Alternate History - Thing happened in real life, so what if thing NOT happened?

[Lazy Printer]

What if... no religion has ever been made?

No egyptian gods, or greek gods, christianity judaism, or atheism

Thats impossible.

 

[DJ Grelle]

Re: Nazi civil war.
Always annoys me to no end, since "night of the long knives" and "post-stauffenberg-plot purge" are far more likely. A civil war between the SS and the wehrmacht would also be pretty unrealisitic because without the wartime expansion of the waffen SS the wehrmacht would vastly outnumber the SS.

Re: Nazi autarky
The idea that the Nazi were autistically anti trade is retarded; they had plenty of trade (top of my head example: in the late 1930ies, germany is the largest trading partner of yugoslavia, accounting for about 40% of their trade). The autarkic elements were mainly inspired by the experiences of Hitler and the nazis of the late WW1/post WW1 era of famine and general shortages, and the problems that german industry had in late ww1 with getting enough iron ore etc etc.
The 30ies were a rough period for international trade in general, with the great depression leading to plenty of protectionism.

 

[Lazy Printer]

What if an alien race invaded and we won? Would we accept the alien innocent civilians among us or we would just genocide the bastards?

What types of aliens they are? Why they invaded? What methods of warfare they used? That would influenc things a lot. There more of them coming? One thing that i sure that this scenario would devolve in to a cut throat silent "war" between the major nations for the alien tech with tons of corporations and other group of interests sticking their noses in. People would ended using their space tech for selfish reasons regardless, this is for sure.

And i also have a fun fantastical scenario. What if elves and some of other fantasy races existed? No magics, just elves,goblins, dwarfs and so on... I was thinking about something akin to warhammer elves/eldar quite beuatiful but also inhuman, moviments too precise and delicated to a human be able to do without years of training and extreme calculation. Your typicals types would exist high elves,wood elves,dark elves their numbers would be lower than humans but not low to the point where they are considered unicorns and i have no fucking clue about where they would live, since they are all light skinned they would probably live somewhere in northern eurasia. Goblins could live pretty much anywhere i think, they would be probably considered plague. How would that affect society? Religion, racial views and so on...

 

[Curzon Dax-sama]

I suspect that would heavily rely on the state of the Reich when Hitler died. If the transition of power was relatively peaceful, and everyone's favorite chubster Goering took charge without much fuss, Goering might be able to tard-wrangle the Reich into not eating itself. If the Reich is imploding by the time Hitler dies, then it's absolutely civil war time.

Göring being used by the OKW/OKH as a puppet-Führer is the most likely outcome. No other faction within the Reichs has comparable power, the Wehrmacht has virtually all of the guns, the SS is still largely a police force, the party fine tuned to obey Hitler personally and so on. So, it would be a thinly veiled weirdly autistic federative military dictatorship emerging from Hitler's demise.

 

[Zaryiu2]

I was wondering how much would change if William the Aetheling, heir of Henri I of England, didn't die as he did in our timeline and thus no Plantagenet dynasty

 

[Ishtar]

No French Revolution.

Basically the French Revolution is headed off by better economic management in the 1780s.

Means no Haitian Revolution, no Quasi war, no French revolutionary wars, no Napoleon. France remains a monarchy(though reforms in the direction of limiting royal authority are made).

Basically…the European alliance system remains as it was. With Britain being allied with Austria and France being allied with Spain and Prussia(I think). IIRC around this time you had Russian plans to set up a puppet Byzantine Greece, the Austrians and the Ottomans coming to an accord and some conflicts in Switzerland.

Maybe you might see another dynastic cabinet war but without the French Revolution, Louis XVI may have a quiet rest of the 18th century.

 

[LateNightMuffin]

A “WWII” alt history idea I never see explored is one where Nazis rise to power in Germany yet the war either doesn’t happen or the Nazis don’t start it.

Hitler stops after demanding Memel. And Poland and Germany come to an agreement over Danzig (somehow). What would a world with a “Peaceful” Nazi Germany look like ?

I don't have any original ideas on this, but in the Bernie Gunther novels by Philip Kerr (historical fiction where Bernie is a detective in Nazi Germany who hates Nazism but is a good enough detective he's often useful to the Nazis, so ends up peripherally associated with all sorts of major historical action: he's in town when Heydrich is assassinated; he investigates the Katyn Massacre at the request of Himmler, and in so doing meets some of the major Stauffenberg plotters, etc: highly recommended) one of the characters says to another that if Hitler would have died in 1938 or so, he would have gone down in history as one of Germany's greatest leaders. I don't agree with that, and don't know if Kerr agreed with that (Kerr is dead now), but it's an interesting perspective.

 

[JJLiautaud]

No French Revolution.

Basically the French Revolution is headed off by better economic management in the 1780s.

Means no Haitian Revolution, no Quasi war, no French revolutionary wars, no Napoleon. France remains a monarchy(though reforms in the direction of limiting royal authority are made).

Basically…the European alliance system remains as it was. With Britain being allied with Austria and France being allied with Spain and Prussia(I think). IIRC around this time you had Russian plans to set up a puppet Byzantine Greece, the Austrians and the Ottomans coming to an accord and some conflicts in Switzerland.

Maybe you might see another dynastic cabinet war but without the French Revolution, Louis XVI may have a quiet rest of the 18th century.

One interesting way to cause this is to have the French be even better at Industrial Espionage and thus give their economy the kick in the ass they needed in order to compete with England.

 

[Ishtar]

I don’t think then 18th century system will endure indefinitely. A lot of the military reforms for example were already in existence(if only in theory) and industrialization would lead to mass destabilization.

But if you head off the French Revolution, you head off so many things. At least for a long time.

Modern conservatism in the Burkean tradition never emerges, as a coherent response to the revolution, socialism-Babeuf and the Jacobins, and their heirs Hegel and Marx may never emerge or if they do it will be under vastly different circumstances. De Maistre and “reactionary” politics never develops coherently either.

The Enlightenment and anti monarchical sentiments remain parlor discussions by intellectuals, at least for another generation.

I don’t think there would be any reason for another big war in Europe in the 1790s, but I could be wrong. Conflict between the Russians and Ottomans may escalate again.

French interest in Egypt existed before the revolution(I believe once major French diplomat had actually explored the idea of a French conquest in the 1760s) but it probably doesn’t come to anything. Military reforms continue in the Ottoman Empire. Spain’s weakness is not revealed, and there is no reason why Spanish America should break away.

This isn’t to say something big won’t happen-a revolution might occur in Austria or even Britain. Or that many of the intellectual and political consequences of the French revolution would not still happen-if delayed and in another form.

I don’t think the 18th century order could survive mass industrialization and the discontent this would produce. The rise of the bourgeoisie as a class without the revolution may be less violent. Though in Europe-it may lead to violence as the aristocracy does not give way to bankers, merchants, and so on.

It’s honestly really a question of how much of history do you think is pre determined by larger impersonal forces(economic development, technology, etc…) and how much is based on contingency.

But like the rise of Islam, the French Revolution is one of those discontinuous junctures in history-from which everything before seems to fade into the background, and that which comes after is an open game.

Even delaying it a generation-could have massive ramifications for the outcome.

I’m curious though just on the military side of things if there would be last war of the 18th century, in the vain of the wars of secession of Spain and Austria.

That is a limited war fought over dynastic claims.

 

[Fried-Rice12]

By the way everyone, there is a new Alternate History site (not the shitty libtard one called AH.com).
It is pretty small for now.

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

By the way everyone, there is a new Alternate History site (not the shitty libtard one called AH.com).
It is pretty small for now.

I give it a month or two for some retards to cause drama and make the site unusable, given the past attempts at A-H sites.

 

[Fried-Rice12]

I give it a month or two for some retards to cause drama and make the site unusable, given the past attempts at A-H sites

This site was specifically created by people who wanted a place without libtards and their drama.
I will take you up on your bet and return to this post in 2 months after taking a look at the site.
Also, why the pessimism?

 

[RA-5C Vigilante]

This site was specifically created by people who wanted a place without libtards and their drama.
I will take you up on your bet and return to this post in 2 months after taking a look at the site.
Also, why the pessimism?

I have dug through the HoI4 community, read Turtledoves worst hits, and have had to watch Alternate History devolve from "Confederate Victory" to "TRANS RIGHTS BUT IN 1918."
I have no optimism for discussions online, and even less with A-H.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

One interesting way to cause this is to have the French be even better at Industrial Espionage and thus give their economy the kick in the ass they needed in order to compete with England.

I don't know a thing about French industrial espionage in that era, but I know New England practically built itself off of that.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Lazy idea for the day: What if Napoleon had won in his Egyptian campaigns, invaded India, and then the French mainland fell and Napoleon ended up creating an "adventurer" state in India?

 

[Wot Zit Too Yah0996]

What if James Garfield didn't slowly die, due to his doctors fucking up his arguably recoverable gunshot wound?

@General Emílio Médici The entirety of Canada might resemble some Alaska-Vermont-Michigan-Illnois-Minnesota type place, but with the Scottish, French-Canadian, and Scandinavian... stuff, for lack of better terminology, watered down, perhaps.

 

[Wot Zit Too Yah0996]

Lazy idea for the day: What if Napoleon had won in his Egyptian campaigns, invaded India, and then the French mainland fell and Napoleon ended up creating an "adventurer" state in India?

I'll raise you two related by nationality slash location ones:

1.) What if Napoleon beat the Russians?

2.) What if Operation Barbarossa, somehow, didn't go tits up?



I just read on Wikipedia that during the French Invasion of Russia, Napoleon was backed by additional forces from Denmark, Norway, Austria, and Prussia (technically also Russians themselves, but also German, Polish, Ukrainian etc. There also used to be a Prussian language. At least two forms of it) How the Bleeding Hell did they lose? I could read more of the entry, but, er... I can't be arsed.

 

[JJLiautaud]

I just read on Wikipedia that during the French Invasion of Russia, Napoleon was backed by additional forces from Denmark, Norway, Austria, and Prussia (technically also Russians themselves, but also German, Polish, Ukrainian etc. There also used to be a Prussian language. At least two forms of it) How the Bleeding Hell did they lose? I could read more of the entry, but, er... I can't be arsed.

Prussian is more related to the Baltic languages Lithuanian and Latvian than to any of the Slavic languages like Russian.

 

[Wot Zit Too Yah0996]

Prussian is more related to the Baltic languages Lithuanian and Latvian than to any of the Slavic languages like Russian.

Correct. I skim-read that once on Wikipedia, actually. I can't remember why the language "died" off.

 

[JJLiautaud]

Correct. I skim-read that once on Wikipedia, actually. I can't remember why the language "died" off.

Languages do that all the time, but here we can blame the Germans the Teutonic Knights fought a bunch of wars and established themselves as the upper class and then made it more advantageous to speak a German than speak Prussian then the speakers of Prussian slowly switched to speaking German. A tale genuinely as old as time.