Attack on Titan Griefing Thread - >tfw even your VA thinks that you're a loser

How will Eren be stopped?


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Earlier in the thread, you guys pointed out that Isayama is into some shady things like torturing Reiner for some reason. What's the deal?

I think it has to do with this weird mockup

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Annie got sealed in the crystal because if she hadn’t, a lot of these plot twist and reveals would have come our way earlier. Simple as that.

Da hell...what is she now Noctis from FF15?

On a whole other note, my god the more I hear about this ongoing series from you guys the more I want to pat myself in the back after watching the final episode of season 1, that is, when it was revealed that the titans were somehow part of the wall the whole time. I remember telling my brother there is no way they're going to explain this bullcrap that actually makes any sense and just gave up on the series. I think the only reason(s) I had come to that conclusion was that I had already experienced that gut instinct feeling with one too many animes and movies (*cough* The Force Awakens *cough*) to get the impression the creator/writer was just going to make stuff up as he went along and sure enough that is exactly what it sounds like has happened.

What is even the point of this series any more? Honestly. Destroy walls and build bridges like what the Left slavishly chant about? Subverting expectations? Shipping? Like wtf. Assuming there was a point to the series, how haven't they already reached it? Like it seems to me, far too many folks in the anime/manga industry have a few pretty interesting idea(s) to throw out there. And sometimes they'll hit us with all the cool and moving stuff in the beginning, but once that sort of high is gone and they actually have to try to explain wth is going on, everything crashes and burns.
 
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Not saying genocide is a good idea, but I'm not seeing any better ones at this point. Marley's been made out to be total monsters (and the rest of the world isn't shown to be much better). The ancient Eldians were total monsters, the modern-day Eldians aren't all that great either. Every group in the series is just begging to get shoved into ovens, so which one am I supposed to pick (and does it even matter at this point?)

It no longer matters. This series does not have a protagonist, nor does it have an antagonist. Everyone and everything in it has become pointless. I don't feel connected to any of the characters, nor does their 'struggle' matters to me. Its been all inflated bullshit. There are also ways to destory marley without genocide, and I mention them below.

Here's the thing with Eren's genocide plan. When you look at Eren's character from start to finish, this outcome was entirely possible and made complete sense. He wanted to kill them all, them being the titans, and now that he's done that, he can't stop killing, and has become the very thing he hates. That's an understandable character arc, and a unique ending for AoT's original genre. If we're going by the first few arcs of the series, this is not a problem

The problem is that by the time of the Marleyan arc everything has just become too complicated, and convoluted for this to be executed properly. There's just too many plot holes, inconsistencies, questions, and world-building issues for a straight forward ending like this to work out. There's way too many outside factors at this point. Where do the PATHs system, Ymir, and everything fit into this? Simply put, they don't.

Again, it's not the idea, but just how fucking terrible the execution of that idea has been.

If I had to rewrite this plot, and had to include his genocide plan, I would just simply have Eren become so far gone that he can't stop killing, and perceive everything outside the Walls as the threat to his life, and his friends. The outside world that he longed to see when he was a kid is now nothing more, but another titan for him to deal with. Hell, if I was forced to include the KoM, they would at least make more sense here, because after we have the Paradiser over throw them, we can have Eren decide that there's no point in trusting Outsiders, and that everyone else outside the Walls needs to be destroyed. It doesn't matter that he has never met them, or the fact that they're good people, he doesn't care. He's too far off his rocker to stop.

There's no PATHs system, or any other shit like that. No Ymir, no Historia baby, no Eldians, and if I was forced to include the KoM, I'd just have them be the first outside civilization the Paradisers encountered, and they just happen to be evil. Basically, none of the crazy magical shit we have to deal with now. I'd would just keep it as straight forward and simple as possible.

It's not very good, but if I absolutely had to keep this end goal the same, this is what I would do.

Eren's genocide plan doesn't make much sense at all in the current iteration of the story. It was all 'freedom freedom' and his motivations were basically shrouded, along with his emotions. Making there really no build up to this point. It was never shocking as people predicted this forever ago. I don't know why he thinks its a total shocker. It was because him being shrouded in mystery could only mean something terrible along with the way Eren was behaving, but there's really nothing backing this behavior. He could blow up all the industry, military and all of that of the mainland. Just wreck it, bring the Titans back and restore the walls. Its actually pretty simple, it would take them decades and decades to rebuild. Also if you destroy all the governments, the whole continent will be in complete disarray. You just don't go back to conquer it. You've completely cut off all the heads of the snake: military, industrial, political. You leave the farms and the other civilian infrastructure alone. You basically neuter their capacity to wage war and competent leadership. Countries typically don't come back from that and its highly likely Marley itself will de-evolve into civil war. Genocide is completely unnecessary.

Eren basically has the dream: Unstoppable forces to destabilize entire countries while limiting civilian casualties, yet he decides to use it to genocide. My question: Why? You throw the main continent into chaos, with different leadership factions vying for control, too busy to consolidate their own power than care about an offensive. Its an extremely logical, even-headed maneuver. You can also exploit that chaos by offering support to the warring factions. Basically, ensuring Marley is a state of eternal civil war and can never, ever possibly unify for centuries. Pass down the Power of the First Titan to Non-royalty and you literally have a God-King to which Marley can never touch. Re-do the programming so it can only be activated for defensive reasons. You punish Marley, preserve Eldia and don't have to genocide anyone.

"They'll always hate us" isn't necessarily true. And even if it is, you have an arms stand off. Its just really...stupid. "I'm genociding to stop genocide and they're evil, even though this is clearly the same logic they use against us. I am 100% better." This argument is hilariously fucking incompetent. Eren is arguably unstoppable at this point and without some bullshit he's going to extinguish all life for really no good reason. Without a desux ex machina, I don't see how he's stoppable.

You could have established that the constant bloodshed Eren experienced, the deluge of memories (I'd keep the Attack Titan memories, but not through time and space, just the memories of the holders), his alienation only experiencing hatred, his friends becoming distant from him, becoming addicted to the adrenaline rush of battle and conflict, and being unable to stop. He becomes insane and less and less rational. Being so young, exposed to such extreme emotions and become a monster who has experienced centuries of hate and it just overwhelms him. Maybe during that flashback it triggered an Attack Titan user's memory of being slowly tortured to death and it starts to mentally break Eren, become less and less sure of who he is.

The main conflict of the manga becomes between Eren, Mikasa and Armin vs. Everyone trying to use him as a tool of war and them trying to keep someone they love sane. Its extremely emotional, because we've seen them as kids and his father basically cursed him with this insatiable bloodlust. Its not even Eren's fault, it goes with the theme that its this cruel world. The focus would be completely away from politics. KoM would barely be there, but the emotional tension would be between this changing Eren, who is struggle to control his burdening bloodlust and his friends. The political angle comes from the brass who love using Eren as a living weapon and are only happy to exploit his growing bloodshed for their own ends. Eren wouldn't be a political outcast, he'd be an 'ally' of the monarchy, their dog of war. Eren struggles between his own agency, his desire for freedom for his people being pure and his desire for an eternal war being the man conflict. It'd be Man vs. Nature. The ultimate feeling of compassion before his people vs. the unyielding rage of a monster created by the world itself, callous and indifferent to life, guilty or innocent.

I'd portray Eren more as a victim, Mikasa would take over protagonist duties after the basement. We're familiar with her and can empathize and sympathize at how someone she loves is being exploited. The problem is people start viewing her to be a freak once the truth about her nature is revealed, drastically reducing her influence. Eren would be an anti-hero, maybe you even have a twist and have Levi or Hange be the antagonists, wanting to use Eren for their own ends, not caring the psychological, physical and mental tolls that he takes. They view him less and less of a human being and more as a tool. Maybe have Eren and Historia have a relationship, but because of what he is, he is never allowed to see her again, further driving him mad. Especially add to his agony knowing that he's a father and he can never, ever see his child. Or the woman he loves ever again, under the threat of his, Mikasa and Armin's execution.

The problem is he's bundled down everything with so much unnecessary shit and created mystery boxes for no reason and uses flashbacks to justify exposition. Then there's the 'big events' that don't even matter. (Annie being Crystalized, Historia and Eren's relationship, Historia's Pregnancy, Schondinger Levi...) everything is dwarfed compared to the fucking literal end of the world.

The Genocide plot could work...in Context of being built up over the past 60-70 chapters. Also eliminate Paths, Ymir, Zeke sidling a bit, maybe as batshit as Eren but naturally a sociopath, to contrast Eren being a victim with his brother being a genuine evil piece of shit. You feel for Eren as people just manipulate him and he tries to resist, but his growing rage, schizophrenic identity crisis, the loss of friendship and isolation due to his superiors cutting him off from his emotional support. This leads him to basically embrace the Attack Titan's extreme emotional state of violence and bloodshed, because that's literally the only thing he has left. Make Eren a tragic figure, driven to madness by the exploitation of his own good will, the callousness of others and a monster his father made him.

I mean, that's a real tragic story. Eren comitting genocide not because he believes it, but because he has genuinely lost every single thing in his life and he is unable to bear the pain and rage of the Attack Titan's assault on his psyche no more. He no longer has any human connections because they were cruelly taken from him by the powers-that-be who viewed him as a perfect tool and not a person. The consequences come when they push Eren too far, when he has nothing left.

You could also make it so instead of Genocide, he seeks to stamp out all life in his madness, because humanity has been the source of his pain. Maybe through his former friends and allies, they bring him down and cut him out. With total devastation, there's nothing and no rules left to bind him. You've got a decision to free him from his madness or have him be so far gone he begs to die. Maybe there's a way to cut out the Attack Titan out of his body, or an ancient technology that is part of a McGuffin part. The final shot is a devastated world, but all factions have essentially been destroyed. There's no more Marley, no More Paradis, no More Eldians and no more Titans (ala the MacGuffin). The final shot is a crippled Eren, physically and psychologically, recovering with Historia, his child and Mikasa (ship Mikasa x Armin or something, this manga needs more emotion). The world is being rebuilt, and nobody knows if it will be as terrible as the old one, but leave them with a bit of hope, that the world is now free. Or do this with Eren dying, but I'm not a fan of throwing characters through extreme pain for a long time and just having them dying.

Of course, for my plot to work you'd have to DRASTICALLY change after the basement and limit KoM, Paths and Zeke. But that's really par for the course with 90% of the revisions that have to be done.

The sad thing is there's a LOT of interesting ways you can play this. And he basically chose the shittiest route.
 
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Forgive me, I know this is off-topic, but I have to get this off my chest. I really, really hate that clowns are now canon.

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I know it's a dumb thing to get mad about, and that it doesn't matter, because there's so much more important shit to get pissed off about right now, but I just can't with this thing.

I could handle the stupidity. I could handle the mindfuckery. I could handle the asspulls, and plot holes. I could handle the batshit insane plot even if I stopped being able to actually follow it ages ago. I could even handle the catastrophic world-building breakage.

But I can't handle this level of cringe.
 
Forgive me, I know this is off-topic, but I have to get this off my chest. I really, really hate that clowns are now canon.

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I know it's a dumb thing to get mad about, and that it doesn't matter, because there's so much more important shit to get pissed off about right now, but I just can't with this thing.

I could handle the stupidity. I could handle the mindfuckery. I could handle the asspulls, and plot holes. I could handle the batshit insane plot even if I stopped being able to actually follow it ages ago. I could even handle the catastrophic world-building breakage.

But I can't handle this level of cringe.
I'm not really surprised cause I remember one of the season one anime OVAs established that magicians existed so clowns aren't that much of a stretch.
 
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Its because its the laziest fucking thing imaginable. Its incredibly simple to set up a mystery. Its a LOT harder to make it pay off.
Except any normal person would actually make the effort to create a payoff, unless money and personal beliefs is only on your mind.
 
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Eh, it predates JJ as a problem. *Looks at X-files*

I really can't fault the X-Files, as that was when television was moving from episodes that had no connection to each other and essentially 'reset' and a more serialized format. So you had X-Files and Stark Trek: TNG as revolutionary shows whose episodes connected and just weren't one offs. Since it was a whole new idea, it struggled with the concept, as did TNG. The reason why the stand-alone episodes were the best in the X-Files was because stand-alone TV shows were the standard back in the day, so everyone working on them knew how to do them. Doing a serialized format, for a long time, was considered a 'waste of time' because executives felt that if viewers missed an episode they'd stop watching the show. Which is why the serialized format didn't catch on until home video took off, where you could buy series that you missed. Obviously now with all the streaming services and online binging, serialization trumps stand alone television.

Nowadays, however, there is no excuse.

So basically Isayama is the Japanese JJ Abrams?

Except any normal person would actually make the effort to create a payoff, unless money and personal beliefs is only on your mind.

Another reason is that mystery boxes are place-holders for when you don't know where you want a story to go but need to keep the audience invested. Isayama has done this a LOT. The basement and following time skip is the perfect example. I don't believe for a second he knew what was in that basement until he was forced to reveal it. And when he did, he lost like 50% of his readers and everything went to shit. The manga has been so haphazard from that point and the quality, plot and characterization has basically plummeted slowly with every subsequent chapter until it has now cratered into the Earth and burrowing towards China.

Isayama is not a normal person. He wants to 'hurt' his readers and typically forces the story to go in directions he wants to go with a complete lack of organic direction. He was so obsessed with keeping so many things mysterious, eventually when he had to reveal things, they no longer mattered because the motivations for these actions needed to be built up for a very long time. Instead he thinks that several panels in two pages is enough. He frequently retcons his own work and forces pieces to fit where they don't belong. He's done so many 'mystery boxes', entire plots that looked like they'd be important have been completely side-lined by, you know, Eren becoming a literal God. Who gives a shit who fucked Historia? Who cares if Levi is alive? Who cares if Annie is in a crystal? Eren is ending the fucking world. Whatever plot threads they might have held or lead up to no longer matter. The events that are happening now dwarf their importance so much that they are laughably irrelevant and the answers to them don't matter fuck all.

I think what pisses me off most about 'Attack on Titan' is that the idea and story before the basement had vast amounts of potential. There was so much you could do with it. I was wrong when he said he couldn't write relationships before. The relationships before were good and there were some good dynamics. But now, there are no characters. There's no protagonist, there's no antagonist. There's just nothing here and no emotional resonance. Its completely empty. Its a book on life support just waiting to finally fucking die. The anime should really focus on its own thing and ignore Isayama, but they won't because money.

Sometimes that's why I hate anime. When they shouldn't make their own ending, they do (Fuck you, Akame ga Kill) and when they should, they don't (this one).
 
Something I'm actually interested in is how they're gonna try to stop Eren at this point. Not because it would be good writing or anything, but because I'm actually really curious on how they're gonna try to pull it off. That is if Isayama doesn't just have Eren succeed, and kill everyone, because he wants to hurt his readers. Part of me thinks he's gonna puss out, though, and do I wanna see what deus ex machina saves the day if that happens.

Friendly reminder that's Eren current for looks like this.
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This is an edit someone did that includes the rough math on how huge Eren is, and he's currently over 1000ft tall (350M= 1,148ft, which is roughly the size of The Empire fucking State Building.) He also appears to be either made mostly out of bone, or entirely out of bone. I can't tell because Isayama's art is shit. Either way, there's only two plausible ways out of this, at least how I see it.

1) Either Zeke, Annie, Ymir, or some other PATHs system user resets the clock, and stops all of this from ever happening in the first place.

Or...

2) Nukes are dropped. C'mon, would anyone be surprised at this point if nukes also existed in this world? The KoM might not have them, but the other countries might. What I'm saying is that after clowns, Nazis, and time-travel, anything is possible.

Thunderspears would likely either just bounce off him, or at best, would detonate, and just scratch the surface. Not to mention, they have to deal with literally everything else. I'm really trying to wrack my brain on how to win this, and other than those two options I listed, I'm not seeing another way out.
 
Something I'm actually interested in is how they're gonna try to stop Eren at this point. Not because it would be good writing or anything, but because I'm actually really curious on how they're gonna try to pull it off. That is if Isayama doesn't just have Eren succeed, and kill everyone, because he wants to hurt his readers. Part of me thinks he's gonna puss out, though, and do I wanna see what deus ex machina saves the day if that happens.

Friendly reminder that's Eren current for looks like this.
View attachment 1012721

This is an edit someone did that includes the rough math on how huge Eren is, and he's currently over 1000ft tall (350M= 1,148ft, which is roughly the size of The Empire fucking State Building.) He also appears to be either made mostly out of bone, or entirely out of bone. I can't tell because Isayama's art is shit. Either way, there's only two plausible ways out of this, at least how I see it.

1) Either Zeke, Annie, Ymir, or some other PATHs system user resets the clock, and stops all of this from ever happening in the first place.

Or...

2) Nukes are dropped. C'mon, would anyone be surprised at this point if nukes also existed in this world? The KoM might not have them, but the other countries might. What I'm saying is that after clowns, Nazis, and time-travel, anything is possible.

Thunderspears would likely either just bounce off him, or at best, would detonate, and just scratch the surface. Not to mention, they have to deal with literally everything else. I'm really trying to wrack my brain on how to win this, and other than those two options I listed, I'm not seeing another way out.

The point is: There is no plausible, in universe way to stop him at this point that has been introduced, hinted at or explained. He has the ear of Ymir, an immortal Goddess who controls time, space and the ultimate power of the Titans. He himself has ascended to Godhood and mastery over an entire race and the people with the power to stop him. If anyone tried to stop him, he could simply erase all of their memories, possibly even freeze all of their motor functions. If you can euthanize an entire race by eliminating their fertility, which is an extremely complex action, paralyzing people is a simple task. Eren is at the apex of PATHs. Zeke, with all of his knowledge and power of PATHs was deceived and used by Eren. The other titans barely know how to use it. If they could, Eren is at its center with a Goddess by his side. Who created the very power they hold. Good luck with that. Not to mention the extent of the founder's power is unknown. From what we have seen, it transcends time and space and can manipulate reality. Have fun trying to fight a God that with Sniper Rifles or Explosives.

There is no possible way to stop him in combat. There just isn't. The Founder made Titans who were so massive they created walls. He erased the minds of entire people. He brainwashed populations and had extensive combat experience constantly passed down to them painstakingly because he had a singular conscious by manipulating space-time and implanting knowledge over and over again. This singular conscious, which has existed for centuries upon centuries has been entirely subsumed by Eren's will. And erased from existence. Let me put it another way: He destroyed the consciousness of a living God and took control of its powers.

And remember, that's JUST EREN ALONE. Not the unstoppable army of fucking flesh mechas he has. Not to mention any Titan he can create. To put it simply, its like people with bows and ballistas fighting mechas with laser cannons. There is no victory possible. "Well, all you have to do stop the gigantic Titans that are so hot they burn everything around them and regenerate near instantaneously and are so big they can cross the ocean by walking on it is to kill a living God that manipulates reality, space time and created the only possible things to stop him, which he has ultimate control over. Oh, and he has a Goddess on his side too. No big deal guys. We're just mortals armed with sharpy swords and World War I equivalent rifles and haven't even invented anything resembling a rocket or major explosive. We're not going to totally fucking be obliterated in seconds."

Anything, ANYTHING, combative that stops him or isn't part of Eren's will is pure Deus Ex Machina. It is God from the Machine. He is purely unstoppable at this point. Only the author fiat can stop him.

I mean, I'll repeat it again because I know we're going to see some bullshit: There is no way for Eren to lose now. Nothing in the manga has ever been hinted at to rival him. Even the Devil has not been mentioned, because if he appears and goes 'lol no u lose' (why would he, Satan loves a good genocide), it is author fiat. Nothing introduced, no information hinted, nothing foreshadowed, can stop him. He has mastered time and space. He has mastered physical reality. He has an army of Titans which has never been seen by human eyes before. The nukes have left their silos. The subs have risen and are launching their TITAN (heh) nukes at you. You have no missile intercept system. You have no iron dome. You have no way to get the nuclear codes. The ICBMS are in space. The only thing to do is put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Ok, so now that I've established that he's purely unstoppable, lets establish, realistically in terms of this ever-living clusterfuck of a story, how he could be stopped. I'm ignoring combat completely, because there's just nothing. There isn't. If anyone has any evidence in the manga itself, feel free, because I don't see fuck all there. If he's defeated in combat, Deus Ex Machina. I don't care how, I don't care why, its pure bullshit author fiat. Now...that being said...

1) Mikasa reasons with him. She magically understands why he went full Hitler so maybe she can talk him into stopping it.

2) He allows himself to be defeated. I don't know why. We have no evidence for this. I assume it'll be entirely revealed in the same chapter it happens with no motivation at all before hand supporting it. Then everyone in the world suddenly and randomly comes together and sings peace songs and hymns and the people on Paradis forget they were in a concentration camp enduring unending suffering and misery and the whole place across the ocean forgets they're Jews Island Devils and embraces them as brothers. Basically cribbing one of the worst anime endings of all time, which would essentially rubber stamp his hack status.

3) Historia magically re-appears and its Eren's baby. She convinces Eren to stop.

4) This is all a ploy to get the Devil to show up out of hiding. Eren's 'Just as Planned', he fights and kills the Devil and ends the power of the Titans and dies. HE WAS A HERO ALL ALONG YOU SEE GUYZ (Also fuck you if this happens).

5) Nobody stops him. He wipes out all life, gets a massive erection and masturbates all over the corpses before Mikasa tearfully beheads him while he goes 'lol too late'

6) Eren destroys all life and realizes it was completely wrong. He sends himself back in time but is so tainted by rage he sends that back too resulting in a permanent time loop. The ending panel is an ironically dark portrait of Grisha saying to his son that he's free when he's going to murder the entirety of a people.

6.5a) Army of the Evil Dead Alternate Ending. Eren realizes it was too late, sends himself back to the founding Titan, his rage carries over and results in him being his own grandfather in permanent time loop.

7) Somehow Eren realizes he's in a time loop and somehow travels back through time to stop the hate boner everyone has for each other and murders the devil and wakes up in an alternate reality, has a kid with somebody and only has the barest memories of what may have occurred.

8) Turns out Eren is Satan incarnate, wipes out all life and was just playing at that whole freedom thing and rules a dead land for all eternity while sitting on a throne of Marelyan skulls dripping with blood.

9) Eren realizes the error of his ways when he's stomping and murdering entire villages so he stops half-way through and forces a peace with Marley and just lets the founder die with him. Total cop-out, whimper ending.

10) Gabi becomes an Avatar of Ymir for no reason and then defeats Eren in single combat while Paradis is annihilated due to their fight and Marley is annihilated because nobody bothered to stop a rampaging army of monsters. Rocks fall, everyone dies.

10.5) It turns out Eren is Satan and Gabi is an Avatar of Ymir and she grows to adulthood in a second with equal power of Eren and they fight, but in their fight they nearly destroy all life. They finally stop and realize they were made for each other. They become Adam and Eve and fuck off somewhere. Because this manga needs more Jeduo-Christian references for some reason, if there weren't enough already.

Probably none of this will happen and he'll be defeated by Deus Ex Machina anyway. But I'm stopping since I'm getting into complete batshit territory now, but as Hunter Thompson once said, "This is bat country."
 
12.) Erin wakes up from this terrible nightmare and realizes he was sleeping in a normal, Modern day school and the last 2 chapters suddenly become a High School Slice of Life Harem Manga.

Edit : Yes I skipped 11, but 11 was so horrible nobody wants to see it.
 
12.) Erin wakes up from this terrible nightmare and realizes he was sleeping in a normal, Modern day school and the last 2 chapters suddenly become a High School Slice of Life Harem Manga.

Edit : Yes I skipped 11, but 11 was so horrible nobody wants to see it.

No, we're not skipping 11:

11) Gabi powers up, becomes an avatar of Ymir and defeats Eren, bringing peace to the world. Or just hatches a fucktarded McGuvyer plan and stops him. Or just stops him for any reason.

You may gouge your eyes out now.
 
No, we're not skipping 11:

11) Gabi powers up, becomes an avatar of Ymir and defeats Eren, bringing peace to the world. Or just hatches a fucktarded McGuvyer plan and stops him. Or just stops him for any reason.

You may gouge your eyes out now.

See I legit had "Naruto Shows up through a hole in time and space and Talk-no-Jutsus Erin into being a good guy again like he did with Pain."
 
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