs must be fulfilled by every other citizens' means
Britain and Spain would slowly take their territories under their noses as their prostitutes "distract" them. And a Haitian revolt would happen much earlier as they would use their promiscuity as a reason to fight them back and they tell every voodoo priest Sade is disturbing the spirits. Oh and Britain and Spain would happily arm them. Not sure if Napoleon still happens though.
 
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What if Japan kept Taiwan and Sahkhalin post WW2?
Short of a Japanese victory or stalemate, I don't see any way that the japs could convince the US, Soviets, and British to let them keep it. Sakhalin especially would be a desired territory, due to it's oil/gas (can't rememeber which) and its proximity to the populated section of the Russian Pacific coast.

What if Sun Yat-Sen successfully overthrown Yuan Shikai in the Second Revolution of 1913?
I know very little of Chinese Republican era history, so this might be wrong, but the warlord problem could've been reduced in scale or just dealt with before it could've even become an issue for the Central government. I can't say on what happens with the Chinese Communist Party.
 
Kind of a lame one, but I've been wondering recently what would've happened if Rudy Giuliani won the 2008 nomination.
 
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Gurps released 2 books called Alternate Earths 1&2 that have a bunch of cool alternate historys Aeolus from the second book has got to be my favorite alt history put to print ever
 
Great Britain was the victor of the Napoleonic Wars (1792-1803-1815). Of all the major participants, it came out the least damaged. While its war economy was running red-hot, its debt high and its people restless, it was also on top of the world. Its fleet was the largest the world had ever seen, manned by well-drilled sailors and led by experienced officers. The continent was locked in a balance of powers leaving the British poised to expand their empire across the globe, even after gaining much overseas territory throughout the two decades of Napoleonic warfare.

So too in India. The East India Company, already on the ascendant after the Carnatic wars (1744-1763) - where it established itself as one of the stronger warlords in the disintegrating Mughal empire - would expand even further. The last French possessions in India were overrun in mere months, presidency armies and navies sailing out to expel the ancient enemy from their holdings in the Indian ocean.

Yet there was another major competitor beyond the Cape. The Dutch and the English had an unspoken and unwritten gentleman’s agreement that they’d acknowledge and respect each other’s sphere of influence. But when the Dutch Republic fell and the French revolutionaries were received with open arms by Dutch Patriots, the EIC moved to take control of the VOC possessions as well.

But before the first shot was fired between EIC and VOC units, a rather fascinating event took place. The Patriot movement, eager to rectify the sluggish rent-seeking economy that had plagued the Netherlands for decades by that point, threatened many of the rich, merchant dynasties that owned stock in the VOC.

And thus, under leadership of the Lords XVII there was an exodus (1795). For the second time in Dutch history, rich merchants and other well-off families fled in the face of government persecution.

The closest safe haven was England, and the City of London. While the typical London banker might be rather chauvinistic and unwelcoming, this time it was different. They embraced their fellow rich protestant oligarchs. The City leaned on the British government, and soon the Dutch refugees were naturalized as British citizens.

In return, the Lords Seventeen, the board that led the VOC and had led the Dutch refugees to England, agreed to the Leadenhall Agreements (1798 ).

The Leadenhall Agreements - named after the street on which the East India House was located - merged the Dutch and the British companies, forming the United East India Company. It was a decision not taken lightly, but all who had a stake in either of the companies thought it prudent. It took some time sorting out the practicals of it all, but in the end the companies became a single entity.

The Dutch Cape colony and its varied possessions in the East Indies archipelago were consolidated into a few new presidencies. The Cape presidency ruled from Kaapstad. Ceylon, becoming a part of the Madras presidency. The Near East Indies presidency, mostly the trade posts around Sumatra and Java were ruled from Batavia. The Great East Indies presidency was ruled from Ambon.

Stamford Raffles, who had proven himself a capable young administrator and a rather charismatic leader with knowledge of the local languages was appointed as the re-organizer of the archipelago possessions. But as the Napoleonic Wars raged in Europe, Raffles would go above and beyond the call of duty….

So this is the first part of my EIC TL. The biggest change is that the Patriot movement remains united in their desires to reform the Dutch society, but before a Dutch terror can break loose many of the rich merchant dynasties flee to England, where - funnily enough - the bankers and merchants of London welcome them with open arms.
@DJ Grelle, I read this at work when you posted it and forgot to respond. I really like the idea of the union of the HEIC and VOC, it would be quite the fascinating regime. England would be the undeniable master of all of Asia south of China and the possibility of some sort of vast pan-South Asian identity forming holds a lot of potential. Anyways, I hope you continue, I would be interested to see where you go with this.
 
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What if Japan kept Taiwan and Sahkhalin post WW2? How would USSR respond? Where does the KMT retreat? Do they keep Tibet with the help of foreigh powers albeit begrudgingly? Do they take over an island in Southeast Asia or do they keep Myanmar against the UN's wishes?
The KMT could fall back to Hainan and make a better effort and defending it

Or they do what their armies in Canton did historically and just cross over the border into French Indochina and get disarmed and interned.
 
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The KMT could fall back to Hainan and make a better effort and defending it

Or they do what their armies in Canton did historically and just cross over the border into French Indochina and get disarmed and interned.
The KMT could've also set up a Government-In-Exile like what the Belarusians did after WWI, but it most likely wouldn't go anywhere.
 
This is true, modern historical eurocentrism is off the charts, and you can probably reduce it to whig history/ post enlightment "mission civilisatrice" type of stuff.
Fundamentally - despite all its screeching for diversity and inclusion - the modern western liberal is so smug in its own superiority that they do not even consider non-liberal (non-white) points of view as valid. (The postcolonialist school is an adoption of western whig thought/liberalism by non-whites and thus it takes a special places as it confirms the smug superiority of the AWFL).

Although specialized fields in historiography ignore that stuff. f.e. Late Antiquity as a periodisation for the early caliphate is the general consensus. If you look into the history of catholicism then the term ultramontanism will spring out in the 19th century. Translatio imperii has been studied as used by Charles V of Spain in his role as king of the aztecs and inheritor of montezuma's mantle.

The world has always been far more interconnected than people think, and western europe has been a backwater for most of earths history.


Japan's desire of a colonial empire was more of an attempt to imitate the western powers in a desperate attempt at not getting colonized themselves.
Imitation industries are still rather difficult, you need competent artisans/workmanship to copy stuff.

For example, this is 18th century southern indian ironworks:

View attachment 4699926

This was the european equivalent in that period.

View attachment 4699934

Do you really think the Mysoreans will be building steam engines with purely manual labor?

In "the Anarchy" by William Dalrymple (edit: good book, worth the read), it is noted how an Indian aide to the french commander of the Indies recognizes that the french need less than a few thousand men and twenty pieces of artillery to conquer the subcontinent. Such is the difference in organisation, military tech and discipline.
People underestimate how hard it is to copy stuff, how difficult it is to close the gap. China started their attempt in the late 19th century and they've barely reached par with the west.
The so called great divergence (in technology but also in other stuff like politics) is so incredibly massive that it can be barely comprehended. It also started far earlier than commonly thought. Active use of machinery (although mainly wood and leather stuff) can be traced to the 16th century in W. Europe.

Earlier in my post I've ragged on "whig history" but it is kind of understandable in a sense. The west just skullfucks the rest of the world tech-wise.
I read The Anarchy (didn't like it). Didn't recall that specific part about Mysorean industry but I get your point. You seem to be more familiar with this subject matter than me.

I have not yet heard a single conclusive argument about what the state of China really was, in The Great Divergence it makes it out like they were still on par with Europe in capabilities pretty much right up through the 1700s. Europe post-Black Death basically escaped a Malthusian trap, and Britain and the Low Countries managed to outgrow the new trap where the rest of Europe came to stagnate. But I haven't heard anybody apply this to why there wouldn't have been big boons for the Middle East and Orient which suffered just as much.
 
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So this is the first part of my EIC TL. The biggest change is that the Patriot movement remains united in their desires to reform the Dutch society, but before a Dutch terror can break loose many of the rich merchant dynasties flee to England, where - funnily enough - the bankers and merchants of London welcome them with open arms.

What book series is that? Every time i google it or duckduckgo it I only get books up about modern day russia or some homo errotic boxers.

Active use of machinery (although mainly wood and leather stuff) can be traced to the 16th century in W. Europe.

Even before that, the Romans and for quite a long time afterwards in parts of Europe was water hammers and mills built by the romans where common place, The romans where also really familure with a early metalworking lathe and once you've got that you've got the basis of most modern manufacturing, the Aninchent Greeks had entertainment robots in temples and sophisticated mechanical calculators (the Antikythera mechanisim) it's rather amazing how technically advanced the past was in a lot of respects.
 
I know this will be autistic as fuck, but I've always wondered the world would be like if the Mongols successfully conquered Europe, Japan, India, and Java. I also wonder if they would have tried pushing into Africa if they managed to defeat the Mamluks.
 
I wonder what would happen if Taiwan just straight up declares independence in the 70s when the UN recognizes Mainland China, how would Taiwan now recognized as a country in the 1970s and beyond be like and would it affect things poltically?
 
If Germany wins WW2, is there a Space Race of any sort?
The Americans and Soviets obviously didn't ENITRELY depend on German scientists, but it's clear that the Germans were at the forefront of rocketry and looting their expertise enabled it. If a world emerges where the Germans don't go down, I'm going to assume they remain dominant, but does anyone else even compete? If they don't compete, does Germany develop into space more, or do they (without a competitive pressure) ignore it and just focus on warheads?


I wonder of the potential of Hernando de Soto sucking it up and settling for his shitty Black Belt fiefdoms - Tascaluza, Cofitachequi, and others - and getting an agricultural colony going in the Gulf Coast. La Florida, originally, was intended to be a claim on basically everything we now call Dixie, it just didn't get settled. And why would it? Spanish weren't in the settler business, and even in our time most of it was still Indian country as late as the War of 1812 when the Creek were finally smashed at Horseshoe Bend. The land didn't offer what Spanish wanted. But perhaps the Spanish could have, under different management, realized the potential of controlling important waterways like the Mississippi, wanted more rice from the Lowcountry, wanted gold from Georgian Appalachia if htey had found it (it was the immediate cause of Cherokee removal, once discovered). De Soto kept turning his nose up at the towns he found and eventually bought it going down the Mississippi. The Spanish never bothered with it again.

A world where the Spanish played heavily into La Florida would have wound up creating Spanish Brazil in the South, pardo nation, slavery with Blacks, possibly large missionary influences (Jesuits and such) up in the Upper South. In that world I would have a cute mestizo gf.


Not a scenario but just autistic musing, I think that if the Confederacy had survived it, at least in literary settings, would be an obvious "submarine" power compared to America historically going for carrier aviation. This is both as a nod to Hunley and commerce raiders and because of the real Confederate situation of having a weak-ass industry that would have struggled to defend itself from ships. I assume the Confederates would have done like the Germans and gone far in on convoy raiding with subs, perhaps even becoming rather advanced at it.
 
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have not yet heard a single conclusive argument about what the state of China really was, in The Great Divergence it makes it out like they were still on par with Europe in capabilities pretty much right up through the 1700s.
In raw numbers, they were on par, but if you look into the cutting edge of things then europe has pretty much no peer in the late 17th century. It is also in this period that natural sciences really start to come into their own as independent branches of knowledge, and not as a sub-section of philosophy.
Europe post-Black Death basically escaped a Malthusian trap, and Britain and the Low Countries managed to outgrow the new trap where the rest of Europe came to stagnate.
It were those sciences I referred to in the previous paragraph that lead to the possibility of increasing production on existing/making it possible on marginal fields. Because population density/urbanisation was the highest in the low countries, the agricultural revolution started here. English agronomists copied this and imported it into england (Dutch husbandry) adding in the typical british desire for profit. That's why even today, many English farm estates are quite profitable compared to the rest of the world.
But I haven't heard anybody apply this to why there wouldn't have been big boons for the Middle East and Orient which suffered just as much.
The middle east had not yet developed private property to the extent the west had. It's just a result of western feudalism which - contrary to popular belief - is the actual source of western rights like freedom and true ownership. There was no incentive to improve the land because in five years you'd lose it and get a different grant. The EIC tried to enforce such property rights on India with the permanent settlement and it worked kind of.

China/the Orient already had a very labor intensive agricultural sector (rice) so it'd be difficult to improve on that. Additionally, the nature of terrace-based rice farming and it's very wet nature leads to it being difficult to employ machines/beasts of burdens in the production process.

What book series is that? Every time i google it or duckduckgo it I only get books up about modern day russia or some homo errotic boxers.
The patriot movement was a dutch revolutionary movement in the late 18th C. The timeline is mine and i've only posted it here. Next installment will be Soon(tm).
 
With a POD of the fall of the Western empire, how long can you delay the European discovery of the Americas?

I'm thinking a worse dark age, no Islam, or greater connection between Africa and Europe, leading to no incentive to trade with the orient.

It should be noted Basque fishermen were already off the coast of Nova Scotia in the 1480s, and of course the Norse reached Canada. If you keep Europe stagnant, then I could see discovery of the Americas being delayed at least another fifty to a hundred years.

You really need to tip the scales longer, given the advances in shipbuilding technology. Discovery of the Americas delayed to the 20th century or further(you basically need an apocalypse in Eurasia).
 
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With a POD of the fall of the Western empire, how long can you delay the European discovery of the Americas?

I'm thinking a worse dark age, no Islam, or greater connection between Africa and Europe, leading to no incentive to trade with the orient.

It should be noted Basque fishermen were already off the coast of Nova Scotia in the 1480s, and of course the Norse reached Canada. If you keep Europe stagnant, then I could see discovery of the Americas being delayed at least another fifty to a hundred years.

You really need to tip the scales longer, given the advances in shipbuilding technology. Discovery of the Americas delayed to the 20th century or further(you basically need an apocalypse in Eurasia).
Discovery can happen arbitrarily from ships wandering far enough.

Colonization can be stopped from too much political unification. A hegemonic European state like China as hegemon of Asia, or Japan as an isolated totalitarian society, can stop it from expanding because the state is so large it directs all energy inwards and fears change.

I have a scenario where Western Roman survival allows the Americas to develop fairly autonomously save for trading.
 
I'm thinking a worse dark age,
Given the so-called "dark age" was primarily the post-collapse migration period, the survival of the western Empire would surely lead to the opposite?
 
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