Attack on Titan Griefing Thread - >tfw even your VA thinks that you're a loser

[Gar For Archer]

I haven't followed Attack on Titan but I know the feeling you're describing all too well, this last decade has been fucking rough with few highlights.

For me one of the biggest highlights has been Red Letter Media.

But anyway, I meant to get into this series years ago but never did and I'm not sure whether I made the right call or not, it's of course turned into a clusterfuck but it sounds like maybe it's an interesting clusterfuck at least?

I do know if one thing can be said about Japanese storytellers it's that they struggle with endings, I remember how fucking hyped the Hellsing manga made me but the ending basically peters out instead of offering a real satisfying conclusion even though all the pieces were there for an epic showdown, but you could tell at some point Kohta Hirano was just sick of it and rushed the ending.

And more often than not that's how it goes for anime and manga, it's definitely about the journey and not the destination.

I mean hell, this doesn't just apply to anime/manga but video game series as well, Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill have after all is said and done just left us wanting more.

Not sure why this seems to be such a problem for Japanese culture.

I’ve said this before, but it’s not a problem with Japanese culture, it’s a problem with weekly/monthly serialized storytelling. Hell, with serialized storytelling in general.

With a story that’s being released weekly or monthly in small chunks, immediate excitement and payoff is incentivized over building an overarching narrative, and having an interesting concept that immediately hooks the reader and keeps them hooked chapter to chapter is by far the MOST important thing to do. It’s possible to do this and ALSO build an overarching narrative, but that requires the ability to make a plan and be able to adapt it on the fly as the situation inevitably changes, OR the latent talent of being able to retcon/incorporate new plot points without hurting the integrity of your story.

The other issue is that by its very nature, a long, monthly-serialized story like Attack on Titan is written in chapter-sized portions over the course of nearly a decade. That’s a long-ass time - people change, your vision for what the story was supposed to be is going to change as well. So, you either stick to your original vision and risk writing a story you’re no longer passionate about, or you sacrifice the overall thematic/tonal cohesion and write what you want to write. There’s no winning here.

I for one am enjoying the recent trend of Shonen manga getting much shorter and having a more-or-less cohesive overarching plan, and just.... ending when it’s supposed to instead of dragging on interminably well past its sell-by date.

 

[Protistology]

Not to mention the editors who say "lol this is popular, instead of ending it when you wanted, write 100 more chapters" (A la Dragonball or Death Note or "lol add a love rival to add drama" (Dosanko Gyaru).

 

[Dom Cruise]

I for one am enjoying the recent trend of Shonen manga getting much shorter and having a more-or-less cohesive overarching plan, and just.... ending when it’s supposed to instead of dragging on interminably well past its sell-by date.

I'm definitely of the mind that it's better for something to quit while it's ahead instead of drag on for too long, provided you have an ending that leaves one satisfied.

Only thing I disagree with is Metal Gear Solid not having a proper ending.

MGS 4 was the ending of the series and it was a proper one. At least for me.

SOP is brought down by Ocelot (Son of the Boss) and Solid Snake (clone of Big Boss). The two have one last fight. Ocelot dies. World is free from the system.

Big Boss kills Zero, reconciles with Solid Snake and finally understands the Bosses will. Then passes away at peace.

Raiden is back with is family

Solid Snake is at peace with his impending death and lives his last year at peace with Otacon and Sunny. Who are a family now.

I got everything I wanted for an ending to the MGS series.

Us AOT fans could of only prayed we got an ending like that.

You're correct... if you're talking Solid Snake's story, that was finished.

The trouble is Big Boss's wasn't, Phantom Pain basically doesn't have an ending, it just stops, we never had that "Lord Vader, rise" moment for Big Boss where he finally becomes the full on villain of MG1 and MG2 even though it feels like Kojima was building up to that and wanting to bring the entire series full circle, it definitely feels like MGS as a series has one last game in it but Kojima and Konami split and it'll probably never happen.

It feels like Kojima got a little greedy, all we really needed to understand Big Boss as a character was that final shot of 3 of him saluting the Boss's grave to understand why he did what he did, but Kojima wanted to explore it further but fate intervened and he wasn't able to finish it.

So as a whole, the series ends on a sour note, although continuity wise it does have a satisfactory ending, but to me the logical end point of the series as a whole was retelling Solid Snake's and Big Boss's confrontation, that would have been the perfect note to end it on, through the whole series we fight and fight and win every time, save for one last Big Boss game where we finally fight a fight that we can only lose, the tables are turned with Big Boss now in The Boss's position, booya that would have been a poignant ending, "this is good, isn't it"?

I definitely feel like you could do at least one last game with Metal Gear but I'd only want to be done by Kojima, if that can't then it is best to just Let It Be.

In the case of Silent Hill you can and I do, look at 3 as a finale, but there was still such a mysteriousness to Silent Hill as a whole that was never explained and little plot threads like the Little Baroness ship mentioned in 2 (no, the arcade game does NOT count) that it definitely feels like Team Silent wanted to tell more stories, but they got Konami'd, same with Kojima.

It's just something I've noticed with a lot of Japanese media, you're usually left in some way hanging, wondering what became of that world or it's characters.

 

[KEKMUHLORD]

I'm definitely of the mind that it's better for something to quit while it's ahead instead of drag on for too long, provided you have an ending that leaves one satisfied.


You're correct... if you're talking Solid Snake's story, that was finished.

The trouble is Big Boss's wasn't, Phantom Pain basically doesn't have an ending, it just stops, we never had that "Lord Vader, rise" moment for Big Boss where he finally becomes the full on villain of MG1 and MG2 even though it feels like Kojima was building up to that and wanting to bring the entire series full circle, it definitely feels like MGS as a series has one last game in it but Kojima and Konami split and it'll probably never happen.

It feels like Kojima got a little greedy, all we really needed to understand Big Boss as a character was that final shot of 3 of him saluting the Boss's grave to understand why he did what he did, but Kojima wanted to explore it further but fate intervened and he wasn't able to finish it.

So as a whole, the series ends on a sour note, although continuity wise it does have a satisfactory ending, but to me the logical end point of the series as a whole was retelling Solid Snake's and Big Boss's confrontation, that would have been the perfect note to end it on, through the whole series we fight and fight and win every time, save for one last Big Boss game where we finally fight a fight that we can only lose, the tables are turned with Big Boss now in The Boss's position, booya that would have been a poignant ending, "this is good, isn't it"?

I definitely feel like you could do at least one last game with Metal Gear but I'd only want to be done by Kojima, if that can't then it is best to just Let It Be.

In the case of Silent Hill you can and I do, look at 3 as a finale, but there was still such a mysteriousness to Silent Hill as a whole that was never explained and little plot threads like the Little Baroness ship mentioned in 2 (no, the arcade game does NOT count) that it definitely feels like Team Silent wanted to tell more stories, but they got Konami'd, same with Kojima.

It's just something I've noticed with a lot of Japanese media, you're usually left in some way hanging, wondering what became of that world or it's characters.

You are not playing as Big Boss in MGS 5 tho. You are playing as Venom Snake in MGS 5. This then explains how Big Boss became so famous.

He was legit in two places at once doing missions. With Venom in one place. Him in the other. It also explains how he gained power so fast.

Venom then dies in Outer Haven in MG 1. Big Boss "dies" in MG 2 in Zanzibar Land. Both beaten by Solid Snake.

In other words, MGS 5 was just Kojima's way of explaining away how Big Boss "survived" MG 1.

Naked Snake also truly becomes Big Boss in Peace Walker. That is where he becomes the "villain" we know in MG1 and 2.

There really is no more to tell after that.

Big Bosses story was finished with 4. He came to understand the Bosses will and let go of his hatred for Zero and his clones.

He came full circle there. As did Solid Snake. It began with them and it ended with them.

"This world would be better off without snakes" - Big Boss

I do get how people wanted a MG2 remake. Would of been cool.

 

[Secret Asshole]

You are not playing as Big Boss in MGS 5 tho. You are playing as Venom Snake in MGS 5. This then explains how Big Boss became so famous.

He was legit in two places at once doing missions. With Venom in one place. Him in the other. It also explains how he gained power so fast.

Venom then dies in Outer Haven in MG 1. Big Boss "dies" in MG 2 in Zanzibar Land. Both beaten by Solid Snake.

In other words, MGS 5 was just Kojima's way of explaining away how Big Boss "survived" MG 1.

Naked Snake also truly becomes Big Boss in Peace Walker. That is where he becomes the "villain" we know in MG1 and 2.

There really is no more to tell after that.

Big Bosses story was finished with 4. He came to understand the Bosses will and let go of his hatred for Zero and his clones.

He came full circle there. As did Solid Snake. It began with them and it ended with them.

"This world would be better off without snakes" - Big Boss

I do get how people wanted a MG2 remake. Would of been cool.

Well, it was also a farewell, like 'You are all Big Bosses in my eyes', which is why I assumed he made it like he did. That and Kojima likes to fuck with people too. Shame he wasn't allowed to finish 5 properly.

I’ve said this before, but it’s not a problem with Japanese culture, it’s a problem with weekly/monthly serialized storytelling. Hell, with serialized storytelling in general.

With a story that’s being released weekly or monthly in small chunks, immediate excitement and payoff is incentivized over building an overarching narrative, and having an interesting concept that immediately hooks the reader and keeps them hooked chapter to chapter is by far the MOST important thing to do. It’s possible to do this and ALSO build an overarching narrative, but that requires the ability to make a plan and be able to adapt it on the fly as the situation inevitably changes, OR the latent talent of being able to retcon/incorporate new plot points without hurting the integrity of your story.

The other issue is that by its very nature, a long, monthly-serialized story like Attack on Titan is written in chapter-sized portions over the course of nearly a decade. That’s a long-ass time - people change, your vision for what the story was supposed to be is going to change as well. So, you either stick to your original vision and risk writing a story you’re no longer passionate about, or you sacrifice the overall thematic/tonal cohesion and write what you want to write. There’s no winning here.

I for one am enjoying the recent trend of Shonen manga getting much shorter and having a more-or-less cohesive overarching plan, and just.... ending when it’s supposed to instead of dragging on interminably well past its sell-by date.

Its a problem about planning. There isn't planning. Isayama had plotted some stuff out early, but it was painfully obvious he didn't know what was in the basement and delayed the ever-living fuck out of finding it with massive filler. He got seemingly bored with the horror and then went nationalistic WWII and then hopped all around with no planning. I mean, all series and shows end with some sort of teaser. You don't have to, but you can construct your story in such a way that is how it is broken up.

There was no long-term plan, so it was all over the place. If you look at the very beginning of serials (Star Trek: TNG and the X-Files are the two starters for serials), both had elements that were all over the place. There was no definite 'end-point' because the age of serials had just started and you didn't know if your viewers would be back next week. Without a plan it de-evolves into this soupy fucking mess.

It is quite clear that Isayama picked up tones and ideas and dropped them quickly, depending on what caught his eye at the time. Horror definitely bored the fuck out of him, you could hardly call this horror anymore, which is a shame. The problem is he switches what the story is constantly, its a completely schizophrenic direction. I mean, I can tell this wasn't plotted out. He even says he never plotted it out.

You can never sacrifice tonal and thematic cohesion. You can get away with doing it once, but any more than that it results in a mess. Isayama wrote what he wanted and it turned out to change itself more times than not. At first it was a horror story, then it was a war story, then it was Game of Thrones, then it was 'The Avengers' for a little bit, then it throws in science fiction elements with time travel that are never fleshed out...I mean, you can't write what you want to write and change your theme every two seconds. Nobody cared about this because it was primarily being driven by the anime now and the anime JUST caught up to outside the walls part.

I can buy Isayama got bored. I mean, that's fucking blindingly obvious. Maybe he had editors who wanted a certain amount of chapters. Who knows. But there's all sorts of shit you can do. You can write side stories to fill the gaps and do what you want to get away from the main story. You can right filler or backstory chapters so you can also do them differently. There are ways to unclog the pipe from a long work, but Isayama just seemed to do whatever he felt that particular day. You DON'T need a cliff hanger every chapter. That's just the way he writes.

Not to mention he had massive amounts of creative control on the anime. So its likely he had plenty of leeway. Looking at the fever fucking dream of 138, I still laugh my ass off as Reiner goes "NOT ON MY WATCH" to a prehistoric worm, Kaiju wrestling it as basically the entire main cast and the rest of scout squad get Titanized and offed, being utterly useless. Its pretty funny. So its not like you can argue this man was limited in his 'vision'.

 

[Dom Cruise]

You are not playing as Big Boss in MGS 5 tho. You are playing as Venom Snake in MGS 5. This then explains how Big Boss became so famous.

He was legit in two places at once doing missions. With Venom in one place. Him in the other. It also explains how he gained power so fast.

Venom then dies in Outer Haven in MG 1. Big Boss "dies" in MG 2 in Zanzibar Land. Both beaten by Solid Snake.

In other words, MGS 5 was just Kojima's way of explaining away how Big Boss "survived" MG 1.

Naked Snake also truly becomes Big Boss in Peace Walker. That is where he becomes the "villain" we know in MG1 and 2.

There really is no more to tell after that.

Big Bosses story was finished with 4. He came to understand the Bosses will and let go of his hatred for Zero and his clones.

He came full circle there. As did Solid Snake. It began with them and it ended with them.

"This world would be better off without snakes" - Big Boss

I do get how people wanted a MG2 remake. Would of been cool.

It's precisely because we never actually play as Big Boss in 5 is why I feel there's room for one last game where we play as Big Boss for real and it shows his founding of Outer Heaven and then maybe flashes forward to the fight in Zanzibar Land at the end.

But it's probably never going to happen and I guess what we got is good enough, it's just a shame Phantom Pain is so messy and literally unfinished.

 

[KEKMUHLORD]

Its a problem about planning. There isn't planning. Isayama had plotted some stuff out early, but it was painfully obvious he didn't know what was in the basement and delayed the ever-living fuck out of finding it with massive filler. He got seemingly bored with the horror and then went nationalistic WWII and then hopped all around with no planning. I mean, all series and shows end with some sort of teaser. You don't have to, but you can construct your story in such a way that is how it is broken up.

There was no long-term plan, so it was all over the place. If you look at the very beginning of serials (Star Trek: TNG and the X-Files are the two starters for serials), both had elements that were all over the place. There was no definite 'end-point' because the age of serials had just started and you didn't know if your viewers would be back next week. Without a plan it de-evolves into this soupy fucking mess.

It is quite clear that Isayama picked up tones and ideas and dropped them quickly, depending on what caught his eye at the time. Horror definitely bored the fuck out of him, you could hardly call this horror anymore, which is a shame. The problem is he switches what the story is constantly, its a completely schizophrenic direction. I mean, I can tell this wasn't plotted out. He even says he never plotted it out.

You can never sacrifice tonal and thematic cohesion. You can get away with doing it once, but any more than that it results in a mess. Isayama wrote what he wanted and it turned out to change itself more times than not. At first it was a horror story, then it was a war story, then it was Game of Thrones, then it was 'The Avengers' for a little bit, then it throws in science fiction elements with time travel that are never fleshed out...I mean, you can't write what you want to write and change your theme every two seconds. Nobody cared about this because it was primarily being driven by the anime now and the anime JUST caught up to outside the walls part.

I can buy Isayama got bored. I mean, that's fucking blindingly obvious. Maybe he had editors who wanted a certain amount of chapters. Who knows. But there's all sorts of shit you can do. You can write side stories to fill the gaps and do what you want to get away from the main story. You can right filler or backstory chapters so you can also do them differently. There are ways to unclog the pipe from a long work, but Isayama just seemed to do whatever he felt that particular day. You DON'T need a cliff hanger every chapter. That's just the way he writes.

Not to mention he had massive amounts of creative control on the anime. So its likely he had plenty of leeway. Looking at the fever fucking dream of 138, I still laugh my ass off as Reiner goes "NOT ON MY WATCH" to a prehistoric worm, Kaiju wrestling it as basically the entire main cast and the rest of scout squad get Titanized and offed, being utterly useless. Its pretty funny. So its not like you can argue this man was limited in his 'vision'.

I agree with all of this.

I also think Isayama could be burned out and done with AOT completly. Hence his long breaks.

Like with Tokyo Ghoul RE Manga and how the author just gave it a sudden happy ending he liked and thought the fans would like in it's final arc and then wrote this:

Granted, I do not think he is as dedicated as Ishida Sui was. Ishida never took breaks.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

I agree with all of this.

I also think Isayama could be burned out and done with AOT completly. Hence his long breaks.

Like with Tokyo Ghoul RE Manga and how the author just gave it a sudden happy ending he liked and thought the fans would like in it's final arc and then wrote this:

View attachment 2063006

Granted, I do not think he is as dedicated as Ishida Sui was. Ishida never took breaks.

Damn, and Ishida is actually a really nice guy. I can only imagine how someone as bitter, and angry as Isayama has taken it, and with a much more popular series.

Fuck it, I don't need to, because he's already shown us.

 

[KEKMUHLORD]

Damn, and Ishida is actually a really nice guy. I can only imagine how someone as bitter, and angry as Isayama has taken it, and with a much more popular series.

Fuck it, I don't need to, because he's already shown us.

Hahaha, I agree.

It is also why Tokyo Ghoul will always be a favorite manga of mine. Ishida really did care about it and the fans and it showed in his writing.

He also wrote and addressed that letter to the fans cause he felt bad for rushing the last arc. Which still had an alright ending.

Isayama on the otherhand.....Well, you summarized it perfectly.

 

[The Great Chandler]

I treat AOT just like i treat jojo, aka retarded but fun jouney due to the author changing his mind every singoe week
Honestly i cant wait for the end of this trainwreck and the reaction, just like with evafags

At least you care about what happens to the characters in JoJo.

 

[Permuto]

The ending is the generic everyone lives and is saved by erens sacrifice. I feel numb like I wasted a part of my life watching and reading this shit. It's like the naruto/game of thrones ending combined.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The ending is the generic everyone lives and is saved by erens sacrifice. I feel numb like I wasted a part of my life watching and reading this shit. It's like the naruto/game of thrones ending combined.

It was leaked early?

 

[The Fair Lady]

These are apparently the spoilers:

Spoiler

So yeah, lame happy ending shit. And Eren is reincarnated as a bird I guess.

 

[bigoogabaloogas]

These are apparently the spoilers:

Spoiler

View attachment 2063887
View attachment 2063888
View attachment 2063890
So yeah, lame happy ending shit. And Eren is reincarnated as a bird I guess.

holy fuck all those blood and tears were wasted for nothing?

 

[Shield Breaker]

These are apparently the spoilers:

Spoiler

View attachment 2063887
View attachment 2063888
View attachment 2063890
So yeah, lame happy ending shit. And Eren is reincarnated as a bird I guess.

How does that make any sense?

 

[Gensou Hadou]

These are apparently the spoilers:

Spoiler

View attachment 2063887
View attachment 2063888
View attachment 2063890
So yeah, lame happy ending shit. And Eren is reincarnated as a bird I guess.

So, did anyone predict that Eren would be stopped by Armin punching him out? And when are we going to get One Punch Man jokes?

 

[Doctor of Autism]

These are apparently the spoilers:

Spoiler

View attachment 2063887
View attachment 2063888
View attachment 2063890
So yeah, lame happy ending shit. And Eren is reincarnated as a bird I guess.

Wait if these leaks are true then

ERENFAGS BTFO

REINERCHADS WIN AGAIN

in all seriousness this ending was pretty predictable if true, glad Isayama didn’t try to make things unpredictable for the sake of outsmarting the audience for the final chapter since it’s clear he wants to leave the audience with a hopeful note (again if these leaks are true), so he can open up his spa.

 

[Secret Asshole]

How does that make any sense?

It isn't supposed to. There are massive plot holes, like the world just entirely forgets they have racist brain parasites or some shit.

Wait if these leaks are true then

ERENFAGS BTFO

REINERCHADS WIN AGAIN

in all seriousness this ending was pretty predictable if true, glad Isayama didn’t try to make things unpredictable for the sake of outsmarting the audience for the final chapter since it’s clear he wants to leave the audience with a hopeful note (again if these leaks are true), so he can open up his spa.

Its such a terrible, boring ending. No he left it with a billion holes and went pure lame bullshit because he obviously doesn't give a fuck about the manga at this point. Such a waste and wasted potential. Generic was the worst way to go. So I guess it goes out shitting itself with no dignity.

Remember the innocent days of the time loop theory? And now we ended up like this? Fucking lol.

 

[Quiet Guy]

These are apparently the spoilers:

Spoiler

View attachment 2063887
View attachment 2063888
View attachment 2063890
So yeah, lame happy ending shit. And Eren is reincarnated as a bird I guess.

Pics or it didn't happen. Not to mention this doesn't seem to address Worm-kun. Besides it's obvious what will happen:

It's revealed that Armin was a Dark Lord who was trying to manipulate Eren, so he could dominate the world, but lost control over him and is desperately trying to stop the Rumbling, to prevent Eren from destroying his would-be Empire.

Ymir is moved by the sight of Mikasa's love, and grants titan powers to another lover: Jean. Jean becomes the Suite Vest titan which can grant additional powers to other shifters through the power of love. Jean powers up Falco, which enables him to summon birds, which carry Worm-kun off into the sunset.

Meanwhile part of the flock of birds heads towards Eren. It's Donald Trump riding on the flock. He sensed the destruction of the walls he commissioned King Fritz to build and has come to punish Eren for daring to desecrate his glorious monuments. Trump pierces through the titan like a bullet and curb stomps Eren's head. He does pro wrestling moves on Eren's body, where his consciousness has been moved to bringing him to the brink of death.

In this near-death state, Eren sees members of the Survey Corp. in the Paths. Eren sees Erwin. Eren notes he is still missing an arm, but Erwin assures him that it's only a flesh wound and will grow back with the power of the Paths. The Survey Corp. then break Armin's influence over Eren and stop the Rumbling.

Satisfied, Trump bursts out of the titan, and shouts, "You have to go back." The wall titans obey, as Trump has power of all things walls. He then ensures peace for Padis by threatening to build a wall around any country who dares attack and reminds them that King Fritz being a tyrant was, "Fake news."

The cast returns to Paradis. The walls have reformed. Mikasa notes that they are 10 feet taller. Eren takes Historia's baby, walks off, and stares at the sunset. "You are free," he whispers.

The end.

By the way, the Eldian Empire ended 100 years ago, not 200, as some of you have been saying.

 

[KEKMUHLORD]

It isn't supposed to. There are massive plot holes, like the world just entirely forgets they have racist brain parasites or some shit.

Its such a terrible, boring ending. No he left it with a billion holes and went pure lame bullshit because he obviously doesn't give a fuck about the manga at this point. Such a waste and wasted potential. Generic was the worst way to go. So I guess it goes out shitting itself with no dignity.

Remember the innocent days of the time loop theory? And now we ended up like this? Fucking lol.

God, do I miss the time loop theory days. I was actually excited for the upcoming chapters and reveals in those days cause it was a great theory from the community.

Like you said, it is apparent Isayama stopped caring about the story, characters and world and it showed/shows.

Also, fuck Eren. It is incredible how much I came to dislike him as a protagonist.