ANTIFA / Antifascist Action / Antifaschistische Aktion - The anti-fascist gang with fascist tendencies

[ProgKing of the North]

Because black block and gang hiding tactics? It's hard to pick out one lanky white dude in a mask next to a large group of similar. It's either remove the mask or accept law enforcement being more useless then they already are on these matters, in my opinion.

Keeping our rights are more important than making sure that a handful of dudes get arrested imo

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

Keeping our rights are more important than making sure that a handful of dudes get arrested imo

I'm still pretty sure that the right to privacy is negated by involvement in criminal activity.

 

[TowinKarz]

I'm not willing to abrogate First Amendment freedoms just because some people abuse them. Why not just arrest them if they break an actual law? There are cops already there and once someone actually commits a crime there is absolutely no reason not to unmask them and their activities and identities become a matter of public record.

Agree.

To use the previous example, you can't jail someone for being Crip or a Blood, but you certainly can jail them for narcotics trafficking and drive-by shootings, and while their gang affiliation isn't per se illegal, it goes a long way to helping a prosecutor sell their case against Jamal being a violent criminal if they can show he was a part of said gang, because you don't become a member of either for free airline miles or just liking the color red......

But let's not forget, the hotbed of ANTIFA activity is uniquely an area where the civic government, for whatever bizarre reason, supports them.

Their attempts to "branch out" to DC, Philly and other parts of the East Coast metroplex have been met with fierce law enforcement resistance and prosecution for assaults and rioting, and that put and end to it quick. The Capitol Police will pull a WWF-level finishing move on your ass if you cross the "no protest line", and they only had to do it once to make the point. That BLM/ANTIFA/WHATEVER tent city in Philly got dismantled by the bike cops, they didn't even have to use SWAT, because ANTIFA are pussies when they don't have a friend in the Mayor's Office.

We don't need different laws, we need law enforcement to do it's job, and 99% of the nation does, it's just that douche bag Wheeler who doesn't because I guess he likes LARPING as some kind of revolutionary leader.

 

[SmallTalk201]

Agree.

To use the previous example, you can't jail someone for being Crip or a Blood, but you certainly can jail them for narcotics trafficking and drive-by shootings, and while their gang affiliation isn't per se illegal, it goes a long way to helping a prosecutor sell their case against Jamal being a violent criminal if they can show he was a part of said gang, because you don't become a member of either for free airline miles or just liking the color red......

But let's not forget, the hotbed of ANTIFA activity is uniquely an area where the civic government, for whatever bizarre reason, supports them.

Their attempts to "branch out" to DC, Philly and other parts of the East Coast metroplex have been met with fierce law enforcement resistance and prosecution for assaults and rioting, and that put and end to it quick. The Capitol Police will pull a WWF-level finishing move on your ass if you cross the "no protest line", and they only had to do it once to make the point. That BLM/ANTIFA/WHATEVER tent city in Philly got dismantled by the bike cops, they didn't even have to use SWAT, because ANTIFA are pussies when they don't have a friend in the Mayor's Office.

We don't need different laws, we need law enforcement to do it's job, and 99% of the nation does, it's just that douche bag Wheeler who doesn't because I guess he likes LARPING as some kind of revolutionary leader.

what about Rico laws or laws used to bring down the kkk??

 

[RandallB]

if you pass fascist laws to stop anti-fascists then arent you proving them right tho?

i think thye must be nice people because otherwise why would they go protect minorities from nazis and fascists unless they want to protect people?

 

[Sissy Galvez]

Agree.

To use the previous example, you can't jail someone for being Crip or a Blood, but you certainly can jail them for narcotics trafficking and drive-by shootings, and while their gang affiliation isn't per se illegal, it goes a long way to helping a prosecutor sell their case against Jamal being a violent criminal if they can show he was a part of said gang, because you don't become a member of either for free airline miles or just liking the color red......

But let's not forget, the hotbed of ANTIFA activity is uniquely an area where the civic government, for whatever bizarre reason, supports them.

Their attempts to "branch out" to DC, Philly and other parts of the East Coast metroplex have been met with fierce law enforcement resistance and prosecution for assaults and rioting, and that put and end to it quick. The Capitol Police will pull a WWF-level finishing move on your ass if you cross the "no protest line", and they only had to do it once to make the point. That BLM/ANTIFA/WHATEVER tent city in Philly got dismantled by the bike cops, they didn't even have to use SWAT, because ANTIFA are pussies when they don't have a friend in the Mayor's Office.

We don't need different laws, we need law enforcement to do it's job, and 99% of the nation does, it's just that douche bag Wheeler who doesn't because I guess he likes LARPING as some kind of revolutionary leader.

Law enforcement can’t do their jobs when they’re handcuffed by the mayor and a sympathetic city council made up of degenerates. Intelligent people don’t run for councils.

 

[CharlesBarkley]

Keeping our rights are more important than making sure that a handful of dudes get arrested imo

Yeah, but I get way more enjoyment watching hipsters get buttfucked in county jails. Talk about a tough morality choice.

 

[Dracula's Spirit Animal]

if you pass fascist laws to stop anti-fascists then arent you proving them right tho?

i think thye must be nice people because otherwise why would they go protect minorities from nazis and fascists unless they want to protect people?

If you are going to troll, son, you should learn to walk before you attempt to run. That was some weak shit.

 

[TowinKarz]

what about Rico laws or laws used to bring down the kkk??

You could bring down a kid's lemonade stand with RICO.... I'm guessing there's a reason they don't go that route. It kinda remains the nuclear option because nobody really seems to like it's over-arching nature being rife for abuse, so I think it's understood by prosecutors that the more they use it, the closer they inch to some court inevitably neutering it. Whereas if you only trot it out once or twice a year against unsympathetic scumbags, there's a general acceptance for it. But that's just my unfounded speculation.


The KKK's final destruction was not through criminal law, but civil law, they were essentially sued into bankruptcy in the 90's by making the owners of all thier real property liable for "damages" caused by a handful of their more trigger-happy members, so it became economically unattractive to be a Klan leader, let alone a member, not that it was ever illegal. The Klan was robbed of any material support, nobody was willing to invest in building a compound or meeting hall or publication arm if all that money and all those assets could be wiped out the first time one of their members got into trouble. It's why they only really exist online these days, well, that and the fact that most people realize how stupid the whole organization is.... that somehow wearing funny robes and burning shit is going to accomplish anything.....

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

Juggalos do that too. So do Wal-Mart Christmas sales, flash mobs, literally any protest of anything, etc. If you think that means you can outlaw any of those things, you're delusional.

I'm not arguing you outlaw them, as such. We've historically basically allowed any group to operate, we we just keep an eye on them.

I'm just arguing that they are an organization. They display all the hallmarks of being one - they have leaders, cell structures, uniforms, banners and iconography, organization and a communications network, training and planning sessions, etc. And these structures, communications channels, hierarchies, plans, iconographies, etc are consistent, and exist even when the group is not actively doing something, they are not ad hoc. That they deny they are an organization is to me as meaningful as their claims that they are antifascist - it's a useful lie.

And since you keep bringing up the Juggalo thing. I'll admit, I know little about the structure within the group, although I don't think it's nearly as organized as you seem to imply, but that having been said, to my mind, there's one key difference that matters more. There is a criminal element within the group, but it's not the whole group, nor is it what the group is about. Not so with antifa - Even if you say any individual member of antifa has never committed a crime, and probably the majority haven't, directly... Their very nature, the obfuscation of their group identity, the concealing dress, etc? Is all designed explicitly to allow those who do commit crimes to get away with it. So the most innocent antifa ever is still guilty of knowingly and deliberately enabling criminal behavior. Meanwhile your average "innocent" Juggalo is at worst guilty of boorish behavior, questionable taste in music, and fantastic taste in soda. And probably doing all manner of drugs, I would guess, but that's sort of a different issue.

 

[SmallTalk201]

You could bring down a kid's lemonade stand with RICO.... I'm guessing there's a reason they don't go that route. It kinda remains the nuclear option because nobody really seems to like it's over-arching nature being rife for abuse, so I think it's understood by prosecutors that the more they use it, the closer they inch to some court inevitably neutering it. Whereas if you only trot it out once or twice a year against unsympathetic scumbags, there's a general acceptance for it. But that's just my unfounded speculation.


The KKK's final destruction was not through criminal law, but civil law, they were essentially sued into bankruptcy in the 90's by making the owners of all thier real property liable for "damages" caused by a handful of their more trigger-happy members, so it became economically unattractive to be a Klan leader, let alone a member, not that it was ever illegal. The Klan was robbed of any material support, nobody was willing to invest in building a compound or meeting hall or publication arm if all that money and all those assets could be wiped out the first time one of their members got into trouble. It's why they only really exist online these days, well, that and the fact that most people realize how stupid the whole organization is.... that somehow wearing funny robes and burning shit is going to accomplish anything.....

couldn't it be applied to their political friends like the mayor?

 

[AnOminous]

I would settle for firing rubber bullets at any mob of masked rioters to improve law enforcement's efforts.

Or rubber bullets at any group of non-masked rioters.

There is a criminal element within the group, but it's not the whole group, nor is it what the group is about.

There actually is a specific criminal group that is as organized as a bunch of criminals who would call themselves juggalos can be.

There are also random juggalos or groups of juggalos who commit crimes that are usually just typical disorderly degenerate shit, but are occasionally acts of psychotic violence, or fucked up shit like that chick who got her finger cut off for. . .whatever the fuck reason.

A lot of antifa is just idiots like Phil/ADF who aren't organized anything, they're just morons who saw some edgy symbols online and started dressing up like black bloc and tipping over garbage cans.

The genuinely dangerous ones are people like Eric Clanton who combine willingness to commit deadly violence with comparatively sophisticated networking through academic channels in order to radicalize others to commit similar crimes, and that kind of person should be the focus of federal law enforcement.

That means the people connected to these specific factions are what should be focused on and that should be a PR push as well.

It's probably going to take their equivalent of James Fields, i.e. some crazy antifa going Charlottesville, to drive away the less radical people who don't want to be affiliated with shit like that.

 

[SmallTalk201]

It's possible to automate these antifa professors jobs with a.I
Just saying

 

[Memento Malum]

You could bring down a kid's lemonade stand with RICO.... I'm guessing there's a reason they don't go that route. It kinda remains the nuclear option becaue nobody really seems to like it's over-arching nature being rife for abuse, so I think it's understood by prosecutors that the more they use it, the closer they inch to some court inevitably neutering it. Whereas if you only trot it out once or twice a year against unsympathetic scumbags, there's a general acceptance for it. But that's just my unfounded speculation.

I agree with the main thrust of your arguments here, but I do want to mention this: It's (probably) not RICO. (Popehat, but pre-TDS so not utterly deranged.)

Rereading that article however, Antifa might be edging very close to RICO territory, at least to my non-legal trained eyes, but I think a major sticking point would be what AnOminous is talking about: the hazy and indistinct nature of Antifa as an organization. Conduct, pattern, predicate acts, and injury we have in spades, but the enterprise would be tricky to stick in a court. Again I am not a lawyer, and I am making these statements in my capacity as an untrained civilian.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I agree with the main thrust of your arguments here, but I do want to mention this: It's (probably) not RICO. (Popehat, but pre-TDS so not utterly deranged.)

Rereading that article however, Antifa might be edging very close to RICO territory, at least to my non-legal trained eyes, but I think a major sticking point would be what AnOminous is talking about: the hazy and indistinct nature of Antifa as an organization. Conduct, pattern, predicate acts, and injury we have in spades, but the enterprise would be tricky to stick in a court. Again I am not a lawyer, and I am making these statements in my capacity as an untrained civilian.

Antifa as a whole? Yeah, I'm with @AnOminous on the idea that it's gonna take some Antifa dude actually killing someone before they fall apart and lose any favor with the media or the more "Establishment" wings of the Left. And I'm talking someone getting killed at an Antifa riot by someone who is obviously Antifa.

Of course, it looks like the Portland Antifa thugs are working on achieving just that...

While Antifa as a whole would be difficult to crack down on, Rose City Antifa actually could be targeted by anti-gang laws or something like RICO.

Rose City Antifa is one of the largest, most active, and most influential Antifa groups in the United States. They actually fit the definition of a criminal conspiracy, especially if you factor in their alleged ties to the Portland city government and obvious corruption on the part of the mayor.

If Rose City Antifa got hit with a RICO case or even just a normal FBI takedown, it could possibly send a strong message to the other Antifa groups in the country and scare a lot of your "casual" Antifa members, low-level grunts, and online sympathizers into abandoning the Antifa movement out of fear of going to a federal prison

As it is, Antifa is most active in deep blue states where the local governments are less likely to prosecute them or prosecute them as harshly, and they're only really doing the hardcore criminal conspiracy shit in Portland because the city government is in bed with them.

Rose City Antifa is to Portland in the 2010's what the Chicago Outfit was to Las Vegas in the 1970's

 

[AnOminous]

Rose City Antifa is one of the largest, most active, and most influential Antifa groups in the United States. They actually fit the definition of a criminal conspiracy, especially if you factor in their alleged ties to the Portland city government and obvious corruption on the part of the mayor.

This specific group could actually be targeted directly as a criminal/terrorist organization or under federal laws relating to crimes against civil rights, federal laws which were passed specifically against the Klan. RICO usually isn't worth the expense even when it applies, though.

 

[RandallB]

If you are going to troll, son, you should learn to walk before you attempt to run. That was some weak shit.

So are you saying you are pro fascism?

 

[Frosted Snowflakes]

 

[RandallB]

I know its weird to say but why the are these antifas so bad at the violence they attempt? By now you would think they would have managed to accidentally kill someone. The only reason they're not hated by everyone is they are really bad at what they do.

 

[SmallTalk201]

I know its weird to say but why the are these antifas so bad at the violence they attempt? By now you would think they would have managed to accidentally kill someone. The only reason they're not hated by everyone is they are really bad at what they do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm

Th he reason they are leftists is because they suck at everything. The only way competent people will join them is if there was real fascism on the rise or a real hum dinger crisis such as the great depression

THe other problem is leftist ideals are designed to make people cuckoo. Can't be good at squat if ya crazy.

The final is the lack of devotion to their cause. They are cowards. They don't do anything risky or sacrifice to get things done. It's a fashion statement. So they are not doing well cause their hearts ain't truly in it.


Antifa goons isn't what concerning. What concerning is the social political economic structures, interests and mechanisms supporting them. that's the real threat