Babylon 5 - A underrated sci-fi show.

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Don't care, seeing that creature for any span of time at all almost made me lose my lunch...
Try to understand that most people aren't as racist as you are.
On the other hand, this mother fucker has only spoken 15 lines of dialogue so far and I already like him. OPEN MY WRISTS!
Itsa Wario Time!.png
Based Hungarian monarch.
 
I didn't see that there was a thread here before. I watched through the end of season 4 earlier this year, I would have liked discussing it here as I watched.

I'm sure people are sick of talking about DS9 here but I did go into watching it as a big fan of DS9 who always heard that it was like DS9 but planned out way better (not saying much since DS9's overarching plot threads were apparently completely made up along the way.) I did like the show overall but I had some issues with it. I have a lot of good stuff to say too but in the interest of keeping the post from being too autistically long I'll just focus on my problems with it.

The biggest problem I had with the show was the lack of compelling villains. Basically the only one I liked (besides, arguably, Londo) was Bester. Bester was a great villain because he's incredibly hateable, but also still comes off like a real person with understandable and sane motives. He's a human supremacist and a TP supremacist on top of that, and it's woven into the character in a way that's compelling without being neccesarily sympathetic. It's also somewhat subtle, and we're not introduced to Bester by him talking about how much he hates aliens and normals. Him and Londo are both very well done as authoritarian, basically fascist characters, and they explore the idea in different directions. Which makes it all the more striking and disappointing that almost every other major villain is basically a cartoon. I felt this manifest the most in the minor guest star villains. Almost all of the ones I can remember were portrayed as cookie cutter racists whose mindset starts and ends at "fuck those spaceniggers." Having a few characters like this is fine, as people of this sort really exist, but it was almost every time.

Just off the top of my head there was the Minbari War vet that loved dismemberment, the blond nightwatch guy who kept telling Zack how much he loved being a jackbooted cop, Ivanova's slimy exboyfriend from early on, the racist terminator from the first season that Sinclair talks to death, like two different guys who interrogated Sinclair believing him to be compromised by the Minbari, and some of the more droll warrior caste dudes (Neroon was cool though.) They even pulled out this storebought nazi character again in the very last episode of season 4, who also gets essentially talked to death by hologram Garibaldi in a scene that felt almost like a Futurama gag. Some were worse than others but it annoyed me almost every time

The other major villains were also not very inspiring. Clark is never developed at all and we never really learn if he had any motives whatsoever besides raw desire for power. I would assume not since he had a deadman's switch that would destroy Earth. Him being a cipher is clearly intentional and supposed to show how figureheads in repressive societies are basically interchangable and it's the compliance and attitudes of the people who perpetuate it that are the problem. This is fine but he's not surrounded by or related to any compelling characters either, so the entire Earth Regime is just a cardboard cutout that eventually gets cut down to basically everyone's relief.

The buildup for the Shadows and the Shadow War is great, but the payoff left a lot to be desired. We also see the Vorlons start to become a nefarious faction, which isn't totally unexpected and kind of satisfying in an "oh shit" kind of way, but at the end both sides who intially were built up as mysterious and inscrutable powers who were beyond comprehension boil down to an EXPLICIT "I like law" and "I like chaos" conflict. Then Sheridan alongside Gandalf just tells them that they're acting like retards and they're like "yeah, you know, you're pretty much right" and fuck off. I realize that they had A LOT of ground to cover in one season with Season 4, since they thought it was the last one they were going to get, but I still felt like the whole Shadow War ended up being kind of nothing. I also didn't get a lot out of Mr. Morden. I liked his acting and he had a great "menacing and slimy car salesman" vibe to him, but again just not much motivation from him. Perhaps I misunderstood but I was under the impression that he was not subjected to the brain implant control device, and willingly followed the Shadows. That being the case, I still don't know why he was so attached to them. He ostensibly offered to serve them because there really wasn't an alternative, but he gets really into it and I'm not sure why. When Londo blows up the Shadow Ship he acts genuinely mad like it was his people being killed or something. What were the Shadows even offering him? Maybe I'm a retard, but I never understood his motives. Briefly, Kosh 2 was also an example of just a violent and evil character who is nothing more than an obstacle to overcome. An unfortunate missed opportunity to explore a different Vorlon character from Kosh.

Bester and the Psi Corps as a whole were really cool. They were far and away the best villains in the show and I would have been fine with them being behind the entire coup on Earth and basically the only main antagonists. It would have been kind of obvious and it was neat that the expectation that they were behind all of the shit on Earth was subverted, but I honestly would have preferred it just so they get expanded on even more. I liked the conflict they built up with the rich dude who was cucking Garibaldi too, he actulaly wasn't a bad villain either and you could sympathize with his actions because we know how threatening the Psi Corps really is.

I was kinda done with it after S4, and I've heard S5 isn't amazing, but I'll probably get around to watching it at some point. Personally, despite the novelty of B5s generally solid grasp of continuity, I can't help but feel if there had been more time for the show to breathe and have some more unconnected episodes early on before launching right into the epic stuff it would have made me enjoy it better. Again, still solid overall.
 
I was kinda done with it after S4, and I've heard S5 isn't amazing, but I'll probably get around to watching it at some point. Personally, despite the novelty of B5s generally solid grasp of continuity, I can't help but feel if there had been more time for the show to breathe and have some more unconnected episodes early on before launching right into the epic stuff it would have made me enjoy it better. Again, still solid overall.
I recently finished the show myself, I thought the first 4 seasons were solid. I imagine losing their lead actor after season 1 must have caused issues with the pacing of the rest.

My big problem with the show was season 5. I'm confused as to why it was made. Everything had been wrapped up neatly at the end of season 4 and it felt very tacked on without really adding anything. Losing Ivanova was also a blow, I had come to enjoy her character a lot and her replacement wasn't nearly as good.
It wasn't all bad though, I think the characters carried an otherwise mixed season, seeing G'kar and Londo play off each other was especially fun. Still, it wasn't a bad season, just very odd.
 
It wasn't all bad though, I think the characters carried an otherwise mixed season, seeing G'kar and Londo play off each other was especially fun. Still, it wasn't a bad season, just very odd.
I could see myself watching it just for that. Those two are far and away the best characters in the show as far as I'm concerned. I never really warmed up to Ivanova. I didn't dislike her character, but I liked Marcus better and was a little disappointed that he was killed off instead of her. Especially knowing that she doesn't even show up in S5 anyway.
 
I recently finished the show myself, I thought the first 4 seasons were solid. I imagine losing their lead actor after season 1 must have caused issues with the pacing of the rest.

My big problem with the show was season 5. I'm confused as to why it was made. Everything had been wrapped up neatly at the end of season 4 and it felt very tacked on without really adding anything. Losing Ivanova was also a blow, I had come to enjoy her character a lot and her replacement wasn't nearly as good.
It wasn't all bad though, I think the characters carried an otherwise mixed season, seeing G'kar and Londo play off each other was especially fun. Still, it wasn't a bad season, just very odd.
I found the fifth season annoying because it basically expected you to read the books in order to resolve some of the mysteries, like what happened with that vase and the kid and the Centauri Ambassador's neck thing.
 
The network airing Babylon 5 was happening to be going tits up at the same time. So JMS had to truncated most of the story arcs that were to take place in seasons 4 and 5 into season 4. The fifth season and Crusade happened when TNT network had picked up the B5 license.

As for losing characters, JMS had "trapdoors" for everyone so whatever reason the actors had to temporarily or permanently dropped out of the series it wouldn't fucked the show. Actor for Londo's assistant Vir had to temporarily leave cause his doctor(s) gave him the ultimatum of either lose the weight or lose the legs. And so he left to lose the weight and when he came back in show his absence was chalked up to being assigned to Minbar.
 
As for losing characters, JMS had "trapdoors" for everyone so whatever reason the actors had to temporarily or permanently dropped out of the series it wouldn't fucked the show.
What the fuck happened with Talia's actress, by the way? I did some searching online but couldn't find anything. Her whole arc ended very suddenly, I felt. And then she was barely mentioned and never shown again. Definitely felt like she quit, to me.
 
What the fuck happened with Talia's actress, by the way? I did some searching online but couldn't find anything. Her whole arc ended very suddenly, I felt. And then she was barely mentioned and never shown again. Definitely felt like she quit, to me.
She left B5 to be a news anchor. Her arc ended with her being converted (not shown when) to Psycorp. A remaining loose plot thread is with her and Jason Lionheart.
 
Babylon 5 was one of those space opera shows my parents were huge fans of back in the 2000's. Being very young at the time, I didn't comprehend what bits and pieces I was watching. But then I watch the entire series at the age of 15 back in 2012.

Everything not only made sense, but I felt that it aged like fine wine. Here's one that won't be irrelevant for a long time: Compare the scene where the Nightwatch are introduced with this tweet.
 
I don't think Londo is a fascist. He just is an aristocrat.

Him and G'Kar are basically a mohamedan freedom fighter vs a colonial state's baron.

Londo is a an aristocrat turned bureaucratic pen pusher mourning the permanent decline of his once great empire to an imperial remnant of itself serving little more than as a tourist trap for the younger races. As he explained in either the pilot movie or in one of the first season one episodes. Furthermore later Mr Morden nailed the descriptions for Londo and G'Kar when he was explaining to his "associates" why G'Kar was not suitable. While Londo was the perfect puppet candidate due to how they answered his "what do you want" question. Doesn't seem to be any YT video of those conversations. But here's the videos of G'Kar and Londo answering that question.
The commenters in the comment sections done a much better job explaining this.
 
Where was this mentioned? It seems like a convenient way to explain what happened to Talia and her "gift" from Ironheart.
I think its in Season 3? It's the next time Bester shows up on the station, might be true, or it might just be Bester fucking with the crew for fun. He says they found 'interesting things' so it sounds like he knew about the Ironheart stuff.
 
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I found the fifth season annoying because it basically expected you to read the books in order to resolve some of the mysteries, like what happened with that vase and the kid and the Centauri Ambassador's neck thing.
Was that really a mystery? The flash forward to Emperor Vir shows the Drakh have been defeated and it the keeper intended for David was probably neutralized.
 
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