Debates like that are not won with facts and logic, even if you make good arguments he won't change his mind as he sees it as part of his core values people like this are lost causes and you should not engage with them in debates.
This is the old "your democracy is greek, your car is german your alphabet is latin... "etc, this dosen't justify importing infinity africans in any way and if you look at their examples all of those great things that we adopted came from homogenous societies that valued their culture
Another "argument" (an appeal to emotion really) that some people keep throwing around is "They came here for a better life !" , Uh, ok ? Every single thing we do is for a better life, that's why we get jobs, invest money, eat food, etc. It is not our fault you were born is such a shithole that it stayed poor and dirty for hundreds of years and we shouldn't shit up our countries to make it better for you. But at the end of the day most knew this already they just love to worship the third worlders and everything stems from either their inferiority complex or wanting to get richer in the case of politicians.
This is the old "your democracy is greek, your car is german your alphabet is latin... "etc, this dosen't justify importing infinity africans in any way and if you look at their examples all of those great things that we adopted came from homogenous societies that valued their culture
I agree but this is a specific one I'd like to have more of a rebuttal for him for.
Is it hypocritical to (i know it's not but devil's advocate) practice stoicism or like thai food if we our we're adapting from said cultures?
Debates like that are not won with facts and logic, even if you make good arguments he won't change his mind as he sees it as part of his core values people like this are lost causes and you should not engage with them in debates.
And last but not least, does your friend actually believe that shit or is he just virtue signaling because he believes he won't have to ever interact with said niggers? Because he will, be sure to remind him of that
It's less like I actually see this as some talk-no-jutsu where I can convince the faggot he's wrong and awaken him to see life in some beautiful way. I just hate this guy and want him to have to chew some humility in knowing he's completely full of shit.
He's just a guy I have to deal with on a minimal basis that never got over losing his negress he dated for a couple months and failing a social sciences class.
This guy is literally discount Vaush in human form.
I'm not insistent on debating him because I think he's intellectually honest. It's the opposite.
Let's assume the best of multiculturalism, all the people brought in are the engineers and doctors the west need. Now what happens is that the countries we imported them from now have a lack of engineers and doctors which will cause them to continue to be disfunctional without hope for repair.
That makes multiculturalism a continuation of Colonialism, except instead of extraction of physical wealth, the west extracts the human wealth without returning anything equivalent in return. If you want to help developing countries the solution is opposite, give them people with talents to continue spreading their education.
Even if we don't bring in people with talents, it is still hypocrisy of bringing a tiny amount of people in, who usually aren't the groups primarily in distress (since those have economic difficulties getting in) and behave as if we saved them, classic white saviour complex.
With Globalism it is a tool of corporations and powerful countries that have disproportionate power to affect policies and politics in weaker countries for maximum financial benefits. Under globalism, corporations can use economic sanctions as weapons against weaker countries to allow their workers rights to be violated.
Both multiculturalism and globalism are extremely broad in theory and in practice. Attempting to condemn either in whole will make you look like a retard who doesn't understand every last facet of his life is a direct result of these two things. If you want to convince him the immigration of idiots and fanatics into your country is bad then you must focus on those aspects.
I agree but this is a specific one I'd like to have more of a rebuttal for him for.
Is it hypocritical to (i know it's not but devil's advocate) practice stoicism or like thai food if we our we're adapting from said cultures?
It's less like I actually see this as some talk-no-jutsu where I can convince the faggot he's wrong and awaken him to see life in some beautiful way. I just hate this guy and want him to have to chew some humility in knowing he's completely full of shit.
He's just a guy I have to deal with on a minimal basis that never got over losing his negress he dated for a couple months and failing a social sciences class.
This guy is literally discount Vaush in human form.
I'm not insistent on debating him because I think he's intellectually honest. It's the opposite.
Passively aggressively poke him every time a cultural enrichment happens. Not directly to his face, but throw it in the air every time he's in hearing range. You'll never convince him but maybe you can make him chimp our for some lulz
Ask him for any historical example of people with irreconcilable differences being forced to live together against their wills, and it resulting in cumbayah harmony (instead of war, genocide, or a split).
Ask him for any historical example of people with irreconcilable differences being forced to live together that didn't end in war, genocide, or a split.
The Romans did it pretty successfully with the Iberian cultures, Gauls and the Punic cultures that used to comprise Carthage among others. St. Augustine was Punic in ancestry.
It took centuries, though, and the Romans didn't let them get away with anything that questioned Roman dominance.
He loves multiculturalism and thinks that all wars and tribalism are just examples of humans choosing to be ignorant and biased, that whiteness is a social construct and that the idea of nationalism always leads to genocide
There is only one way to make this faggot balk is to send him in an " diverse" neighborhood and make him live there for a year or until he says he isn't anymore pro diversity. He will either die in the process or convert. There is no point of explaining to these faggots until forced to face what they are advocating for.
Just cajole him to move to diverse neighborhoods and make friends with the locals. Ask him where are his fundamentalist muslim friends are. And why arent he lives in diverse neighborhoods .
He loves multiculturalism and thinks that all wars and tribalism are just examples of humans choosing to be ignorant and biased, that whiteness is a social construct and that the idea of nationalism always leads to genocide.
- 90% of the current world is wrong, 99% of humans in history are wrong
- Once I rewire the whole world to my views, everyone will see how utopian things are
A great example of the Left's cognitive dissonance is their theory on African chaos: colonialism is to blame because they drew borders that put slightly different flavors of ethnic group in the same country, so of course they can't help massacring each other with machetes.
Sudan spent like 45 of its first 55 years post-colony in civil war, finally split into Sudan and South Sudan so incompatible tribes don't have to share a country, and within a year South Sudan devolves into another decade of civil war, because Africa can only see peace once every local gang has its own Ethnostate. Btw regular Sudan, free of the South Sudanese, is now in another civil war...
They apply this logic to gang warfare in Baltimore and Chicago: populations have fallen for decades, leaving schools 20% full, and consolidating schools means the 13th Street Kia Boys and the 14th Street Murdah Killahs cross each other's turf and share a school, so of course they shoot each other. Every block has to have its own empty school to minimize casualties.
One issue is that you're going to argue with someone like this (and unlike many here, I won't label them a lost cause by default - everyone's stupid at some point, or on some issue, and it often takes a crisis to properly reframe their perspective), you're going to have to frame your side in a way that it becomes functionally impossible for him to counterattack on - and thankfully, this is not hard.
The key is to eviscerate his perspective with leftist arguments. At their core, many leftist ideals are not negative in and of themselves, but they become so through the people who choose to warp them to fit a greater agenda. This is not a behavior unique to the left - it's just that with them part of a major cultural paradigm, they are infinitely more prone to it, especially right now.
Facts will always help, but you're not going to be able to ever nail him on hypocrisy (for example). The harsher forms of Leftism all have baked-in excuses for it. What you can instead do is fuck his own beliefs up using his own worldview.
If a lot of his perspective is based on harm reduction, like many new lefties are, pointing out the real-time consequences of these policies and how they are actively failing at a fundamental level and specifically harming the people they're ostensibly supposed to help is a silver bullet.
If his perspective is based on economic issues, you can point out how his favored positions are actively hindering what he cares about by actively making the world poorer, driving down wages, making the social safety net collapse, and making it harder and harder for people to afford basic necessities.
If his perspective is based on equity, point out where the preferential treatment being given to the newcomers, even with the best of intentions, is painting a fucking target on them. When it comes to housing assistance, medical coverage, and more, they are being given primacy over people who have always paid for it and who fought tooth and claw to be able to get it through the proper channels after immigrating here legally. This is despite them not contributing to the system in the first place. While the government is ultimately responsible for this decision, everyone else just gets to see some dude who just hopped off a boat and had no vetting whatsoever jump the line on housing assistance that had a waiting list of half a decade or more, or get medical assistance when they've never been able to afford coverage, and they are going to blame the logical party at the end of the day, something they cannot reasonably be held responsible for.
Here in NY, Section 8 (Housing Assistance) has a waiting list of half a decade or more. Because NYC is run by shortsighted morons, the government is essentially letting newcoming illegals cut the line for housing assistance over Americans - including legal immigrants, who went through the whole process to be here through the proper channels - who have been in the fucking queue for years. There's documented cases of them being given EBT cards with like a thousand dollars a month in food benefits when your average New Yorker on SNAP is getting like 30 bucks of free groceries a month through that same card. Does that sound fair to you?
This isn't even a single problem restricted to the US, this is happening throughout the UK, with the overpowering majority of public housing that becomes available going straight to people who came here from other countries. It is completely unfair to not only the people who lived the in these countries by default (and pay their fucking taxes to be able to use such services), but every single person who immigrated there under legal channels and did the right fucking thing.
What I am getting at with all of these is that you will have to tailor your arguments carefully - far more than if you were just shitposting - and use them to undermine their positions. You have to also maintain your cool and conviction, and remember that most of his arguments will come from a position of emotional appeal first and foremost. If you're able to do nothing else but get him to stop and think for a few minutes, you've basically done your part.
Beauty
Different cultures are beautiful in different ways, making everything the same will make the world a much uglier place.
Choice
Right now, if you really hate the place you live in and the culture in it, you can get the fuck out of there and live somewhere else with different rules.
If every place is the same, you don't have a choice, you're more of a slave than you ever were before.
There is more than 1 way of doing things.
You don't want a situation where, if 1 company decides that you're evil, you essentially get depersoned and can't get anything done anymore.
I think different cultures need to be preserved for the benefit of humanity.
They should evolve with the times and get rid of the shitty parts (because every culture has shitty parts) but they should not disappear.
Even just a thing like only having 1 language in the world gets rid of a lot of human intellectual capacity.
For example, the way East Asian languages are, they present math differently, making it easier for people to understand it.
Studies have been done that it's a major reason why the "Asians do be good at math" exists, look it up.
I know the correct answer is to not give a shit and move on from someone arguing in bad faith, but I really do want to present multiple objective points to where he'd actually have to fully admit to his entire worldview being retarded.
see this is the problem. You can' argue or reason with these people. They're espousing the ideals of their cult not a comprehensive political worldview. Any corner you back him into he will simply forget the point you made after a night of watching the tee vee.
What happens when you mix all the colors together? You get one shade of brown. Why would you destroy the diversity by mixing it all away? Why would you make every place like every other place? The Internet has already destroyed local, unique cultures. The logical conclusion of the American liberal insanity is one single shade of brown, approximately 88-92 IQ. Smart enough to do what they are told; dumb enough to not know how to overthrow the elite.
Wow funny you made this thread because I was JUST thinking of why segregation would be a good thing.
Humans split up into groups form their own cultures, identities, religions, etc. that shapes who they are and what their people are like. When you force everyone to become 1 singular group, what culture do you have left? What identities do you have when everyone is expected to just "get along"? You're just "the human race" and not much else, and that becomes a lot less interesting. I'm sure something like this is one of the reasons why we're facing an identity crisis in first world countries with pronoun/gender shit in vogue right now.
Relevant 'toss comic below that illustrates my point. View attachment 6327056
I'm not generally a multiculturalist (all cultures are not created equal) but individuality exists without divisions of nationalism. if you think monoculture removes all differences between humans, just take a look at Japan. this argument is bad and dumb and that comic is so insultingly fucking retarded that I hope whoever made it spends eternity receiving atomic wedgies in hell
@Jaimas i admire you trying to make them see the other side. But we all can see the obvious downsides of multikulti and diversity and infinity niggers fucking hell i am a slavic janny that barely finished high school understand too many people too little infrastructure and services and everyone are miserable and i am not very smart. This guy is ideolog or what i call an idiot. The only way to handle these people is constant derision and mockery . Constant ribbing with look at this guy wants us to live with diversity and multiculturalism but himself refuses to move to diverse and multikulti neighbourhood. Over and over crack jokes like " i love when my servants are diverse and cheap but i wouldn't want them to be near me " over and over. Either he will shut up or try to prove you are wrong and get himself killed in the process. Either way we win .
Ask him for any historical example of people with irreconcilable differences being forced to live together against their wills, and it resulting in cumbayah harmony (instead of war, genocide, or a split).
@Jaimas i admire you trying to make them see the other side. But we all can see the obvious downsides of multikulti and diversity and infinity niggers fucking hell i am a slavic janny that barely finished high school understand too many people too little infrastructure and services and everyone are miserable and i am not very smart. This guy is ideolog or what i call an idiot. The only way to handle these people is constant derision and mockery . Constant ribbing with look at this guy wants us to live with diversity and multiculturalism but himself refuses to move to diverse and multikulti neighbourhood. Over and over crack jokes like " i love when my servants are diverse and cheap but i wouldn't want them to be near me " over and over. Either he will shut up or try to prove you are wrong and get himself killed in the process. Either way we win .
Something I know from experience (as I too, was once a leftie activist, though obviously, I was never a progressive, just an oldschool Dem) is that often it takes dislodging them from their comfort zones in order to make them see reason. The current Dem establishment and the Progressives in particular have effectively turned their political activism into a secular religion, complete with original sin, demons, and apostasy. As a result, you need to use different tactics from when I left. You need to focus on how the ideology hurts them, betrays their own ideals, and ultimately ensures they'll never accomplish their goals. Ideally, you use the same tactics you do when dealing with Cults - never press too hard but always undermine the control and always provide them an out.
It makes me realize how lucky I was that "fuck this, I'm out" was such an easy choice for my generation, since my own departure was pretty fucking funny:
Some shithead from the DNC called me in 2012 and invited me to a fundraising dinner for Obama. It was like $350 a head to attend, and no, you don't get to ask anything, you get to bask in the presence of Democrat Black Jesus. When I said that was too expensive for me, as I am a blue-collar boy who relies on public transportation, I was told that I could just donate to the DNC for the event instead, and asked me for a $20-50 donation. That pissed me off.
At the time, Obamacare had just fucked me out of half my tax refund, since I couldn't afford the junk insurance required and the option for "I can't afford this shit" took months for the IRS to fucking clear (I did eventually get the money back, no thanks to the Obama administration). I then joked that maybe Obama should be buying me dinner, since I'm below the federal poverty line and Obama has a networth in the millions. The DNC handler that called was not amused and hung up on me after calling me a dick.
Point of fact: just like you're not able to fully recognize a relationship as toxic when you're in it and can only see how bad it was after you got out, or you can't really realize your favorite uncle when you were growing up was so much fun because he was out of his goddamn mind until you get to be a bit older, you can't really recognize how hard the system is fucking you until you've intentionally disconnected from it for a bit.
When you want to hire workers from your own country you have to deal with bullshit like "unions" and "human rights abuses". No one cares if the foreigners you shovel in (or shovel jobs out to) suffer those instead
Even the Ellis Island story americans love praising is an example of this, no one cared about tenement homes or sweatshops burning down because only Polish/Italian people worked there
