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Oh god they are going to dig up their bodies to play against Logan Paul in his Baseball debut.
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Clyde Cash's Left Teste
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The mythology around Shoeless Joe is that he was the one player that actually didn't cheat if I call correctly.
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I'm so glad Charlie Hustle got unbanned. Let's hope he goes in the HoF he deserves it.
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- Mar 21, 2023
There's lots of layers to the Pete Rose saga.
First off, he got the kiss of death from Trump. Baseball these days is incredibly pozzed, especially the baseball writers, but also a lot of the owners and the officials.
Trump’s support alone probably costs Rose much support & many votes.
Then there’s the intrigue that the commissioner that banned him, Bart Giamatti (actor Paul Giamatti's father) died suddenly in office a week after banning Rose.
So it sort ot became a thing that none of his successors wanted to touch the issue because the OG commissioner's plan or road to redemption never happened.
It's going to be a tall order for Rose to get 75% of the vote on a closed-door committee full of baseball nepotism apparatchiks.
Rose certainly has the stats to get in, but so much of the Hall of Fame selection process has become whether the baseball world likes you or not.
Curt Schilling missed election a few years back simply because he's an asshole Republican that tanked a Rhode Island MMORPG studio and called for sports journos to be hung. Barry Bonds, the HR king, was shut out because he was gruff with the media and teammates and did roids in an era where the entire industry turned their heads the other way. Roger Clemens for very similar reasons (though he also committed statutory rape on an up&coming country singer that later roped herself). Trevor Bauer is blackballed currently by all 30 MLB teams because he's Republican & called out the league on allowing pitchers to abuse sticky stuff substances.
Like Clemens (and Bauer), this was a much later #MeToo thing showing he was probably a scum bag.
But it will also be used by his haters to retcon why he shouldn't be in the Hall now that he is unbanned.
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Personally, I think both Rose & Shoeless Jackson should be in the Hall since I think it should be purely about objective baseball accomplishments & not about projecting morality on these legends, particularly in fake & ghey Current Year.
I don't think Rose will get in. Most people don't remember his playing days anymore, if they did they probably remember him hanging around too long as a shitty player/manager. He wasn't well liked and that's all most will remember these days.
I know less about Shoeless Joe, but being so ancient probably helps him more than Rose. No one actually remembers what happened, so apocryphal tales win the day.
For years, people have pointed out online that he still posted a ridiculous slash line in the series he supposedly threw.
Things like Ray Liotta's sympathetic depiction in Kevin Costner's Field of Dreams will probably have more of an impact on his chances than the actual facts from a century ago.
bad luck bootsy TRUTHER
kiwifarms.net
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There’s been new research to suggest that Shoeless Joe may not have actually thrown the world series, this explains it in way more detail. There’s just so much going on with it and the further back you look the worse anything baseball related is archived, so there’s certainly room for speculation.
https://sabr.org/journal/article/an...s-public-statements-on-the-black-sox-scandal/
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Man american pope moves fast!
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I used to think like Trump and say, "Well, if he only ever bet on his team to win, then what's the big deal?" I still think that's borderline* for a player, but Rose was a player/manager. His managerial decisions would have been inevitably tainted by knowing he had money on the line. Pitcher complaining about a little twinge in his throwing arm while nursing a one-run lead in the 8th? Eh - see if you can finish it out for us. And then that twinge turns into significant pain that turns into surgery, and you've derailed a player's career because you had $500 riding on the game.
* I still think it falls on the wrong side of the border, but not as far as a manager betting on a game. Similar to the above, if you believe your replacement will not be able to help win games as well as you could, you may withhold disclosing a minor injury that turns into a major one. And if you were right about your replacement (and Rose almost certainly would have been correct there), you've just hurt your whole team's chances while you recover.
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- Feb 10, 2025
the modern white sox might actually be a better team if they dug up joe's corpse and had him bating 3rd
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- Jul 13, 2017
If you ask me, the evidence against Shoeless Joe was always pretty shit. I am not convinced he did it.
GloryHole Stalker
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In Rose's case, there was never any evidence of fixing it; he was just betting on games as the Manager of the Reds. A massive no-no. He absolutely deserved to be punished, but the whole "banned from being voted into the HOF" was something the MLB and the MLBHOF concocted a year after Rose was put on the MLB ineligible list. It was called in the press "The Pete Rose Rule", and although the HOF and MLB denied it, it was hard to argue. And now that Rose is dead, both are deemed no longer ineligible?
What gets my goat, in Shoeless Joe's case, while banned from baseball, he was always eligible for the HOF...until Rose was banned, because they knew Rose would absolutely have been voted in which I believe would have been about another year or so after he was initially banned, and they wanted to rake him over the coals as much as possible. Mostly due to the MLB blaming him for Bart Giamatti's (MLB commish during the Rose scandal) death. Rose dug his own grave when he started betting on baseball, but the MLB has been very, very petty over this issue, IMO.
It's kinda the accepted theory that Joe was scapegoated as the face of the team who had a pretty bad world series. He'll likely get in if only as a nod and a back pat to the historian friends of the writers who make up the classic voting shit.
Pete on the other hand was one million percent guilty as shit. If it goes to the writers he has a 50/50 chance of getting in. A lot of the dumb shit writers are ardent Rose supporters who won't shut the fuck up about Pete Fucking Rose. However, the media hates Trump with a burning passion so there might be some spite votes in. Also given that he was largely just a guy who 'got hits' and was middling to bad at the rest of baseball doesn't help, but Frank Thomas is in the Hall of Fame and he was a very inconsistent power hitter with nothing else going for him. So who the fuck knows. My dad called it the Hall of Allstars and refused to ever mention it again when Ken Griffey Jr didn't get 100% of the vote, but Mariano Rivera did. I think that may have been what killed him actually and he was a Yankees fan.
Pete on the other hand was one million percent guilty as shit. If it goes to the writers he has a 50/50 chance of getting in. A lot of the dumb shit writers are ardent Rose supporters who won't shut the fuck up about Pete Fucking Rose. However, the media hates Trump with a burning passion so there might be some spite votes in. Also given that he was largely just a guy who 'got hits' and was middling to bad at the rest of baseball doesn't help, but Frank Thomas is in the Hall of Fame and he was a very inconsistent power hitter with nothing else going for him. So who the fuck knows. My dad called it the Hall of Allstars and refused to ever mention it again when Ken Griffey Jr didn't get 100% of the vote, but Mariano Rivera did. I think that may have been what killed him actually and he was a Yankees fan.
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If they're gonna let gambling-nigger corpos and smartphone app bookies into the game like all the big 4 sports have, it's the right call to exonerate Charlie Hustle now that they're gonna look like a hypocrite if they don't. And not a single soul believes Shoeless Joe was match-fixing with a slashline of .375/.394/.563.
My point with hypocrisy is because Manfred is currently going with a 'if this thing was exceptional during the era, that's when we'll bring down the hammer' doctrine. That's why the Astros got a slap on the wrist and got to keep their ring: if they had to investigate twenty other teams using technology to steal signs like that's gonna help them hit prime Jacob DeGrom, the league's reputation will be destroyed.
This doctrine does not extend to the BBWAA whose septuagenarian average membership will probably take a couple more decades before they're replaced by younger voters who would be open to apply the same doctrine and give roid-heads like Manny, Pettite, and A-Rod a pass.
And I personally believe they should give it to em. Unlike match-fixing, the Steroid Era actually contributed to the fun of the game with all these cartoonishly large men sending balls ten area codes away or being walked and having to waddle around the base paths with the speed of a mobility scooter. Their normalcy in the game also added to the mythology of non-roid players like Ken Griffey Jr., Ichiro, and Pedro Martinez.
My point with hypocrisy is because Manfred is currently going with a 'if this thing was exceptional during the era, that's when we'll bring down the hammer' doctrine. That's why the Astros got a slap on the wrist and got to keep their ring: if they had to investigate twenty other teams using technology to steal signs like that's gonna help them hit prime Jacob DeGrom, the league's reputation will be destroyed.
This doctrine does not extend to the BBWAA whose septuagenarian average membership will probably take a couple more decades before they're replaced by younger voters who would be open to apply the same doctrine and give roid-heads like Manny, Pettite, and A-Rod a pass.
And I personally believe they should give it to em. Unlike match-fixing, the Steroid Era actually contributed to the fun of the game with all these cartoonishly large men sending balls ten area codes away or being walked and having to waddle around the base paths with the speed of a mobility scooter. Their normalcy in the game also added to the mythology of non-roid players like Ken Griffey Jr., Ichiro, and Pedro Martinez.
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Thomas was a career .301 hitter with 521 HRs, was 56% better than league average offensively for his career and finished with 200+ more walks than Ks (which I never would've guessed before looking it up, unheard of for modern sluggers).
He did have zero baserunning or defensive value, but it's hard to find a more well-rounded offensive player.
I'm sure there are some one-dimensional sluggers in the Hall that aren't deserving (though I struggle to think of any - Harold Baines? Dave Parker?), but Thomas certainly isn't one of them.
Yeah, looking back at his stats his offensive work is good. I think it's just might be my inherit hatred of anything connected to Hawk Harrelson, and his absurdly stupid homerisms way back when. So I'll apologize for the Frank hate.
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- Mar 21, 2023
I experienced Frank Thomas near the end of his career with Toronto in the aughts.
In his one good season before being cut, he was widely hated by the commoners because he got on base too much and "clogged them up" for the rest of his shitty teammates that followed.
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Archive
From the Jays subreddit.
I realize Redditors aren't the same as Voting Members of MLB HoF Selection Committees, but it's a good example of the uphill battle Rose faces.
Includes:
- "SA Trigger Warning"
- only a single word reference to the "gambling" crime he was banned for
- immediate goalpost shifting to allegations of sleeping with a 14 y/o teen in his 30s over 40 years ago (with the #MeToo allegation not surfacing until 2017)
- Rose calling some female beat reporter "Babe" put on the same level as statutory rape
- reference to "Mango Mussolini" pressuring Manfred to reinstate Rose
- leftist REEEing about being tired Boss, screaming, clapping out "Predator"
- impuning Rose's character with a "When did you stop hitting your wife, sir?" request from an opposing attorney when Rose declined to provide a complete list of anyone under 18 he ever fucked
There's enough smoke there to suggest Rose is probably a scumbag. But also note that "gambling" is mentioned once, his baseball accomplishments not at all, but the rest is a whole bunch of sexual innuendo & character assassination.
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- Feb 27, 2019
It should be legal to horsewhip anyone who uses this phrase, starting with Dusty Baker.
Bonesjones
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Shoeless Joe was apparently at the meeting when they got the offer to throw the game, but didn't participate.
Pete Rose is a pedophile who they used betting as an excuse to keep out.
They should both be in because it's about being good at baseball and nothing else (except being a media darling).
Pete Rose is a pedophile who they used betting as an excuse to keep out.
They should both be in because it's about being good at baseball and nothing else (except being a media darling).
GloryHole Stalker
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Based on the links provided upthread by @five of em, Joe may or may not have tried his hardest to win, but at the minimum, how I read it, absolutely was in on the fix and was salty that he didn't get all the $$ he was promised.
While I agree 100% that Pete was guilty of betting on baseball and deserved getting banned from the game, I disagree on your assertion that Pete was just a "basehitter". In his prime years, he had good pop in his bat, and if he chose to, could have been a consistent 20-25 homer a year type. He was a doubles machine, even during his past prime years (Phillies run). And he was always solid in the field no matter where you put him (with the possible exception of 2nd base). And speaking of his run with the Phillies, Mike Schmidt credits Pete with turning him into the player he needed to be to carry the Phillies to a WS win in 1980 and a WS appearance in 83
I think those who detract from Pete as a player are giving too much weight to his post Phillies career, where other than 85, he was pretty dismal. He should have retired after the Phils released him in 83, and if not for Marge Schott, owner of the Reds, it's a virtual guarantee he wouldn't have made it past the 1984 season.
This isn't enough of a hill for me to die on so I'll drop it, but if he doesn't get voted in just compare his runs, and RBIs to Will Clark. He had nearly a decade longer career and only had 900 more runs and 100 something more RBI's on 2000+ more hits than Will and Will didn't get in. I will acknowledge that it wasn't his fault that the Reds and Philies weren't very good at getting him home, but he didn't help matters by being bad at stealing bases. He was caught nearly as much as he was successful.
Like it or not most writers aren't old enough to remember when he was playing at his peak. They look at his stats and see that the majority of his hits either left him on first with a thumb up his ass or trying to steal 2nd and getting caught 42% of the time.
Like it or not most writers aren't old enough to remember when he was playing at his peak. They look at his stats and see that the majority of his hits either left him on first with a thumb up his ass or trying to steal 2nd and getting caught 42% of the time.
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- Feb 23, 2022
Not even God Himself could save the White Sox. I do appreciate that the new Pope is a Real Ball Knower, though.