Arguments or Evidence to Convince Normies/Leftists That Troons Are Harmful to Society

[Hybrid Hubris]

I want to "radicalize" more normal people to how troons are a menace upon the Earth. Post good, convincing arguments against transgenderism, or bring up glaring evidence that can be used to convince normies about the harms of transgenderism.

The problem is that normies go along with whatever the media feeds them. The normies have already accepted gay rights, so they think that trans rights is just gay rights 2.0. Transgenders are just another persecuted minority that they need to support in order to create a more tolerant, inclusive world. They have not yet gone deeper and have not yet discovered the undercurrent of degeneracy and depravity that lies under the polished media facade. So it is a problem of ignorance. To get more people to go against this stuff, we need to enlighten them to the truth.

 

[Strangolapreti]

Just explain them how an amhole gets filled with pus/shit and rotdog becomes covered with hair, the whole think about mtf getting hunched over also work.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

I think getting into the degeneracy and such is a somewhat losing move in the broader picture (despite being highly effective against individuals) because people are inclined to believe the "one bad apple" type explanation. I find the more unassailable positions to be, in short:
1. The central "right" they're demanding is to impose a duty on everyone else to constantly affirm their wishes even if false and/or impossible. (I find this to be a backwards notion steeped in the worst ideas of the religious "dark ages" which should theoretically appeal to leftists but just seems to upset them more because it forces them to deny something obviously true.)
2. The entire underlying theory is incoherent and makes no sense. It's not a medical condition but it "needs" medical treatment and this medical treatment is entirely cosmetic with no scientific proof any of it works or even does anything and all of it completely rejects all the tenets of known successful psychological practices by both demanding affirmation of the disordered thinking from everyone but the affected person AND claiming that it's not a mental illness anyway even as it asks for this "exceptional" treatment method.

I don't mean these as ways to necessarily convince anyone that troons should clearly be openly mocked, especially normies, but instead to introduce doubts and skepticism in supporters who would need to find answers to these and they just don't seem to exist. My second argument is because they simply claim it's science even though it follows nothing resembling a science. The main problem there is that, well, most people don't know what is science and consider science to just be magic so they're willing to trust anything some idiot says is science since it'd be pretty cool if magic was real. I mean we live in a society where people think politicians have a special machine with great big levers on it that they pull (or not) to make the "economy number" go up and down which decides what everyone on the planet chooses to do at all times and the more they dumb down the idea and say they can do it the more people believe it's true no matter how often it doesn't happen (and often spectacularly so in other countries) because the idea is simply absurd on its face. Essentially you're against a mentality that says "I don't want trans people killed, they say they're experts and their intent is to stop trans people from being killed so I don't care about the details or second order effects, we should do what they want since they know and have good intentions" even if you transposed everything to something else they'd instantly reject it for numerous reasons because they value the "intent" in this specific instance.

Of course, just in general, I have my doubts about how many people are truly willing to be skeptical about things they're told so I necessarily have to vacillate between the doomed nature of the endeavor and the divinely endowed perfection of the position that will be validated by history. (Even as I endlessly mock those who proclaim to be on the right side of history for their hubris of believing they personally represent the end of history.)

 

[AbyssGazer]

I usually just explain how ugly and dangerous HRT and tranny surgery really is. Many normies (and troons ofc) seem to think hormones and surgery is some kind of magic.

If all else fail, just go for the nuke option and show them the pictures from the tranny surgery horror thread here. You won't ever get invited to family dinner again, but you'll win the argument.

 

[Dambusters' Dog II]

If all else fail, just go for the nuke option and show them the pictures from the tranny surgery horror thread here. You won't ever get invited to family dinner again, but you'll win the argument.

This could get you the "So-and-so is obsessed with trannies, I think he might be one and is suppressing it." treatment. It's important to avoid this and appear reasonable at all times.

I'd say build up a stock of examples to show that troons are lying, so that when people bring up things like "We just want to pee", "Puberty blockers are reversible", "Trans women should be in women's jails", "We're not doing surgery on minors" you can refute them.

 

[UselessRubberKeyboard]

Ask them if they’d be happy to have a middle-aged bloke in a stupid negligee in the hospital bed next to their daughter/wife/mother. Or a middle-aged bloke in slutty makeup and fake tits examining said family members when they specifically requested a female doctor.

It’s all “be kind” until you discover it means women no longer have any rights to privacy at all.

 

[glioblastoma multiforme]

Ask them if they’d be happy to have a middle-aged bloke in a stupid negligee in the hospital bed next to their daughter/wife/mother. Or a middle-aged bloke in slutty makeup and fake tits examining said family members when they specifically requested a female doctor.

It’s all “be kind” until you discover it means women no longer have any rights to privacy at all.

i'd go the appeal to emotions route as well. if they dismiss that as unlikely then at least in the UK you can reference the person who got their surgery cancelled after requesting female only care and getting a tranny.

maybe cos i'm a wuss, but i am going for a more 'chipping away' style attempt rather than a full frontal attack. basically if something related comes up then i'll show some of my cards, but i'm not going straight in with trans women are men cos people will stop listening.

the hope is that the people i try this approach on will put the pieces together themselves. so far i've only really had two ins- the destruction of rape crisis/domestic abuse shelters. a lot of people straight up don't know what is happening and that trans ideology is directly responsible for it. i've had a mixture of "this is fucked, where can i find out more" and straight up "that can't be right but no i don't want to look up ERC and the vancouver shelter."

the other in i've had is discussing male prisoners in female prisons. i just say "i refuse to use female pronouns for a male committing predominantly male crimes" and go on to "misgender" said criminal for the duration of the conversation with no pushback. i like this because though its not an honest representation of my views (TWAM), its got some trans supporters to get used to hearing "he" and for whatever reason not feeling able to challenge people.

i'd also like to say, some normies may need less convincing than you think. i don't know how representative my friends are, but i have a straight up sex divide. every woman i've started the above with i've not needed to play softly softly with for long cos they 100% agree with me and have been scared to even express it. men its more mixed, which honestly i think is cos they have nothing to lose by this performative virtue signalling.

also, don't bother on social media. i got deleted by someone i thought wasn't an idiot for asking how medics would diagnose sex-specific illnesses (or those with sex-specific biomarkers) in trans patients if they were allowed to change their sex markers. i didn't even point out that the medics would know, regardless of whether they have an M or an F on some form. that's not the only time i've tried, i've attempted enough to know its a waste of time and energy. irl friends and family in private convos is the way to go.

 

[Kung Pow]

I don't know if you can "radicalize" normies since they can barely understand generalizations and individuals. If you say trannies are X, even if you are right, they will jump to "muh not all troons" or "muh friend is not like that" and take that as an insult against his friend, they cannot separate the two concepts. Not only that, but they will assume it is hate as if an ancient human emotion like that should be eradicated, the absolute hubris. Normies in general just want to live their lives in peace, and if that isn't the case that desire is pressured into them (often times with violence and instability) that inevitably creates conformity and tyranny, they are simply trying to live their lives with no hassle. This aggressive pacifism, peace at all cost with the highest sacrifice, will ironically create the opposite for them.

And I don't know if there is more that can be said that haven't been repeated ad nauseum already, like how you can't change your chromosomes, bones structure, how (((curiously))) the reference of words like woman and man, that naturally became traditional to refer to biological male and female, have "changed" over the years out of the blue like magic or retardation, that also creates all those alt genders that those degenerates like. And how can a man claim to be a woman when he himself have no point of reference of how being a woman is to begin with since he isn't one biologically and can only extract the superficial?

Hopefully by exposing them to the truth, eventually it will be too much for the normies, they will be pushed into the state of doublethink which is, well, maybe better than just believing a lie. This will push society into a polite society that will deeply cut into the tranny ego when they realize that people were just going along with their delusions because they don't want to upset them and not because they actually believe all that lunacy that they do, the troon will see behind the curtain and realize that people will think they are just mentally ill like your average IB/Kiwi user.

 

[S.C.U.D.]

I don't even bother anymore. In life, we all have lessons to learn. Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

 

[Mad_Dog]

If you can make it through this full podcast, you'll get a better understanding about how complex this mess is:

TL;DW Troons are apparently sacred and bringing us nearer to the 'Absolute Man' (the epitome of humanity having arrived at the end of the "right side of history" judging us primitive folks). They're supposedly breaking us free from gender's iron grip and pushing us towards the next level of evolution, like we're all on our way to becoming gods or something. Reminds you of something? That's right, Queer ideology is the snake in the Garden of Eden, luring gullible troons with promises of enlightenment, only to condemn them to a lifetime of suffering.
Good luck trying to concoct a fancy philosophical and meta-physical theory to fix this colossal disaster and make it attractive enough for the clueless masses. Yeah, we've got the perfect weapon to fight back ( ie Catholicism), but making these dimwits comprehend it is like pulling teeth.

 

[NX-01]

I don't even bother anymore. In life, we all have lessons to learn. Some people just have to learn things the hard way.

I'm at the age where a lot of friends have had children already and they're getting to school aged. One in particular will fall over himself defending things like drag queen story hour, and the only way he'll learn how evil this shit is is when his son comes home some day talking about how the man in the dress diddled him in the boys room.

 

[White Trash Motorsport]

Two simple points 1. Letting troons into women’s spaces makes indecent exposure impossible to police. 2. Troons commit the same level of violent crime as other males, and at far higher rates than women, plus they are actually more likely to be convicted for sex offences than any other group by a startling degree of magnitude.

 

[sheepworldvizor]

I’ve ‘peaked’ like 2 family members. Just dropped in the tranny prison rape stories. It also helps to clarify the types of troons, because your Hollywood ‘passing’ ones are what everyone thinks of. Most people think they all get the dickchop.
Then again, chances are whoever you talk to is fapping to tranny porn so good luck.

 

[behindyourightnow]

Verbal arguments are useless on 95% of people. The best way to convince is to use pictures, particularly of ROGD mastectomies, so that they have the images in their mind the next time someone uses the phrase "gender-affirming care."

Same with male troons. Just open a MtF subreddit (one with lots of selfies) in front of them, and ask them how they feel about these particular men in girls' changing rooms. Go directly to the troon source (like Reddit) so they can't argue that the pictures are faked or that troons like that don't exist.

That said: I would never go this route with someone I knew unless the person was already wavering and open to dissent against the trans orthodoxy. Otherwise you might just shock them into cutting you off. It's not worth ending a friendship over.

irl friends and family in private convos is the way to go.

Definitely. Never do anything in text. These days, even in private text conversations, people put up a front and won't be honest about controversial subjects, and that can extend to overreacting against you if you break the rules. I think it's because so many people are subconsciously afraid of being screencapped and having their wrongthink exposed. People are scared of anything they say being dug up 10 years from now when it might hurt them.

I have had productive gender-critical conversations with maybe a dozen people in the last year who would come across as absolute true believers to anyone who met them, and I think the key was only doing it in real life. Most people are already surprisingly TERFy once you get them speaking openly and without fear.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

First of all, don’t use words like “degeneracy” and “depravity.” It makes a person sound like a 19th-century preacher.

For me, the way I do it is to simply ask questions. I present myself as someone who is totally open-minded but there are a few things I don’t quite understand. Then ask questions that I know there is no politically correct answer to. Examples are, “I heard the number of referrals for gender treatment has gone up by something like 4000%, what happened?” Or, “If they’re physically male, what actually is it that’s female?” Or, “It seems to me that just about all the trans people I meet are autistic, is there some link there?” The aim is to make them think about it for themselves.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Always go IRL as others said. Humans can't hit "EJECT" on an IRL conversation as easily as they can online. Most normies who go on the internet aren't caring about politics because they know online arguments are futile. Phone and voicechat are fine too since the person has to rudely hang up to leave.

Go for it when the topic comes up in conversation. If you're angry at troons and need to vent, you're not bringing it up naturally. Get it out elsewhere or wait to bring it up. Tragi-chan is right, you can't run around looking like a 19th century preacher even if you feel like it's time to redo the crusades. You may understand what got you angry to the point of it, but a spewing rush of "goddammitkeffalssendshrttochildrenandjohnyannivmolestskidsandtampontroonsandcancelingniceeventsandpervingoneveryoneandwispa" all at once makes you fucking hard to understand since the experience isn't first hand.


Sometimes a hardcore transphobia transgression can be said to them in a joking matter, causing them to think. Hardcore transism include not dating a trans person who is a compatible sexual orientation to you (straight men are transphobes for turning down trans women and still transphobes for dating nonbinaries and trans men) and trans women don't need the snip or a full transition to use the women's restroom. These are things rational people take for granted. Best to listen for transphobic shitlord talk to make people question how far they can go with their own beliefs.


People like coming to conclusions themselves. Presenting criminal news stories as "jesus christ how horrifying" with a picture of the perpetrator and "she" next to it is a classic way of getting a pained look. Showing people articles you found that are interesting on the side effects of transitioning can accidentally peak people too: these people then share it with their trans friends, who then complain that they were shared this upsetting dysphoric news when your friend just wanted to keep them aware.

Present your doubts as a weakness in your own morality. No, really. "I'm having a hard time seeing Danielle as a woman," "What does it mean to be nonbinary?", and other crises of faith are perfect conversation openers. Friends tend to help friends with moral questions and will help others if they are struggling. This way, the other speaker in the conversation has to use what THEY know to defend their position. It's having them teach you about their beliefs, and the more they teach you, the more they have to bring trans logic to light. You can't be a complete smartass in these situations: if you get the urge to be a sarcastic dick to them, brush it off. You won't convince a person that you're right by being condescending to them (if they always expect sarcasm from you it's not as harsh of course) or their explanations, you'll instead show them that talking with you about it opens you up to being a dick to them. Come from a place of actual concern. Bring out one or two pieces of evidence. "I know she thinks this, but this article I read on it after she talked about it shows that it might be this, let me show you it. What do you think?" Remember, you're forcing them to think through something. They might not agree 100% today, but they'll think on it and will come to their own conclusions, which is invaluable. They also know if they have doubts, they can come to you since you too are a safe person with doubts.

While not everyone responds well and it can be a challenge, the good news is that some people will straight up say, "Yeah, I can't see Danielle as a woman right now either." Presenting weakness in your own doubts opens up people to sharing their own weakness of doubts. They can trust you since you said something personal first, now they can share with you. More people have doubts and questions than you think, they just don't always think about them since they have a lot on their plate that isn't trooning.

TL;DR: Don't go in guns at the ready, have the other person think on it themselves and let them do their own peaking. Show you're a safe haven for wrongthink.

Or just send them infographs and tranch photos.




Edit: I'm going to emphasize this: if you want to convert people, you can't be angry. If a muslim came up to you angry that you weren't muslim and furiously makes claims to get you to become one, you won't convert. The same with all political opinions. You don't like being yelled at, they don't either. You can't see the other person as beneath you or as an enemy going in. "Fucking leftists..." is a fine thought, I'M a leftist and I'll end up muttering it to myself, but does it set up a hostile us/them situation. If I said "Fucking rightwingers..." or "Fucking centrist..." that would put you on edge: you are likely one of those two, you know your identity and don't want to be told you're wrong immediately or seen as lesser even if the next words out of my mouth are something you 100% agree with.

Before you decide to argue with someone with the opposing opinion, think whether you want them to change their mind, or if you want to prove YOU are right. If it's the later, you're not scoring converts, you just want heated passionate debate or entertainment where you win a game of arguments and the other person goes home mad. That's not helping anything but your ego. Don't worry, you can still do it, but it is best left to people you know are crazy no matter what you say and you don't mind burning bridges with. Get that fight picking energy out here or on other circles where everyone laughs and claps when you dunk on others for being wrong. Our kiwi hugbox or a nice cozy politically incorrect corner are fine places to bitch and score internet points over dumbasses on the internet. Real life is where you can make a difference or attempt to. Score converts IRL with patience and understanding, score burns online because it's funny.

 

[Snuckening2]

This is data showing that mtf's commit sex crimes at 5x the rate of other men, and over 500x the rate of women.

The Rorschach Test

The release of some early 2021 census statistics relating to gender was greeted with glee and elation by Nancy Kelley, CEO of Stonewall in the UK. Vindication at last! (Kelley declined to mention t…

wingsoverscotland.com

But I've had some success with leftys IRL, if you frame stuff in leftard terms. Medical harm to kids is a good angle for non-political people, which MAY work with moderate leftards too. But the best bet with the full woke, is to focus on THEIR "designated victim" groups- gays and lesbians, and women.

Best to focus first on gays/lesbians (coz caring about women makes you a hateful TERF; One step away from Atomwaffen, or Islamic State). Altho troons love to leverage, and hide behind gays/lesbians (I'll use the word "gays" to ALSO include lesbians this whole post, coz lazy) the fact is, that troon ideology defines being gay as just as inherently "hateful transphobic bigotry", as"super-straight",; They basically insist that gays/lesbians MUST be bisexual; A lesbian MUST be OK with sucking the feminine lady-cock, and gay men MUST be down for eating "trans-man" pussy.

The fact that gay/lesbian is also called "same-SEX attraction" is handy, since troonism says that ANY recogniton of sex = a transphobic hatecrime (No gay/lesbian ever called themself "same-GENDER attracted", because that is functionally just "being bisexual". )

So any TRUE, 100% same-sex gay/lesbian is by definition "a hateful, transphobic bigot", according to trans ideology (and sure, troons are 500x more likely to call out someone straight. But mtf's have been demanding sex from lesbians for years. And ftm's have now ALSO been making demands of gay men, for a few years. It'll only KEEP getting more demanding...)

So it's not an exageration to say that trans ideology is inherently anti-gay, thus "homophobic"(obviously a good way to get a woketard's attention/sympathy), and if troons got their way, there'd be ZERO truly "gay', same-SEX attracted people, just like there'd be no "super-straight", only fucking opposite sex. (There'd only be FAKE "gays", selecting by "gender" instead of sex)

There's also the fact that the "trans kids" horrorshow is effectively "conversion therapy" for kids who'd otherwise become gay- Virtually ALL gays are 'gender non-conforming' in childhood, as well as being confused, unsure, and insecure about sex and identity, overall. Making them super-easy targets for getting transed. TRA's always talk like it's a 100% certainty who is/isn't a """trans kid""", but the reality is that NOBODY, not doctors, not psycholgists, not parents, or even the kids themselves, know which 10yo will be trans at age 20, vs those who'd turn out gay, vs tomboys/theatre-kids/kids who act 'gender non-conforming', but straight. But if you look at detrans stories, I'd say that well over 50% of detransitioners are gay (mostly girls/lesbian, really). A LOT blame their transition on "internalized homophobia" (another buzzword, good for getting lefties onboard)

But, like conservative, Muslim, super anti-gay Iran's policy for making homos (kinda) vanish, since the 70's, """Gender Affirming Care""" is functionally converting destined-to-be-gay children, into (the ILLUSION of) gender-conforming, heterosexuals (possibly THE WORST thing a lefty can do, right? Think of all the poosex they're preventing!!!)

Another good angle for wokies, is the fact that the drugs/surgery are intended to make you CONFORM to gender stereotypes (from within their "transwomen ARE women" mindset, where you ignore sex and assume everyone totally passes, at least)-ie, They aim to have everyone who likes pink, and frilly dresses, and painting their nails end up with breasts and female fat distribution, using female pronouns and being "a girl/woman". And everyone who likes trucks, and football, and plaid shirts ends up with facial hair and a flat chest, using male pronuns, and being "a boy/man" (regardless of sex, in both cases obviously). So """"Gender Affirming Care""" really DOES erase the genuinely 'gender non-conforming' kids, that they claim to be championing. And (if you ignore sex, like leftism demands) it actively ENFORCES and PROMOTES the exact gender-norms that the ideology claims to oppose.

Anti-woman stuff, like locking male convicted rapists in a cell with women, or men invading women's sports CAN be a good issue, too. But if you're talking to a leftard who's very familiar with trans politics, you do also risk being dismissed as "an evil TERF" if you lead with that stuff (then again, for older lefty women, the woman stuff may get them onboard).

Also, video/photos/reports of women getting attacked/mobbed/beaten/harangued by monstrous, non-passing mtf's can be a good way to get a sympathetic, emotional response- Swimmer Riley Gaines getting mobbed. Or 60-something Maria McLachlan got beat to the ground, by three 20yo men in dresses (below). Even if they're pro-troon, most semi-normal people still get pissed off/disgusted, seeing three young males (even "transwomen") beating up an aging woman.

So yeah, tell them trans ideology is "anti-gay"/"homophobic", "anti-woman"/"misogynist". Anti-child too, of course. Piggyback on views the lefty ALREADY holds, rather than try to get them to adopt a NEW view ("troons are bad") whole-cloth.

(another angle, which they probably won't accept NOW, but may put a pebble in their shoe, is list off some big-name mtf's, Contra, PhilosophyChoob, Keffals, basically any white mtf they'll know of, and point out how trans ideology is a way for the evil straight, wealthy, white male to instantly, 100% voluntarily go from "LEAST oppressed" status, where they can't moral high-ground ANYONE, to basically opt-in to "MOST oppressed" status, where suddenly now they can high-horse EVERYONE; Natal women, blacks, gays- basically everyone except black troons. )

And maybe obvious, but it's always good to point out that there's just literally ZERO hard, empirical evidence behind the foundational claims of troonism, like "trans-women ARE women"- Which really is just a straight-up religious mantra, although most of the pro-troon side genuinely seem to have never questioned the claim. But, like the Matt Walsh movie says, it's literally impossible to give a meaningfull, non-circular, evidence-based definition of "women" which DOES include mtf's, but which DOESN'T define all men as "women". Usually they'll give some variant of "a woman is anyone that ID's as a woman", but even THEY know this circular bullshit is useless.

An (actual, evidence-based) woman can NEVER EVER become a "transwoman"; It's definitionally impossible.

And ONLY men can EVER become "transwomen". It may be obvious, but it's worth spelling the fact that their most often-used mantra is the 100% OPPOSITE of the evidence-based truth (truths so undeniable, that even most leftists will accept each individual step, even if they deny the inevitable conclusion those steps lead to)

Another good question is "So, if trans-woman are women, and trans-men are men, then what is the name for the group that ONLY includes ALL adults who were born with ovaries, and/or with XX chromosomes, and nobody else? Or, to use their language "What is the group that includes ALL 'cis' women, ALL trans-men, ALL adult, AFAB non-binary folx, but NO biological males, and no children?" Or, to phrase it ANOTHER other way, "What's the name for ONLY every adult human female, but which includes NO males, NO children?" ...Because, under their retarded, transwoman-inclusve, feels-based definition of "woman", they now HAVE NO WORD for "adult human female", or "biological women" (both hatespeech, in trans circles). The best they can do is terms like "AFAB", or "uterus-owner", which fail coz they DO include chldren. Or else make up some NEW parts-bin nonsense, like "adult XX-chromosome-haver". Which can be a good way to drive home that (a) they're erasing "women", as a sex-based catagory. And (b) that the (real, evidence-based) word "women" is USEFUL; More than that, it's neccessary- WTF do we call 'Women's Hospitals', or 'Womens Health Services', if we have no word for adult females? (and even "female" is being similarly eroded into uselessness, right this second)

But overall, the trick with leftards is DON'T focus on "troons are bad"; DO focus on "you know how gays/lesbians/women are totally super-duper-oppressed? Well, look who's DOING that oppressing..."

 

[Balr0g]

Nuff said

Also this faggot fled from TikTok and can now be found on youtube making shorts while also disaabling the dislike button.

 

[gigatard]

So many normies who support troons don't actually know any, so the Oppressed Trans Woman is just a theoretical in their mind that liberals have told them to fight for. Since we all know that all transwomen on earth are dangerous coomers at worst and absolute lolcows at best, I think it's pretty effective to just.... expose them to what trans women are really like.

"Oh, Dylan Mulvaney? I think it's so creepy how she calls herself a little girl."

*wrinkling nose* "Isn't the author of that article the same one who said little girls are kinky?"

"Oh right, Manhunt, that book with like a million rape scenes in it. That author puts violent rape into all of their books, sometimes about kids ."

Sunlight is the best disinfectant imho.

 

[LateNightMuffin]

Send them to reduxx, which has tons of great articles.

reduxx