Alternate History - Thing happened in real life, so what if thing NOT happened?

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
One of the few good Reddit moments I remember was a AH where the Able Archer exercise in 1983 kicks off a nuclear war. Difference with a lot of scenarios like this is that the Northern Hemisphere gets obliterated, but the South is unaffected except for a site or two in Australia. Guy who created it called it after a Redgum song, It'll be Alright in the Long Run.

Basically, the world is now split into a pact of Latin American Condor-era juntas, 1980's Australia, and Apartheid South Africa. I thought it was interesting because it's one of the few Alt-Histories that doesn't nuke the world and say "It's all fucked", and South Africa isn't just your average retard interpretation of "Muh evil doo-doo head Apartheid raycissts." The world is basically frozen in the 1980's, so there's plenty of lore to build on. Also for once it's not an American-centric Post-Apocalypse scenario.

Archive of the Reddit thread I found it in. I think it's a really neat idea.
View attachment 4939352
The old 1950s sci-fi writer H. Beam Piper wrote a series of novels and short stories set in a far future where a 20th century WW3 between NATO and Warsaw Pact obliterates the Northern Hemisphere, so the human civilization that ends up establishing interstellar colonies and conquering the stars is descended from Portuguese and Spanish South America, Afrikaner South-Africa, and Australia, with a sprinkling of Northern Hemisphere refugees who relocated to the Southern Hemisphere shortly before and after WW3, bringing with them the best of their technology and knowledge.

However, since the novels were the products of a 1950s American writer, the characters still talk like 1950s Americans, complete with idioms and slang, even though in the stories they are supposed to be speaking a lingua franca based on a melding of Portuguese, Spanish, Afrikaans, and English. The characters smoke and drink like 1950s American, even building 1950s American customs like cocktail hour into their schedules, but the clever in-universe explanation is that 1950s America is considered by the far-future descendants of WW3 survivors as the heyday of a long dead Western civilization, the last era of peace and prosperity before the new dark age, to be emulated like the Founding Fathers emulated Classical Rome and Greece.

But Piper does make a good effort to give the setting a strong Southern Hemisphere feel. All the big industrial companies are Argentine or South African. The best universities on Earth are in South America. Pretty much all of the characters explicitly have a Southern Hemisphere background either Southern native or Northern refugees who have been in the South for generations and have a familiarity with Southern Hemisphere history and culture. The Northern Hemisphere is slowly being restored and resettled but lags behind the South.

NYC had a secession proposal (from the mayor, it didn't gain traction) during the Civil War due to its status as a major cotton entrepot and center of the Democratic Party. I don't think anyone has really explored this but I am interested in Confederate victory settings (which so often have Deseret or stupid shit like California existing) with NYC as a bizarre extra state of the Confederacy or just as a close ally.
In the steampunk novel "The Difference Engine", the Perfidious Angloids have kept America disunited by propping up the CSA in the still ongoing Civil War, and also running guns to other breakaway American states like an independent Texas. One of the breakaway states is a Manhattan Commune, which basically sounds like a longer-lasting version of the Paris Commune. Whereas the Paris Commune was formed in reaction to the Imperial French defeat in the Franco-Prussian War, the Manhattan Commune is formed in reaction to the US federal government's inability to defeat the CSA.
 
The old 1950s sci-fi writer H. Beam Piper wrote a series of novels and short stories set in a far future where a 20th century WW3 between NATO and Warsaw Pact obliterates the Northern Hemisphere, so the human civilization that ends up establishing interstellar colonies and conquering the stars is descended from Portuguese and Spanish South America, Afrikaner South-Africa, and Australia, with a sprinkling of Northern Hemisphere refugees who relocated to the Southern Hemisphere shortly before and after WW3, bringing with them the best of their technology and knowledge.
I don't know if this is it, but I remember one alt-history similar to this idea where Brazil becomes an empire again, and half of humanity either speaks English thanks to Australia or Portuguese because of Brazil. I remember reading it or something about it ten or so years ago and can't find anything about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Roadkill
I don't know if this is it, but I remember one alt-history similar to this idea where Brazil becomes an empire again, and half of humanity either speaks English thanks to Australia or Portuguese because of Brazil. I remember reading it or something about it ten or so years ago and can't find anything about it.
Probably something different.

The H. Beam Piper novels were pure sci-fi, future history when they were written (though now you could consider them honorary AH due to how much their future timeline has diverged from current history). In any case, the novels were mainly sci-fi, with the historical elements being very much just fluff for the background.
 
Its because I find the aftermath of maybe, like, an action movie with aliens where the good guy saves the day and they are defeated an interesting concept. Thats where the credits roll so I wonder how that would go. Would humanity eventually forgive and assimilate them among us, would we only have revenge in our mind or maybe somewhere in the middle?
Out of the Dark posits that we kill the bastards and then go back to their planets to genocide them even harder.
 
As for them assimilating that is a bit more difficult; can they even speak human languages? How different are their cultural practices to our own? Do they even understand the concept of culture? How attached are they to the leadership caste that may have to be forcibly replaced by the humans?
That is entirely dependent on if humans are able to establish a form of mutually understandable communication with them. If they can't do that, assimilation will be impossible. From then, the only real solution is expulsion or genocide.
 
Has anyone ever done timelines abt a sapient species besides humans existing on Earth?

like, a surviving enclave of those Indonesian hobbits being found or Jacques Cousteau accidentally making first contact with tool using octopi for example.
 
Could the Vinland settlers have survived long enough to form a permanent settlement in North America?
Perhaps, but that would only be if the settlers get enough reinforcements from home. If they couldn't get that, they would likely die out unless they intermingled with the local indians.
 
Perhaps, but that would only be if the settlers get enough reinforcements from home. If they couldn't get that, they would likely die out unless they intermingled with the local indians.
If Vinland survives for a long enough time, could the Americas become common knowledge in Europe before Columbus or would Vinland be seen as another island like Iceland and Greenland?
 
Not sure if this is the place to ask but might as well try here before making a dedicated thread on Art & Literature, but does anyone know where to find the stuff written by Fyodor Berezin?

Dude dabbles in Alternate History alongside with a lot of Tom Clancy style military fiction, and he sounds super based with great ideas and takes. He is a Russian and that means he has been blacklisted and sanctioned off western book markets and events, not even because of the 2022 UA-RU war but because the madman is part of the breakaway Donetsk Republic thing since 2014. He even was their Miniter of Defense for a while and led a actual operation to take a piece of Ukraine to Donetsk.

I am particularly interested in his Red Stars series. It's a duo of books about a sorta Zipang/Final Countdown type of meme where a Russian fleet gets teleported and fights and American fleet. Except instead of time travel it is alternate reality travel, the RU fleet that attacks the US fleet comes from a timeline where Stalin attacked Hitler first because Barbarossa got delayed a week and as such the tech in that navy is totally different. They still have battleships as the main big hitter, ekranoplanes as a big part of it and such.

The only piece of writing I have been able to find of his online is a small short done for a MIT SciFi club/organization thing back in 2016. It's about a terror attack in the 2030's involving the Panama Canal and is just a little over 6k words. It really left me wanting more of the guy. He has a very peculiar writing style that translates to english well and obviously looks at things from a different angle than most writers with his USSR/Russian background.

 
  • Informative
Reactions: Jemn Oopi
If Vinland survives for a long enough time, could the Americas become common knowledge in Europe before Columbus or would Vinland be seen as another island like Iceland and Greenland?
Vinland would be seen by Europeans a lot like Finland. Just spelled with a V instead of an F.
 
Speak English
It's a BattleTech joke: a batchall is a sort of formal mélee that The Clans, tribal-esque reminants of the old Federation thing in BattleTech's military, they invaded "civilized" space and were kicking ass but at at Tukayyid, a planet, they were basically invited to an ambush and got stomped, and thus had to stop their invasion for 15 years.
Edit: And they lost to the fucking phone company.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Radola Gajda
Not sure if this is the place to ask but might as well try here before making a dedicated thread on Art & Literature, but does anyone know where to find the stuff written by Fyodor Berezin?

Dude dabbles in Alternate History alongside with a lot of Tom Clancy style military fiction, and he sounds super based with great ideas and takes. He is a Russian and that means he has been blacklisted and sanctioned off western book markets and events, not even because of the 2022 UA-RU war but because the madman is part of the breakaway Donetsk Republic thing since 2014. He even was their Miniter of Defense for a while and led a actual operation to take a piece of Ukraine to Donetsk.

I am particularly interested in his Red Stars series. It's a duo of books about a sorta Zipang/Final Countdown type of meme where a Russian fleet gets teleported and fights and American fleet. Except instead of time travel it is alternate reality travel, the RU fleet that attacks the US fleet comes from a timeline where Stalin attacked Hitler first because Barbarossa got delayed a week and as such the tech in that navy is totally different. They still have battleships as the main big hitter, ekranoplanes as a big part of it and such.

The only piece of writing I have been able to find of his online is a small short done for a MIT SciFi club/organization thing back in 2016. It's about a terror attack in the 2030's involving the Panama Canal and is just a little over 6k words. It really left me wanting more of the guy. He has a very peculiar writing style that translates to english well and obviously looks at things from a different angle than most writers with his USSR/Russian background.

What digging I've done suggests that they still have not been translated to English, and thanks to him being a Dontesk Russian, they probably won't ever be. Probably their original Russian is floating around Russian websites, but I don't speak Russian, so I'm not able to help on that front.
 
Something I like to ponder that never happened is Appalachian insurgency. The United States had an easy time suppressing the Whiskey Rebellion because it was a small thing that was willing to disperse, and in the Civil War most of Appalachia was Unionists or at least not particularly motivated Confederates.

If you've ever been to Appalachia you'll know that the terrain is brutally rugged. The mountains are not tall, but they're very harsh in how they swoop up. Until the Cumberland Gap was found you could get an individual through it, sure, but not wagons, not the stuff you need to send in large supplied armies or to settle. That's why the colonies effective borders stopped before it, and why the country swiftly filled in Kentucky and Tennessee as soon as the gap was found. It's easy to miss when you drive through it now, because there are roads, but you'll see tons of these sheer cliffs alongside the roads. Why? They blasted right through it, straight up cut through the hills. In the absence of those, it's much rougher, and it's extremely densely forested. People from more open forest like Europe or the Western US can't appreciate how thick Appalachian (or other low population density areas) forests are, can't hardly walk through it. Sabotage the roads and the area is just completely fucked for a military to try and seize.

I've thought before that there are a number of things which could have very much stymied a Union war effort. California and/or Oregon having become Confederate (not implausible, it had a sizable Southern population in the south of the state), now that I think about it I actually really like the idea of a Pacific Theater pitting one against the other. The other is Confederate Appalachia, because that, I think, would have been absolutely devastating for the Union. Pretty much impossible to deal with.

In more contemporary settings (requiring dysfunction to begin much earlier, like a US that fell into banana republic, or no US at all but some other nation), the forested mountain terrain makes it a natural Vietnam, imagine air cavalry swooping around the hills having gunfights with militia.
 
In more contemporary settings (requiring dysfunction to begin much earlier, like a US that fell into banana republic, or no US at all but some other nation), the forested mountain terrain makes it a natural Vietnam, imagine air cavalry swooping around the hills having gunfights with militia.

As it happens, I've been writing, off and on, for a couple of years about a hypothetical insurgency in western Montana in the early 1990s and what happens afterward.
 
Back