Babylon 5 - A underrated sci-fi show.

[DavidS877]

>CW
Put a PPG to my head and just end me

If it was the old CW it would have at least guaranteed super-hot actors and actresses. Sadly they've gone Woke(tm) so it's almost certain to be the usual woke shit.

 

[Snigger]

Can we collectively agree Narns are fucking obnoxious until the tail end of season 2?

I watched through this show for the first time a few years ago, and still come back to it every now and then, it's a real solid show. My favorite character seemed to change from one to another as the series went on, as each character was deliberately written to be somewhat off-putting for a time, G'Kar was probably longest on that list, having an excellent arc throughout the series, and an excellent actor playing him. The only character I never liked was Franklin, who was written with a ST:TNG Season 1 Starfleet officer level of smug and moral superiority. Was sad to see Sinclair go, was sadder to learn WHY the actor had to leave the show. JMS got a few of his social justice themes in there, but they weren't the overt shit you see these days, they seem to play into the plot of the show.

Jesus fucking christ

 

[UnKillFill]

Can we collectively agree Narns are fucking obnoxious until the tail end of season 2?

Ok, yeah kind of... but they were always supposed to be. From the first episode even, the Narn were literally set up to to be the big bad of the show. The fact that they didn't actually stay that way (and that was also 100% planned from the beginning) was one of the few rare times that "subverting expectations" actually worked out positively.

 

[Oats12345]

Delayed, but still rumored to happen.

https://www.engadget.com/babylon-5-reboot-cw-still-alive-103501531.html

Please let it die like the Powerpuff girls live action show.

Seriously MJS I knew you had TDS but I didn't think it would cause you to become retarded.

 

[Uranus Pink]

U

Please let it die like the Powerpuff girls live action show.

Seriously MJS I knew you had TDS but I didn't think it would cause you to become retarded.

Unfortunately his retardation kicked in during the Bush administration.

 

[Oats12345]

U

Unfortunately his retardation kicked in during the Bush administration.

Oh he had BDS has too?

Actually question how did he show his BDS considering at the time there was no twitter. In his work?

 

[Uranus Pink]

Oh he had BDS has too?

I don't know if he did, all I know is he willingly written Spider-Man's "One More Day" story arc instead of telling Joe Quesadilla to GFY during that time frame.

 

[Oats12345]

I don't know if he did, all I know is he willingly written Spider-Man's "One More Day" story arc instead of telling Joe Quesadilla to GFY during that time frame.

Wait he was apart of that shitty story. Good lord he fell form grace longer than I thought.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Wait he was apart of that shitty story. Good lord he fell form grace longer than I thought.

Yes he was a big part of it.

 

[Snigger]

I get the feeling that they were friends, obviously they were on opposing sides of a vitriolic conflict, but I always got the sense that they understood the position each other was in. They both knew they were cogs in a larger machine and I don't think they truly hated each other, but rather what they represented.

 

[DuranceVile]

Ok, yeah kind of... but they were always supposed to be. From the first episode even, the Narn were literally set up to to be the big bad of the show. The fact that they didn't actually stay that way (and that was also 100% planned from the beginning) was one of the few rare times that "subverting expectations" actually worked out positively.

Realizing G'Kar wasn't just a mustache twirling villain was one of my first moments when I realized this series was going to be something special. I really love how the series develops his and Londo's rivalry and eventual admiration for each other.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

View attachment 2966354
I get the feeling that they were friends, obviously they were on opposing sides of a vitriolic conflict, but I always got the sense that they understood the position each other was in. They both knew they were cogs in a larger machine and I don't think they truly hated each other, but rather what they represented.

By the end, yes.

Throughout the majority of the seasons oh good grief no. The two of them absolutely made it personal in multiple ways on multiple occasions and it went well past the comical shit like G'kar nailing one of Londo's wives or Londo attempting to thwart G'kar's ability to observe his religion. Which actually makes the fact that they get past it all the more enjoyable as a plotline.

 

[Oats12345]

By the end, yes.

Throughout the majority of the seasons oh good grief no. The two of them absolutely made it personal in multiple ways on multiple occasions and it went well past the comical shit like G'kar nailing one of Londo's wives or Londo attempting to thwart G'kar's ability to observe his religion. Which actually makes the fact that they get past it all the more enjoyable as a plotline.

Their characters took interesting journeys when you think about it. G'kar started out as a villain than later grew into something so much more by the end of it. Londo's journey started out some what what good than grew to be a villain himself (where G'kar meanwhile was going on his journey and became less of a villain) and eventually redeem himself. But still had guilt and in the very end he becomes Emperor all alone and was secretly being controlled. Really Londo has to be the most tragic characters on TV

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Their characters took interesting journeys when you think about it. G'kar started out as a villain than later grew into something so much more by the end of it. Londo's journey started out some what what good than grew to ne a villain himself (where G'kar meanwhile was going on his journey and became less of a villain) and eventually redeem himself. But still had guilt and in the very end he becomes Emperor all alone and was secretly being controlled. Really Londo has to be the most tragic characters on TV

There's a lot of interesting things about the pair.

G'kar's villainy, while seemingly more cartoonish at the start of the series ,was still rooted in something possible to empathise with. The Centauri had invaded and taken over their planets, the Naarn offensive against what they considered to be their land occupied by invaders while not following most rules of engagement by the setting standards was in his mind at least justified. They were not, throughout the early stages of the conflict at least, invading lands but reclaiming their original territory. He was a character with a strong personal code but that code changed over time and he viewed actions as unacceptable or not depending upon what his attitude was at that time.

Londo's situation was more that of an aged politician who remembers the tales of glory from his youth of when the Empire was at its high and is now living through a very slow fall from glory. He wished for a return to the better days and interestingly while willing to profit from it throughout most of the series was not obsessed with his personal gain. As you say he became Emperor but while always happy to benefit from the work he did his intent was still for the glory of the Centauri Republic. He tended to play a better bastard than he really was as seen with the runaway youths fleeing arranged marriages.

G'kar was a fanatic, Londo a romantic. Both wished for better things for their respective cultures and felt that they were failed by the rest of the universe on various occasions. While individuals like the various Babylon 5 staff might aid them when it came time to seek aid from outside their own societies at desperate moments they were often failed. Which in turn pushed them towards more extreme actions.

The two were the faces of one of the major conflicts of the show's run and as such tended to be fairly nuanced in their depiction since making either a simple character reduced that side of the conflict to something simple too. They were a lot more interesting than the Mimbari for me since they and through them their species felt more rooted and less "but the prophecy says!"

TLDR: Bet it won't be that complicated in the reboot!

 

[Oats12345]

There's a lot of interesting things about the pair.

G'kar's villainy, while seemingly more cartoonish at the start of the series ,was still rooted in something possible to empathise with. The Centauri had invaded and taken over their planets, the Naarn offensive against what they considered to be their land occupied by invaders while not following most rules of engagement by the setting standards was in his mind at least justified. They were not, throughout the early stages of the conflict at least, invading lands but reclaiming their original territory. He was a character with a strong personal code but that code changed over time and he viewed actions as unacceptable or not depending upon what his attitude was at that time.

Londo's situation was more that of an aged politician who remembers the tales of glory from his youth of when the Empire was at its high and is now living through a very slow fall from glory. He wished for a return to the better days and interestingly while willing to profit from it throughout most of the series was not obsessed with his personal gain. As you say he became Emperor but while always happy to benefit from the work he did his intent was still for the glory of the Centauri Republic. He tended to play a better bastard than he really was as seen with the runaway youths fleeing arranged marriages.

G'kar was a fanatic, Londo a romantic. Both wished for better things for their respective cultures and felt that they were failed by the rest of the universe on various occasions. While individuals like the various Babylon 5 staff might aid them when it came time to seek aid from outside their own societies at desperate moments they were often failed. Which in turn pushed them towards more extreme actions.

The two were the faces of one of the major conflicts of the show's run and as such tended to be fairly nuanced in their depiction since making either a simple character reduced that side of the conflict to something simple too. They were a lot more interesting than the Mimbari for me since they and through them their species felt more rooted and less "but the prophecy says!"

TLDR: Bet it won't be that complicated in the reboot!

What you said makes me sad now becuase thinking how the reboot will dumb things down that were so complicated and complex in the orginal. After hearing about the new Walker I have no faith in the Babylon 5 reboot.

But one thing I will add about Londo's story is that even when he betrays the shadows and generally trieds to better himself. His past sins come back to haunt him when one of the shadows minon races decided to go to Centauri because Londo and others like Refa and Cartagia had made deals with the shadows so they figure to go there (at least I belive that part was implied). Even after betraying the shadows and Mordon. Something related to that deal still ended up biting him in the ass even when he tried to make it up. It's also good to remmber Londo also had some involvement with helping a mad man like Cartagia becoming emperor. Since Refa said that "he had the same views as them" earlier in the show.

Seriously the reboot is clearly not going to be as good.


Also another thing I liked about Babylon 5 was that President Clarke wasn't really showen much despite being a major villain. That's clearly going to be gone in the reboot and will probably be a generic Trump stand in.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

But one thing I will add about Londo's story is that even when he betrays the shadows and generally trieds to better himself. His past sins come back to haunt him when one of the shadows minon races decided to go to Centauri because Londo and others like Refa and Cartagia had made deals with the shadows so they figure to go there (at least I belive that part was implied). Even after betraying the shadows and Mordon. Something related to that deal still ended up biting him in the ass even when he tried to make it up. It's also good to remmber Londo also had some involvement with helping a mad man like Cartagia becoming emperor. Since Refa said that "he had the same views as them" earlier in the show.

Londo was a cog in the schemes of others and he only usually realised that quite late. Be it the Shadows, the politics of other Centauri or even that his revenge on the Shadows would result in ticking off others in the future he tended to not see past the immediate results of his actions to the fallout. You could fairly say he had a rather short sighted approach in most of his actions

Also another thing I liked about Babylon 5 was that President Clarke wasn't really showen much despite being a major villain. That's clearly going to be gone in the reboot and will probably be a generic Trump stand in.

I'm half expecting them to go a step further and make the Centauri a Russia standin.

 

[Snigger]

Londo was a cog in the schemes of others and he only usually realised that quite late. Be it the Shadows, the politics of other Centauri or even that his revenge on the Shadows would result in ticking off others in the future he tended to not see past the immediate results of his actions to the fallout. You could fairly say he had a rather short sighted approach in most of his actions

I'm half expecting them to go a step further and make the Centauri a Russia standin.

Modern political commentary is a cyanide pill for any franchise

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

Modern political commentary is a cyanide pill for any franchise

Space Force, while not being a ground breaking show, kind of nailed the right way of doing it. It's easy to see their president as Trump but it's also easy to see them as anyone who dicks around on social media and gets into pissing contests with other countries. Which I cannot see going away anytime soon.

Supergirl was the other end of the scale where they were whining about the wall in Mexico but made the president some idealised version of Hilary. So they made their dream president but made them do the stuff Trump did because they wanted to have their cake and complain about it too.

 

[Oats12345]

Space Force, while not being a ground breaking show, kind of nailed the right way of doing it. It's easy to see their president as Trump but it's also easy to see them as anyone who dicks around on social media and gets into pissing contests with other countries. Which I cannot see going away anytime soon.

Supergirl was the other end of the scale where they were whining about the wall in Mexico but made the president some idealised version of Hilary. So they made their dream president but made them do the stuff Trump did because they wanted to have their cake and complain about it too.

I loved how Supergirl somehow ignored their own continuity just to shit on Orange Man.

 

[DavidS877]

Space Force, while not being a ground breaking show, kind of nailed the right way of doing it. It's easy to see their president as Trump but it's also easy to see them as anyone who dicks around on social media and gets into pissing contests with other countries. Which I cannot see going away anytime soon.

Supergirl was the other end of the scale where they were whining about the wall in Mexico but made the president some idealised version of Hilary. So they made their dream president but made them do the stuff Trump did because they wanted to have their cake and complain about it too.

Supergirl: Guns Bad, Trans Good.