Better Call Saul

I could understand getting burned out by a hard economic situation and constant tard wrangling, but in the end Skyler just felt like a toxic person who never supported a fucking dying cancer patient she married to
It's also hard to support someone who distanced himself and rejected the support that was offered. He rejected medical support from Gretchen and Elliot, financial support from Hank and Marie, emotional support from his wife.
Not to mention that some of her actions went beyond what an sympathetic person would reasonably do, such as cheating on her husband as a fuck you.
An affair is a betrayal of trust. Making meth and getting involved with violent scum is likewise a betrayal of trust.
Plus his initial reason for entering the drug trade was having Skyler and their son have a chance at a decent living, which is pretty selfless.
lol@ Walt being selfless. He did it for him. He did it because he liked it. That is his own self admission.
Why do you think Walt deserved redemption? Do you think he is fundamentally a good person in a way Jimmy isn't?
I don't think he *deserved* redemption. Redemption is not something that is granted. Redemptive acts are something one does regardless of anyone bearing witness to it and validating it. I felt that for all his faults and flaws and hubris and ego, that he had a conscience under it all.

I don't think Fucking Walt is fundamentally good whereas Jimmy is not. I think Fucking Walt perhaps had the capacity for it whereas Jimmy does not? They have two very different fundamental natures. However, I am totally open to Jimmy redeeming himself. I'm just at a loss as to how he could possibly do it. His resentments and anger have always overpowered what little conscience he had and swallowed it whole.
 
I think Walt is the story of someone who was always hollow inside and Jimmy is the story of someone who lost his humanity over time, to the extent that he arrives at being hollow inside. What I find so fascinating about Jimmy's journey is it all hinges on Chuck's rejection of him.
 
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Skyler never plotted to methodically ruin an innocent man's life for shits and giggles and ultimately got him murdered for it, but sure, Kim good Skyler bad. Food good, fire bad.
Are you watching the same shows we are? Skyler literally sends goons to harass Ted and he is in fear of them to the point where he nearly kills himself out of pure panic. She sends the same goons to steal a business from the car wash owner and cons him out of a legitimate business. Ted is threatened by her in the hospital and told to keep his mouth shut and is ruined for life and might as well be dead. She steals the car wash business....to launder drug cartel money. She smokes when pregnant with her daughter. She is a piece of shit. Skyler is not a morally ambiguous character. She even accepts Walt's drug money through Gretchen and Elliot in the end. She is selfish and evil.

Kim pulled a few innocent scams at first. Then got involved with Lalo. Then involved with Mike and Gus. And her involvement with Mike and Gus was a consequence of her meeting with Lalo. She just harassed Howard over his treatment of her as a lawyer and over the Sandpiper money but never sent people to threaten the money out of him or harm him. And Skyler loses the car wash money because the Feds take it from her. Kim refuses to accept the Sandpiper money because she feels sick to her stomach about Howard and Chuck and HHM. Kim shows remorse and puts her money where her mouth is. Skyler meets with Walt and gladly accepts more of his drug money knowing it will be laundered through Gray Matter Technologies.

Skyler never methodically plotted anything because she is a stupid housewife incapable of making long term decisions in a criminal enterprise. Kim was trained as a lawyer, was a scam artist as a child, had her mother encourage her scamming, and had a husband who brought her into the worst of things. Kim was a dangerous person and was willing to go deeper into the cartel life than Skyler ever was. It takes Kim a while to realize how deep into a gross lifestyle is and she cuts off everyone from her life like she did with her mother once. But you cannot excuse Skyler because she was not as methodical as Kim. Skyler is a housewife and former bookkeeper. Kim is like a seasoned thief and criminal from her childhood. Of course Skyler gets in way over her head when she works with Walt. Kim was on the opposite end where she encouraged Jimmy to keep the scams going. But in the end Kim regrets it all clearly. Skyler was just wants more drug money from Walt in the end.
 
Are you watching the same shows we are? Skyler literally sends goons to harass Ted and he is in fear of them to the point where he nearly kills himself out of pure panic.
Ted tried to extort her after she saved his ass from the I R Fucking ESS. Poor Ted! Fuck Ted,

Ted fucked around and found out.
She sends the same goons to steal a business from the car wash owner and cons him out of a legitimate business
Fuck Bogdan and his eyebrows. Poor Bogdan!
Poor precious Kim! She had nothing to do with an innocent man's murder! And if she did, he deserved it for being a meanie! *wankwankwank*
eta and another thing:

Skyler never methodically plotted anything because she is a stupid housewife incapable of making long term decisions in a criminal enterprise.
Orly? She plotted the carwash acquisition and the scheme to get Ted to knock it off and calm the fuck down. Both of those plots where pretty methodical, effective, and brilliantly devised.

Man, the Walt Bros and Skyler Haters are fucking beyond.
 
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It's also hard to support someone who distanced himself and rejected the support that was offered. He rejected medical support from Gretchen and Elliot, financial support from Hank and Marie, emotional support from his wife.
For him getting support from Gretchen and Elliot is tantamount to whoring himself out. I don't remember Hank and Marie offering support, but unless Hank is from a loaded family, they could do very little. And like I said, Skyler gives the impression of being hard to talk to.
An affair is a betrayal of trust. Making meth and getting involved with violent scum is likewise a betrayal of trust.
It's not comparable in multiple levels ranging from religious to social. There is a reason calling someone a cuck is several times worse than calling him a criminal.
lol@ Walt being selfless. He did it for him. He did it because he liked it. That is his own self admission.
Not at the start. And until the last season I don't think he even had a way of getting out that didn't end with a shotgun to the back of the head.
 
For him getting support from Gretchen and Elliot is tantamount to whoring himself out. I don't remember Hank and Marie offering support, but unless Hank is from a loaded family, they could do very little. And like I said, Skyler gives the impression of being hard to talk to.
I think it was more his toxic pride and resentfulness that wouldn't allow him to take their help. Hank and Marie offered to pay for some special treatments, which he declined, because again, his pride and resentful nature.
It's not comparable in multiple levels ranging from religious to social. There is a reason calling someone a cuck is several times worse than calling him a criminal.
I don't disagree Sky was probably difficult to talk to, but Walt wasn't exactly the emotive type. Sky is more the Talking Pillow squishy type, and no one needs that shit.

re: the affair - It's just a personal opinion that no one is obligated to uphold vows once one party has broken them.
 
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Forgot to insert the quote, whoops. Replying to @Punchoboe :



Skyler vs. Walt was originally a zero-sum game for the story -- if she'd persuaded him for most of the show's run, it would've suddenly ended with "and then Walt sat at home and waited to die." Boring, unless you're a big Arthur Miller fan I guess.

Kim vs. Jimmy was a tug of war between two plots that were both appealing and I would've been down to watch either, so I was entertained no matter who was driving the action.
Thats a good point. You were never rooting for Walt to be a good person, you were for Jimmy
 
Why must she be an angel? Because she's a woman? Most of the major characters in this series are ethically challenged. Why should she be different? Why must female characters always be good? That's boring.
Right! But because she wasn't, some people like our colleague above proclaim her a "piece of shit" and "evil." I don't really hear them talk about male characters that way.

Hector Salamanca was an evil piece of shit. He and Lalo are the only major characters in this universe I would define as such. Weird how language like that is reserved for a female character who wasn't perfect.
 
Right! But because she wasn't, some people like our colleague above proclaim her a "piece of shit" and "evil." I don't really hear them talk about male characters that way.

Hector Salamanca was an evil piece of shit. He and Lalo are the only major characters in this universe I would define as such. Weird how language like that is reserved for a female character who wasn't perfect.
Eh, I think plenty of people in BB and BCS are very deserving of being called evil. Not all to the same extent, but I don't accept that Walt is anything other than evil.

He has noble qualities, but he is a sick bastard who will hurt and kill pretty much anyone who isn't his family, and even then, he still does plenty to harm all of them and it was all pretty much just to serve his own ego.

As for the Skyler debate, I don't think she's a good person, but compared to all the criminals in the series, she comes across looking saintly. Kim is definitely the shittier person, but I'll argue she's a much better written and acted character, who while doing much worse, is more compelling to watch, though obviously that's all subjective.
 
Right! But because she wasn't, some people like our colleague above proclaim her a "piece of shit" and "evil." I don't really hear them talk about male characters that way.
Literally every male cartel character is known as evil. So no one has to describe them that way. Gus, Mike, Salamancas, Jack, Todd, Nacho, and so on. They are all murderous psychopaths. Insane and demented. No one is arguing about the tortured soul that Gus was. Or how Lalo was just misunderstood. Or the Twins had a rough childhood. Like everyone does with Skyler. No one is debating that they are all pieces of shit because it is so obvious.

Walt becomes a complete monster. Jesse becomes one as well but finally has it beaten out of him by the Nazis. Kim became immoral and had it shocked out of her with Howard's death and HHM's demise. Walt however returns to right his wrongs as best he can by freeing Jesse and killing the Nazis and killing Lydia even. And even giving up Hank's body. Jesse flees ABQ and leaves it all behind and will never return to drugs again.

Skyler accepts Walt's drug money even after Walt murdered multiple people and (accidentally) lured Hank into his death against the Nazis. Skyler willingly uses blood money in the end and becomes yet again an accepting accomplice in all of Walt's crimes. Skyler literally justifies all of Walt's behavior by taking his drug money in the end. If she was morally sound she would have turned down Walt's money like Kim turned down the Sandpiper money.

Hence her being a loser. And Kim likely trying to restore her inner peace.
 
Skyler literally justifies all of Walt's behavior by taking his drug money in the end. If she was morally sound she would have turned down Walt's money like Kim turned down the Sandpiper money.
You along with others have spent countless pages justifying Howard's murder (and other malignant shit) by saying Kim and Jimmy are blameless. It's odd you choose to apply a moral sense to Kim when her confession was not one of good conscience and to make amends, but rather to get ahead of Jimmy who was implicitly threatening her. Kim ruined a man for fun. Moral people don't do that. Kim is a bad person and she's not going to fuck you.

We have no idea if Skyler got that money Walt left with the Schwartzes. When last we saw her, she was working some shit job and living in a shit apartment. I hope she did get it and I hope both her kids got to go to college on it. But since she's an evil piece of shit, I'm sure she spent it all on slippers made of kitten skins she uses to stomp the life out of baby pandas as she laughs maniacally while sipping the blood of puppies from a solid gold chalice.

Lord, son.
 
You along with others have spent countless pages justifying Howard's murder (and other malignant shit) by saying Kim and Jimmy are blameless. It's odd you choose to apply a moral sense to Kim when her confession was not one of good conscience and to make amends, but rather to get ahead of Jimmy who was implicitly threatening her. Kim ruined a man for fun. Moral people don't do that. Kim is a bad person and she's not going to fuck you.
Are you mentally ill? No one said Kim is not partially to blame for Howard's murder. You are making up strawmen and are deeply disturbed by these imagined arguments that no one is making. You are arguing with yourself and no one else in this thread.

Lalo pulled the trigger. He takes pretty much ALL of the blame. Lalo killed Howard for no reason other than to shock Jimmy and Kim. Lalo murders others because he is a murdering maniac. His body count by the end of the show is formidable.

Kim is to blame for ruining Howard's reputation, destroying HHM, and framing his suicide. Jimmy is the one who made Lalo his client and brought Lalo into his home before. Kim is told by a cartel hired murderer, Mike, to keep Lalo's falsely reported death a secret. Jimmy might have told Kim that Mike is a cop killer and highly dangerous at some point in their relationship. You think Kim should have told Jimmy about Lalo when she is already paranoid about people following her? She is just a lawyer and not a cartel hitter. She panicked because she is not equipped for these kind of events. Kim sees Jimmy's shot up coffee mug and knows that they are in a bad place.

Kim ruined Howard not for fun. It was because he messed with her and Jimmy's lives with Chuck. So she messes with him in revenge. And helped take down Chuck as well for revenge. They are all pieces of shit in the end. But Howard apologizes for it all and admits it all to Jimmy. Howard goes to therapy and wants to help Jimmy. Kim does not care and wants major revenge because of how Howard and Chuck treated her. Howard tries to turn his life around and offers Jimmy a job. Jimmy refuses and he and Kim plot to destroy Howard. They destroy HHM but Kim clearly regrets it. To the point where she moves away from ABQ, gives up law, and gives up the Sandpiper money.

But they never plotted to murder Howard.

They are nearly blameless. Howard lives without Lalo showing up. End of story. Sure Kim could have told Jimmy or the police. But Lalo is shown to be willing to kill random strangers and was unstable. Lalo just shows up at the PERFECT moment when Howard is there. If Howard leaves one minute before he lives. If Howard hits a few more green lights instead of reds he lives.

Kim is immoral. But so were Chuck and Howard. Chuck lied to Jimmy's face his entire life. Howard lied to both of them for their entire careers. Did Chuck deserve to go out the way he did? No. Did Howard deserve the harassment and murder? No. But things were always escalating between Jimmy and Kim and Chuck and Howard. And without a ceasefire someone was going to get hurt really badly. They were all negative losers to each other. Howard was turning his life around. Kim wants to turn hers around and seems willing to sacrifice Jimmy to get it.
We have no idea if Skyler got that money Walt left with the Schwartzes. When last we saw her, she was working some shit job and living in a shit apartment. I hope she did get it and I hope both her kids got to go to college on it.
Of course she got the money. Hello? She is an expert at laundering money and washing money. She gets the money from Gretchen and Elliott and knows exactly how to make it look like Gray Matter money. You forget that she was a criminal accountant and money launderer on her own without Walt? We literally see her able to wash money and make drug money look legit multiple times on the show. There is no question she takes the money.
But since she's an evil piece of shit, I'm sure she spent it all on slippers made of kitten skins she uses to stomp the life out of baby pandas as she laughs maniacally while sipping the blood of puppies from a solid gold chalice.
Again you seem very angry at yourself because no one has made an argument that Skyler drinks puppy blood. The only one saying that is you. Calm down and argue the points that people are actually making.
 
Kim ruined Howard not for fun. It was because he messed with her and Jimmy's lives with Chuck. So she messes with him in revenge.
"I didn't tell you because you would have wanted to stop [ruining Howard] and I was having too much fun." - Kim Wexler
Of course she got the money. Hello? She is an expert at laundering money and washing money. She gets the money from Gretchen and Elliott and knows exactly how to make it look like Gray Matter money
Hello? Last we spoke you said she was just a stupid housewife who couldn't plot to pop a pimple.
There is no question she takes the money.
Good. I can smell your nuts roasting about it from here. Roasting over a completely fictional woman getting her money. You spend that money, imaginary lady! You go girl!

However this story ends the one thing that is absolutely certain is, you will be seething and reeing about it. There will be screeds about caping and fanboys, Vince Gilligan's dick and the sucking thereof by caping fanboys; something about reddit, more something about reddit, reddit reddit reddit, hilariously imperious dismissals of anyone who enjoys it as capesucking dickboys as you type between the rage tears. And after all that, Kim's still not going to fuck you.

It's gonna be awesome.

Have you decided which show you will be stupid and angry about next when this one ends?
 
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