Man how am I being retarded for not wanting a trailer for the upcoming episodes shoved down my throat half a second after the current episode just ended?? And does it matter if it's the final episode or the final episodes? what's the difference ffs. Of course they're not going to show major spoilers, but it still ruins the mood.
Oh fuck off you dumb cunt you were freaking out because you thought they were telling you everything happening in the finale because you're apparently too retarded to understand basic english, just take the l and shut the fuck up about it
Jimmy broke bad because he was tired of watching people play by the rules and get shafted by the Howards and Chucks of the world. Walt broke bad because he wanted to provide for his family and prove he was an alpha male. Gus broke bad to get revenge. And Kim broke bad (past tense; she already started a season ago, at least) because she wants to be a hero lawyer like Atticus Finch and Paul Newman from The Verdict.
I solidly disagree that either Kim or Saul actually broke bad. They might both be on the way (with Saul much further along) but they have yet to reach the point of no return.
Man how am I being retarded for not wanting a trailer for the upcoming episodes shoved down my throat half a second after the current episode just ended??
I solidly disagree that either Kim or Saul actually broke bad. They might both be on the way (with Saul much further along) but they have yet to reach the point of no return.
"They've broken bad" and "they've reached the point of no return" are not equivalent statements, either. Break bad simply means to go from being a law-abiding citizen to a criminal; it does not mean that the person has become irredeemable and passed the point of no return.
In fact, throughout the show, MOST characters on the "bad" side are not at a point of no return. Mike, for example, spends most of the series desperately trying to break good (even though he resigned himself to bad long before the events of BCS). Jessie is one long redemption arc, and characters like Hank and Jane and (possibly?) Nacho technically don't reach a "point of no return" until they... you know. Even Jimmy isn't at a "point of no return", at least not ethically speaking; he's at a point of no return in regards to the law (and possibly in regards to getting shot by the narcos), but so far as we know, from everything that transpires in BCS and BB, he's still got sympathetic, redeeming characteristics; only way that might change is if we learn that he killed Kim or something.
Kim's been a "bad girl" ever since she realized how much fun it was to scam people (remember: she was the one who earned the tequila bottle stopper), and she's been actively engaged in illegal activity since at least the time she tricked her pro-bono client into taking that plea deal. In fact, her most recent major storyline (the call center eviction) was entirely predicated on the idea that she'd happily break the law and manipulate people in order to get her "hero lawyer" moment.
Make no mistake, she's already bad. The Kettleman thing is just there to underscore the fact that she is (and has been, for at least a season now) "worse" than Jimmy.
(although I would personally describe her less as "scary Jimmy" and more as "succesfull Jimmy"; Jimmy if Jimmy wasn't held back by as much baggage, both as a lawyer and now as a crook)
To become a criminal is the point of no return. We're not talking about dipping your toe in the pool, we're talking about when you full on jump.
Mike having a code of ethics doesn't mean that he's trying to break good. Even your average mafia guy won't hit civilians, etc. He reached the breaking point a long series of murder ago.
Jessie is not someone who is going for redemption, he's someone who reached the bottom of the barrel, hates what he's done and happened around him, and desperately wants to get out. It's not like he had an illumination about the evils of what he's done and repents, he just wants to start fresh and leave it all behind. This is not a redemption arc. This is trying to get away with it. How many people died of overdoses because of his drugs? How many people died because of his choices? The things we see him agonize over (mostly that Mexican chick getting murdered) he was never responsible for, but as far as the trail of death and destruction he left behind he's never shown care. Jessie is a horrible human being.
Hank never did anything wrong.
Jane was always rotten, she might have been under control for a second and a half but it went out the window the second she started to get high again and dragged down Jessie with her. It's that last part that makes her rotten, by the way, not that she had an addiction. She knew what kind of hell it was, and she convinced Jessie to go down that road. Walt objectively did the right thing letting her drown in her own puke and not intervening, Jessie would have ended up dead otherwise. She had reached the point of no return by dragging others down with her.
By the time we reach the end of Breaking Bad, Jimmy has absolutely reached the point of no return. He is not only the scam artist who preys on his clients as we meet him, but he's responsible, directly or indirectly, for the death of others and a whole litany of crimes. He's not a criminal lawyer, he's a criminal lawyer, yo. He's past the point of no return as well.
Which brings us to Kim and Jimmy in BCS, who have yet to reach that point of no return.
Most people break the law, one way or another. Very few people are Ned Flanders. However, that doesn't mean they broke bad, it just means they are human who mostly try to do the right thing, but still do the wrong thing once in a while.
I'm not denying that, morally, they are both going down the drain, Jimmy especially, but overall they have still not reached the point where they broke bad, where they hurt the innocent on purpose for the sake of it, where they've reached the point of no return.
You're arbitrarily asserting that to "break bad" is to reach the point of no return, but that is wrong, according to the slang definition, according to Vince Gilligan, and according to the definition offered by Jesse in BB. "Breaking bad" is simply about becoming a criminal or abandoning social norms, not about passing some undefined limit beyond which there is no return; all throughout BB and BCS, we see the message that there is plenty of ethical wiggle room for characters who have become criminals, as again, we see huge differences in ethics and action between, say, Jesse, Mike, Tuco, and Gus (all four of whom are career criminals, but yet embody very different philosophies, and occupy very different places in the ethical hierarchy). Baseball Card Guy broke bad, just as Skyler did, and just as Lalo did. They're still on very different levels.
But let's set that aside for a minute.
Because if you wish to maintain that "to become a criminal is the point of no return", then Kim has already passed that point. Kim became a criminal several seasons ago. She's committed plenty of crimes, both to help cover for Jimmy, and to help further her career; she jumped in THAT pool the moment she decided to become Gisele St Claire (which, again, is deliberately called back to with the tequila bottle reference in Episode One; she is Jimmy's Rosebud, though it was a Rosebud of her own making).
Kim is a criminal, and thus, per your own definition, beyond the point of no return. She is a criminal, and, in your own view, someone who has "broke bad". It shouldn't and wouldn't matter what her motives are; she is (and has been) a rotten person beyond the point of redemption, so yes - the point of the scene IS to drive home that she's "broke bad" and become scary Jimmy. The point of the scene is to remind the viewer that yes, Kim is a criminal, yes, she embraces crime willingly, and yes, at this point in the story she's become even more of a criminal than Jimmy is (partly because she's driven by this self-righteous view of herself as the "hero lawyer", doing "the right thing" even though it involves threatening and extorting a down-on-their-luck married couple), and that is a scary thought.
Now, I don't think Kim's passed the "point of no return", as I don't think there IS a point of no return, at least not for most characters in the series (outside of death, of course). I think you've missed a huge chunk of the plotline if you don't recognize the role that redemption arcs, Robin Hood stories, and ethical ambiguity play in BB and BCS.
But regardless, Kim's speeding towards a point of tragic and lethal repercussions; a tragic climax where her hubris and ambition prove to be her undoing. And it's clear that the Kim scenes are reinforcing that: reminding the audience that Kim is turning into a monster, and with a nod to her own words to Jimmy, "you aren't my undoing, I am my own undoing."
(also, come on. Hank did PLENTY of things wrong. Which is why things ended up the way they did for him.)
See I could argue with you, about everything you said, but honestly this one sentence is enough.
You see it as 'threatening and extorting a down-on-their-luck married couple', I see it as 'doing the bare minimum to a pair of wretched criminals who at the very least deserve to get necklaced for extorting hundreds of seniors out of their money'
Does anyone know if they are doing the You Tube shorts like they used to? They would have Ethics training with Kim, New employee training with Mike, ect. They would come on right after the episode would air on AMC. But I was'nt able to find one after the show last night.
BCS has a cozy feeling that many modern dramas fail to capture. For a show that is supposed to have you glued to the edge of your seat in suspense, it really does a good job putting you at ease with its familiar setting and self-contained storyline
It's not at all that Kim "broke bad" or she's now "even scary Jimmy", it's that she was in front of a couple that not only got away with stealing a sizeable amount of money in the past, but now they have scammed hundreds of poor old people out of the little money they have. She fucking hates them because of that, and that's why she feels no compunction fucking them in the ass until she gets what they want, and show them who's wearing the strapon.
I think this plays into the foreshadowing of "Days of Wine and Roses" being used as the intro to the whole season. If you remember that, Jack Lemmon's character gets Lee Remick's character, a teetotaler, to try alcohol with a Brandy Alexander, almost the definitive chick drink of the time.
The sweetness makes the poison go down. In this case, her righteous justiceboner gets her to do something she wouldn't have previously done and she realizes she loves the cruelty.
In Days of Wine and Roses, the movie, the couple go down some very dark roads and end up at rock bottom and try to get sober. Lemmon's character does. The movie ends with Remick continuing to go further down the spiral.
Now, with another show, I'd just assume it was a randomly picked song about regret and better times, but this is Gilligan/Gould. I think they picked it for a reason, and knew that the audience would recognize this song and know what it meant.
Something I've loved about these Gilligan things from the beginning (including X-Files for that matter) was he never insults your intelligence or assumes you're stupid, as so much media currently does.
If something's in there, it's there for a reason, and if you pay attention, it pays off.
"They've broken bad" and "they've reached the point of no return" are not equivalent statements, either. Break bad simply means to go from being a law-abiding citizen to a criminal; it does not mean that the person has become irredeemable and passed the point of no return.
Mike: I didn't say you're a bad guy, I said that you're a criminal.
Price: What's the difference?
Mike: I've known good criminals and bad cops, bad priests, honorable thieves. You can be on one side of the law or the other, but if you make a deal with somebody, you keep your word.
I solidly disagree that either Kim or Saul actually broke bad. They might both be on the way (with Saul much further along) but they have yet to reach the point of no return.
Mike in Breaking Bad basically is an assassin. He goes into buildings and wipes out entire hitmen teams by himself. He is a vicious killer who essentially kills and murders his way out of problems repeatedly. Most people who started watching Better Call Saul assumed that he would slowly morph into this person and we would see him 'break bad'. Yet before he even arrives to ABQ he has already killed two corrupt cops to avenge his son and gone on the run as almost a vigilante. And then immediately begins connecting with the underworld yet again. Because he himself was a corrupt cop who had been bad for decades.
Saul is the same way. We find out in BCS that he was a criminal before he even had his law degree. Slippin' Jimmy is a scam artist and career criminal. He basically never goes more than a few months without scamming people or committing crimes in BCS. The skateboarders, harassing Howard, spilling coffee on that cop. He never goes more than a week without doing something that is usually way out of bounds for a lawyer. Even giving the Beanie Babies is highly irregular for a lawyer. Saul is already broken bad completely. His client 'Jorge' he knows murdered people and is a cartel head. Saul/McGill knows he is helping murderers go free. And so does Kim. They already are bad. Are you saying that both Saul and Kim knowing that Lalo is a murderer and drug kingpin, and helping him go free, was not 'bad'? They let a murderer escape justice to go commit more murders for his insane violent cartel. They already broke bad. It is over. Now we just see how much crime they get away with before being caught or killed.
Walt was a straight laced boring suburban teacher whose only crime was mocking handicapped children in school so God cursed him with a crippled son. And Walt snaps, due to cancer and his self esteem, and within a year or two has committed murders and killings and become head of a meth empire. That was a crazy transformation. The high school teacher into Scarface is breaking bad. Slippin' Jimmy into Saul Goodman is just more crime. Corrupt cop Mike into cartel security Mike is just more crime.
I could see an argument for Kim going bad because in the first few seasons she is not really a criminal. But the last season or two she is clearly a sociopath and deranged. Scamming her clients and tellies lies to their faces. Helping Lalo. And now going after Howard out of purely selfish reasons. The only questions are really. Will Kim die? Will Kim cause Howard to die? Is Kim conning Jimmy for his Sandpiper money?
Kim's subplot last season was helping an old guy keep his home. She also yelled at Jimmy about not wanting to lie to her clients, and of course she quit her well paying job to help regular people (which she really seems to love).
I really don't think she's nearly as bad a person as people seem to think she is in this thread. I'd say Kim's self-destructive and has taken on Jimmy's hatred of authority and those who look down on others.
Kim's subplot last season was helping an old guy keep his home. She also yelled at Jimmy about not wanting to lie to her clients, and of course she quit her well paying job to help regular people (which she really seems to love).
I really don't think she's nearly as bad a person as people seem to think she is in this thread. I'd say Kim's self-destructive and has taken on Jimmy's hatred of authority and those who look down on others.
Kim did not care about Acker. She just wanted to screw over Mesa Verde to make herself feel better. She even complains to Jimmy that she got made the sucker because her motivation was to make Kevin the sucker. Her 'win condition' was to mess with Kevin and instead Jimmy messes with her and Kevin together. Making her equally as much a sucker as Kevin. Her entire goal there was to make herself feel superior to Kevin. Hence her also switching the documents illegally behind the back of Kevin. It was always about her having fun.
Acker basically calls her out on what she is. A spoiled brat adult lawyer who gives to charity once a year to absolve her of her other 364 days of sin. Within days of her quitting Mesa Verde she is helping Lalo Salamanca rejoin his highly violent drug cartel knowingly. And basically acting as Saul Goodman's accomplice and planning their next move against Howard. Kim is not a good person. She is a loser. Just like Jesse who was a drug manufacturer and killer but the fans are blind to him as well. Most fans cried like sissies when Jesse got away and moved to Alaska even though he deserves death and jail as much as basically anyone else on the show. The fans of BCS are starting to do the same with Kim.
Kim goes from cutthroat lawyer to scam artist. Then to ruthless almost insane lawyer by getting involved in cartel business. First few seasons she is a lawyer willing to do just about anything to advance her career in terms of business. Working with banks and mega firms to chase a partnership like every other robot lawyer. Grinding in the basement rather than just quit. She literally works herself into a car accident to drive home the point of how work obsessed she is. Obsessive personality even. She has no hobbies or anything. No family at all.
Once she gets a taste of Slippin' Jimmy she becomes even worse. Wanting to lead scams with Jimmy. Basically helping Jimmy set up Chuck to fail in court publicly and cost him his career and sanity. And occasionally Kim looks like she regrets 'slipping' herself. She does not like it when Jimmy says he could con a guy at the other restaurant table out of all of his money. She cries when Jimmy reads the letter from Chuck. She steps back when Jimmy does his finger guns and laughs at the suckers who believed his letter reading from Chuck. But eventually she does more scams. And does the finger guns herself.
One thing that I hope that the writers do is have her die or leave Jimmy without the Sandpiper money. His house in the opening of season six was rather large. Sandpiper money large maybe? Which would indicate that Kim did not get any of that money. I hope that they can explain where his money came from because between his house, his car, his office, and his lifestyle, he did not seem to have the clients in BB other than Walt or Mike to possibly cover any of it. Seems like almost a retcon to have him live like that unless it was indeed the Sandpiper cash.
A few days ago I turned on my TV and, while waiting for the built-in applications to be available, it showed a few seconds of a network late night show. There was an actor on that show, and they dropped a huge spoiler. I guess it would have come out anyway, but I was still a little annoyed. Maybe it wasn't a real spoiler, maybe it was the lead-in to a bit. Yeah, that was it, it was a bit.
I think accomplice undersells the influence she has in their relationship. She's in charge. She's the driving force behind the anti-Howard crusade, she talked Jimmy into doing it, and she sits back and supervises while Jimmy's out there doing overt acts to further the conspiracy. She guilted Jimmy into marrying her so even if he's caught, he can't testify against her. And she gets half of anything he acquires during the marriage, including the Sandpiper settlement money she's chasing now.
Jimmy didn't make Kim go bad, she was always bad. That was obvious as far back as Squat Cobbler, when she was giggling with Jimmy over his lies to the police. She was okay with "a little rule-breaking" as long as it had nothing to do with work. She only became indignant when she found out he made a video tape, a tangible piece of evidence that could have affected Jimmy's employment. She was always inclined a bit toward evil, but the guardrails built by her profession kept her in line. Now she's driving offroad and her lack of a moral compass is that much clearer. It's possible she would not have evolved in this direction without Jimmy, but the character flaw has been there all along.
