Battletech - Also known as Trannytech

Did they make that official? When I first heard about it (a good 20 years ago. Jesus Christ, I feel old now), it was considered a fun but apocryphal theory.

Interesting. Sarna.net states this for LB-X

It remains unclear what "LB-X" actually stands for. Several suggested explanations are mentioned in various sources:
  • "LB" supposedly stands for "Lubalin Ballistics", the original designer and manufacturer of the weapon[1][2]
  • "Light Barrel - Extended Range"[3]
  • "Large Bore - Extended"[4]
If you scroll down, there's a link to a post from dev Herbert Beas about this very topic. His words:

"That is a legacy of one of the very rare times where a weapon system was named by its brand, rather than as a generic. LB stands for Lubalin Ballistics, who made the LB-X weapons used in the Star League-era Champion BattleMechs."

So yeah, I dunno how much more official you can get.
 
If you scroll down, there's a link to a post from dev Herbert Beas about this very topic. His words:

"That is a legacy of one of the very rare times where a weapon system was named by its brand, rather than as a generic. LB stands for Lubalin Ballistics, who made the LB-X weapons used in the Star League-era Champion BattleMechs."

So yeah, I dunno how much more official you can get.
Well, that's cool. It's funny how that's the only "brand" name that ended up enshrined in the rules. My group way back just thought it meant "Light Ballistics, [number of pellets] X". So a LB 20-X was a Light Ballistics autocannon, firing 20 pellets per shot.

Of course, I say "pellets", but they're actually explosive submunitions. It's more like showering the target with grenades.
 
This is before you get into abuse of things like skid rules, collisions and all that other stuff. Bowling for Mechs.
Yep. It's just silly fun. Of course, that strategy completely falls apart once you leave Planet Cueball and fight on any map with forests. Or gentle rolling hills. Or just particularly large pebbles. Inertia is a harsh mistress when your top speed is 200+km/h and you have literally zero grip.
That my friend, is what city maps are for. Suicide ram a BattleMech, let the inevitable basement plunge do all the work for you. WIIIIITNEEEEEEESS!

Also, a Gauss Hetzer is just a Jagdpanzer IV (70), change my mind.
 
That my friend, is what city maps are for. Suicide ram a BattleMech, let the inevitable basement plunge do all the work for you. WIIIIITNEEEEEEESS!
A single Savannah Master runs under 100k Cbills, BV of around 200. A ton of AC/20 ammo has nearly as much BV, though it only costs 10k Cbills.
 
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That my friend, is what city maps are for. Suicide ram a BattleMech, let the inevitable basement plunge do all the work for you. WIIIIITNEEEEEEESS!
Any MechWarrior standing at the end of a very long open street in an urban map deserves whatever fate befalls them.

A single Savannah Master runs under 100k Cbills, BV of around 200. A ton of AC/20 ammo has nearly as much BV, though it only costs 10k Cbills.
In fairness, a ton of AC/20 ammo can kill up to 5 Savanna Masters so it all checks out.
 
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In fairness, a ton of AC/20 ammo can kill up to 5 Savanna Masters so it all checks out.
It can also kill 0, given the hit chances... Speed can be armor. Just ask Scarborough Limited and their S-series of hover vehicles.
 
It can also kill 0, given the hit chances... Speed can be armor. Just ask Scarborough Limited and their S-series of hover vehicles.
I thought we were talking about city maps. For hover vehicles in urban warfare, speed can be armor... or it can also be a face-first crash into a building if you try turning. There's a reason why cities are Jump Jet country.

On the other hand, by RAW, you can do Mario Kart-style boosts using sideslipping because the "extra" movement from the sideslip costs no MP. It's unpredictable and silly, but if you're already bowling with Savannah Masters you might as well go for the extra style points.
 
I thought we were talking about city maps. For hover vehicles in urban warfare, speed can be armor... or it can also be a face-first crash into a building if you try turning. There's a reason why cities are Jump Jet country.

On the other hand, by RAW, you can do Mario Kart-style boosts using sideslipping because the "extra" movement from the sideslip costs no MP. It's unpredictable and silly, but if you're already bowling with Savannah Masters you might as well go for the extra style points.
Oh, city maps. Well, yeah, that's going to be just a bit dangerous for a SM, but that's why you drift for speed, style points, and extra badass takedowns.

Note; I have very little awareness of the actual tabletop rules of BT, mostly interested in the lore and the MechWarrior video games, so I'll take your word for it. That said, if you're not going to take a five ton deathtrap and ram into something 20x your mass at full speed, why are you even living?
 
I thought we were talking about city maps. For hover vehicles in urban warfare, speed can be armor... or it can also be a face-first crash into a building if you try turning. There's a reason why cities are Jump Jet country.

On the other hand, by RAW, you can do Mario Kart-style boosts using sideslipping because the "extra" movement from the sideslip costs no MP. It's unpredictable and silly, but if you're already bowling with Savannah Masters you might as well go for the extra style points.
Just bring a small bag's worth of Savannah Masters and play "Night of Fire" on the stereo for the battle.
 
That my friend, is what city maps are for. Suicide ram a BattleMech, let the inevitable basement plunge do all the work for you. WIIIIITNEEEEEEESS!

Also, a Gauss Hetzer is just a Jagdpanzer IV (70), change my mind.
See if you can hunt down CampaignAnon on /tg/, ask him about his suicide bomber locust.
 
Just bring a small bag's worth of Savannah Masters and play "Night of Fire" on the stereo for the battle.
We're talking about exceedingly fast hovercraft here. Mute City or Big Blue are also perfectly acceptable.
 
You're talking about tabletop terms, I'm talking about in-universe reasons. In-universe, it takes money to develop a new vehicle, and a Gauss Rifle isn't a drop-in replacement for an Autocannon for at the very least two reasons: power consumption and recoil management.
In-universe, it might cost money to develope a Hetzer variant with a Gauss rifle, but given the existence of multiple variants of the Hetzer that change its layout quite significantly, including a version with a large laser, one with LRMs, one version with SRMs, a version with an LB-X 20 with a fusion engine, a completely sealed version with a fusion engine, I would say it's quite evidently false to say there is no in-universe incentive to develope and produce variants and developement costs don't seem to be much of an issue either, given that exchanging an ICE with a fusion engine or sealing the entire vehicle are quite radical changes too.
Given that there is a laser version, power consumption should not be an issue and the Regulator and Alacorn seem to handle the recoil of Gauss Rifles just fine (the former being only 5 tons heavier, riding on a rubber skirt and having the gun at a comparatively high point inside a turret, I would say that the Hetzer is going to handle it just fine.

If we're going by your argument, there's no reason why we couldn't replace the Gauss Rifle on a Hollander with a bunch of machineguns and call it a Piranha.
1) Why would this be a problem?
2) Why does this matter?

If you want something that can reach out and touch someone, get a few LRM carriers. If you want something cheap to annoy people in urban combat, get Hetzers. Or Urbies, for that matter.
And if you want to get a cheap self-propelled direct-fire tank destroyer, you get a Gauss Hetzer™... especially since you can field almost an entire lance of them for the money a single LRM-Carrier would cost you. It really depends on the niche you need to fill and I never said the Hetzer would a be-all-end-all weapon system for all circumstances, I always said it would be limited to its niche (but I still maintain: that niche is far less restricted than the "If there's no city, I'm in some deep shitty" AC20 version).

And just for shits n giggles: The cost of a Gauss Rifle and an LRM20 are pretty similar, but LRM ammo is more expensive than Gauss ammo (at less savlos per ton, even), so in terms of upkeep and cost efficiency alone, the Gauss wins again.

See, if you think the idea is silly and you don't like it, I am totally fine with that, but you came up with reasons why it wouldn't work in principle and as far as I'm concerned, all these arguments have been disproven both by lore and by rules:
  • The Gauss isn't more expensive than the AC20 so that argument imploded.
  • The Gauss is rare, but then there's a version that uses an LB-X, which is even more rare (and significantly more expensive, which again disproves the argument above).
  • Obviously, Quikscell (or whoever's putting out these Hetzer variants) doesn't mind pouring money into developement, when you look at the wide variety of different loadouts, that change the entire propulsion system, replace the armament with completely different types of weapons or turns the entire thing into a hermetically sealed vehicle.
  • Given the price of the LB-X and especially the sealed version, it's evidently false to say that the Hetzer is entirely defined by its low pricetag.
  • There is nothing to support the statement that the Hetzer can't deal with the recoil (low centre of mass plus a casemate structure would make it insanely easy to mitigate btw). Even assuming it would demand money and time to develope something to absorb the shock, given the many stock variants that also took time and money to be made, that hurdle would surely not hold back anyone... and just for the record: the 30 ton Yellow Jacket seems to handle a Gauss rifle just fine and the 30 ton Karnov can fire a Thumper Artillery Piece without issue, too.
  • Given the number of vehicles and planes using a Gauss rifle, I would assume Gauss-rifle shock absorbtion methods are a well-researched field and a plethora of solutions are ready to use off the shelf - you simply do not have to reinvent the wheel every time you make a new car.
Regarding that last point:
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Oil-filled cylinders with powerful springs to dampen the shock of firing isn't really advanced space magic, you know.

A better argument would be that the AC10 version offers almost the same damage at only slightly less range with significantly more ammo and a small edge in armor.
But that's not an argument you made and even if you did, I would still point out that having a greater range (especially in a game that penalizes shots at long range so harshly) and a tiny edge in damage is a sufficient advantage to justify a Gauss version for the financially well-endowed warlord connaisseur. The AC10 version would still be the most cost efficient version for the warlord on a budget, but a small increase in price would allow you to field a very cheap, reasonably armored and mobile platform, that carries the most powerful long range direct-fire gun in the game to round out your arsenal.

But as a bit of a personal takeaway: I bought Hetzer minis a while ago but I could never really decide whether I want the AC20 version or something different but this back and forth made one thing clear to me, the best version for me is the standard AC10 version. 50 tounds at a reasonable range without a minimum range and a bit of additional armor is a pretty good deal. I dislike custom variants and try to avoid them wherever I can.

Either way, this is pointless. Saying "we need a Gauss Hetzer" doesn't do anything, none of our wishes are canon
I never said I want the Gauss Hetzer to be canon and this entire statement feels like a cop-out argument to me.

Also, a Gauss Hetzer is just a Jagdpanzer IV (70), change my mind.
You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm more of a Jagdpanther type myself...
ae58cd886d36bde485429f2354584e0f--ww-photos-ww-tanks.jpg
That thing just looks like it means business.
 
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Not really saying its a bad thing. Just a simple statement of fact, more or less.

Also, considering the overall QC of Quickscell is somehow worse than that of 1945 Germany, it isn't like you can break a factory-fresh Hetzer by stripping out half the tank. I mean, there's a good chance you only got shipped half a tank and you're going to have to finish building it yourself, anyways. Why not replace the AC/20 with LRM's if Quickscell forgot to install the recoil mechanism and traversing gears and its welded right into the hull?

Hmm... me thinks ComStar needs to crack down on 80% "Ghost Tanks" in the name of common-sense arms control. Can't have all of these untraceable, highly-modified ceevee's roaming around.
 
"Some assembly required - ammo feeding system sold seperately"

That kinda raises an interesting point:

What is the Toyota Hilux of Battletech? You know, the cheap, readily available civilian vehicle that can be turned into a combat vehicle for literally every role, simply by bolting -say- a 30mm autocanon on the back.
It's still the Toyota Hilux, isn't it?
 
Keep in mind that a critical hit to your Gauss is probably going to kill your Hetzer stone dead.

EDIT: Let me rephrase that: your Hetzer will be dead. The Hetzer's main gun is mounted on its Front Side (no turret) and it only has four points of internal structure. A critical hit to a Gauss weapon inflicts damage akin to an ammo explosion (one shot's worth, in the case of Gauss). So, fifteen points. Your Hetzer's front falls off and the tank is destroyed.
 
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Not really saying its a bad thing. Just a simple statement of fact, more or less.

Also, considering the overall QC of Quickscell is somehow worse than that of 1945 Germany, it isn't like you can break a factory-fresh Hetzer by stripping out half the tank. I mean, there's a good chance you only got shipped half a tank and you're going to have to finish building it yourself, anyways. Why not replace the AC/20 with LRM's if Quickscell forgot to install the recoil mechanism and traversing gears and its welded right into the hull?

Hmm... me thinks ComStar needs to crack down on 80% "Ghost Tanks" in the name of common-sense arms control. Can't have all of these untraceable, highly-modified ceevee's roaming around.
Funny that you mention the QC of Quickscell. During the Jihad they built a refit version of the Condor Hovertank. Since they couldn'T manufactu the tank fast enough some exec had the bright idea to sell the tank in an assembly kit (for slightly less) Not a lot of customers build the tank according to the instructions and where left wondering "Huh what are those parts for?" while the tank looked fine from the outside.

And since you are all talking about Jagdpanzer. The Blakist Hetzer variant with stealth armor was called Jagdpanzer.
 
Keep in mind that a critical hit to your Gauss is probably going to kill your Hetzer stone dead.

EDIT: Let me rephrase that: your Hetzer will be dead. The Hetzer's main gun is mounted on its Front Side (no turret) and it only has four points of internal structure. A critical hit to a Gauss weapon inflicts damage akin to an ammo explosion (one shot's worth, in the case of Gauss). So, fifteen points. Your Hetzer's front falls off and the tank is destroyed.
Well, yeah, but a hit on the conventional ammo of a regular Hetzer will turn it onto a soft rain of scrap metal too. And unlike a mech, where the number of crits of a gun influences the likelihood of a weapon hit, the chance is 1/36 on a crit - and when it's a crit resulting from armor penetration, loss of vehicle is not far behind anyway.
That is to say: the risk of the gauss blowing up in the crew's face is rather negligible, even though I will concede that non-Gauss weapons have a slight edge cause at worst, it results in a mission kill.
 
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Keep in mind that a critical hit to your Gauss is probably going to kill your Hetzer stone dead.

EDIT: Let me rephrase that: your Hetzer will be dead. The Hetzer's main gun is mounted on its Front Side (no turret) and it only has four points of internal structure. A critical hit to a Gauss weapon inflicts damage akin to an ammo explosion (one shot's worth, in the case of Gauss). So, fifteen points. Your Hetzer's front falls off and the tank is destroyed.
Not that it matters much in this case because vehicles and their criticals work differently from battlemechs. Namely, weapon size doesn't matter. A Small Laser is as likely to be disabled by a weapon critical as a Heavy Gauss Rifle.

In this case, since you can disable a weapon from the front but not detonate ammo, a Gauss Hetzer would have a chance of getting blown up outright from a frontal shot, while the AC/20 could just have the gun destroyed from the front and the ammo would be safe in the back. Either way the Hetzer is rendered useless. If you use the premiere vehicle-killing weapons in BattleTech (SRMs or LB-Xs) you're a lot more likely to sandblast its wheels off and turn it into a sitting duck before you pop the Gauss Rifle.

It's kind of like carrying ammo in the center torso. Yes, there's a chance it will blow up. But it's so unlikely that if something detonated a CT ammo bin, you were either doomed to begin with, or it's just not your day.

ETA: also, we don't talk about Blakist designs. These dudes were cray-cray.
 
Not that it matters much in this case because vehicles and their criticals work differently from battlemechs. Namely, weapon size doesn't matter. A Small Laser is as likely to be disabled by a weapon critical as a Heavy Gauss Rifle.

In this case, since you can disable a weapon from the front but not detonate ammo, a Gauss Hetzer would have a chance of getting blown up outright from a frontal shot, while the AC/20 could just have the gun destroyed from the front and the ammo would be safe in the back. Either way the Hetzer is rendered useless. If you use the premiere vehicle-killing weapons in BattleTech (SRMs or LB-Xs) you're a lot more likely to sandblast its wheels off and turn it into a sitting duck before you pop the Gauss Rifle.

It's kind of like carrying ammo in the center torso. Yes, there's a chance it will blow up. But it's so unlikely that if something detonated a CT ammo bin, you were either doomed to begin with, or it's just not your day.

ETA: also, we don't talk about Blakist designs. These dudes were cray-cray.
Yeah... When you really run the numbers, the chances of a pristine vehicle being taken out by a lucky crit to a Gauss are astronomically low.
It's a 1/36 chance for the opponent to roll a crit on the hit-location roll and another 1/36 chance of that hit being a Weapon Destroyed crit.
If that Gauss is going to eat a crit, it's way more likely that you're already eating dirt for dinner and something is pounding its way into your soft, cushy internals...

That being said, I was unfamiliar with how vehicle crits work and the fact you can only hit ammo from behind is a nice touch. I can definetly see why vehicles can be effective against Mechs even though Mechs get a "rule of cool" boost.

And now I imagine a Saladin with a Heavy Gauss... that's kinda wild... but frankly, the Ultra AC20 version is even scarier. 40 Damage in one salvo, now that's messed up, even if (or maybe because of) it getting two rolls on hit location. Flanking someone in the rear arc with that thing must be bitchin'.
 
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